Due to popular demand... The Ivanko Barbell crew!

[Synthetickiller]

Picked this up for a possible trade. Looking for 70's York Bumpers (Blue and Yellow), Waxed 40# Jackson Globes, or any cool vintage York stuff. I also have an old pair of Ivanko Olympic spin collars.

You just picked up those collars?! I'm jelly. I'd love that set, but I have nothing to trade!

[SkinnySquats]

My new OBS-20kg is On. The. Way.

This is hilariously mesmerizing.

[keyboardworkout]

Poor guy was trying to score some used revos on craigslist.

[justin76]

EDIT: I say below they aren't Ivankos based mostly on the catalog info. Since they appear to be older plates and based on the Taiwanese manufacturer picture I don't think I can say they aren't based on the catalog alone.

I ended up buying some of the thin script "ivankos" I had posted about above. I've went back a forth a couple times on whether they are ivankos or not and now I am going to say they aren't IMO unless some more info comes out. Especially after comparing djslik916's unbranded plates several posts up to the catalog that is often used to say the thin scripts are ivankos. They seem to resemble the plates drawn in the below catalog much more than the thin scripts I have as far as letter positioning goes.



I have never used Ivanko O's so I am not sure if it is normal but the outside (back) diameter of all the plates except for the 100's is about a sixteenth wider than the inside (front) diameter on the thin scripts. This results in a sloped edge that I wouldn't think would be optimal.
I took some measurements with a tape measure and caliper. I also weighed a few plates. The outside diameters of the 45's and 25's were a sixteenth smaller than listed in the catalog, while the 100's and 35's matched the catalog. I guess with enough use there would be some wear, but I wouldn't think it would result in a sixteenth difference. The inner hole was a 2 1/16th on the 45's and 35's but measured 2 1/32nd on the 25's and 100's. All the weights that I weighed were within +or- 1% of listed weight except for 1 plate that was right under 2% heavy (using a bathroom scale). The depth of the plates matched the catalog on the 35's and 100's, was 1/16th off on the 45's, and 1/8th off on the 25's.

I am still going to restore them even though I don't think they are ivankos because they seem to be fairly accurate plates and I like the deep dish look. I hope some more info does come out later that says they are ivankos though. I sandblasted and painted one tonight as a test run to see what color I wanted them to be.

Sandblasted - You can see a significant casting mark near the center.


Painted


Finished - You can see what they looked like before with the stack on the floor in this pic

[SkinnySquats]

Nice sandblast. We've hashed this over and over, it's getting tiring.. Somewhere in this thread, Rockettrucker posted a pic and website link to the Taiwanese manufacturer of Ivanko plates. They look EXACTLY like the thin scripts. Now, could other brands & sporting good store have sold these generic plates? YES. (See Jubinville)

At least 3-4 times, I have either seen or known people that have picked up thin script and fat script unbranded in the same lot. Coincidence? No. You or anyone else can call them whatever you want, I call them early unbranded Ivanko thin scripts.

[dumb.bell]

I have never used Ivanko O's so I am not sure if it is normal but the outside (back) diameter of all the plates except for the 100's is about a sixteenth wider than the inside (front) diameter on the thin scripts. This results in a sloped edge that I wouldn't think would be optimal.

My unbranded Ivanko plates have the same edge profile with the outer being larger than the inner.

[ubernoob]

My new OBS-20kg is On. The. Way.

You are going to love this bar. I recently received mine and it's my favorite by far. The knurling is not aggressive at all. Here are some teaser pictures.

[SkinnySquats]

My unbranded Ivanko plates have the same edge profile with the outer being larger than the inner.

Most old plates are cast this way before machining became the norm. It is sloped for "drafting", so that the pattern will pull out of the mold without damaging the mold.

[dumb.bell]

Most old plates are cast this way before machining became the norm. It is sloped for "drafting", so that the pattern will pull out of the mold without damaging the mold.

Interesting!

[SkinnySquats]

Interesting!

A good explanation of sand cast drafting: http://www.afsinc.org/about/content....2&userID=12674

[justin76]

Nice sandblast. We've hashed this over and over, it's getting tiring.. Somewhere in this thread, Rockettrucker posted a pic and website link to the Taiwanese manufacturer of Ivanko plates. They look EXACTLY like the thin scripts. Now, could other brands & sporting good store have sold these generic plates? YES. (See Jubinville)

At least 3-4 times, I have either seen or known people that have picked up thin script and fat script unbranded in the same lot. Coincidence? No. You or anyone else can call them whatever you want, I call them early unbranded Ivanko thin scripts.

Thanks.
I've looked at all that info and I've just been looking for a reason that they aren't ivankos. My reasoning was based on that catalog alone so if they are earlier plates then I would say there is a better chance they are.

My unbranded Ivanko plates have the same edge profile with the outer being larger than the inner.

Nice, I was hoping someone would say that.

Most old plates are cast this way before machining became the norm. It is sloped for "drafting", so that the pattern will pull out of the mold without damaging the mold.

Makes sense. The 100's do have a flat edge though and were originally bought at a different time than the rest so I assume they could be from a different manufacturer. Some of the plates had initials "etched" into them. I thought it could be a manufacturers mark? I'll look into more as I restore them.

[dumb.bell]

Some of the plates had initials "etched" into them. I thought it could be a manufacturers mark? I'll look into more as I restore them.

I think some of mine have marks too. I'll check them tomorrow and report back.

[SkinnySquats]

Some of the plates had initials "etched" into them. I thought it could be a manufacturers mark? I'll look into more as I restore them.

That could be a pattern stamp to identify the pattern that was used. If there is a flaw in a run of castings, the foundry can trace it back to the exact pattern. Post up a pic.

[djslik916]

So I can confidently say the 25lb plates are unbranded Ivankos as both of them still have the sticker. The script on them are very flat and the font is of similar style to my Ivanko O2B. The 3 spokes are relatively flat and wide. The inside is machined.

[justin76]

The markings are pretty clear except on the 100's. There appears to be one, a J or maybe a C at about 8 o'clock, but I'll be able to tell better when I take it down to bare metal.
Only embedding the 45's. Don't want to get to pic heavy.

25s.jpg
35s.jpg
100s.jpg
45.jpg



Also you can tell in the pics that the center holes aren't exactly centered on the 35's and 45's which both have 2 1/16th inch holes rather than the 2 1/32nd like the 25s and 100s.

[SkinnySquats]

Looks like a pattern stamp. Some vintage plates like York deep dish are also drilled off center & it annoys my OCD brain. Keep in mind back then any drilling/machining was done by humans, nowadays many cast iron parts are fully machine by computers and robots..

[morebarbell]

Ivan said they aren't Ivanko and it became very quiet in the forum. People will believe what they want to believe.

So I can confidently say the 25lb plates are unbranded Ivankos as both of them still have the sticker. The script on them are very flat and the font is of similar style to my Ivanko O2B. The 3 spokes are relatively flat and wide. The inside is machined.

Yes. Those are Ivanko. Ivan has confirmed it. And they have a sticker to prove it... inb4 someone puts an Ivanko sticker on a "skinny script" plate.

[SkinnySquats]

[morebarbell]

I'm scared to comment since i think no one wants to hear anything to the contrary. I may be the only person (other than Ivan) on the forum that doesn't think they're Ivanko. I have not seen any sound evidence that they are Ivanko.

[BloodType3R]

Ivan said they aren't Ivanko and it became very quiet in the forum. People will believe what they want to believe.

What does he know?

[rthawker]

I may be the only person (other than Ivan) on the forum that doesn't think they're Ivanko.

No not the only one.

[SkinnySquats]

I'm scared to comment since i think no one wants to hear anything to the contrary. I may be the only person (other than Ivan) on the forum that doesn't think they're Ivanko. I have not seen any sound evidence that they are Ivanko.

MB, you're welcome to comment on whatever you want, and you often do. Sometimes it feels like whatever my opinion is, you love to take the opposite stance. This is not the first or probably the last time. However, we are just having a circular argument that really get's nowhere.

No sound evidence? So the manufacturer of Ivanko weights has pictures of skinny script plates on their website and that means nothing huh? No offense to Ivan, but does he know the entire history of Ivanko and every single thing that they sold? I don't remember what I had for lunch yesterday, let alone what I was doing in 1977. How old was Ivan in 1977-78? I would trust the word of Tom Lincir over anyone else in the company.

One thing about the ad above that get's passed around: Yes, it's an illustration. But take into account the reputation of Ivanko to get everything right regarding the accuracy of their products. The illustration has every level of minute detail, from weight tolerances to dimensions of the various size plates down to the FRACTION OF AN INCH. Note the illustration itself is also copyrighted. Do you really think Ivanko would overlook the scripting of the plates in the illustration, and allow for the inaccurate depiction of how the plates looks? Highly doubtful.

Ivanko was founded in 1967, but didn't start putting their name on plates until post-1979. What did they sell for 12 years, shake weights? Is it out of the realm of possibility that they sold these skinny script plates, not as their own, but just to sell? Is it possible that Ivanko did not sell these exclusively, but sold more of them than anyone else?

What's funny about this debate is that for all the naysayers, no one has produced anything to the contrary except for Ivan's word, which incidentally I think he actually said something to the effect of: "I don't know about those other ones, but the fat script are definitely ours". (Hardly a denial) So if Ivanko didn't sell/make skinny scripts, who did? You're right, people will believe whatever they want to believe.

[SkinnySquats]

I forgot I got these off the bay.

Dammit, I thought these were Ivanko, but they don't say Ivanko and they don't have a sticker! I better get a refund!

[AttyGuy]

Lol.

[2MoreRepz]

Not that I want in on this friendly argument....but I to think that they are Ivanko's. Is it because I owned them....possibly. The funny thing is, if they aren't Ivanko, you would think that one of the many iron aficionados could place a brand name or manufacturer to them. If they aren't Ivanko then what are they? I have heard people say that Paramount made a 3 spoke plate, but from everything I have seen those say Paramount Olympic Barbell. Either way, I hope you enjoy them Justin. Long live the thin script debate.

Also, the picture half way down this page looks exactly like the original set that I bout a few years ago.

http://www.johnsonfitness.com/content/heritage

[morebarbell]

MB, you're welcome to comment on whatever you want, and you often do. Sometimes it feels like whatever my opinion is, you love to take the opposite stance. This is not the first or probably the last time. However, we are just having a circular argument that really get's nowhere.

I would say that's not the case but you might take that as proving your point. You and I are both interested in iron history. But the way that we both look at the same data seems to be fundamentally different. In my perspective, you are jumping to conclusions about these plates. I don't think there is any sound evidence that they are Ivanko. But it doesn't matter to me if they are or aren't Ivanko. What matters to me is the soundness of either case. With each bit of information, I think it's necessary to carefully consider what it tells us with certainty, what isn't certain and what more information is necessary before a conclusion can be reached. That makes a big difference in whether it is history or story.

I will reply to the "evidence" in a following post.

[Northernmoris]

Follow the yellow brick road?

[AttyGuy]

Might as well ask if Hermann Goerner was truly the strongest man ever, pre-steroids.

[gene19728]

Nothing wrong with a good old healthy debate.

[morebarbell]

We've hashed this over and over, it's getting tiring..

I agree that it's tiring. We both are talking past each other on this issue. Trudging through old posts to find the quotes to demonstrate what I think should already be obvious is not a particularly desirable way to spend time, especially when I think that no one wants to hear it. And since you question Ivan's opinion, I don't expect my opinion to account for much.

Somewhere in this thread, Rockettrucker posted a pic and website link to the Taiwanese manufacturer of Ivanko plates. They look EXACTLY like the thin scripts.

If you look back earlier in the thread, I had previously posted the same photo before Rockettrucker. I mention it because Ivan commented on it and I think it's worth reading Ivan's comments. I'll quote it below but first let's just consider the photo.



The photo on the Johnson Fitness website is 200x105 pixels. The largest weight plate in the photo is 48x38 pixels.



The largest letter in the photo is about 4x3 pixels.



I don't think we can make a conclusion about the thickness of the 4x3 pixel letter on a 48x38 pixel plate in a 200x105 pixel photo. I find it surprising that you think a photo that small is sufficient to see that "They look EXACTLY like the thin scripts". The photo is TINY!

A few days ago, someone asked if these were unbranded Ivanko. I said they weren't. You appeared to agree.

Are these un-branded Ivanko's?? I can never tell... Do they look like they are olympic or standard? I would be getting these shipped to me so I can't go look at them. They look like they can be Olympic but hard to tell from the pics.

But if the photo had been this small, I would not have been able to give an answer.

No sound evidence? So the manufacturer of Ivanko weights has pictures of skinny script plates on their website and that means nothing huh?

Are they really "skinny script plates"??? I'm not sure why you are so confident about the thickness of the letters on the plates in the Johnson Fitness photo. The Johnson Fitness website doesn't show a close up photo of the plates. And Ivan didn't comment on the thickness of the letters. He said that to his knowledge the first product that company made for Ivanko was a collar. So there appears to be some discrepancy in the details.

According to their website, Johnson Health Tech Co LTD's first products were barbells for Ivanko. Ivanko is a few years older, so these might not be Ivankos first barbells.

http://www.johnsonfitness.com/content/heritage

Here's a photo of their first product. It appears to be Ivanko.

To my knowledge, the first product made by that entity was a collar. And that was because we made a 14 ga EZ-Curl bar at that time (an improvement over a 14 ga) that we rebranded and no American foundry could (or would) make the collar we wanted. The US collars we did get were so poor we had to sit there and drill them each out by hand. Not an easy task. We've been working on a little "history" of all this, but that's a nice find!