Misc Firearms Crew LXXX: Land of the Rising Holosun and Larue Trigger Watch Part FAL

[RgrJNC]

Especially under the most anti-gun president in American history.

Ronald Reagan?

[criminal_manne]

I’m at the office today so went to the gun shop on lunch after eating a Giant chicken burrito. I was going to buy the APC9k from them but I forgot my cash in my desk.

When I got back I noticed this though. This is the same price with a brace as theirs without a brace so I’m thinking I should order this maybe?

https://www.rainierarms.com/b-t-apc9...-sb-brace-9mm/

https://tarheelstatefirearms.com/sto...ry&path=17_122

GOAT B&T dealer and get free engraving for form 1.

But cot dam B&T stock is pricey.

https://tarheelstatefirearms.com/sto...product_id=366

[JMath]

What a shame that the pro-2a side can't argue "Yes, braces and stocks are damn near the same thing. But look... there are tons of these out here, and they aren't being used in mass to commit crime. Why would it be any different if it was in fact a stock?" and then get the SBR stuff removed from NFA.

Instead the anti-2a says "Braces and stocks are damn near the same thing. So despite the fact that the barrel length is arbitrary, and despite the fact that there weren't a disproportionate amount of crime committed with them, they too should be banned for no real reason".... and it works.

[Farley1324]

What a shame that the pro-2a side can't argue "Yes, braces and stocks are damn near the same thing. But look... there are tons of these out here, and they aren't being used in mass to commit crime. Why would it be any different if it was in fact a stock?" and then get the SBR stuff removed from NFA.

Instead the anti-2a says "Braces and stocks are damn near the same thing. So despite the fact that the barrel length is arbitrary, and despite the fact that there weren't a disproportionate amount of crime committed with them, they too should be banned for no real reason".... and it works.

Talk to the NRA or whoever it is that says braces should be banned. If that's the case, dump them for FPC/GOA/SAF

But don't confuse my very real understanding of the fact that these are stocks as saying they "should" be banned. We're definitely doomed if we're going to waste our time strawmanning pro-2A folks instead of arguing for why SBR's shouldn't be restricted in the first place.

Remember, ATF's own argument is like two uses of a braced pistol/SBR in a crime, vs, what 8,000 murdered with traditional handguns each year?

This argument writes itself. So make the argument instead of all these asinine claims that they aren't stocks. They are and always have been

[JMath]

Talk to the NRA or whoever it is that says braces should be banned. If that's the case, dump them for FPC/GOA/SAF

I need to checkout FPC and SAF. Already don't deal with the NRA, but have been a member of GOA for a little bit. Even though I hate receiving their mail. I don't try to advertise I am a gun guy at all, but their envelopes certainly aren't discrete. lol.

Just sucks in general that logic can be on our side and we still manage to not win. Ugh.

[rectifryer]

Ronald Reagan?

basically

[criminal_manne]

Braces aren’t stocks. Period. ATF isn’t attempting to blanket ban all braces. Even give an example of an approved one.

I could mold a dildo on my buffer tube and shoulder it, doesn’t make a dildo a stock.

[rectifryer]

Talk to the NRA or whoever it is that says braces should be banned. If that's the case, dump them for FPC/GOA/SAF

But don't confuse my very real understanding of the fact that these are stocks as saying they "should" be banned. We're definitely doomed if we're going to waste our time strawmanning pro-2A folks instead of arguing for why SBR's shouldn't be restricted in the first place.

Remember, ATF's own argument is like two uses of a braced pistol/SBR in a crime, vs, what 8,000 murdered with traditional handguns each year?

This argument writes itself. So make the argument instead of all these asinine claims that they aren't stocks. They are and always have been

lets face it

by dragging the argument down into a semantic battle with an alphabet agency that is supra-judicial we have already lost a major battle.

It matters not whether its a stock or not. No one stops themselves from a mass shooting because they have an illegal weapon configuration. The debate is a red herring, and throwing new "guidance" out there only serves to turn people into criminals by written word rather than action.

The ATF could call a buffer tube a stock and there's nothing you or I could do. Further more, if I shoulder a buffer tube, is it a stock?

Their argument is how the device is used, rather than its fitness for said use. That's a dangerous ass precedent and not a point I see elucidated in gun enthusiast circles.

I can come up with a million ways to draw the line, and so can the ATF, but they don't. They need guidance to be ambiguous, open, malleable to their will.


edit: I'm still trying to figure out how close quarters accessories supposedly help people murder dozens in open areas. Maybe we should be happy the ATF is arbitrarily pursuing sbrs instead of full capability guns lmao

[keyboardworkout]

I could mold a dildo on my buffer tube and shoulder it, doesn’t make a dildo a stock.

But it might be a bayonet.

[RgrJNC]

100% srs I have a never fired my AR pistol with a brace. Since getting the brace, I’ve only been to the range once and I ended up putting that pistols upper on my SBR lower ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[benz5521]

https://tarheelstatefirearms.com/sto...ry&path=17_122

GOAT B&T dealer and get free engraving for form 1.

But cot dam B&T stock is pricey.

https://tarheelstatefirearms.com/sto...product_id=366

They have a lot in stock and yea, glad they have the $600 stock in stock. Haven’t been able to find 1 of those.

[Ikeman83]

Braces are not stocks, even if many of them are built to be not-awful when used as a stock.


I hope that FPC is smart enough to use this as a common use argument against SBRs in the NFA.

[gbullock32]

Braces are not stocks, even if many of them are built to be not-awful when used as a stock.


I hope that FPC is smart enough to use this as a common use argument against SBRs in the NFA.

Not just common use but in wide circulation, so many have them that to ban them would make a massive amount of people felons due to their decision; pretty much forcing many to either toss the brace or buy a $200 stamp.

[Farley1324]

Not just common use but in wide circulation, so many have them that to ban them would make a massive amount of people felons due to their decision; pretty much forcing many to either toss the brace or buy a $200 stamp.

Unless in a state that doesn't even allow SBR in which case it seems the only legally safe option is to toss the brace and sell the upper or change the barrel

[benz5521]

My fingerprint cards showed up today so probably going to form 1 the MPX tonight. Can’t find a folding stock in stock anywhere though so that sucks.

[Meatie]

Sig Suh-hower back at it again.



Battleworn finish. just lol. ****ing high off their own sour creems again

[criminal_manne]

Sig Suh-hower back at it again.



Battleworn finish. just lol. ****ing high off their own sour creems again

They should design a trigger that isn’t 4 stages.

[28maynard]

Not just common use but in wide circulation, so many have them that to ban them would make a massive amount of people felons due to their decision; pretty much forcing many to either toss the brace or buy a $200 stamp.

“We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.”

Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

[Ikeman83]

Just looked at a TFM. **** my wallet...

[keyboardworkout]

I could really care less about federal gun laws. However, I will comply with my state's gun laws.

Our state statutes say that no rifle can have a barrel length of less than 16" unless registered in the nfa.

How will my state interpret braces if the feds say they are a no go?

[benz5521]

They should design a trigger that isn’t 4 stages.

Glock Gen 5s have been really bad with that. Every one I’ve had has turned in to a 3 stage trigger. Annoying.

[benz5521]

You know Holosun is dominating the game when you are seeing them on Nighthawks and Wilson’s left and right.

[Farley1324]

Nighthawk? Peasants just tryin' to save a couple Franklins

lol



Okay so I had to hit gunbroker to see just how much (on the high end) those were going for. Not as bad as I expected. But, still...whew

[benz5521]

Nighthawk? Peasants just tryin' to save a couple Franklins

lol



Okay so I had to hit gunbroker to see just how much (on the high end) those were going for. Not as bad as I expected. But, still...whew

Pride of Arkansas. All the best guns made here. Wilson and nighthawk. Nighthawk was started by some Wilson gunsmiths that got mad at him and left or something. My dealer is stacked with Nighthawks. They have the Korth revolvers from them too. Those things are gnarly.

[BeanGainClovis]

And per the law a brace is not a stock.

Lord I just looked up the brace thing and it looks goofy as hell. I dub these LBGs or "loophole bastard guns".

I've seen my fair share of dangerous DIY 80s, gatcranks, binaries, and all sorts of sick bastard guns based on cheeky loopholes.

You can save a lot of time, money, paranoia, and mental anguish just by getting a stamp, the right license, or just doing the paperwork. There's a way, but the will to learn is not always there.

It's not that expensive or difficult to just do things the clean way, and it won't ruin your life either.

[criminal_manne]

Lord I just looked up the brace thing and it looks goofy as hell. I dub these LBGs or "loophole bastard guns".

I've seen my fair share of dangerous DIY 80s, gatcranks, binaries, and all sorts of sick bastard guns based on cheeky loopholes.

You can save a lot of time, money, paranoia, and mental anguish just by getting a stamp, the right license, or just doing the paperwork. There's a way, but the will to learn is not always there.

It's not that expensive or difficult to just do things the clean way, and it won't ruin your life either.

It’s the principle of the matter.

Yes, a Form 1 is easy and doesn’t take that long but… fuk the ATF can’t do it. No mental anguish or paranoia here. If the “guidance” goes through as written idk maybe I’ll just file my form 1 and move on.

One reason I don’t want to is because my range is the border of another state, so pistol configuration has a benefit if I want to go down the road to get gas or lunch I don’t need extra paperwork.

[PapaBurgandy]

Morning, MFC.

[RgrJNC]

So Missouri passed a law banning the enforcement of federal gun laws past, present, and future. Move there with your braced pistols lol

[criminal_manne]

So Missouri passed a law banning the enforcement of federal gun laws past, present, and future. Move there with your braced pistols lol

NFA violations are rarely prosecuted and never as a stand-alone charge. Do what you want with that information.

Even they guy in Kansas they was selling and marketing suppressors only got probation.

The real danger is snitch Fudd *******s. Srs.

I for one, am a law abiding citizen and would even own icky weapons of war, don’t need AR’s to take a deer. Only criminals own those things!

[Farley1324]

NFA violations are rarely prosecuted and never as a stand-alone charge. Do what you want with that information.

Even they guy in Kansas they was selling and marketing suppressors only got probation.

I for one, am a law abiding citizen and would even own icky weapons of war, don’t need AR’s to take a deer. Only criminals own those things!

Probation without even being prosecuted? Damn they don't even let you see court just hit you with the sentencing without passing go? What a time to be alive