just lol @ brainwashed retards against raising the minimum wage

[cookiefiend]

you are talking in circles

we agree they have NO INCENTIVE to do it, but it would be the FAIR thing to do

and corporations (while they do often have advantages when it comes to tax avoidance and government subsidies) are no different in many respects to small businesses

small businesses may have less profit, but they have 1)less people to share that profit amongst and 2)less employees to compensate

As are you.
Whether it would be the fair thing to do is irrelevant (and again probably impossible in the case of a lot of small businesses, so there's a lot of people now having no income), you have agreed that you know as well as I do that that's not going to happen. Which means you know as well as I do that the price of everything will go up to cover everyones tripling of their wages (the OP is just talking about minimum wage workers,but I may as well respond to you asserting that the wages of everyone except ceos should nearly triple), so we will all be in the exact same place.

[Armord]

I have no sympathy for people who cry about minimum wage. It should stay the way it is. I worked a minimum wage job until i was 23, I worked my ass off for peanuts. I didnt go out and finance a BMW so i can pretend to be ballin. I didnt eat out every day at fancy restaurants, I didnt have a kid while doing it, I didnt dig myself into a debt hole.

I lived pretty ****ing good. I was able to put away $600-$800 away a month, Which is probably more than a decent percentage of people put away.

Which brings me to my point, The wages is not the problem, Its peoples spending habits and stupid choices they make. That is the problem.

Calling either bullsht or you lived with mommy and daddy.

Even if minimum wage was $8 an hour and you worked 40 hours per week that is $16,640 per year or $1,386 per month. Gross. Figure out what that would be after taxes.

So again either bullsht or lived with mommy and daddy and didn't pay rent.

I'm not even going to argue over this.

I will just keep watching all the fast food joints replace these protestors jobs with machines. Which i see pictures of on ******** every week.

They burger flipping machines, they got self checkout machines, and now Target has machines that check inventory.

The time they take too protest. They could have been in school, learning how to maintenance the same machines that will replace their Mcburger job.

They were going to replace workers with robots anyways. Most fields that can do it end up doing it sooner or later. It has nothing to do with what minimum wage could potentially be but what is more cost effective in the long run. Robots are the smart longer term choice even if the minimum wage was $5.

[JB05]

yeah man, I never suggested buying everything organic.

you made that up.


literal definition of straw man.

Ok, so tell me what you're proposing. I'm not here to make your argument for you. Tougher USDA standards?

[Schism45]

Amazes me people still haven't grasped the definition of cuck yet.

1. Stocks, loans, real estate...you've truly listed the source of nearly every economic hardship the US has faced in the last ~10 years. The ways these systems are used now do nothing but create a debt ridden economy that can barely hold itself together. You also delude yourself into thinking that any money put into the above means aids the economy in any meaningful way. Simply perpetuating the cycle. All avenues for the depletion of wealth from the American economy and people into a few. As I said, wealth is accumulated at the top, and the notion of trickle down economics is a fallacy.

I am always amazed at extreme socialists, heavily in favour of tremendous government intervention in the economy, who argue that they are against a few holding the wealth while the masses having nothing.

Do they not realize that the end goal and inevitable outcome of their philosophy is a 2 class system, where the upper class quite literally holds 100% of the power?

The middle class is being hacked away at both ends; don't delude yourself otherwise. The ceiling is being pushed further and further down, while bits are being chomped at from the bottom.

I agree, but I attribute this to an unholy relationship between big business and the government that squelches competition, as well as the increase in government regulation, spending and taxes.

Again, we come back to this notion of trickle down economics that is still so fuking pervasive, because everyone thinks that when it's their time to strike it rich and live the American dream, they want to keep all of what they have now. The promise of riches tends to cloud people's minds, and makes them subservient to the thoughts of "If and when", as opposed to the "now". Add to this the disparity between wages (not just minimum wages) and the increased cost of living, and that's why the middle class is disappearing.

People get lost in the minutia of trickle down economic debates, so let's pull back and look at a critical fact from human history. Capitalism is the only economic system that has ever produced a middle class.

Economic mobility is the defining feature of a capitalist society and it requires freedom from unnecessary government pressure and constraint to exist.

I don't think people are convinced they're all going to be rich, I think that most people who finish school and have worked a few years just want to be comfortably middle class and left alone.

This entire argument is one for the middle class as well as the lower class. You'd be foolish to think the problems aren't rooted in the same cause.

If you tripled minimum wage, you would in one fell swoop wipe out the middle class and create a 2 class system.

[Lightsout13]

Calling either bullsht or you lived with mommy and daddy.

Even if minimum wage was $8 an hour and you worked 40 hours per week that is $16,640 per year or $1,386 per month. Gross. Figure out what that would be after taxes.

So again either bullsht or lived with mommy and daddy and didn't pay rent.

This

There's a reason chit like welfare exists. Cause living at such low wages without leeching off others is impossible. Minimum wage wasn't designed to be lived on but the fact of the matter is more people are being limited to those low wage jobs due to a variety of factors such the hiring of immigrants, outsourcing, trying to maximize profits, etc. Income inequality is massive now and it's because many wages aren't adjusted to fit according to the state of the economy anymore. Many people haven't seen a wage increase in over 15 years now.

[WSG1]

Calling either bullsht or you lived with mommy and daddy.

Even if minimum wage was $8 an hour and you worked 40 hours per week that is $16,640 per year or $1,386 per month. Gross. Figure out what that would be after taxes.

So again either bullsht or lived with mommy and daddy and didn't pay rent.

I was making about $800-900 after taxes every 2 weeks. Rented a master bedroom in a house for $500 a month, Drove a paid off car, Insurance paid for the year, $35 phone bill. It was very easy to save money.

[Lightsout13]

I was making about $800-900 after taxes every 2 weeks. Rented a master bedroom in a house for $500 a month, Drove a paid off car, Insurance paid for the year, $35 phone bill. It was very easy to save money.

It's easy to save when you don't have car payments and relatively low rent.

Location: Sacramento

As of February 2016, average apartment rent within 10 miles of Sacramento, CA is $1143.

One bedroom apartments in Sacramento rent for $988 a month on average and two bedroom apartment rents average $1226.

https://www.rentjungle.com/average-r...o-rent-trends/

[Ironmanlet]

Ok, so tell me what you're proposing. I'm not here to make your argument for you. Tougher USDA standards?

I simply want people to stop with this bullchit dialogue that 'socialism' is some sort of evil when we all know that we would all be no where without it and stop using it as a buzzword to simply insult others.......



I also want people to stop simply posting memes as some sort of justification for an argument.......


I also want people to understand the concept of identity/affiliation complexes.


If your opinions are not based on research or anything other than the political party you affiliate with (in both directions)...and you are simply spouting some echo chamber nonsense.

you are automatically dismissed.

[Lightsout13]

I simply want people to stop with this bullchit dialogue that 'socialism' is some sort of evil when we all know that we would all be no where without it and stop using it as a buzzword to simply insult others.......



I also want people to stop simply posting memes as some sort of justification for an argument.......


I also want people to understand the concept of identity/affiliation complexes.


If your opinions are not based on research or anything other than the political party you affiliate with (in both directions)...and you are simply spouting some echo chamber nonsense.

you are automatically dismissed.

ITT: people don't know the difference between actual Socialism and Social Democracy.

[Armord]

I was making about $800-900 after taxes every 2 weeks. Rented a master bedroom in a house for $500 a month, Drove a paid off car, Insurance paid for the year, $35 phone bill. It was very easy to save money.

So then you made closer to $13 per hour, not minimum wage.

And to add to that you also had a car which is safe to assume you either bough while not having other monthly responsibilities or it was given to you.

Not everyone is afforded that luxury, even as small as you seem to think it is. Most normal people need to make more just to get their life started off on the right foot. If they don't they will literally be stuck riding a bicycle to their **** job hoping for a promotion. You do see the difference don't you?

[CheekyRasta]

ITT: people don't know the difference between actual Socialism and Social Democracy.

wanting wage to be tied to inflation does not even have anything to do with socialism

the lengths some of these people go to blindly defend the elites is mind blowing

[Armord]

wanting wage to be tied to inflation does not even have anything to do with socialism

the lengths some of these people go to blindly defend the elites is mind blowing

It's the misc.

poor men with small dick syndrome trying to impress a bunch of dudes with their made up stories and theories who love to praise their rich masters in the hopes that they will one day be them. But they won't. Dono if that's sad or funny.

[lildave]

http://inequality.org/minimum-wage/





b-b-b-but how am I supposed to feel superior making $16/hr at my retail management job if some burger flipper is making only $1 less than me?

b-b-b-but that burger flipper is getting paid enough to live and they're not even doctors!!! how are these poor multi-billion dollar corporations supposed to sustain themselves

Late stage capitalism is a cancer that turns the lower class idiots against each other.

Yah but if wages are higher then everything costs more.

[Chrysippus]

So if a high school kid doesnt have any skills but wants to earn some money,and an auto shop is willing to pay him ten bucks an hour to drive cars into the bay and take out the trash, or a barber is willing to pay him to sweep hair off the floor and wash the windows, this arrangement should be against federal law? Just lol at me for thinking you were serious for even a second

This guy gets it.

I don't support any minimum wage. It has nothing to do with what I think workers "deserve" to get paid, I simply have no problem with voluntary mutual transactions.

[Schism45]

I simply want people to stop with this bullchit dialogue that 'socialism' is some sort of evil when we all know that we would all be no where without it and stop using it as a buzzword to simply insult others.......

What makes socialism evil is that there is no end point. Government constantly expands, more services fall under it's umbrella, and over time you eventually hit the point where the remaining capitalism can no longer support the weight of the economy and it crashes or some leader realizes they can convert the heavily socialist regime into a totalitarian society. Or both. This is because the common factor driving socialism cannot be sated.

wanting wage to be tied to inflation does not even have anything to do with socialism

the lengths some of these people go to blindly defend the elites is mind blowing

I haven't seen one person defending the elites in this thread. I have, however, seen many people explain to you why your idea would have the opposite impact you want it to, and you continue to blindly ignore this.

[WSG1]

So then you made closer to $13 per hour, not minimum wage.

And to add to that you also had a car which is safe to assume you either bough while not having other monthly responsibilities or it was given to you.

Not everyone is afforded that luxury, even as small as you seem to think it is. Most normal people need to make more just to get their life started off on the right foot. If they don't they will literally be stuck riding a bicycle to their **** job hoping for a promotion. You do see the difference don't you?

Here is a check stub of an average paycheck to prove my point(thats a fuking coffee stain before anyone asks):




I paid cash for a car because i saved up. I know, Its a long lost concept in modern civilization.

[Ironmanlet]

What makes socialism evil is that there is no end point. Government constantly expands, more services fall under it's umbrella, and over time you eventually hit the point where the remaining capitalism can no longer support the weight of the economy and it crashes or some leader realizes they can convert the heavily socialist regime into a totalitarian society. Or both. This is because the common factor driving socialism cannot be sated.

so you will not drive your DOT certified vehicle on DOT certified roads that are maintained with taxes and protected with regulations that ensure your safety tomorrow? and you will not use your FCC mobile device to communicate?

You won't shower with EPA regulated water or consume FDA regulated food?

either you won't do any of that, or you are just blowing smoke bro.

[CheekyRasta]

I haven't seen one person defending the elites in this thread. I have, however, seen many people explain to you why your idea would have the opposite impact you want it to, and you continue to blindly ignore this.

claiming the elites would be FORCED to pass the costs on instead of absorbing them IS blindly defending them

[tats27]

Basic income is a stupid idea - I pray that never happens in my life time.


For the few places which have already implemented a $15 minimum wage, a lot of people have lost their jobs as a consequence.

I'm sure you can find all the examples your heart desires with a quick Google search

[cookiefiend]

claiming the elites would be FORCED to pass the costs on instead of absorbing them IS blindly defending them

Nobody is saying that they are going to be forced, simply that is exactly what would happen if this idea was implemented, hence it being a bad idea.

[Ironmanlet]

Basic income is a stupid idea - I pray that never happens in my life time.


For the few places which have already implemented a $15 minimum wage, a lot of people have lost their jobs as a consequence.

I'm sure you can find all the examples your heart desires with a quick Google search

lol at claiming a quick google search will satisfy the need for citation. hey *******, you make a claim, you provide a citation. If it is as easy a 'a quick google search', then you should have no problem doing so, but you won't.

[CheekyRasta]

Nobody is saying that they are going to be forced, simply that is exactly what would happen if this idea was implemented, hence it being a bad idea.

and that IS blindly defending them, you are MAKING EXCUSES for their behavior

[cookiefiend]

and that IS blindly defending them, you are MAKING EXCUSES for their behavior

I didn't make an excuse, I've simply said thats what they are going to do.

[jamesbwbevis]

OP is right.

Minimum wage should be indexed to inflation, period

lol at paying people less year after year after year for the same job until they cant afford basic s*it

[Schism45]

so you will not drive your DOT certified vehicle on DOT certified roads that are maintained with taxes and protected with regulations that ensure your safety tomorrow? and you will not use your FCC mobile device to communicate?

You won't shower with EPA regulated water or consume FDA regulated food?

either you won't do any of that, or you are just blowing smoke bro.

This straw man argument again. I have the power to vote in accordance of my political beliefs and to vote to dismantle agencies such as the above according to my ideals, when such votes are possible. This is my agent of change for society. However, I live in a society governed in a different way than my ideals, and just like I won't avoid paying taxes because I don't support where they are going, I also won't go out of my way to avoid using government funded services because I don't support them.

claiming the elites would be FORCED to pass the costs on instead of absorbing them IS blindly defending them

No one claimed the elites would be forced to pass on the cost. My, but you are thick.

[Hadtodoit]

Check my post history, I'm not at all left, I am pretty progressive but can't stand the political correctness and SJW stuff going on. I'm an intelligent guy, went from broke to a 1%er in my 20s, very level headed. Only saying that so you have some faith in my opinion.


I truly believe the minimum wage should be higher and it would benefit the economy, all people including the rich and middle class.

The classic counterargument that fast food places will have to raise prices due to paying employees more is a short sighted argument in my eyes.

1) the economy is so much larger and complex than fast food places. They may have to slightly raise prices but the number of sales they make per day, they would only have to boost prices a very very small % to fill the gap of the extra say... $200/day they lose in higher wages.

2) Poor people eat at fast food places often. If they have more money (from bigger paychecks) they will eat out more, equaling higher sales at these restaurants. A good chunk of money will come back to them.

3) Poor people (minimum wage workers) tend to spend more than they make. Any extra money given to them goes RIGHT back into the local economy, into business owners hands. Aka, the rich hands. This is not simply taking from the rich and giving to minimum wage workers, it will go right from the rich's hands, back into the rich's hands.

There are a million other reasons I don't feel like typing up but the average persons spending power is way down and minimum wage should be risen in my opinion. It would benefit everybody.

[jamesbwbevis]

There are a million other reasons I don't feel like typing up but the average persons spending power is way down and minimum wage should be risen in my opinion. It would benefit everybody.

this

people are so fuking stupid. it's not just minimum wage workers, the middle class has had stagnant wages for a while meaning they are becoming much poorer doing the same work

herp derp dats ok doe?

[Schism45]

Check my post history, I'm not at all left, I am pretty progressive but can't stand the political correctness and SJW stuff going on. I'm an intelligent guy, went from broke to a 1%er in my 20s, very level headed. Only saying that so you have some faith in my opinion.


I truly believe the minimum wage should be higher and it would benefit the economy, all people including the rich and middle class.

The classic counterargument that fast food places will have to raise prices due to paying employees more is a short sighted argument in my eyes.

1) the economy is so much larger and complex than fast food places. They may have to slightly raise prices but the number of sales they make per day, they would only have to boost prices a very very small % to fill the gap of the extra say... $200/day they lose in higher wages.

2) Poor people eat at fast food places often. If they have more money (from bigger paychecks) they will eat out more, equaling higher sales at these restaurants. A good chunk of money will come back to them.

3) Poor people (minimum wage workers) tend to spend more than they make. Any extra money given to them goes RIGHT back into the local economy, into business owners hands. Aka, the rich hands. This is not simply taking from the rich and giving to minimum wage workers, it will go right from the rich's hands, back into the rich's hands.

There are a million other reasons I don't feel like typing up but the average persons spending power is way down and minimum wage should be risen in my opinion. It would benefit everybody.

Businesses will raise prices to account for inflation, as they always do, and this would be no different.

Therefore the economic impact is coming directly at the cost of the middle class, and the middle class only, who cannot defend against inflation the way that the business owners can.

Please explain how this benefits the middle class.

[Armord]

Here is a check stub of an average paycheck to prove my point(thats a fuking coffee stain before anyone asks):

[img]http://i67.tinypic.com/24mrdw1.jpg[mg]


I paid cash for a car because i saved up. I know, Its a long lost concept in modern civilization.

Just want you to know that you did get some respect for actually putting in 50 hours a week to get what you got.

But please understand my stance on this. You said that you made jack sht, remember that.

If your employer had you work a regular 40 and just paid you a living wage of $14.59 (which would read exactly the same as the stub you posted) you would have been exactly as broke as you were without having to slave 50+ hours per week.

And that is the issue. You are forced to work ridiculous hours just to rent a 1 bedroom room, drive a shtty car and barely scrape by. Most employers are hugely against giving their employees over time which turns "scraping by" into "can't afford to eat".

Are you starting to see why this is important?

[F23]

Here's the problem. Nobody's going to buy a Big Mac for $7. Look into the concept of price elasticity... people are very substitute for other food (cook at home) if the price rises. Fast food restaurants are going to raise prices a little (like $0.50) and automate as much as the production process as possible, meaning that a lot of the workers are going to lose their jobs.