AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[nightanole]

So if I'm not 13% BF do I calculate what my current weight would be if I was 13% BF and use that for my calculation?

That would work. Remember this is a body building routine, your goal is to get to 13% while the weight is light and you are learning the lifts. This is not starting strength or strong lifts where the goal is to put as much meat on you as possible in six-eight months @20% bf and then cut for 4-6 months so you can see some abs..

[OryxOryx]

That would work. Remember this is a body building routine, your goal is to get to 13% while the weight is light and you are learning the lifts. This is not starting strength or strong lifts where the goal is to put as much meat on you as possible in six-eight months @20% bf and then cut for 4-6 months so you can see some abs..

Well I'm on a looong cut. Down from a peak of 309 pounds I'm currently at 225lbs. I did 309 to 260 just with diet and 260 to 225 with AllPro + diet.

[LordeHellig]

Machines can be used for OHP and Squats if you have good alignment and dont cheat by pushing the weight forward to relieve your posterior chain. You may want to switch some exercises around if doing full dumb bell. "the arnold press" should be subbed for the OHP, the goblet squat for the back squat, and maybe even floor press for the bench press.

And the way not to cheat on the squats is to position yourself directly underneath the bench press bars rather than away from it, correct? It seems like the goblet squat is better in this case and I can hold a dumbbell rather than a kettlebell.

[LordeHellig]

Good for you, OryxOryx! I'm at 249 and need to cut at least 40 lbs.

[nightanole]

And the way not to cheat on the squats is to position yourself directly underneath the bench press bars rather than away from it, correct? It seems like the goblet squat is better in this case and I can hold a dumbbell rather than a kettlebell.

Has nothing do to with bar alignment. Even with perfect alignment, the lift will be easier if you push the bar forward and use your quads/abs vs doing it properly and using your spinal errectors and hamstrings to balance the weight.

The goblet squat would be a much better alternative. The only down side is finding/holding very heavy dumb bells. Once 90lbs comes around, it will become very difficult to control, yet thats some peoples 50% warmup weight for a back squat.

Id advice a zercher squat when things get heavy, but that requires a bar bell.

[nightanole]

Good for you, OryxOryx! I'm at 249 and need to cut at least 40 lbs.

We had one guy drop over 150lbs in 1 year from the part3 thread for a relatives wedding. he went from something like 375 down to 220 .

[LordeHellig]

We had one guy drop over 150lbs in 1 year from the part3 thread for a relatives wedding. he went from something like 375 down to 220 .

That's amazing.

I hear AllPro is better than Fierce 5 for people in my condition (overweight, trying to lose fat).

A friend who has lift for many years advised that I increase my protein intake while cutting carbs and calories, which will help lose fat while building muscle, so that's what I'm doing.

I wish there was another 'goal' in BB.com between 'Strongman' and 'Bodybuilder', since I think I would be good between the two. I picked Strongman but it seems counter-intuitive to go up in weight in my present condition.

[nightanole]

That's amazing.

I hear AllPro is better than Fierce 5 for people in my condition (overweight, trying to lose fat).

A friend who has lift for many years advised that I increase my protein intake while cutting carbs and calories, which will help lose fat while building muscle, so that's what I'm doing.

I wish there was another 'goal' in BB.com between 'Strongman' and 'Bodybuilder', since I think I would be good between the two. I picked Strongman but it seems counter-intuitive to go up in weight in my present condition.

at 5.8 you should be around 170-180lbs and be capable of squatting 300lbs after 18 months of training.
I would use that for my long term goals /metrics.

The recommended starting diet on allpro is 100g of fat/protein and 200-300g of carbs.
This diet serves a few things:
100g of protein is plenty for any only 5.7-6.2 that has never lifted and does not have that 15-20lbs of earned muscle. 200g protein diets are for the folks that have a tdee of 3500-4000 calories and its impossible for them to not hit 200g with whole foods, even straight oatmeal would do it.

100g of fats is because most people dont have a good balance of fat, so the slight increase (25grams above a body builder diet) will make sure they get a good blend for;hormone production, recovery, and joint health.

200-300g of carbs is for performance. Its almost impossible to maintain performance below that. If you go for high protein low carb, odds are you will end up small just because that is more of muscle sparing maintenance diet vs muscle building performance diet.


I would recommend doing some home work on finding out what people eat who need to perform to put food on the plate and or keep a scholarship vs body builders who have to pay to play.

[umeboshi]

I imagine this has been asked, it just may've taken quite a lot of trawling. I'm guessing they don't work them as good, but do upright rows work the biceps nearly as good as curls? I suppose they work them well enough, at any rate, considering they're a suggested/recommended substitution? Thanks. And do you reckon Ashtanga yoga (a relatively demanding type) done for upwards of an hour daily might be too much? Also kickboxing classes twice a week... My guess is that for the first question, upright rows do work biceps well enough, for the second one I'll need to try it and see (it may even help, with flexibility and that), and the third one it would be too much...? Thanks again.

[nightanole]

I imagine this has been asked, it just may've taken quite a lot of trawling. I'm guessing they don't work them as good, but do upright rows work the biceps nearly as good as curls? I suppose they work them well enough, at any rate, considering they're a suggested/recommended substitution? Thanks. And do you reckon Ashtanga yoga (a relatively demanding type) done for upwards of an hour daily might be too much? Also kickboxing classes twice a week... My guess is that for the first question, upright rows do work biceps well enough, for the second one I'll need to try it and see (it may even help, with flexibility and that), and the third one it would be too much...? Thanks again.

upright rows turn the curl into a compound for shoulders. Some people need a palms up curl to balance with the palms down row.
the yoga sounds good. Anything you can sustain for over an hour is good. The cardio limit on the routine is 3 10k jogs per week. This is not an off season program, so you are free to do sports.

[BambinaBoom]

Nightanole

I really want to get some extra buttwork in, and I was wondering if I could add in a machine called the bootybuilder. Basically it is just the glutebridge. Is this absolutely not recommended? If I can't add it in on the days where I do allpro, can I do it any other day?

Thanks i.a, you are great!!

[nightanole]

Nightanole

I really want to get some extra buttwork in, and I was wondering if I could add in a machine called the bootybuilder. Basically it is just the glutebridge. Is this absolutely not recommended? If I can't add it in on the days where I do allpro, can I do it any other day?

Thanks i.a, you are great!!

Its just a cable hip thruster. Its normally used to bring up a dead lift. If you are going to use it, i would do 1 set directly after medium and light days. Pick a weight you can only do 3-4 reps with, when you can do 5 add weight to get it back down to 3 reps. The cable hip thruster is nice since it has the pad build in.

[BambinaBoom]

Its just a cable hip thruster. Its normally used to bring up a dead lift. If you are going to use it, i would do 1 set directly after medium and light days. Pick a weight you can only do 3-4 reps with, when you can do 5 add weight to get it back down to 3 reps. The cable hip thruster is nice since it has the pad build in.

Yess!! Alright! Should I do 2 sets?

[nightanole]

Yess!! Alright! Should I do 2 sets?

1 set after medium and light day. For all you know your booty is gaining at max speed just from the core workout. If you add volume too fast you will stall. By using a much higher intensity than the core workout, the accessory should help you use your glutes more effectively in the core workout.

[umeboshi]

upright rows turn the curl into a compound for shoulders. Some people need a palms up curl to balance with the palms down row.
the yoga sounds good. Anything you can sustain for over an hour is good. The cardio limit on the routine is 3 10k jogs per week. This is not an off season program, so you are free to do sports.

So should I just try and see whether I'm one of those people? Start with the upright row and keep note? In what sense would you need the palms-up curl - aesthetic development or something else? Otherwise that's everything answered, thanks a lot

[nightanole]

So should I just try and see whether I'm one of those people? Start with the upright row and keep note? In what sense would you need the palms-up curl - aesthetic development or something else? Otherwise that's everything answered, thanks a lot

On head is hit hard by a palms down, the other head is hit hard by a palms up. Both heads are hit during each movement. If you feel your shoulders are lacking, do the upright row, if you dont feel your biceps are getting hit with the row (or if you are doing chinups as an accessory) to the palms up curl. Hell some people cant do the upright row because of their shoulders, and some cant do the palms up curl because of bicep tendinitis.

Personally i would not do the palms up curl at all, if you can do 5-10 quality chinups (not pullups). The curl is just for cosmetic/aesthetic just like the calf raise.

[umeboshi]

On head is hit hard by a palms down, the other head is hit hard by a palms up. Both heads are hit during each movement. If you feel your shoulders are lacking, do the upright row, if you dont feel your biceps are getting hit with the row (or if you are doing chinups as an accessory) to the palms up curl. Hell some people cant do the upright row because of their shoulders, and some cant do the palms up curl because of bicep tendinitis.

Personally i would not do the palms up curl at all, if you can do 5-10 quality chinups (not pullups). The curl is just for cosmetic/aesthetic just like the calf raise.

Sure, thank you.

[Znarff]

I've been doing a deep cut during my second cycle and been eating 1700 calories on average (my maintenance is 2400). My upper body lifts are suffering,just as predicted. Failed my bench press at 10 reps in the second set, and it's the same with my OHP. Was wondering what's the science behind this reason? Why is my upper body suffering more than my squats during a calorie deficit?

Another question, I'm almost done with my cut. I'm at around 11 to 12% body fat now. I'll probably be between 10% to 11% next week but last week was my test week. I failed my BP and OHP on the aforementioned second work set at rep10 . Should I do another test week next week or should I just start from Week 1 again (this will be my third cycle), increasing everything else by 10% and keeping OHP and BP at the same weights?

[nightanole]

I've been doing a deep cut during my second cycle and been eating 1700 calories on average (my maintenance is 2400). My upper body lifts are suffering,just as predicted. Failed my bench press at 10 reps in the second set, and it's the same with my OHP. Was wondering what's the science behind this reason? Why is my upper body suffering more than my squats during a calorie deficit?

Another question, I'm almost done with my cut. I'm at around 11 to 12% body fat now. I'll probably be between 10% to 11% next week but last week was my test week. I failed my BP and OHP on the aforementioned second work set at rep10 . Should I do another test week next week or should I just start from Week 1 again (this will be my third cycle), increasing everything else by 10% and keeping OHP and BP at the same weights?

Nobody increases their OHP on a cut, some can still progress at squats. You are also on a very deep cut, and eating way less than i recommend (odds are not even 150g of carbs) and that carb cut severely impacts performance.

In just run next cycle like you planned, bump everything but OHP/Bench. Spend this cycle or at least the first 3 weeks at your new TDEE whatever that may be. Then add enough carbs so that "you" start gaining about 2-3lbs a cycle. 500cal surplus a day is not going to make 1lb a muscle a week (that and muscle is only 900 cals a pound).

[Znarff]

Nobody increases their OHP on a cut, some can still progress at squats. You are also on a very deep cut, and eating way less than i recommend (odds are not even 150g of carbs) and that carb cut severely impacts performance.

In just run next cycle like you planned, bump everything but OHP/Bench. Spend this cycle or at least the first 3 weeks at your new TDEE whatever that may be. Then add enough carbs so that "you" start gaining about 2-3lbs a cycle. 500cal surplus a day is not going to make 1lb a muscle a week (that and muscle is only 900 cals a pound).

So you recommend me adding just a little bit 10% on my TDEE (200 to 300) instead of the usual 500 calories a day, correct?

[nightanole]

So you recommend me adding just a little bit 10% on my TDEE (200 to 300) instead of the usual 500 calories a day, correct?

Id add a few hundred daily cals every 2 weeks till the scale starts changing. Everyone one respond different.

Personally id eat just to keep up with progression (10% bumps). If you want to flat out bulk at 500 over tdee you better be making 15% bumps or you are just putting on fat.

[MJL627]

I'm a little confused about the autoregulated version and wanted to make sure I understand... is my goal to hit the 24 reps in 2 sets right off the bat? Or am I still spending a week at 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12?

For example, let's say when I start tomorrow... is my goal to hit 16 reps each? Or should I go for 24?

Also, do I add weight once I hit 24 reps for all exercises, or only as I hit 24 for each one? For example, if in a week I'm at 24 reps for squats, but only 20 for bench... do I add weight for squats or do I need to wait for my bench to hit 24 with the current weight?

[Nakia83]

Hi Nightanole.

Yesterday I had my 3rd test day!
You probably do not remember, I had some trouble passing on my BOR (stuck on 20kg for 2 cycles). I swapped BOR with 3-4 heavy rep Pendlay Row as you recommended and I passed my regular 12 rep BOR (20 kg) on test day yesterday

I do have a question, this last cycle doing just low rep pendlay row I have had constant mild muscle soarness in midback and lats. It's not a bad kinda pain just regular slight feeling of fatigue/soarness but it never seems to pass? Is this ok or is it a sign that im overdoing it?

Should I add 10% for next cycle and go back to regular BOR now since I passed 12 reps on it yesterday.

[nightanole]

I'm a little confused about the autoregulated version and wanted to make sure I understand... is my goal to hit the 24 reps in 2 sets right off the bat? Or am I still spending a week at 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12?

For example, let's say when I start tomorrow... is my goal to hit 16 reps each? Or should I go for 24?

Also, do I add weight once I hit 24 reps for all exercises, or only as I hit 24 for each one? For example, if in a week I'm at 24 reps for squats, but only 20 for bench... do I add weight for squats or do I need to wait for my bench to hit 24 with the current weight?

You start off with a weight you can lift about 10 times. Your goal is always to get 24 in 2 sets. Its going to take you 3-6 weeks to add 8 reps to your rep goal to get to 24 if your starting rep count was 16. You should always try to get in as many reps as possible each set. Odds are your first session will be 10 and 7 reps.

You add weight to any exercise you get 24 reps on.

[nightanole]

Hi Nightanole.

Yesterday I had my 3rd test day!
You probably do not remember, I had some trouble passing on my BOR (stuck on 20kg for 2 cycles). I swapped BOR with 3-4 heavy rep Pendlay Row as you recommended and I passed my regular 12 rep BOR (20 kg) on test day yesterday

I do have a question, this last cycle doing just low rep pendlay row I have had constant mild muscle soarness in midback and lats. It's not a bad kinda pain just regular slight feeling of fatigue/soarness but it never seems to pass? Is this ok or is it a sign that im overdoing it?

Should I add 10% for next cycle and go back to regular BOR now since I passed 12 reps on it yesterday.

Yes if you passed test day you should add 10%. The heavy sets will add soreness. I just finished 2 sets of 5 squats at 245lbs, which was 15lbs higher than my last peak, and i couldnt walk for 2 days, and ive been squating 2-3 days a week for years. Minor weight changes will cause alot of soreness if you are working with a 9.5-10 on the RPE scale.

So yea once the accessory fixes the main, drop the accessory for a cycle and see if it works out. With allpro if people are going to have a cosmetic weak point, its normally side delts and lats. This is usually fixed with a row accessory.

If you think you can handle the volume, a great row accessory would be pendlays in sets of 3 with 30 seconds of rest. Once you can do 10 sets (takes less than 9 minutes) add weight (weight amount doesnt matter). This will add alot of fatigue, and you will be working with a much heavier weight than normal, however its very low impact on the recovery/soreness.

[Nakia83]

Yes if you passed test day you should add 10%. The heavy sets will add soreness. I just finished 2 sets of 5 squats at 245lbs, which was 15lbs higher than my last peak, and i couldnt walk for 2 days, and ive been squating 2-3 days a week for years. Minor weight changes will cause alot of soreness if you are working with a 9.5-10 on the RPE scale.

So yea once the accessory fixes the main, drop the accessory for a cycle and see if it works out. With allpro if people are going to have a cosmetic weak point, its normally side delts and lats. This is usually fixed with a row accessory.

If you think you can handle the volume, a great row accessory would be pendlays in sets of 3 with 30 seconds of rest. Once you can do 10 sets (takes less than 9 minutes) add weight (weight amount doesnt matter). This will add alot of fatigue, and you will be working with a much heavier weight than normal, however its very low impact on the recovery/soreness.

Thanks!

You do this at the end of the program then I assume?
What about pull-ups?

[nightanole]

Thanks!

You do this at the end of the program then I assume?
What about pull-ups?

end of session when you are prefatrigued.
chinups(not pullups) are recomended as a curl replacement if you can do them for over 6 reps, even if assisted.

[enr33]

nightanole,

Only did 1 heavy last week. However I decided to drop the PWO due to the medicine Im taking and I took Cellucor NO3 instead. Though I couldnt finish all the sets, Last Thursday was the first time I got a full 8 hours of sleep before the morning workout I do.

Squat: 45x12, 90x12, 180x12, 180x12 didnt have any problems although I got a bit lightheaded on last 3 reps.
Bench: 45x12, 55x12, 110x9, 110x6. This is like the fourth or fifth cycle im having to repeat this weight. I cant seem to make any progress at all on bench
Row: 45x12, 45x12, 85x12, 85x12 I did all the reps but the 2 heavies are always forced and the form is sloppy. I was doing 120 with mediocre form back in december, dropped the weight 2 cycles ago and I still cant do full ROM for all reps.
Standing Press: 60x12, 60x12, did all the reps, form at the end of both sets was a bit sloppy though
Stiff Legged Deadlift: 155x12, 155x12 got all the reps done form could have been a bit better though

at this point I was exhausted and craving sugar really bad and I stopped. Had I continued...
Barbell Curl: 55x12 55x12 I would have completed all reps but I have an excruciating pain in my wrists around the 9 rep mark.
Calf Raises: there would have been 0 problem completing all reps.

Since I got the full 8 hours of sleep, Id like to continue doing 2 heavies a week. I'll see how my summer work schedule plays out and might go back to 3 days a week.





What recommendations do you have for the exercises I failed? Perhaps I need to adjust the number of sets I do for certain exercises?

[nightanole]

Long term heavy heavy should be done with 3 sets instead of 2 on the first 3 lifts, to make up the volume.

As for accessories:
Your OHP is very low. Try pushpressing your bench weight for a few reps after each workout.
Row. You can try penlay rows with 15-20% more than you heavy row day for a few reps after each workout.
I dont have a magic bullet for bench. You could try doing a 20 degree+ decline with a weight 15-20% heavier than your bench for a few reps after the workout too.

The point of all of these accessories is to correct form and improve bracing, while keeping additional weekly volume to a minimum.

[enr33]

Long term heavy heavy should be done with 3 sets instead of 2 on the first 3 lifts, to make up the volume.

As for accessories:
Your OHP is very low. Try pushpressing your bench weight for a few reps after each workout.
Row. You can try penlay rows with 15-20% more than you heavy row day for a few reps after each workout.
I dont have a magic bullet for bench. You could try doing a 20 degree+ decline with a weight 15-20% heavier than your bench for a few reps after the workout too.

The point of all of these accessories is to correct form and improve bracing, while keeping additional weekly volume to a minimum.

Thanks. I dont quite understand what your saying about doing 3 sets instead of 2 on the first 3 lifts