phosphatidic acid

[chicago1963]

2 700mg doses would be 1.4g, you are taking 1.5g. You guys are really having anxiety over such insignificant details.

No anxiety over anything its just ever time I read this thread its different, I thought you were going up to 3 grams? seems like every workout you increased your dose to the point of you getting light headed, although you did say it may have been the caffeine you took on an empty stomach but who knows??. So now its 1.5 split into pre and post, ok

[KillerB84]

No anxiety over anything its just ever time I read this thread its different, I thought you were going up to 3 grams? seems like every workout you increased your dose to the point of you getting light headed, although you did say it may have been the caffeine you took on an empty stomach but who knows??. So now its 1.5 split into pre and post, ok

I noticed no difference between 2 and a half tablespoons and 3 and a half tablespoons. So through my own personal experimentation, I discovered that 2 and a half tablespoons (1500mg PA) taken 1 hour pwo is my sweet spot.

[chicago1963]

I noticed no difference between 2 and a half tablespoons and 3 and a half tablespoons. So through my own personal experimentation, I discovered that 2 and a half tablespoons (1500mg PA) taken 1 hour pwo is my sweet spot.

That's good to know, thanks!

[allanhouston90]

So after following since the first page of this thread and watching how things went down I have been hesitant to post.

I originally wanted to wait until I was done with my two months ABE and amentomax run to start PA, but with everything happening, and people claiming crazy results, I had to try it. It seemed too go to be true.

I used two tblsp about an hour pre workout for two days straight, and by my third workout a day later, I'm a believer.

First off, the muscle fullness with this stuff is unreal compared to anything I have tried. I'm a lifetime natty so it's easy for me to tell when something is really working. It was like how I felt on my first couple workouts with hemavol years back. After four workouts and 5 full doses of this SL stuff I have only noticed slight strength increases but my endurance is way up and I can say that with absolute certainty. Yesterday, I did 5 sets of dead hang wide grip pull ups strict form going for 12, and got 12 easily on my first three sets. That In itself was a pr for me. I went on to do 11 and 8 after that my last two sets. Usually I'm around 4-5 reps the last two sets.

Seated Overhead press endurance was crazy as well as I did 70 lb db's for 4 sets of ten. Usually do 60-65 lbs for sets of 7-8. Those are just a couple examples to name a few.

Hunger is up but not overwhelming like some. Weight is roughly the same but I play a lot of basketball so sweating and water intake plays a big role in that.

All in all this is a very intriguing supplement and I now own 6 cans of fearn and it's soon to be more tomorrow. Also really excited to run with ARA this winter.

Btw ABE and amentomax have been my favorite recomp supplements I have ever taken and I'm near the end of my run so I'm putting that disclaimer on this post as they will be two almost staples for me in the future. Crazy gains as far as the mirror and how I feel. It's great stuff.

[DannPM]

DannPM, or anyone else interested, Stout had this to say when asked about using PA whilst cutting (Id post link to this Q&A but not sure if allowed):

"...PA would assist (along with resistance training) at maintaining muscle during hypo-caloric intake. PA augments the anabolic response of resistance training and as long as your anabolic response is greater than your catabolic response then preservation of muscle will take place"

Nothing revolutionary there, but, yeah..

NICE! I’ll definitely continue to take while I cut. I will probably log that as well when it comes time. Funny thing is I do feel leaner on PA. Probably just the increased muscle fullness but still a good feeling!

I noticed no difference between 2 and a half tablespoons and 3 and a half tablespoons. So through my own personal experimentation, I discovered that 2 and a half tablespoons (1500mg PA) taken 1 hour pwo is my sweet spot.

This is basically what I’ve been doing as well now. After reading the Dr. Stouts Q&A that was mentioned I have been adding 1 TBS into my post-workout shake as well since he mentions that it could be of benefit there.

So I’m getting ~1.8g of total PA on training days (1.2g 60-mins-pre, 0.6g post) and a 1.2g on rest days.

[DGarcia519]

Haven't read this thread since yesterday morning/early afternoon so I had some catching up to do. I did 4 tbsp again today "pre-workout" (about 1.5hrs to avoid stomach issues), with a small amount of milk (just drank it down). I have a few questions based on the info provided:
1. Should I avoid taking it with milk? I didn't notice much of the crazy focus I did day 1 (3 days ago).
2. Am I taking too much at 4 tbsp training days, 2 tbsp off days? I don't have ferns (yet) so I don't have an exact PA count.
3. So is everyone splitting their doses now, into 2x/day?
Thanks guys. Appreciate any feedback.

[NewAgeMayan]

Yeah I think after mulling over all the info we currently have (anecdotal as well as scientific) I myself will be trialling a 1500-1800mg daily dose of PA. Stout's suggestion of 2 doses makes some sense, and appears closer to what MrC was recommending too.

Its a starting point, and as always things can be tweaked through experience so as to best find the sweet spot that KillerB referred to.

[KillerB84]

So after following since the first page of this thread and watching how things went down I have been hesitant to post.

I originally wanted to wait until I was done with my two months ABE and amentomax run to start PA, but with everything happening, and people claiming crazy results, I had to try it. It seemed too go to be true.

I used two tblsp about an hour pre workout for two days straight, and by my third workout a day later, I'm a believer.

First off, the muscle fullness with this stuff is unreal compared to anything I have tried. I'm a lifetime natty so it's easy for me to tell when something is really working. It was like how I felt on my first couple workouts with hemavol years back. After four workouts and 5 full doses of this SL stuff I have only noticed slight strength increases but my endurance is way up and I can say that with absolute certainty. Yesterday, I did 5 sets of dead hang wide grip pull ups strict form going for 12, and got 12 easily on my first three sets. That In itself was a pr for me. I went on to do 11 and 8 after that my last two sets. Usually I'm around 4-5 reps the last two sets.

Seated Overhead press endurance was crazy as well as I did 70 lb db's for 4 sets of ten. Usually do 60-65 lbs for sets of 7-8. Those are just a couple examples to name a few.

Hunger is up but not overwhelming like some. Weight is roughly the same but I play a lot of basketball so sweating and water intake plays a big role in that.

All in all this is a very intriguing supplement and I now own 6 cans of fearn and it's soon to be more tomorrow. Also really excited to run with ARA this winter.

Btw ABE and amentomax have been my favorite recomp supplements I have ever taken and I'm near the end of my run so I'm putting that disclaimer on this post as they will be two almost staples for me in the future. Crazy gains as far as the mirror and how I feel. It's great stuff.

It's definitely the real deal.

[NewAgeMayan]

I shouldnt imagine the milk having any detrimental blunting effect on the soy-l, if anything it may slow its absorption perhaps (wasnt this what MrC was suggesting with the 'take PA/Soyl with fatty food', to slow gastric emptying?)

[NewAgeMayan]

After reading the Dr. Stouts Q&A that was mentioned I have been adding 1 TBS into my post-workout shake as well since he mentions that it could be of benefit there.

So I’m getting ~1.8g of total PA on training days (1.2g 60-mins-pre, 0.6g post) and a 1.2g on rest days.

That is currently my thinking on this too; emphasise the prewo dose (in terms of quantity), include a smaller second dose.

[DGarcia519]

I shouldnt imagine the milk having any detrimental blunting effect on the soy-l, if anything it may slow its absorption perhaps (wasnt this what MrC was suggesting with the 'take PA/Soyl with fatty food', to slow gastric emptying?)

Yeah I saw it mentioned that Coop had said to avoid taking it with food but I didn't see the post, so I wasn't sure why. If taking pwo would one not want to avoid slowing gastric emptying of the Soy-L?

[TheFugitive]

So after following since the first page of this thread and watching how things went down I have been hesitant to post.

I originally wanted to wait until I was done with my two months ABE and amentomax run to start PA, but with everything happening, and people claiming crazy results, I had to try it. It seemed too go to be true.

I used two tblsp about an hour pre workout for two days straight, and by my third workout a day later, I'm a believer.

First off, the muscle fullness with this stuff is unreal compared to anything I have tried. I'm a lifetime natty so it's easy for me to tell when something is really working. It was like how I felt on my first couple workouts with hemavol years back. After four workouts and 5 full doses of this SL stuff I have only noticed slight strength increases but my endurance is way up and I can say that with absolute certainty. Yesterday, I did 5 sets of dead hang wide grip pull ups strict form going for 12, and got 12 easily on my first three sets. That In itself was a pr for me. I went on to do 11 and 8 after that my last two sets. Usually I'm around 4-5 reps the last two sets.

Seated Overhead press endurance was crazy as well as I did 70 lb db's for 4 sets of ten. Usually do 60-65 lbs for sets of 7-8. Those are just a couple examples to name a few.

Hunger is up but not overwhelming like some. Weight is roughly the same but I play a lot of basketball so sweating and water intake plays a big role in that.

All in all this is a very intriguing supplement and I now own 6 cans of fearn and it's soon to be more tomorrow. Also really excited to run with ARA this winter.

Btw ABE and amentomax have been my favorite recomp supplements I have ever taken and I'm near the end of my run so I'm putting that disclaimer on this post as they will be two almost staples for me in the future. Crazy gains as far as the mirror and how I feel. It's great stuff.

Are you mixing or sprinkling your SL?

[hamdysayed]

So after following since the first page of this thread and watching how things went down I have been hesitant to post.

I originally wanted to wait until I was done with my two months ABE and amentomax run to start PA, but with everytuhhing happening, and people claiming crazy results, I had to try it. It seemed too go to be true.

I used two tblsp about an hour pre workout for two days straight, and by my third workout a day later, I'm a believer.

First off, the muscle fullness with this stuff is unreal compared to anything I have tried. I'm a lifetime natty so it's easy for me to tell when something is really working. It was like how I felt on my first couple workouts with hemavol years back. After four workouts and 5 full doses of this SL stuff I have only noticed slight strength increases but my endurance is way up and I can say that with absolute certainty. Yesterday, I did 5 sets of dead hang wide grip pull ups strict form going for 12, and got 12 easily on my first three sets. That In itself was a pr for me. I went on to do 11 and 8 after that my last two sets. Usually I'm around 4-5 reps the last two sets.

Seated Overhead press endurance was crazy as well as I did 70 lb db's for 4 sets of ten. Usually do 60-65 lbs for sets of 7-8. Those are just a couple examples to name a few.

Hunger is up but not overwhelming like some. Weight is roughly the same but I play a lot of basketball so sweating and water intake plays a big role in that.

All in all this is a very intriguing supplement and I now own 6 cans of fearn and it's soon to be more tomorrow. Also really excited to run with ARA this winter.

Btw ABE and amentomax have been my favorite recomp supplements I have ever taken and I'm near the end of my run so I'm putting that disclaimer on this post as they will be two almost staples for me in the future. Crazy gains as far as the mirror and how I feel. It's great stuff.

another great testimony.

[NewAgeMayan]

Yeah I saw it mentioned that Coop had said to avoid taking it with food but I didn't see the post, so I wasn't sure why. If taking pwo would one not want to avoid slowing gastric emptying of the Soy-L?

From memory MrC did recommend dosing with fatty food, I think this is one reason Quadzilla may be dosing his with his postwo shake?

As for the avoiding slowing of gastric emptying if dosing prewo Im not sure, I cant remember off hand what the typical digestion rate of food is so this could be a moot point anyway.

[allanhouston90]

Are you mixing or sprinkling your SL?

Two tbsp straight down the hatch an hour pre and one tbsp on off days. Will continue to play with the dosages but want to keep it similar to what I will do when I run King V2.

[NewAgeMayan]

Yep, there's always a saturation point, but on the flip side, there's a saturation point for absorption of a compound in the gut. I think spacing out the doses throughout the day and consuming them with a fatty meal, as well as the preworkout dose, are the best way to go

Just bumping this, as it is relevant to some current questions.

Reading between the lines a little, it seems one reason MrC advocates split doses is that the gut will only be able to absorb so much of the ingredients at one time; an excessive dose will lead to waste?

[DGarcia519]

Just bumping this, as it is relevant to some current questions.

Reading between the lines a little, it seems one reason MrC advocates split doses is that the gut will only be able to absorb so much of the ingredients at one time; an excessive dose will lead to waste?

Yeah that's what I'm taking away from it. Also, it seems that he's suggesting to take the non-preworkout dose with a fatty meal. I'll start doing this tomorrow (as I already took 4 tbsp today, lol). Thanks for bumping this.

[cumminslifter]

starting SL today. heading to gym now

[hamdysayed]

starting SL today. heading to gym now

how u dosing it.

[De__eB]

Why is there like 30 pages of arguing over when to take PA, and whether it works intra/extracellularly?

It pretty clearly has effects both intracellularly and extracellularly via a number of different pathways.

Taking oral PA with the goal of increasing cell membrane accumulation of PA would enhance both.

check out where both of these pathways start:

'PA Accumulation -> Exercise-induced PLD -> PA Release -> mTOR'

'PA Accumulation -> LPAAT metabolism of PA into LPA -> ERK Pathway'

Also, KDD, learn to read, because multiple times in the Tampa study that you've referenced probably 500 times in your walls of text, they say that multiple pathways are involved.

Thus through the activation of multiple pathways, supplementing with PA could result in greater rates of MPS than RT alone and might explain why we observed a greater increase in skeletal muscle accretion when supplementing with PA.

It has also been shown that exogenous sources of PA can promote the activation of mTOR signaling, yet the effects of exogenous PA appear to be driven through multiple mechanisms.

[bpshock]

Why is there like 30 pages of arguing over when to take PA, and whether it works intra/extracellularly?

It pretty clearly has effects both intracellularly and extracellularly via a number of different pathways.

Taking oral PA with the goal of increasing cell membrane accumulation of PA would enhance both.

check out where both of these pathways start:

'PA Accumulation -> Exercise-induced PLD -> PA Release -> mTOR'

'PA Accumulation -> LPAAT metabolism of PA into LPA -> ERK Pathway'

Also, KDD, learn to read, because multiple times in the Tampa study that you've referenced probably 500 times in your walls of text, they say that multiple pathways are involved.

I think we can all agree that a pre-workout dose should be taken. The next question is do you take another dose post workout, or if you lift in the evenings can you dose one for breakfast and the next pre workout (not doing a "post" workout dose)? This might be splitting hairs either way, but Wilson states pre and post may be better BUT Stout states something about consuming PA 7 hours apart...

[NewAgeMayan]

I think we can all agree that a pre-workout dose should be taken. The next question is do you take another dose post workout, or if you lift in the evenings can you dose one for breakfast and the next pre workout (not doing a "post" workout dose)? This might be splitting hairs either way, but Wilson states pre and post may be better BUT Stout states something about consuming PA 7 hours apart...

Stout didnt specify 7hrs...read the q and a. Someone used 7 as an example, Stout agreed that a second dose was a good idea. He didnt say 7 was the magic number.

He also said he didnt think a second dose was "needed".

[hamdysayed]

Why is there like 30 pages of arguing over when to take PA, and whether it works intra/extracellularly?

It pretty clearly has effects both intracellularly and extracellularly via a number of different pathways.

Taking oral PA with the goal of increasing cell membrane accumulation of PA would enhance both.

check out where both of these pathways start:

'PA Accumulation -> Exercise-induced PLD -> PA Release -> mTOR'

'PA Accumulation -> LPAAT metabolism of PA into LPA -> ERK Pathway'

Also, KDD, learn to read, because multiple times in the Tampa study that you've referenced probably 500 times in your walls of text, they say that multiple pathways are involved.

because ppl like to argue lol...

[DannPM]

I think we can all agree that a pre-workout dose should be taken. The next question is do you take another dose post workout, or if you lift in the evenings can you dose one for breakfast and the next pre workout (not doing a "post" workout dose)? This might be splitting hairs either way, but Wilson states pre and post may be better BUT Stout states something about consuming PA 7 hours apart...

http://www.drugs.com/npp/lecithin.html

According to this there was a systematic review of dosages ranging up to 35g. I wish I could find the review but I search PubMed a bit and was unable to locate. It is possibly quite old.

With a 35g SL dose (that’s ~4.6 TBS) upper limit dose the dosing scheme could actually accommodate a heavy PWO dose, a post-wo dose, and supplemental doses split the rest of the day emphasizing both dosing schemes you’ve mentioned to the max.

[DGarcia519]

because ppl like to argue lol...

Isn't that the point of internet forums?

[El Conquistador]

Also, KDD, learn to read, because multiple times in the Tampa study that you've referenced probably 500 times in your walls of text, they say that multiple pathways are involved.

Looks like he has plenty of time to brush up on his reading skills now!

[NewAgeMayan]

Thats one of the ironies of the human condition, isnt it?

I mean, we come on a forum to argue and find the dosing protocol that gives us that 0.01% edge...and then we go go p!ss it away (and more) on Friday nite at the bar.

We are consistently inconsistent

[DGarcia519]

Thats one of the ironies of the human condition, isnt it?

I mean, we come on a forum to argue and find the dosing protocol that gives us that 0.01% edge...and then we go go p!ss it away (and more) on Friday nite at the bar.

We are consistently inconsistent

Or on cinnamon buns. Someone dropped a tray off in the office I work in. I held up for 30 mins, than gave in on a small piece. Damn temptations, and my general lack of willpower lol.

But yeah I have to agree with you. I don't drink much anymore (1-2 beers if I stay in with friends, 2-3 if I go out), but that, on top of the occasional burger, dessert, etc. all adds up. I know personally, I need to be more accountable for myself, but at the same time, I don't want to give up living my life and having fun either. End mini-rant/

[Big_Spaz]

Alright guys I'm sold (on the idea of trying PA) ...

Credit card in hand, give me the best suggestions/ideas/products I should purchase to give this a try. PM me if you know of any excellent deals or if here is the best place to shop (obviously). Thanks in advance and reps will be given






-Spaz

[JaredUdch]

Alright guys I'm sold (on the idea of trying PA) ...

Credit card in hand, give me the best suggestions/ideas/products I should purchase to give this a try. PM me if you know of any excellent deals or if here is the best place to shop (obviously). Thanks in advance and reps will be given






-Spaz

Google Fearn Soy Lecithin.

It lists the PA content and other Phosopholipids.