This mma fighter is hands down the most dominant period.

[Chett]

sherdog has the only "official" constantly updated rankings by pure statistical information that i have found.

[smokeater]

i doubt they would just invert the numbers and let it get through,

Well since you don't know how the numbers were put together that is an assumption.

And BTW, Sherdog is not official. It is a fan website that provides news coverage of MMA. An official ranking system for MMA does not exist, therefore anything on Sherdog's website is the opinion of one of the hundred authors they have.

Considering Rashad Evans is a high ranking heavyweight fighter we can assume there is a large flaw in this system. Especially that Rashad Evans isn't even a HW fighter.

[Chett]

Well since you don't know how the numbers were put together that is an assumption.

And BTW, Sherdog is not official. It is a fan website that provides news coverage of MMA. An official ranking system for MMA does not exist, therefore anything on Sherdog's website is the opinion of one of the hundred authors they have.

Considering Rashad Evans is a high ranking heavyweight fighter we can assume there is a large flaw in this system. Especially that Rashad Evans isn't even a HW fighter.

rashad evans weight is 225


i put official in quotations because it is the closest thing to official i can find, but it is not official in the sense that it is put out by an MMA organization or something

[Ichez]

the hands-down most dominant is the one that beat every one and never lost to anyone and thats Fedor

[Greg1983]

so you have a master? what are you, some kind of sexual butt rape slave?

and as i said many times before, as you ****ing dumb morons dont seem to understand, THESE STATISTICS ARE NOT NECESSARILY CORRESPONDING WITH REALITY. how many times have i said that fedor is number 1? cro cop is only number 1 according to STATISTICS. and the variables on a record arent a huge amount either, and its fully plausible that they are used. cro cops recent performance has been much better then it has been in the past, and saying hes number 1 regardless of statistics would even be plausible. and anyone that uses ">" is just an idiot. you guys need to take reading comprehension classes, since you dont understand ****. i have posted all i can post when it comes to the formula they use, and if you arent a dumb **** then you would realize that. but once again, you seem to have reading comprehension issues. i actually have some substance to what im saying, all you have is your opinions.

sit down and shut up? oh ho! what a witty retort from such a master orator! lawl just kidding, that line is for ƒags.

Dude you really are a dumb piece of ****. Thanks for the neg by the way; luckily your rep power is ever more pathetic than mine.

And are you making fun of me because I'm working on my Master's? I don't even know where to start there. Sorry for being educated and (fingers crossed) successful financially in the future. I'll try to explain this to you one more time.

You are saying that Crocop is statistically the number one fighter in the world. I am disagreeing by questioning your model (which you don't even know all that much about).

You are saying that it takes into account every possible variable, but that is far from correct. Variables not taken into account are how much sleep they got the night before all their fights, **** that was going on in their personal lives, what they had for dinner the night before, etc. So the claim that every variable is taken into account is ludicrous, as there is an infitinite number.

Now I will present my statistical model as to why I feel Fedor is better. Fedor has beaten Crocop. Crocop has never beated anybody who has beaten Fedor. Fedor has beaten guys who have beaten Crocop.

My model may or may not be better than Sherdog's. But you said in your first post in this thread:

lol cro cop was inches away from beating nogueira. saying hes at number 3 is just retarded, nogueira lost to the guy that cro cop has beaten 3 times now, lol

crocops fight against noguiera was a long time ago, and now almost everyone but some brazilian nut huggers would agree that cro cop would win.

cro cop is also statistically the number 1 heavyweight in the world at this time.

You COULD have said "A writer on Sherdog has come up with a model that shows Crocop as being a better fighter than Fedor statistically. Discuss." or something along those lines. However, you acted as though this is cold hard fact and anyone who disagrees with it is retarded.

Now shut the fuck up and realize that everyone in this thread thinks you're an idiot for a reason. It's true.

[Chett]

Dude you really are a dumb piece of ****. Thanks for the neg by the way; luckily your rep power is ever more pathetic than mine.

And are you making fun of me because I'm working on my Master's? I don't even know where to start there. Sorry for being educated and (fingers crossed) successful financially in the future. I'll try to explain this to you one more time.

You are saying that Crocop is statistically the number one fighter in the world. I am disagreeing by questioning your model (which you don't even know all that much about).

You are saying that it takes into account every possible variable, but that is far from correct. Variables not taken into account are how much sleep they got the night before all their fights, **** that was going on in their personal lives, what they had for dinner the night before, etc. So the claim that every variable is taken into account is ludicrous, as there is an infitinite number.

Now I will present my statistical model as to why I feel Fedor is better. Fedor has beaten Crocop. Crocop has never beated anybody who has beaten Fedor. Fedor has beaten guys who have beaten Crocop.

My model may or may not be better than Sherdog's. But you said in your first post in this thread:



You COULD have said "A writer on Sherdog has come up with a model that shows Crocop as being a better fighter than Fedor statistically. Discuss." or something along those lines. However, you acted as though this is cold hard fact and anyone who disagrees with it is retarded.

Now shut the fuck up and realize that everyone in this thread thinks you're an idiot for a reason. It's true.

yes well you negged me as well, and i neg the people who neg me in return, and i make sure to add insulting comments to them when they add insulting comments. but im guessing that i struck a nerve? you come here, all angry going " DUDE YOU ARE REALLY A DUMB PIECE OF ****" so im guessing my attempt to insult worked then.

so i know very little about "my model" while you know even less and seem to act as if you know something? lawl

as i said, it takes into account every variable on a fighters record. and once again, i think you have problems with your reading comprehension. if you think that saying every possible variable is referring to every possible variable in the world including what you ate or how long you slept or whatever, you are an idiot.

and yes, according to the only pure statistical record keeper that is on a reputable site, cro cop is the statistical number 1 fighter, thanks for reminding me.

so because everyone thinks your an idiot means something? the majority of the people who have posted against me seem to be pushing some idea of " YOU THINK CRO COP IS NUMBER 1 REGARDLESS OF STATISTICS *******" on me, and obviously have no skill in regards to reading comprehension, (you are one of these people)

and once again with the stupid " ILL ADD THIS LITTLE WITTY INSULT AT THE END HERE AS ICING ON THE CAKE, HEE HEE HEE!" type comment at the end there, well i think that you are a moron and that you have no idea what you are talking about, and you have not proved me wrong about anything. you are just basing your insults to "my model" on opinions. statistical information is not the same as opinionated information.

[delta9]

get'em Chett!! get'em!! get'em!!!! good!!!! hahaha

[Greg1983]

yes well you negged me as well, and i neg the people who neg me in return, and i make sure to add insulting comments to them when they add insulting comments. but im guessing that i struck a nerve? you come here, all angry going " DUDE YOU ARE REALLY A DUMB PIECE OF ****" so im guessing my attempt to insult worked then.

so i know very little about "my model" while you know even less and seem to act as if you know something? lawl

as i said, it takes into account every variable on a fighters record. and once again, i think you have problems with your reading comprehension. if you think that saying every possible variable is referring to every possible variable in the world including what you ate or how long you slept or whatever, you are an idiot.

and yes, according to the only pure statistical record keeper that is on a reputable site, cro cop is the statistical number 1 fighter, thanks for reminding me.

so because everyone thinks your an idiot means something? the majority of the people who have posted against me seem to be pushing some idea of " YOU THINK CRO COP IS NUMBER 1 REGARDLESS OF STATISTICS *******" on me, and obviously have no skill in regards to reading comprehension, (you are one of these people)

and once again with the stupid " ILL ADD THIS LITTLE WITTY INSULT AT THE END HERE AS ICING ON THE CAKE, HEE HEE HEE!" type comment at the end there, well i think that you are a moron and that you have no idea what you are talking about, and you have not proved me wrong about anything. you are just basing your insults to "my model" on opinions. statistical information is not the same as opinionated information.

The onus is not on me to defend your model. It is on you. Tard.

[Chett]

The onus is not on me to defend your model. It is on you. Tard.

lawl, i have defended it thus far.

[Greg1983]

lawl, i have defended it thus far.

How? I would like to know the weights on the variables.

You say that a win over a fighter on a winning streak has more impact than a win over a fighter not on one. By how much?

You know nothing other than a vague outline of the Sherdog model. So quit preaching it as fact.

[Chett]

is it necessary to know everything about how the points are scored? i have been "given" a basic outline of how the rankings are made. i really do not have that much interest in this to pursue it to the point of emailing sherdog and asking for how they exactly calculate this, if you do then fine.

just as i dont have that much interest in pursuing this "argument" if you could call it that, further, since its just going to be the same stuff reiterated repeatedly.

[Greg1983]

is it necessary to know everything about how the points are scored? i have been "given" a basic outline of how the rankings are made. i really do not have that much interest in this to pursue it to the point of emailing sherdog and asking for how they exactly calculate this, if you do then fine.

Actually if you want to say that anyone who disagrees with it is wrong, then you had damn well better know how it was calculated and the reasoning behind it. Ie. have some PROOF. Otherwise, it is just one theory out there and you should accept that it may or may not be the best way of coming up with statistical rankings.

[Chett]

i posted what i know of the calculations, and nobody has really disproved the model.

[Kansas]

i posted what i know of the calculations, and nobody has really disproved the model.

Chett, this model also has Rashad Evans as the 6th best heavyweight, and Chris Leben as the 4th best middleweight, how can we put much faith into this ranking system?

I mean I am one who obviously thinks this ranking system is seriously flawed, but I also understand where you are coming from with all this. It wasn't you who came up with this system, you are just reporting what sherdog came up with.

But really, you have said yourself that Fedor is the "real" number one, so how can you defend a ranking system like this that has Cro-Cop an overwhelming number one, when most of the knowledgable MMA fan's would agree that Fedor is the obvious number 1.

I know that these guys at sherdog tried to come up with a totally unbiased system to rank these fighters, and that is a good idea, but there are so many problems with the rankings, I believe they need to rethink what kind of information they feed into the computers.

[Chett]

Chett, this model also has Rashad Evans as the 6th best heavyweight, and Chris Leben as the 4th best middleweight, how can we put much faith into this ranking system?

I mean I am one who obviously thinks this ranking system is seriously flawed, but I also understand where you are coming from with all this. It wasn't you who came up with this system, you are just reporting what sherdog came up with.

But really, you have said yourself that Fedor is the "real" number one, so how can you defend a ranking system like this that has Cro-Cop an overwhelming number one, when most of the knowledgable MMA fan's would agree that Fedor is the obvious number 1.

I know that these guys at sherdog tried to come up with a totally unbiased system to rank these fighters, and that is a good idea, but there are so many problems with the rankings, I believe they need to rethink what kind of information they feed into the computers.

its based on purely statistical information, and as said before doesnt necessarily correspond with reality

[Kansas]

its based on purely statistical information, and as said before doesnt necessarily correspond with reality

Yeah, I mean seriously, I understand where you are coming from, and I understand that although you are defending yourself, you yourself don't necessarily agree with the rankings.

But after it's all said and done, I know they say the rankings don't necessarily correspond with reality, then why did they even do them? (rhetorical question, I know you don't know the answer)

[smokeater]

rashad evans weight is 225


i put official in quotations because it is the closest thing to official i can find, but it is not official in the sense that it is put out by an MMA organization or something

What does Rashad Evans' weight have to do with anything? The only heavyweight fight he has on his record is the TUF final against Brad Imes. Other than that he has never competed as a heavyweight in a professional, sanctioned fight. 1 HW fight (against a guy with a year of MMA experience and 3 career fights) and he gets #6?

If we are going by walking weight then we'd better reconsider a lot of guys here. Tito Ortiz, Chuck Liddell, Wanderlei Silva, Shogun, etc all walk around much heavier than their fighting weight. This is more than enough to disprove the model, they can't even get fighter's weight categories right.

Maybe you want to blindly accept rankings that are clearly flawed, which it's obvious that you do. Statistics are facts that cannot be disputed, they are facts of life. These rankings are based on SOME factors, not all factors as you'd like to believe. Who gives a **** if a fighter beats another fighter who is on a winning streak. Mirko got the beaten in every aspect of the sport by Fedor just 18 months ago, where is that taken into consideration? What about the fact that Mirko's recent wins in the Grand Prix were not in the heavyweight division, but the open weight division, where is that taken into consideration? Also where are the factors that compensate for differences between the major organizations, Pride and the UFC? All educated fans know that certain types of fighters can succeed in one and get mauled in the other. As well as basic rule differences. There are probably 100 or so things to consider when ranking fighters. This system takes about 3 into account. This system is incomplete at best. Incomplete means inaccurate.

Crocop is the statistically #1 fighter only when you ignore many important factors. Same goes for all the other rankings.

[Chett]

What does Rashad Evans' weight have to do with anything? The only heavyweight fight he has on his record is the TUF final against Brad Imes. Other than that he has never competed as a heavyweight in a professional, sanctioned fight. 1 HW fight (against a guy with a year of MMA experience and 3 career fights) and he gets #6?

If we are going by walking weight then we'd better reconsider a lot of guys here. Tito Ortiz, Chuck Liddell, Wanderlei Silva, Shogun, etc all walk around much heavier than their fighting weight. This is more than enough to disprove the model, they can't even get fighter's weight categories right.

Maybe you want to blindly accept rankings that are clearly flawed, which it's obvious that you do. Statistics are facts that cannot be disputed, they are facts of life. These rankings are based on SOME factors, not all factors as you'd like to believe. Who gives a **** if a fighter beats another fighter who is on a winning streak. Mirko got the beaten in every aspect of the sport by Fedor just 18 months ago, where is that taken into consideration? What about the fact that Mirko's recent wins in the Grand Prix were not in the heavyweight division, but the open weight division, where is that taken into consideration? Also where are the factors that compensate for differences between the major organizations, Pride and the UFC? All educated fans know that certain types of fighters can succeed in one and get mauled in the other. As well as basic rule differences. There are probably 100 or so things to consider when ranking fighters. This system takes about 3 into account. This system is incomplete at best. Incomplete means inaccurate.

Crocop is the statistically #1 fighter only when you ignore many important factors. Same goes for all the other rankings.

except did you read at the top of the heavyweight rankings that it said "CURRENT HEAVYWEIGHT RANKINGS (205 - 265 lbs)"

although 205 is generally not considered heavyweight, it explains why rashad evans would be there.

and once again, the reading comprehension issues continue, and none of you take into account that the rankings itself say " THIS MAY OR MAY NOT CORRESPOND WITH REALITY." it is an unbiased ranking system, and you are just critisizing it based on personal opinions.

[HulkHagen]

Technically HW is 206-265. 205 is LHW, and unless it's a title fight, you can fight at LHW at 206 as well.

[smokeater]

except did you read at the top of the heavyweight rankings that it said "CURRENT HEAVYWEIGHT RANKINGS (205 - 265 lbs)"

although 205 is generally not considered heavyweight, it explains why rashad evans would be there.

and once again, the reading comprehension issues continue, and none of you take into account that the rankings itself say " THIS MAY OR MAY NOT CORRESPOND WITH REALITY." it is an unbiased ranking system, and you are just critisizing it based on personal opinions.

Well then Sherdog has made a few mistakes in their "statistics". It is widely known that all the LHW fighters I mentioned walk around much heavier than 205. Chuck and Tito both walk around at 220. I'm not sure about Silva but he's heavier than his fighting weight too. Not to mention probably every single LW, WW, MW, and LHW fighter in the UFC walks around heavier than their fighting weight. I haven't taken exact numbers but probably 50% of the ranked fighters are in the wrong weight categories. If they can't get the weight categories right, why should we think they got anything else right either?

If it doesn't correspond with reality then it's not a statistic. Statistics are not debatable.

[Chett]

so your telling me that statistics are the end-all? lawl, why are you arguing with me then?

[smokeater]

so your telling me that statistics are the end-all? lawl, why are you arguing with me then?

Absolutely not. I am simply pointing out that the "statistics" you keep referring to are simply opinions turned into point systems. I don't think beating a guy with a winning streak is relevant at all to how somebody should be ranked. BJ Penn is on a losing streak, at the hands of the two best WW's in the world. Diego Sanchez is on a major winning streak because he's been fed mostly jobbers. Most intelligent fans don't consider Diego in the same league as BJ. yet if somebody beat BJ they wouldn't get as many points as if they beat Diego. This point system uses factors that some individuals feel is relevant, therefore it is their OPINION and not statistic or fact.

The only unbiased statistics in MMA are wins and losses. And even they can be called into question because they are not a true indication of somebody's skill. Randy Couture is a great example. If one were to look at his record they'd think he was a terrible fighter. But when you look at the fact that all but 1 of his losses were to Champions, it changes things.

The authors behind these "statistics" even said that they don't correspond to reality. What is the point of having them then? Why not just make up random numbers of what we think fighters should have? I'm sure I could come up with a ranking system, awarding points as I see fit, and they'd be totally different from another MMA fan who did the same. They would be numbers given based on opinion, not statistics. You cannot debate statistics.

[Chett]

Absolutely not. I am simply pointing out that the "statistics" you keep referring to are simply opinions turned into point systems. I don't think beating a guy with a winning streak is relevant at all to how somebody should be ranked. BJ Penn is on a losing streak, at the hands of the two best WW's in the world. Diego Sanchez is on a major winning streak because he's been fed mostly jobbers. Most intelligent fans don't consider Diego in the same league as BJ. yet if somebody beat BJ they wouldn't get as many points as if they beat Diego. This point system uses factors that some individuals feel is relevant, therefore it is their OPINION and not statistic or fact.

The only unbiased statistics in MMA are wins and losses. And even they can be called into question because they are not a true indication of somebody's skill. Randy Couture is a great example. If one were to look at his record they'd think he was a terrible fighter. But when you look at the fact that all but 1 of his losses were to Champions, it changes things.

The authors behind these "statistics" even said that they don't correspond to reality. What is the point of having them then? Why not just make up random numbers of what we think fighters should have? I'm sure I could come up with a ranking system, awarding points as I see fit, and they'd be totally different from another MMA fan who did the same. They would be numbers given based on opinion, not statistics. You cannot debate statistics.

well if you put it that way, then everything is an opinion. if a fighter loses by decision, then they didnt really lose because it was just the judges opinion and therefore not valid, right?

[smokeater]

well if you put it that way, then everything is an opinion. if a fighter loses by decision, then they didnt really lose because it was just the judges opinion and therefore not valid, right?

Yep. The judges have a scoring system that they go by, and is subject to individual opinion, which is why we have split decisions sometimes. You and I can watch the same fight and see two different outcomes. How many people think BJ beat GSP? Many last time I checked.

I wouldn't say that judges opinions are not valid, because they incorporate all aspects of the fight in their decision, not just a few selected areas. Judges are assigned to score the outcome of the fight so their opinion is very valid (except for Cecil Peoples from the UFC, lol). A decison will always be based on opinion. However it is supposed to be the most educated opinion there could be. Most fights are judged well and tough to debate. So the judges opinions are very valid. If the judges were random people on the internet, we might be having another discussion.

[toolio]

until crocop beats fedor, he will always be 2nd place.. NON-statistically speaking which is what people care about.