Is RAW Ratings Better Now W/O Trips?

[IronTank]

Oh in Canada WWE is number one? Well, in Germany, David Hasselhoff is one of the biggest pop stars ever, so lets start promoting him in the US.....son, the US market is the only one WWE really cares about. They turn to foriegn soil when the chips are down because they have been so starved of wwe, they will devour any crap the wwe produces. Now I know you probably believe everything Vince and HHH and the WWE say, so you probably buy that crap that those markets are super important to wwe. So why only turn to them when ratings in the states get so bad?

I'm sure the WWE doesn't care about the Candaian market. Especially when Vince sees the US and Canadian market as one. Dued, the WWE have been comming to Canada for years, even when the WWE was at the top. So ya, they must come to us when ratins in the US are bad.

Also, what show does just about every wrestling fan want to see, even if the current product sucks? Thats right champ, Wrestlemania. If the buyrates for that indicated the overall health of the product, wwe would be breaking records for tv and house show attendence and ratings, not barely managing to scrape along and loosing $10 million profit in under a year....but of course your not going to see this. Your blind devotion to HHH won't allow you to.

Explain to me why this year's was so high, compared to other years? This year had some good matches, and a main event that was promoted perfectly.

Wrestlemania will say well regardless of who is in the main event. To give HHH all the credit for the good buyrates is ridicolous.

Notice how I sad Batista and HHH.

[Gradman]

that's brilliant, considering all of you here are on batiata's nut sack. grandma has great vocabulary but it's not enougfh rto hide his weak points and fanboyish. randy to me was decent in his promos. sure, he made some erriors there and there but who doesnt? he';s much better in the ring that he was before, again i will refer ypu to his match at wrestlemania. his finisher the rko looks great and is done much vbetter than the batista bomb which i cringe every time i see because it's done so bad it could easily lead to an injury.

Randy did get a bit better in the ring, and yes, his match at WM was pretty good. And by the heuristic i usually use when watching a randy match, that means "thank goodness nothing went wrong and the english language wasn't hurt". But to say he was decent in his promos is not only being polite, it's lying. Lying politely. Far too politely. Randy SUCKED on the mic. Not your average kind of suck.... we're talking Lita levels of suck (sorry kanefan ). There was a stretch of time where he didn't get through ONE promo without a stupid mistake, and the greatest mistakes were absolute mindblowers. So much of Randy's failure to catch on as a heel or a face came from the fact that nobody could connect with him just on the simple fact that every time he spoke, stupidity was sure to follow. It wasn't once or twice, it was EVERY WEEK. EVERY WEEK.... he made mistakes.... EVERY WEEK he was a victim, a victim on the long list of victims perpetrated in the future... but he wasn't afraid. He WASN"T.... AFRAID. Because he is the legend killer... the legend killer who will be the past and the present of the future world tag team heavyweight champions of W...C....W!!!!!!

now was that me or did randy steal my keyboard

i love how grandman says it's wwe fault for killing batista's character. face it, when you're champ , muttering sentences every now and then just isn't gonna work.

Erm.... you do realise bookers have control of a show? Batista doesn't show up and think "well i think i'll hang back here and do absolutely nothing till the last two minutes of the show then powerbomb someone without saying anything... yeah that'll light the world". The simple fact is this. Batista's popularity emerged because he infused his character with his real life self. In backstage promos that weren't written for him, he shined, and the audience caught on. Seeing this, and seeing how badly Project Randy was tanking despite giving him all the spotlight they could, they changed their plans to project Batista. Sure enough, it took off, but the ingredients that made him successful weren't something creative could emulate and write, so instead of letting Batista do what he's good at, they just don't let him do anything at all in the hopes that he can skate on his popularity and good will. THAT is how creative killed his character. Yes, he has said he gets nervous speaking in front of huge crowds, but how is he gonna get better unless they give him the chance? They just don't, and their lack of faith in him shows. YET, they handed the mic to Randy every week in the hope he might string an actual sentence together and not make an idiot out of himself during his monster push. See the difference? Randy given the chance and failed? Yes. Batista given the chance? No. Failed? No.

like i said, he may have the words but his points are weak and fanboyish. point is it wasn't randy orton's fault. it was bad booking. he was heel for 8 months, turned a face overnight and the next ppv lost the belt. how in the hell was he supposed to work after that? he didn't even get a chance.

Weak and fanboyish? I could say exactly the same for your points, only difference is I've offered up actual backing for mine and you've given nothing but opinions.

You got a bit closer with one of your sentences, but it should have been "it wasn't ENTIRELY Randy's fault". Because yes, booking failed him, but not in the same way they are failing Batista. They failed him by seeing something in him that wasn't there. That's not to say it WON'T be in time, but at that place and time Randy wasn't ready for the push they gave him, and he wasn't up to being the character they wanted him to be. They wanted him to be the new Austin and Rock in one character. The booked him as a superman who couldn't be stopped, when it just made no sense to do so. Realistically, it wasn't believable that he could be at that level, and one of the hugest blunders was having him go over Benoit clean after he beat both HBK and HHH twice.

BUT, that said, Randy's inabilities were always the problem. He shouldn't have gotten the push, but to think someone could tank that badly with a push that concerted is hard to believe, unless you're Lex Luger. And he tanked because he couldn't do what he was handed. He couldn't make his character seem believable because his promos were absolutely shocking, and when they actually made sense, they were so forced and "actor-y" they were unbelievable. Randy lacked the comfortability and ability to seem natural in his work that Batista has, and all the other top-tier guys have, and THAT'S why he tanked.

If you want to dispute this, actually dispute it. Don't call it weak and fanboyish without actually offering why. Otherwise don't bother.

[phundi]

Randy did get a bit better in the ring, and yes, his match at WM was pretty good. And by the heuristic i usually use when watching a randy match, that means "thank goodness nothing went wrong and the english language wasn't hurt". But to say he was decent in his promos is not only being polite, it's lying. Lying politely. Far too politely. Randy SUCKED on the mic. Not your average kind of suck.... we're talking Lita levels of suck (sorry kanefan ). There was a stretch of time where he didn't get through ONE promo without a stupid mistake, and the greatest mistakes were absolute mindblowers. So much of Randy's failure to catch on as a heel or a face came from the fact that nobody could connect with him just on the simple fact that every time he spoke, stupidity was sure to follow. It wasn't once or twice, it was EVERY WEEK. EVERY WEEK.... he made mistakes.... EVERY WEEK he was a victim, a victim on the long list of victims perpetrated in the future... but he wasn't afraid. He WASN"T.... AFRAID. Because he is the legend killer... the legend killer who will be the past and the present of the future world tag team heavyweight champions of W...C....W!!!!!!

now was that me or did randy steal my keyboard



Erm.... you do realise bookers have control of a show? Batista doesn't show up and think "well i think i'll hang back here and do absolutely nothing till the last two minutes of the show then powerbomb someone without saying anything... yeah that'll light the world". The simple fact is this. Batista's popularity emerged because he infused his character with his real life self. In backstage promos that weren't written for him, he shined, and the audience caught on. Seeing this, and seeing how badly Project Randy was tanking despite giving him all the spotlight they could, they changed their plans to project Batista. Sure enough, it took off, but the ingredients that made him successful weren't something creative could emulate and write, so instead of letting Batista do what he's good at, they just don't let him do anything at all in the hopes that he can skate on his popularity and good will. THAT is how creative killed his character. Yes, he has said he gets nervous speaking in front of huge crowds, but how is he gonna get better unless they give him the chance? They just don't, and their lack of faith in him shows. YET, they handed the mic to Randy every week in the hope he might string an actual sentence together and not make an idiot out of himself during his monster push. See the difference? Randy given the chance and failed? Yes. Batista given the chance? No. Failed? No.



Weak and fanboyish? I could say exactly the same for your points, only difference is I've offered up actual backing for mine and you've given nothing but opinions.

You got a bit closer with one of your sentences, but it should have been "it wasn't ENTIRELY Randy's fault". Because yes, booking failed him, but not in the same way they are failing Batista. They failed him by seeing something in him that wasn't there. That's not to say it WON'T be in time, but at that place and time Randy wasn't ready for the push they gave him, and he wasn't up to being the character they wanted him to be. They wanted him to be the new Austin and Rock in one character. The booked him as a superman who couldn't be stopped, when it just made no sense to do so. Realistically, it wasn't believable that he could be at that level, and one of the hugest blunders was having him go over Benoit clean after he beat both HBK and HHH twice.

BUT, that said, Randy's inabilities were always the problem. He shouldn't have gotten the push, but to think someone could tank that badly with a push that concerted is hard to believe, unless you're Lex Luger. And he tanked because he couldn't do what he was handed. He couldn't make his character seem believable because his promos were absolutely shocking, and when they actually made sense, they were so forced and "actor-y" they were unbelievable. Randy lacked the comfortability and ability to seem natural in his work that Batista has, and all the other top-tier guys have, and THAT'S why he tanked.

If you want to dispute this, actually dispute it. Don't call it weak and fanboyish without actually offering why. Otherwise don't bother.

too long...cliffnotes pls

btw, randy pandy sucks

[Gradman]

too long...cliffnotes pls

btw, randy pandy sucks

haha

err cliffnotes... Randy failed, Batista didn't. And the whole post says why. I can't shorten it

[MR.RAMSEY]

haha

err cliffnotes... Randy failed, Batista didn't. And the whole post says why. I can't shorten it

Bump!

[HardGainer82]

too long...cliffnotes pls

btw, randy pandy sucks

That post was worth reading...come on man, it's not that long. How do people get through school when they can't read one page? Nothing personal, phundi, I've just noticed this a lot.

[HardGainer82]

Did you just pull a usual HardGainer82 turtle or what??? You think Eddie and Y2J get's crowd reaction?? Yeah.... as much as someone like Masters does.

Your turtle **** is getting pretty lame. If you're just trying to piss me off, try harder. If you actually think that they DON'T get crowd reactions, you're beyond any sort of help I can provide. I'd suggest a Miracle Ear... I mean, saying "no, they don't" really isn't much of an argument. Jericho's reaction has dropped off slightly due to the ****ty heel booking they give him, but his face reaction was one of the loudest on the roster, and he still gets a lot of noise out of the crowd. We'll take a poll on Monday, and hopefully you'll stop jumping on me like I banged your mom or something...

[Peepster]

Your turtle **** is getting pretty lame. If you're just trying to piss me off, try harder. If you actually think that they DON'T get crowd reactions, you're beyond any sort of help I can provide. I'd suggest a Miracle Ear... I mean, saying "no, they don't" really isn't much of an argument. Jericho's reaction has dropped off slightly due to the ****ty heel booking they give him, but his face reaction was one of the loudest on the roster, and he still gets a lot of noise out of the crowd. We'll take a poll on Monday, and hopefully you'll stop jumping on me like I banged your mom or something...

Banged my mom? She is dead... Nice low blow. you show your true colors, YELLOW.

Nobody is saying Jericho didn't used to get a good pop when he was a face... but we are talking about NOW. Now as a heel the crowd is dead when he comes out.... Hardly any cheers or boo's....

Same with Eddie.

[HardGainer82]

Banged my mom? She is dead... Nice low blow. you show your true colors, YELLOW.

Nobody is saying Jericho didn't used to get a good pop when he was a face... but we are talking about NOW. Now as a heel the crowd is dead when he comes out.... Hardly any cheers or boo's....

Same with Eddie.

Yellow means coward...I don't see how I did anything that makes me look scared. Care to explain that one? I was simply using a metaphor to explain the situation. In reality, I have no idea what bug suddenly crawled up your ass and made you decide to start jumping on my posts. If your mom is actually dead, I'm sorry. But it's the internet, so don't expect people to know your life story ahead of time.

As for Jericho...we will see on Monday.

[chisle94]

What about the weekly crappy rating? The HUGE decline in house show attendence? The generally poor PPV buy rates? Slumps in merchandise? Coincidence?

Wrestlemania 21 sold on its name. EVERY wrestlemania has a huge buy rate, so Im not buying that HHH did that at all.

The crappy ratings, huge decline in house show attendance, generally poor ppv buy rates, and slumps in merchandice are because half of the product sucks... The writers can't think of anything better then "thinking" to use the exact same storylines they used 3 years ago. Honestly, the only good storyline as of late has been the entire batista - triple H storyline. Yes, we all knew what was going to happen, bjut they made it so well, and reminded you that they can make good storylines.

Triple H is in the position that he is because like his old catch phrase, he is that damn good. Look at his matches... Benoit, Michaels, Rocky, Austin, Angle, Foley, Batista, hell he even made Kevin Nash look good in the match (Not a personal shot on Kev) but all of these have been good matches. Were the matches between Batista good at WM & Backlash good? No... but at Vengeance, it was played off real well, but the point is, when triple H does wrestle, he busts his ass, and makes himself alon with his opponent come off well. 2000 was no doubt HIS year. 2001 was also a very good one until May.

The man busted his ass for 8 months trying to get back - which he was the first to return from such an injury. He tore the ****ing muscle off his bone and he still finished the match which included a WOJ on the Announcers table. IMO, he deserves EVERYTHING he gets. He busted his ass for years, and hell, if the entire MSG thing hadn't happened, he probably would have had 2 more reigns under his belt. Everyone is so quick to judge Triple H because he was attracted to Stephanie and eventually married. What a lot of people don't know is that Vince actually stopped the relationship the first go around... He won 2 titles when he barely knew her, and they got into the relationship and Vince broke it up for a year... He hel;d the title at least 2 more times during that span - and then Vince gave the okay... By this time, he was AT LEAST a 4 time Worlds Champ - something a lot of people can't claim... And they got married.

Sure I hate that he cuts promos every week and DOESN"T wrestle unless it's a tag match or something. But triple H is known to when he puts on a match, he puts his heart and soul into it. Taped show or not. House show or not. pay per view or not. Triple H deserves every world title reign that he has. Lkike he said himself, "They(The Internet) make it seem that I'm the only one that's "sitting in" into the meetings. The Wrestler's are allowed to go into the meetings and give their suggestions, but at the end of the day, it's Vince's call." Mcmahon has shot down many a suggestion that Triple H has mentioned to him. Family or not.

Everyone that give him respect; Angle, Rocky, UT, Edge, Hogan, Austin, Regal - these have all said he deserves everything he's gotten... except for all the hate. It still pisses me off that when they post "backstage updates on triple's rep" and they say "One source says..." but they don't give his name... Yes, if his name got out, there's a good chance he'd be canned, but what happened to being a man? Maybe instead of complaining to the people who write **** on wrestling sites, he should be STUDYING people like Triple H - and in 6 months, he'd be in a different position - And it wouldn't be on the unemployment line for 90 days...

[IronTank]

Brilliant man. ^

[chisle94]

Brilliant man. ^

Thanks. It had to be said. And it's good that someone took the time to read that... I always hate it when I write out a whole damn long post and no one reads it, and doesn't comment my "work".

[IronTank]

Thanks. It had to be said. And it's good that someone took the time to read that... I always hate it when I write out a whole damn long post and no one reads it, and doesn't comment my "work".

Yep. I didn't even know, Steph and HHH were apart for that long. I thought they were maybe apart for a few months. I love the comment Taker makes when HHH asked him about the situation with him and Steph. Taker said, "Screw everybody else. You gotta do whats right for you and whats right in your heart." Classic Taker.

[chisle94]

Yep. I didn't even know, Steph and HHH were apart for that long. I thought they were maybe apart for a few months. I love the comment Taker makes when HHH asked him about the situation with him and Steph. Taker said, "Screw everybody else. You gotta do whats right for you and whats right in your heart." Classic Taker.

You didn't read the Game's book? You out of all people? wow... You need to get on that, my man.

Yeah, I love his comment on the DVD too: If I were to uhhh, start my own federation... right after I ink down the Undertakers name... triple H would be 2nd on my list *snorts* ... I have no problem saying he is the Game, cause he is... and uhh, *snorts once more* I don't throw praise around lightly.

[phundi]

That post was worth reading...come on man, it's not that long. How do people get through school when they can't read one page? Nothing personal, phundi, I've just noticed this a lot.

hehe, i didnt mean to have a go at him...but i read heaps at uni, and at times, i cant be bothered reading no more... but ill go back and read it now

[HardGainer82]

hehe, i didnt mean to have a go at him...but i read heaps at uni, and at times, i cant be bothered reading no more... but ill go back and read it now

lol no worries bro. I just thought it was a really good post. I got sick of reading sometimes at school too...

[ironmaiden01]

lol no worries bro. I just thought it was a really good post. I got sick of reading sometimes at school too...

it took me less than a minute to read that, there's no excuses.

grandman, i'm tired of brining up the same points over and over because you can't read them/. look, randy was heel for 8 months, turned face overnight and was robbed out of the belt the next month. how in the blkue hell was he supposed to recover from that? anser that.

[ironmaiden01]

haha

err cliffnotes... Randy failed, Batista didn't. And the whole post says why. I can't shorten it

because he was given the slow push randy should have had. i'm gettin annoyed of your fanboyish posts.

[ironmaiden01]

too long...cliffnotes pls

btw, randy pandy sucks

you suck.

[reignoffire]

it took me less than a minute to read that, there's no excuses.

grandman, i'm tired of brining up the same points over and over because you can't read them/. look, randy was heel for 8 months, turned face overnight and was robbed out of the belt the next month. how in the blkue hell was he supposed to recover from that? anser that.

He couldn't. But you can't explain that to some people here. I am not an Orton fan by any means, but that killed off pretty much all the buzz he had with the audience, and hurt his career, no doubt.

[reignoffire]

I'm sure the WWE doesn't care about the Candaian market. Especially when Vince sees the US and Canadian market as one. Dued, the WWE have been comming to Canada for years, even when the WWE was at the top. So ya, they must come to us when ratins in the US are bad.



Explain to me why this year's was so high, compared to other years? This year had some good matches, and a main event that was promoted perfectly.



Notice how I sad Batista and HHH.

See? Your buying that crap about one market. I can't believe the naiveity of some of you people, I really cant. I thought we were supposed to be knowledgeable and somewhat smart about the industry here. Some of you truly shock me. If Vince wanted to sell you a solar powered torch you would buy it in a second, I bet.

Oh so that explains why Batista and HHH drew HUGE buy rates for the rematches? *Sarcasm, because you would probably miss it otherwise*.
The same match got mediocre drawing rates on lesser PPVs, on which they were pretty much the lone highlight. If WM suceeded mainly because of them, then they should have had as good box office with rematches, particularly the hell in a cell. But they didn't. Bang goes that theory.

[ironmaiden01]

He couldn't. But you can't explain that to some people here.

true that and i don't know one single smark that ordered/went to wrestlemania for triple h versus ratista. the reason wrestlemania this year did so great was because of the hype again, each year it's gonna be one more wrestlemania and will sell more tickets.

[Gradman]

it took me less than a minute to read that, there's no excuses.

It took you less than a minute to read.... and yet you once again fail to debate even one point I made, shocking. Could there be a reason??

grandman, i'm tired of brining up the same points over and over because you can't read them/. look, randy was heel for 8 months, turned face overnight and was robbed out of the belt the next month. how in the blkue hell was he supposed to recover from that? anser that.

Woops, you made a mistake, let me fix that for you. You meant to say, "I'm tired of bringing up the same point".

And you're one point has no grounding. Randy was *not* turned overnight. Yes, the face turn happened after he got the belt, but his ENTIRE booking during that invincible heel period from the start of the year onwards was booking with a mind to turn him face. Any self respecting fan should have seen EXACTLY what they were doing. You don't give someone a run like that if you're not planning on them being your next bankable babyface star. From the moment Randy won that battle royale, it was painfully obvious he was getting the title at SS. It was also painfully obvious the face turn was going to happen. The only semblance of hope was that HHH would turn face and Randy might lead evolution as a heel, because honestly, he MIGHT have worked out if he'd had the backing of Ric Flair, because he didn't have what it took to do it on his own. That's not to say it wouldn't have flopped, but while Randy has a habit of throwing lemons around, Ric does like to make lemonade.

Anyhoo, point is, you have no point. You've got a few huge posts from me filled with why Batista succeeded and Randy didn't and you haven't debated one of those points yet.

But in your own words, I just "ansered that".

i'm gettin annoyed of your fanboyish posts.

The ironing is delicious

[ironmaiden01]

it took ytou forever to answer and it still sucks. we both like different wrestlers but obviously i'm right and you're wrong.

[HardGainer82]

it took ytou forever to answer and it still sucks. we both like different wrestlers but obviously i'm right and you're wrong.

*coughdifferingopinionscough*

[Gradman]

it took ytou forever to answer and it still sucks. we both like different wrestlers but obviously i'm right and you're wrong.

It took me a while cos i don't come here everyday

Yes we both like different wrestlers, but having a crack at me cos i slaughtered you three times and you STILL don't have a response won't make it any different. You can't debate, you don't have a point. Move on.

[ironmaiden01]

i use facts, you use your opinion. until you answer this damned post, don't come back here again.

grandman, i'm tired of brining up the same points over and over because you can't read them/. look, randy was heel for 8 months, turned face overnight and was robbed out of the belt the next month. how in the blkue hell was he supposed to recover from that? anser that.

[Gradman]

i use facts, you use your opinion. until you answer this damned post, don't come back here again.

erm.... i haven't seen one fact out of you yet, and you STILL haven't replied to the mountains of posts i've left you, but because you seem to have missed it last time, I'll repost my answer to "that damned post".

You said:

"grandman, i'm tired of brining up the same points over and over because you can't read them/. look, randy was heel for 8 months, turned face overnight and was robbed out of the belt the next month. how in the blkue hell was he supposed to recover from that? anser that."

I replied:

Woops, you made a mistake, let me fix that for you. You meant to say, "I'm tired of bringing up the same point".

" And you're one point has no grounding. Randy was *not* turned overnight. Yes, the face turn happened after he got the belt, but his ENTIRE booking during that invincible heel period from the start of the year onwards was booking with a mind to turn him face. Any self respecting fan should have seen EXACTLY what they were doing. You don't give someone a run like that if you're not planning on them being your next bankable babyface star. From the moment Randy won that battle royale, it was painfully obvious he was getting the title at SS. It was also painfully obvious the face turn was going to happen. The only semblance of hope was that HHH would turn face and Randy might lead evolution as a heel, because honestly, he MIGHT have worked out if he'd had the backing of Ric Flair, because he didn't have what it took to do it on his own. That's not to say it wouldn't have flopped, but while Randy has a habit of throwing lemons around, Ric does like to make lemonade.

Anyhoo, point is, you have no point. You've got a few huge posts from me filled with why Batista succeeded and Randy didn't and you haven't debated one of those points yet.

But in your own words, I just "ansered that"."

Here's the cliffnotes. He wasn't turned overnight, his booking the entire year was protecting him for the face run and it was blatantly obvious. The fans still didn't want it, and he failed. End of story. He failed. If he didn't, he would have been headlining WM. But he didn't.

Okay, now please. One more time. If you want to refute this, refute it with *facts*. Not "you're wrong" or "I've argued with facts you've argued with opinions", or "I'm tired of your fanboyish posts", or "if you can't answer this don't come back". I've answered everything, you've answered nothing. Do it right or don't do it.