Election interference

[WillBrink]

Ok, so the CIA is saying the Russians interfered with the election. We have electors vowing not to vote for DT.

What now, or what next?

New election?

Just hand the keys to HC?

Leave O in place?

Let DT go ahead on, and do better next time?

"Interfered" as in hacked the emails of his rival? Made fake news sites? Anything else? I'm still actually trying to get a handle on exactly what is meant by that. Is there additional info not being released? Did they actually alter numbers by hacking voter machines or something that would directly alter the outcome of the election?

The email hack should be approached as a national security issue and investigated as such no matter how happy people may be HC is not POTUS, but it's a far leap to say it had any real direct impact on the election and I can guarantee you there's people in DC who think the Russians did us a favor on that one.

[paolo59]

The problem with all of this is that it has nothing to do with ensuring the integrity of the electoral process. ID's to vote, nah that's silly. Obama going on TV to tell illegals to go vote, oh that's fine. I could go on, but you get the point.

This isn't about democracy, this is about winning. Anybody piously claiming that they are worshiping at the altar of democracy is full of crap. If it wasn't this, it would be something else that they could use as a stick to beat Trump with.

Crying "democracy, democracy" whilst trying to blackmail/threaten/cajole/etc electors to vote against the electorate's wishes, all with a straight face, shows a phenomenal level of chutzpah.

If this was genuinely about democracy, I'd be all for it, but it's not. This is just the next chapter in the series "I wanted a pony!"

Once again, I believe that you have hit the nail right on the head. It is shocking to me how quickly and easily an entire political party will align itself against the institutions of the Constitutional Republic that its own members are sworn to uphold upon being elected, and demand the dismantling of the Electoral College. Legislation put forward to do away with the Electoral College. Elected representatives in Congress demanding that Electors vote against their certified state election results. Political operatives coordinating legal and financial efforts to defend 'unfaithful' electors across the nation. LOL It is a continuing circus. Brought to you by the progressive left!

Hacking is a very serious thing. The Russians have hacked and hacked. They have hacked practically every agency and entity within the Federal Government. The Chinese have hacked and stolen information on millions, all within said agencies. Nary a peep out of this present administration. That is a bit eye brow raising. Russia has all of a sudden become a mortal threat to our 'democratic process!' LOL

I will be glad when the 19th of December rolls around. We'll see just how much effect these deliberate manipulations have had. I think they will end up having just about as much effect as the supposed Russian intervention on behalf of Trump!

[x-trainer ben]

There you go again..... making sense and being reasonable!


QUOTE=WillBrink;1475042571]"Interfered" as in hacked the emails of his rival? Made fake news sites? Anything else? I'm still actually trying to get a handle on exactly what is meant by that. Is there additional info not being released? Did they actually alter numbers by hacking voter machines or something that would directly alter the outcome of the election?

The email hack should be approached as a national security issue and investigated as such no matter how happy people may be HC is not POTUS, but it's a far leap to say it had any real direct impact on the election and I can guarantee you there's people in DC who think the Russians did us a favor on that one.[/QUOTE]

[Fishman15]

If people want voter id's, make them free. Otherwise it's a poll tax.

Democrats complaining about taxes? Oh, how ironic...

[ljimd]

Collusion between the Russian Government and ANY campaign to keep it fair, should be dealt with harshly.

That includes if Hillary propositioned Putin.

I agree, that's my point.

[Iceman1800]

Democrats complaining about taxes? Oh, how ironic...

Paying a tax to vote is ok with you?
My republican governor has raised the gas tax, raised my property taxes, eliminated a tax break on auto insurance companies that was completely passed on to consumers and is forcing Amazon to charge a 6% tax on their prime membership for Michigan residents.

[wesleysh21]

Paying a tax to vote is ok with you?
My republican governor has raised the gas tax, raised my property taxes, eliminated a tax break on auto insurance companies that was completely passed on to consumers and is forcing Amazon to charge a 6% tax on their prime membership for Michigan residents.

They can make IDs so cheap and fast that they can definitely be free.

[DuracellBunny]

Once again, I believe that you have hit the nail right on the head. It is shocking to me how quickly and easily an entire political party will align itself against the institutions of the Constitutional Republic that its own members are sworn to uphold upon being elected, and demand the dismantling of the Electoral College. Legislation put forward to do away with the Electoral College. Elected representatives in Congress demanding that Electors vote against their certified state election results. Political operatives coordinating legal and financial efforts to defend 'unfaithful' electors across the nation. LOL It is a continuing circus. Brought to you by the progressive left!

It's the equivalent of being on trial for murdering both of your parents and asking for mercy because you are an orphan.

[paolo59]

It's the equivalent of being on trial for murdering both of your parents and asking for mercy because you are an orphan.

Poor child. So mistreated and misunderstood!

[Fishman15]

Paying a tax to vote is ok with you?
My republican governor has raised the gas tax, raised my property taxes, eliminated a tax break on auto insurance companies that was completely passed on to consumers and is forcing Amazon to charge a 6% tax on their prime membership for Michigan residents.

No it's not ok....make them free. I don't get the tax either...

[lotusdeva]

Not talking about the past. Talking about the future. FYI

Based on what? Crystal ball?

[Mark1T]

Based on what? Crystal ball?

No, based upon paradigm shift against the status quo. You can keep your statistics, but please add up the ingredients for a bull market and they are all here. Sure, there are always intermittent stumbles, even a bubble or two, but long-term growth is a legitimate prediction. But, if you think the market will crash as a result of Trump being President and because a portion of the country needs snowflake therapy as a result of being stressed about the election for years to come, it's ok. While the snowflakes whine and maintain their existence, I'll take advantage of financial opportunities and improve my customer's lives, as well as my family's and mine.

[ljimd]

No, based upon paradigm shift against in the status quo. You can keep your statistics, but please add up the ingredients for a bull market and they are all here. Sure, there are always intermittent stumbles, even a bubble or two, but long-term growth is a legitimate prediction. But, if you think the market will crash as a result of Trump being President and because a portion of the country needs snowflake therapy as a result of being stressed about the election for years to come, it's ok. While the snowflakes whine and maintain their existence, I'll take advantage of financial opportunities and improve my customer's lives, as well as my family's and mine.

Wish I shared your enthusiasm for the future. I voted for Reagan(1st term) and Bush(1st term) and got financially killed in those 2 bubbles.

I'm hoping your boy DT can turn it this time, but this small bump in the market smells funny. And just for your information, before you paint me as a dastardly lib, both the 2016 candidates made me throw up in my mouth. The party system in this country has become too tribal for me.

Again, I'm hoping you are right for your sake and mine.

[Mark1T]

Wish I shared your enthusiasm for the future. I voted for Reagan(1st term) and Bush(1st term) and got financially killed in those 2 bubbles.

I'm hoping your boy DT can turn it this time, but this small bump in the market smells funny. And just for your information, before you paint me as a dastardly lib, both the 2016 candidates made me throw up in my mouth. The party system in this country has become too tribal for me.

Again, I'm hoping you are right for your sake and mine.

I don't see you as anything negative. I appreciate your positions and respect them. I also lost in 2008. But, I think we can do better than the last 8 years of 1.8% average growth. But, the last 10 years we have been under 3%. We should do better, but there are always risks.

Thank you for your input.

[lotusdeva]

I didn't say the market will crash. I am questioning your "legitimate prediction", which as you previously said includes better Dow performance. What is it based on? Who made this legitimate prediction? You can make predictions based on historical data, overtime adjusting your variables and model. That's what financial analysts do, for example. Having said that, Dow performed better under Democrats, whether you like it or not

[lotusdeva]

Do you know what the growth was under 8 years of Bush as compared to Obama?

[Mark1T]

Do you know what the growth was under 8 years of Bush as compared to Obama?

News Flash: Bush is not the President-Elect. Not all Republicans equal. Not all Democrats are equal.

Do you see anything with the Trump economic plan that is at all similar to Bush's?

[lotusdeva]

So based on "legitimate predictions", the source and content of which you won't share, Trump will be an outliner to all of the Republucan presidents before him?

[Mark1T]

So based on "legitimate predictions", the source and content of which you won't share, Trump will be an outliner to all of the Republucan presidents before him?

It was in the previous page that I wrote (paraphrased): Higher Dow, lower taxes, lower corp taxes (down to 15% to 20% from 35%), higher employment, more job growth with corporation's lower taxes resulting in those corporations (at least some of them) returning back to the US and higher profits.

All those factors completely differentiate Trump's plan from other Republicans and Democrats of the past.

BTW, I am discussing this with you and I totally respect your opinion. I am just trying to make my case.

[paolo59]

Wish I shared your enthusiasm for the future. I voted for Reagan(1st term) and Bush(1st term) and got financially killed in those 2 bubbles.

I'm hoping your boy DT can turn it this time, but this small bump in the market smells funny. And just for your information, before you paint me as a dastardly lib, both the 2016 candidates made me throw up in my mouth. The party system in this country has become too tribal for me.

Again, I'm hoping you are right for your sake and mine.

LOL I don't have any money invested in the stock market. Outside of my pension fund. I don't have much control over what they do. But I just imagine that within a year, maybe two, the stock market will have one bumpy correction. Then it will rebound. Then it will have another ugly, turbulent readjustment, then...

I'm no real conspiracy theorist. But it seems to me that although 'stocks' represent tens of thousands of companies, and trillions of dollars invested from all over the world, the whole monstrous thing is probably more easily manipulated and controlled than anybody realizes, by very deep, vested interest pockets, orchestrated and coordinated from God only knows where! I'll readjust my tinfoil hat now. LOL

[acrawlingchaos]

I've said the same. We don't need electors to second guess our voting preferences.

It appears there are now 40 electorals threatening to withold/change their vote pending an investigation. Definitely a record.

[paolo59]

It appears there are now 40 electorals threatening to withold/change their vote pending an investigation. Definitely a record.

I am not sure what the tally is. I believe that some 37 Republican electors would have to be swayed to refuse to cast their vote for the president elect. It is a continuing, senseless drama in my opinion. Should the Electoral College fail to do its duty, the responsibility will fall upon the House of Representatives in Congress. Trump will be the next president.

The letter demands 'security clearance' for doubtful electors, and briefings. Are there ongoing investigations that indicate 'collusion' and Trump campaign involvement in supposed Russian efforts to sway the outcome of the election? The whole thing is ludicrous in my estimation. It is what I suspected it was from the offset, Stein demands for recounts. Insure that the Electoral College is unable to do its duty. I would chalk this up to 'fake news.' LOL It is a concerted effort to circumvent the results of a national election. At minimum, to undermine the incoming administration. Politics 101 perhaps. But just a bit more divisive, disingenuous, and destructive than what we've seen heretofore.

[lotusdeva]

It was in the previous page that I wrote (paraphrased): Higher Dow, lower taxes, lower corp taxes (down to 15% to 20% from 35%), higher employment, more job growth with corporation's lower taxes resulting in those corporations (at least some of them) returning back to the US and higher profits.

All those factors completely differentiate Trump's plan from other Republicans and Democrats of the past.

BTW, I am discussing this with you and I totally respect your opinion. I am just trying to make my case.

I get it that you have a different opinion, but Trump’s plan is just that - a plan, a promise of what is to come. If we want to get a glance of the future, we got to look back in the past. And we don’t have to look far, as Trump’s plan looks a lot like what Reagan and Bush did. Didn’t Bush try to do similar thing - lower taxes for corporations and wealthy and what happened? Bush’s Homeland Investment Act was supposed to create jobs and it didn’t, in fact, an opposite happened – loss of jobs and global economic meltdown. BTW, unemployment rate went down during Obama’s presidency (after he took office in the middle of one of the worst economic periods in US history). Based on what happened in the past, this is going to be a rough ride, worse than Bush. I suspect Trump will be chilling in his Tower, like Bush did (spent over 800 days vacationing on his ranch), while Rumsfeld, Cheney and Condoleeza ran Washington.

[ljimd]

The letter demands 'security clearance' for doubtful electors, and briefings. Are there ongoing investigations that indicate 'collusion' and Trump campaign involvement in supposed Russian efforts to sway the outcome of the election? The whole thing is ludicrous in my estimation. It is what I suspected it was from the offset, Stein demands for recounts. Insure that the Electoral College is unable to do its duty. I would chalk this up to 'fake news.' LOL It is a concerted effort to circumvent the results of a national election. At minimum, to undermine the incoming administration. Politics 101 perhaps. But just a bit more divisive, disingenuous, and destructive than what we've seen heretofore.

No paolo, this is not fake news. It is real. It may be a political diversion and an attempt to delegitimize a DT presidency with tools provided for in the constitution. Not dissimilar to the attempts to sully BHO over birth certificates and being a Muslim. DT's presidency is not in doubt, as the House of Representatives would certainly select him. But his effectiveness could suffer and serve to weaken him. A political plus for the left.

The alleged “Russian hacking” may have opened a back door for faithless electors to inflate their case. Whether DT and his team colluded with the Russians? I don't have a clue.

Not to make light of the current situation, but it is fascinating to watch this unfold. Having watched Watergate and Iran Contra, this has the potential for another peak into how the sausage is made and power politics in action.

[Mark1T]

I get it that you have a different opinion, but Trump’s plan is just that - a plan, a promise of what is to come. If we want to get a glance of the future, we got to look back in the past. And we don’t have to look far, as Trump’s plan looks a lot like what Reagan and Bush did. Didn’t Bush try to do similar thing - lower taxes for corporations and wealthy and what happened? Bush’s Homeland Investment Act was supposed to create jobs and it didn’t, in fact, an opposite happened – loss of jobs and global economic meltdown. BTW, unemployment rate went down during Obama’s presidency (after he took office in the middle of one of the worst economic periods in US history). Based on what happened in the past, this is going to be a rough ride, worse than Bush. I suspect Trump will be chilling in his Tower, like Bush did (spent over 800 days vacationing on his ranch), while Rumsfeld, Cheney and Condoleeza ran Washington.

Very dismal outlook. While you and other complain, I will continue to grow my business and provide for my family.

Based on what you are saying, you must have a crystal ball. Sure, Congress will have to approve of a lot, but lowering taxes should not be that problematic.

[wesleysh21]

I get it that you have a different opinion, but Trump’s plan is just that - a plan, a promise of what is to come. If we want to get a glance of the future, we got to look back in the past. And we don’t have to look far, as Trump’s plan looks a lot like what Reagan and Bush did. Didn’t Bush try to do similar thing - lower taxes for corporations and wealthy and what happened? Bush’s Homeland Investment Act was supposed to create jobs and it didn’t, in fact, an opposite happened – loss of jobs and global economic meltdown. BTW, unemployment rate went down during Obama’s presidency (after he took office in the middle of one of the worst economic periods in US history). Based on what happened in the past, this is going to be a rough ride, worse than Bush. I suspect Trump will be chilling in his Tower, like Bush did (spent over 800 days vacationing on his ranch), while Rumsfeld, Cheney and Condoleeza ran Washington.

You show a lack of understanding of the major part Bill Clinton played in the economic meltdown of the Bush era. Also, while Obama's unemployment rate is low, his labor participation rate is extremely low as well. Remember, they only count you as unemployed if you are looking for a job. Many people have just given up under Obama. I encourage you to not just look at presidents, but look at who controlled congress and the actual policies that were passed under each administration, when they took effect and how that puzzle comes together.

[ljimd]

You show a lack of understanding of the major part Bill Clinton played in the economic meltdown of the Bush era.

Adding Clinton to her quote doesn't lessen it's veracity.

Condescend much wes?

[lotusdeva]

Very dismal outlook. While you and other complain, I will continue to grow my business and provide for my family.

Based on what you are saying, you must have a crystal ball. Sure, Congress will have to approve of a lot, but lowering taxes should not be that problematic.

Not sure what you mean by complain, I am stating my opinion. This is just reality, under which we all have to provide for our families. No, I don't have a crystal ball, I do know what happened in the past though, as Bush ran on a similar platform, where his Homeland Investment act was supposed to make firms bring back funds from overseas to be used for job-creating investments. And what happened there? Nothing, money came back home and most of it went to buybacks. Multiple studies have been done since, showing that this move made no impact on job creation.

[wesleysh21]

Adding Clinton to her quote doesn't lessen it's veracity.

Condescend much wes?

Actually, its absolutely critical to add Clinton into the mix.

[lotusdeva]

You show a lack of understanding of the major part Bill Clinton played in the economic meltdown of the Bush era. Also, while Obama's unemployment rate is low, his labor participation rate is extremely low as well. Remember, they only count you as unemployed if you are looking for a job. Many people have just given up under Obama. I encourage you to not just look at presidents, but look at who controlled congress and the actual policies that were passed under each administration, when they took effect and how that puzzle comes together.

Which role did Bill Clinton play in the economic meltdown while Bush was in the Oval office for 8 years? So the economic surplus of the 1990's was all GOP's doing and Clinton had nothing to do with it?