Krav Maga

[bjjwraslter7]

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These kids post vids of, and reference their YouTube heros everytime they argue. No doubt their heros are great fighters, but they seem to miss the fact that they are pointing to individual fighters, and not a specific system. A lot of people practice MMA, but there's only one Fedor and one CroCop.
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Can you name one successful individual that trains in something other than muay thai, boxing, sambo, wrestling, bjj, or judo??

No, because there aren't any because those are the styles that are effective for ALL invdividuals. There isn't just one or two wrestlers and one or two muay thai fighters that are succesful...ALL successful fighters train those styles becuase they WORK. Pull your head out of your ass.

UFC was braught to america for one specific reason. To pit different styles against eachother to see which ones would come out on top. These are the ones that did, and they were eventualy all merged together to create a perfect mix or martial arts (mma). Why is this so hard to understand?

[Otis_Redding]

Can you name one successful individual that trains in something other than muay thai, boxing, sambo, wrestling, bjj, or judo??

No, because there aren't any because those are the styles that are effective for ALL invdividuals. There isn't just one or two wrestlers and one or two muay thai fighters that are succesful...ALL successful fighters train those styles becuase they WORK. Pull your head out of your ass.

UFC was braught to america for one specific reason. To pit different styles against eachother to see which ones would come out on top. These are the ones that did, and they were eventualy all merged together to create a perfect mix or martial arts (mma). Why is this so hard to understand?

Not everyone competes in a mass marketed, televised event. More the exposure, more the crowd that follows. Just because a style is not presented in a pretty package that is accessible to everyone, does not mean its inferior to the next style.

There is no inferior style, just inferior people.

ALL styles are affective

[Chett]

Not everyone competes in a mass marketed, televised event. More the exposure, more the crowd that follows. Just because a style is not presented in a pretty package that is accessible to everyone, does not mean its inferior to the next style.

There is no inferior style, just inferior people.

ALL styles are affective

so your telling me that if you put a guy that has trained for 4 years in a style like "dim mak" vs a guy that has trained for 4 years in muay thai that styles dont matter?

[Otis_Redding]

so your telling me that if you put a guy that has trained for 4 years in a style like "dim mak" vs a guy that has trained for 4 years in muay thai that styles dont matter?

Dim Mak is not a style, just one move....gee, and I thought you were educated in the "arts", or acted like you were.

[Chett]

Dim Mak is not a style, just one move....gee, and I thought you were educated in the "arts", or acted like you were.

orly?

http://www.martial-arts-info.com/104/dim-mak/

http://www.dimmakworld.com/booksnmanuals_bible.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dim_Mak

i thought you were educated in the "arts", or acted like you were

[bjjwraslter7]

Not everyone competes in a mass marketed, televised event. More the exposure, more the crowd that follows. Just because a style is not presented in a pretty package that is accessible to everyone, does not mean its inferior to the next style.

There is no inferior style, just inferior people.

ALL styles are affective

Then why don't the people that want to compete in mma train anything else? Maybe a fighter is really good, but chooses not to compete, but what about the ones that do want to compete? Don't you think if they could find a more effective style that they would use that instead?

You still haven't watched the early ufc's have you? If you would you would see all these martial arts masters do nothing but brawl because their styles suck and it's more effective to just go on natural instict and street fighting than to try and force some kung fu ninjitsu crap to work.

and it's effective, not affective.

[Otis_Redding]

orly?

http://www.martial-arts-info.com/104/dim-mak/

http://www.dimmakworld.com/booksnmanuals_bible.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dim_Mak

i thought you were educated in the "arts", or acted like you were

Like I said, one move. A single attack to a vital point.

[Otis_Redding]

Then why don't the people that want to compete in mma train anything else? Maybe a fighter is really good, but chooses not to compete, but what about the ones that do want to compete? Don't you think if they could find a more effective style that they would use that instead?

You still haven't watched the early ufc's have you? If you would you would see all these martial arts masters do nothing but brawl because their styles suck and it's more effective to just go on natural instict and street fighting than to try and force some kung fu ninjitsu crap to work.

and it's effective, not affective.

They train in whatever they are lacking in, based on their starting point. I highly doubt a fighter in the MMA arena would train in Krav Maga, since half of the moves are illegal in the ring. They train in what's allowed. Rules and refulations come into play in any type of sport, in any type of athlete.

So you do agree with the natural instint and street fighting...good.

[NuggzTheNinja]

Krav isn't MMA, that's all you need to know.

Systema isn't MMA either.

What Krav and Systema promote I support and understand, but idiots that train them and say "OMFG now I can take on somebody coming at me with a knife or gun!" obviously wasn't paying attention during class.

Take a Systema class where they use markers to represent the knife, then check your body for "cuts" (marks) after you get done.

During the course of those exercises, they don't tell you the repercussions of f-cking it up.

They don't tell you that if you f-ck up a gun grab and get hit in the stomach, you might be ****ting in a bag for the rest of your life.

They don't tell you that some bum with a knife who hasn't slept in 3 days can still open you up real good regardless of how "hardcore badass Spetsnaz killing machine" you are. A cut isn't just a little slice in your arm, if you take a wound even to the forearm, it will be wide open, subcutaneous fat visible, muscle hanging there, tendons severed, bleeding profusely. It's not just a little red line.

There's a context for everything. Krav is obviously not MMA, and MMA doesn't fulfill the roles of systems like Systema and Krav.

Give it a rest. Neither is better or worse, they are apples and oranges.

[Chett]

Like I said, one move. A single attack to a vital point.

did you miss the links that i posted talking about the style of dim mak, or are you just going to ignore it and act like it never happened?

[Chett]

So you do agree with the natural instint and street fighting...good.

no i believe he was referring to the fact that when you train in styles that are useless in real fights, that you will just revert to whatever random **** that you can.

[Chett]

Krav isn't MMA, that's all you need to know.

Systema isn't MMA either.

What Krav and Systema promote I support and understand, but idiots that train them and say "OMFG now I can take on somebody coming at me with a knife or gun!" obviously wasn't paying attention during class.

Take a Systema class where they use markers to represent the knife, then check your body for "cuts" (marks) after you get done.

During the course of those exercises, they don't tell you the repercussions of f-cking it up.

They don't tell you that if you f-ck up a gun grab and get hit in the stomach, you might be ****ting in a bag for the rest of your life.

They don't tell you that some bum with a knife who hasn't slept in 3 days can still open you up real good regardless of how "hardcore badass Spetsnaz killing machine" you are. A cut isn't just a little slice in your arm, if you take a wound even to the forearm, it will be wide open, subcutaneous fat visible, muscle hanging there, tendons severed, bleeding profusely. It's not just a little red line.

There's a context for everything. Krav is obviously not MMA, and MMA doesn't fulfill the roles of systems like Systema and Krav.

Give it a rest. Neither is better or worse, they are apples and oranges.

do you realize the fact that this thread isnt even about systema vs krav maga? or are you just retarded?

[Otis_Redding]

did you miss the links that i posted talking about the style of dim mak, or are you just going to ignore it and act like it never happened?

I'm just going to ignore it, just like you ignore the fact that there are other usefull styles besides MMA. Wait, to you, Pride and UFC is a style, not just good television.

[Chett]

I'm just going to ignore it, just like you ignore the fact that there are other usefull styles besides MMA. Wait, to you, Pride and UFC is a style, not just good television.

pride and ufc "is a style"? haha, i wonder where you got that from?

lol, were you in the "special" classes in high school?


when did i say "mma" was the only useful "style"? and since when is MMA even a style?

[JAGERBOY]

I'm just going to ignore it, just like you ignore the fact that there are other usefull styles besides MMA. Wait, to you, Pride and UFC is a style, not just good television.

Dude, MMA is a VARIETY of styles. Its the best of the best. What dont you get here? I may say I train MMA, but that includes muay thai, boxing, jiujitsu, judo, wrestling.

[delta9]

Krav isn't MMA, that's all you need to know.

Systema isn't MMA either.

What Krav and Systema promote I support and understand, but idiots that train them and say "OMFG now I can take on somebody coming at me with a knife or gun!" obviously wasn't paying attention during class.

Take a Systema class where they use markers to represent the knife, then check your body for "cuts" (marks) after you get done.

During the course of those exercises, they don't tell you the repercussions of f-cking it up.

They don't tell you that if you f-ck up a gun grab and get hit in the stomach, you might be ****ting in a bag for the rest of your life.

They don't tell you that some bum with a knife who hasn't slept in 3 days can still open you up real good regardless of how "hardcore badass Spetsnaz killing machine" you are. A cut isn't just a little slice in your arm, if you take a wound even to the forearm, it will be wide open, subcutaneous fat visible, muscle hanging there, tendons severed, bleeding profusely. It's not just a little red line.

There's a context for everything. Krav is obviously not MMA, and MMA doesn't fulfill the roles of systems like Systema and Krav.

Give it a rest. Neither is better or worse, they are apples and oranges.

good point of view

[NuggzTheNinja]

do you realize the fact that this thread isnt even about systema vs krav maga? or are you just retarded?

You can't read?

I was saying that Systema and Krav are much different than MMA in practice and application.

Go suck a lollipop asshat, nobody thinks you're adding anything valuable.

[Chett]

You can't read?

I was saying that Systema and Krav are much different than MMA in practice and application.

Go suck a lollipop asshat, nobody thinks you're adding anything valuable.

nobody was even talking about systema and the information in that post had almost nothing to do with the subject at hand

you are an idiot and you have added nothing lawlalwwl!1123123

^
theres my finishing touch to the post to make myself look like a badass!

and plus you negged me for whatever reason so you should expect insulting retorts from me

[Otis_Redding]

nobody was even talking about systema and the information in that post had almost nothing to do with the subject at hand

you are an idiot and you have added nothing lawlalwwl!1123123

^
theres my finishing touch to the post to make myself look like a badass!

and plus you negged me for whatever reason so you should expect insulting retorts from me

At least you admit you try to look like a badass. "try" is the key word here.

And to the other guy, yes, MMA is a mix of arts, nothing wrong with that. But its a mix of styles specific to one combat sport, with rules mind you. So nobody can say MMA is the end all be all. It is in the case of televised combat sports, but only in that situation.

[bjjwraslter7]

They train in whatever they are lacking in, based on their starting point. I highly doubt a fighter in the MMA arena would train in Krav Maga, since half of the moves are illegal in the ring. They train in what's allowed. Rules and refulations come into play in any type of sport, in any type of athlete.

So you do agree with the natural instint and street fighting...good.

It is so hard to argue with a complete dimwit. I read your posts and they are so stupid I don't even know how to reply...

Yes, they train in whatever they are lacking based on their starting point. So if they start out as a wrestler, they train muay thai and boxing for punchs, kicks, knees, elbows, clinch ect. Then they train bjj for submissions, fighting from the back, gaurd passes, ground control ect.

Or if they are a thai kickboxer, they train wrestling for takedown defense, takedowns, stand up grappling ect., bjj for subs/ground fighting ect.

These are things that make you a complete fighter. Being well versed in a mix of EFFECTIVE striking and grappling arts. You don't see a wrestler get into mma and say "hmm... I better train kung fu, ninjitsu, and karate" because those arts will not make them better fighters as proven in the early ufcs.

As for agreeing with natural ability and street fighting...
My point was that when you are trained in a garbage martial art that is ineffective, then yes you will fight more effectively by just throwing it out the window and trying to brawl. I'm not saying that that is effective, I'm just saying it's more effective than crapy martial arts. What you have to understand is that when you just go by instict and street fight, what you are doing is basicaly terrible mma. You are wrestling, boxing, and kickboxing, but incorrectly. MMA training will make you effective in these areas and teach you how to do them correctly which will make you an effective fighter.

I don't know why I even try... no matter how clearly I spell it out for you you will continue to argue without making any valid points and without listening to the valid points of others. If we keep responding this is just going to become the other thread all over again.

[Chett]

At least you admit you try to look like a badass. "try" is the key word here.

And to the other guy, yes, MMA is a mix of arts, nothing wrong with that. But its a mix of styles specific to one combat sport, with rules mind you. So nobody can say MMA is the end all be all. It is in the case of televised combat sports, but only in that situation.

do you have the ability to sense sarcasm? the point of adding that in was to satirize the other posters "finishing touch" line that he added in to attempt to make himself look like a badass.

before you were saying that mma is a style, but now you are just flip-flopping on your arguments, as usual.

[JAGERBOY]

Bjjwrastler, I think some people still hold the ideal that since it was created hundreds of years ago by some Chinese/Japanse or whatever monk or ninja guy, that it HAS to be effective. Just because an art is old, does not make it effective.

The Model T was the first car, but in todays world its horrible. Those arts built a base to evolve from, but even Bruce Lee realized that they werent as effective as they could or should be.

[bjjwraslter7]

At least you admit you try to look like a badass. "try" is the key word here.

And to the other guy, yes, MMA is a mix of arts, nothing wrong with that. But its a mix of styles specific to one combat sport, with rules mind you. So nobody can say MMA is the end all be all. It is in the case of televised combat sports, but only in that situation.

If you want to make it complete for non sport fighting it's not that hard. There is very little left to learn, it's not hard for a precise striker to redirect his aim from the inside of the thigh to the groin, or chin to eye/throat. The most important aspects of fighting are all covered in mixed martial arts, the rest can be learned in an extremely short time because of the solid foundation an mma'r already has.

Try and take one of these guys that train a "deadly art" and teach him mma, and it will be the exact opposite. It will take the mma'r a matter of days to become complete, the other guy has got years of training ahead of him. You can learn how to kick someone in the nuts or poke them in the eye in a very short amount of time (hence military using them), but it takes years to become profitient at grappling and striking.

[bjjwraslter7]

Bjjwrastler, I think some people still hold the ideal that since it was created hundreds of years ago by some Chinese/Japanse or whatever monk or ninja guy, that it HAS to be effective. Just because an art is old, does not make it effective.

The Model T was the first car, but in todays world its horrible. Those arts built a base to evolve from, but even Bruce Lee realized that they werent as effective as they could or should be.

Agreed.

[bjjwraslter7]

Everyone just stop responding. Lets avoid another 11 page thread of arguing with a brick wall.

[Otis_Redding]

If you want to make it complete for non sport fighting it's not that hard. There is very little left to learn, it's not hard for a precise striker to redirect his aim from the inside of the thigh to the groin, or chin to eye/throat. The most important aspects of fighting are all covered in mixed martial arts, the rest can be learned in an extremely short time because of the solid foundation an mma'r already has.

Try and take one of these guys that train a "deadly art" and teach him mma, and it will be the exact opposite. It will take the mma'r a matter of days to become complete, the other guy has got years of training ahead of him. You can learn how to kick someone in the nuts or poke them in the eye in a very short amount of time (hence military using them), but it takes years to become profitient at grappling and striking.

Your views are always biased, in favor of the MMA trainee, mine is the opposite. You complain about how I will not accept your agruments, yet you do not see it my way. I'm sorry to say, I never will, but does that piss you off so much that all you can resort to is insults? people have different views in this world, grow up and accept it.

[bjjwraslter7]

Your views are always biased, in favor of the MMA trainee, mine is the opposite. You complain about how I will not accept your agruments, yet you do not see it my way. I'm sorry to say, I never will, but does that piss you off so much that all you can resort to is insults? people have different views in this world, grow up and accept it.

Because you have nothing to back your argument up. You don't provide an argument at all. Seriously look at my posts in this and the other thread and look at yours. You don't even stick with your arguments you change them repeatedly. Half the time I don't even know what were arguing about. You jump around too much, you don't form valid points, you don't back up whatever points you have with anything. If you laid things out for me the way I do for you and showed some knowledge of what you were talking about maybe I'd take you serioulsy. The fact is that you have proven your ignorance time and time again and you pull all of your arguments straight out of your ass.

The bottom line is that you have shown no knowledge whatsoever of what you try and argue about, all you've shown is ignorance time and time again. Like I said in the other thread I wouldn't go onto a mechanics forum and tell them they don't know how to fix cars. It's the same thing.

[NuggzTheNinja]

nobody was even talking about systema and the information in that post had almost nothing to do with the subject at hand

you are an idiot and you have added nothing lawlalwwl!1123123

^
theres my finishing touch to the post to make myself look like a badass!

and plus you negged me for whatever reason so you should expect insulting retorts from me

Whoa now 34 year old child, no need to have a **** fit because you misread my post.

[Chett]

Whoa now 34 year old child, no need to have a **** fit because you misread my post.

23 not 34

and i still dont see what relevance your post has to the topic at hand.

[bjjwraslter7]

23 not 34

and i still dont see what relevance your post has to the topic at hand.

He was comparing krav maga/systema to mma. We are arguing what styles are and aren't effective, he was just saying he thinks they (krav/syst, mma) are both effective in different ways and both have their downfalls.