Want to look like a Bodybuilder? Train like a Bodybuilder.

[fitnesswellness]

Great post
Well, I don't want to exactly become a bodybuilder but was seeking information on healthy exercising and eating.
But nice to read this article.


physicalfitnesswellness.com

[frankrock12345]

What makes up a body builder? One must have strong muscles, six packed abs then tada.... You're a body builder. But behind this machismo lies a great responsibility to train hard to be like one. And what does it mean to train hard? You got to have the 3 D's: determination, dedication and desire to be like a certified body builder.

[Stncldsnake]

Good post, good info.

[canyonrat]

Excellent thread, one thing i always run into is people not understanding training for hypertrophy

[canyonrat]

Great thread. Specificity is key. gotta train like an athlete to look like an athlete

[TheFitDick]

Great post. Like it! Some very good advice

[DFWReporting]

Good post I love this! Thank you!

[TheFitDick]

I 100% agree. Isolation exercises are just as important if not more important for bodybuilders.

[muscleyou8]

oh come on guys.
train like a bodybuilder? what a steroid juiced up bodybuilder?
you guys have no dam chance in being like a pro bodybuilder even if you take drugs.
i wish this website would stop trying to make everyone believe you have to train like the next man to achieve anything,its all garbage.
in fact if you are trying to lift too heavy weights and overtrain like those freaks do then you will go backwards instead of forwards,this comes from the same myth that states you have to train splits and not full body to become a champ bodybuilder,what a load of rubbish that is.
every thing you guys throw out is made more complicated by the day. stop all this crap talk ok.
excersise(full body or split) and eat and sleep,is that so dam complicated? jesus

[VoxExMachina]

oh come on guys.
train like a bodybuilder? what a steroid juiced up bodybuilder?
you guys have no dam chance in being like a pro bodybuilder even if you take drugs.
i wish this website would stop trying to make everyone believe you have to train like the next man to achieve anything,its all garbage.
in fact if you are trying to lift too heavy weights and overtrain like those freaks do then you will go backwards instead of forwards,this comes from the same myth that states you have to train splits and not full body to become a champ bodybuilder,what a load of rubbish that is.

Strong trolling. Did you even read the post?

[muscleyou8]

Strong trolling. Did you even read the post?

yes i did and im not trolling, im responding to individuals here not the post op itself.

[VoxExMachina]

yes i did and im not trolling, im responding to individuals here not the post op itself.

The discussion has generally revolved around the idea that as a bodybuilder (natural), must train with additional volume and exercise selection compared to a powerlifter, strongman, or sports athlete.

First, you're the one insinuating that the point is to take drugs or train like someone who does. Second, you say things like this:

in fact if you are trying to lift too heavy weights and overtrain like those freaks do then you will go backwards instead of forwards,this comes from the same myth that states you have to train splits and not full body to become a champ bodybuilder,what a load of rubbish that is.

Actually, I'd like to see a natural, champion bodybuilder who strictly utilizes full body routines. At some point of development, your recovery abilities simply cannot support the workload or frequency to keep adapting with only a full body routine, nor do you have enough energy to implement additional work to bring individual body parts up to the required level of development.

[muscleyou8]

The discussion has generally revolved around the idea that as a bodybuilder (natural), must train with additional volume and exercise selection compared to a powerlifter, strongman, or sports athlete.

First, you're the one insinuating that the point is to take drugs or train like someone who does. Second, you say things like this:



Actually, I'd like to see a natural, champion bodybuilder who strictly utilizes full body routines. At some point of development, your recovery abilities simply cannot support the workload or frequency to keep adapting with only a full body routine, nor do you have enough energy to implement additional work to bring individual body parts up to the required level of development.

thats funny i was 75 kilos 3 years ago im now 110 kilos only using a full body routine mon,wed,frid for an hour and a half each time.AND IM AGED 40
this is what im getting at,just because you dont think someone can do it on a full body dosent mean you cant. i have never had any problems building mass on a full body routine and plenty more people do so. what did the bodybuilders in the 60s,70,80s use then? they used full body routines and there is plenty of natural bodybuilders back then that used it with great torsos. you cannot stereotype every single living person who lifts weights,that he cannot do so because you say so. if full body wasnt working for me why the hell would i still do it?
i have tried split routines and it actually lost me muscle,its useless for me.
this came about with a myth from joe weider all those years ago that stated you had to do splits to gain mass,anyone can tell you on the internet thats bs, even pro bodybuilders.
my point is you are all trying to be pro bodybuilders and you are not,unless you are on steroids you will always be an amateur,simple as that.

oh look what ive found from this very website a nice quote from bodybuilding.com

"Compare
How Does A Full-Body Workout Stack Up To The Standard 3, 4 And 5 Day Splits?

A full-body workout can more than hold its own against a split training program. For many people, doing full-body workouts can be better for total body growth than a traditional bodybuilding split routine. Because every muscle gets worked multiple times per week there are more opportunities for growth while on a total body training program, which allows many people to grow more from this training style."

HMMM THATS FUNNY........

[muscleyou8]

Split Routines: Are They the Death of Productive Training?

Kurt J. Wilkens, RKC
I have come to the following conclusion, after considerable research and study of much of the available material regarding the training methods and results of the so-called ‘old timers’, as well as current training methods and results: the ‘split’ routine has been the death of productive strength training and muscle building. Allow me to explain the reasoning behind this possibly shocking revelation…

First, I shall clarify what I mean by ‘split’ routine. As most of us are probably aware, the conventional use of the phrase split routine comes from bodybuilding; it refers to structuring ones training routine around the individual body parts/muscle groups. One example: Working chest, shoulders, and triceps one day, back and biceps the next, and legs the third day. Another, even worse (and you‘ll understand why by the end of the article), example: Legs one day, back one day, chest one day, shoulders one day, and arms one day. As I said, these are conventional examples of split routines, the type of things you would invariably find in what have been referred to as the “muscle comics” -- because what you find inside these ‘comics’ is so far-fetched and ridiculous, it has absolutely no resemblance to reality!

Another, more practical, type of split routine, would be to split the lifts -- take a handful of the big, compound, multi-joint exercises and work two or three each time you train. As you will soon see, this type of split can be very effective. For example: squats, pull-ups, and overhead presses one day, deadlifts and bench press another day, and maybe snatches and cleans-and-jerks on another day. It should be obvious, I hope, that the type of split routine that I have a problem with is the former, body part type.

It might not be the end of the world if the use of body part split routines were limited just to bodybuilding, but their insidious influence is found everywhere. Many amateur and professional athletes (in football, baseball, basketball, etc.), World’s Strongest Man competitors, powerlifters, and combative and tactical athletes of all types can be seen using the cursed split routine in their training. These are people who, in my opinion, should know better -- and whose athletic needs require a totally different approach to strength training and conditioning.

When the ‘average’ guy took up weight training in the early days of the 20th Century, he was almost assured of making good gains from his training. He could count on adding considerable size and strength to his body, while also vastly improving his health. Today’s average trainee is not afforded that same luxury/opportunity -- and much of the blame should fall at the feet of the muscle magazines, for it is the muscle mags that promulgate the absurd split routines to the unknowing masses of eager, yet gullible, young men. In defense of these magazines, though, it may not be entirely their fault. You see, it all started back in the early 1920s …

A Little History for Yourself

When Milo Steinborn came here from Germany, he brought with him the heavy, flat-footed squat. Prior to this, most lifters in this country were doing their squats with fairly light weights, up on their toes. This produced a certain degree of muscularity in the thighs (though not necessarily a lot), but didn’t contribute much in the way of startling total-body size and strength. With Steinborn’s version of the squat, that all changed -- and a revolution was founded! The heavy, flat-footed, high-rep squat would eventually become the cornerstone of most lifter’s routines, thanks in large part to the efforts of Joseph Curtis Hise and Peary Rader. Along with the squat, you would find many other heavy, multi-joint lifts being suggested by the top physical culturists of the time. This trend -- whole-body routines with an emphasis on heavy leg and back work -- would continue into the 1960s, but only barely.

Perhaps some examples through the years are in order.

Alan Calvert, from his ‘First Course in Body-Building and Muscle-Developing Exercises’, 1924, included the following drills in his program: Standing Curls, Bent-Over Rows, Standing Press Behind Neck, Stiff-Arm Pullovers, Weighted Situps, Overhead Press while seated on the floor, Straddle Lifts, Shrugs, Squats up on the toes, One-Arm Press/Side Press, One-Arm Swings, and a strange type of Supported, Bent-Over One-Arm Reverse Curl.

Mark Hamilton Berry, from his ‘First Course in Physical Improvement and Muscle Developing Exercises’, circa ~1936: Standing Curl, Floor Press, Bent Rows, Standing Press Behind Neck, Two-Arm Pullovers, Squats, Shrugs, Straddle Lifts, Weighted Situp, One-Arm Press/Side Press, One-Arm KB Swing, Wrist Roller, Wrestler’s Bridge, Reverse Curl, Military Press.

Harry Barton Paschall, ‘The Bosco System of Progressive Physical Training’, 1954: (Program 1: Bodybuilding) Upright Rows, Standing Press, Standing Curls, Bent Rows, Squats, Pullovers, Calf Raise, Stiff-Legged Deadlift/Shrug combination drill, Side Bends, DB Circles, Weighted Situps, and Leg Swings; (Program 2: Weight Gaining) Clean and Press, Standing Curls, Bent Rows, Bench Press, Squat, and Chest Lifts.

John McCallum, from his Keys to Progress series, circa the mid-1960s: (An article titled ‘For Size and Strength’) Prone Hyper-Extensions, Squats and Pullovers, Front Squats, Bench Press, Power Cleans, Rowing, Press Behind Neck, Incline Curls.

You will notice that none of these programs are split routines; more often than not, it was expected that the routine would be performed on three non-consecutive days per week. Please note, there is nary a fly nor lateral raise nor leg extension in the bunch. (Apparently, however, curls have always been included as a concession to man’s preoccupation with big biceps.) Another thing you may notice is that, over the years, the routines tended to get a little shorter -- programs of 10-15 or more drills were becoming routines of 6-8 exercises, as they minimized any redundancy and eliminated some of the drills that were not maximally productive. Thus, they found it possible to develop whole-body size and strength without having to train each individual muscle with its own exercise. All of these programs -- both the longer ones and, especially, the shorter ones -- resulted in considerable increases in size and strength for anyone who tried them.

The same cannot be said for the drivel and BS that passes for training advice in this day and age. Show me an ‘average’, drug-free, genetically-typical trainee today who has made any real progress in his training; a modern lifter who continues to make progress steadily, even if somewhat slowly; a trainee who is not lifting the same amount of weight for the same number of reps week after week, year after year. I’ve seen it myself time and time again, first when I trained in a gym, then when I worked in one.

In fact, I experienced it for myself. Allow me a brief digression to illustrate my point with some personal history. Years back, when I used to train in the gym with a training partner, we always used split routines -- typically chest/shoulders/triceps on Monday and Thursday, back/biceps Tuesday and Friday, and legs on Wednesday. My partner was a thick little mesomorph who made some progress on whatever program we were using; I, on the other hand, did not. It may also be worth noting that my partner made his progress while missing a good eight out of ten leg workouts, while I made virtually no progress while never missing a leg session. In each chest workout we would do the bench press, working up to a max each time (the idea that you need to max in each workout -- that’s a rant for another time), and I would always take a shot at the big ‘two wheels’, 225. Only on one or two occasions was I actually able to bench that 225 by myself, for a shaky, ugly rep -- and this was over the span of more than two years time. (While I constantly struggled with that 225, my partner went on to push 315, damned mesomorph …) Shortly after I quit the gym, I went on a ‘Hard Gainer’ type routine, training the whole body in each workout, and using only three or four lifts per session to do so. And after no more than about six months I was benching the sacred two wheels for reps -- three or four or five -- at home, by myself, with confidence, thank you very much.

By now, you are probably wondering when I’m going to get to the point. Well, here it comes. The whole-body type programs that were used in the old days offered many benefits not afforded by the elaborate split routines of today, and these benefits may help explain why it is that old-time lifters could excel while we flounder in a sea of mediocrity. (It may also explain why our Olympic lifters have lost to the cursed Commies year after year -- since the 60s; it’s an opinion apparently shared by none other than the great Olympic lifter Tommy Kono, at least according to his excellent book, “Weightlifting, Olympic Style”.)

[micheljohn]

If you want to look like a body builder,then you need to do a regular exercise and eat a healthy diet.

[VoxExMachina]

If you want to look like a body builder,then you need to do a regular exercise and eat a healthy diet.

Well, there we go folks.

[the12boss]

Start strength training by working out daily, not just walking or running, start doing simple pushups and situps for a two weeks. The third week start doing upper body conditioning like working your arms,biceps,etc. 4th week start doing lower body muscle conditioning. rinse and repeat.

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[NathanJohnz]

I will have to choose special words to say Thanks to this Thread Creator VoxExMachina for his kind suggestion and taking care of people. Love you!

[MMABOSS1]

Many Many thanks for this thread, very useful all of us like me,

Keep sharing

[dianelopez06]

Love reading your post! Its inspiring, please keep it up. I'm looking forward to read your next posts.
"Good bodybuilders have the same mind when it comes to sculpting, than a sculptor has. " Love the quote!

[Retoaded]

Well, there we go folks.

Vox, pack it up man, the new expert is in town.

[TakedaShingen]

Great post.

The saying that has always kind of encompassed bodybuilding for me and drives me in the lifestyle is,

"Do you wanna be able to lift 1,000lbs, or LOOK like you can?"

Thanks for this write up Vox

[Bucknut8084]

Can I get some general recommendations when isolation and refinement movements should be incorporated.

Has anyone ever come up with a chart on certain strength measurements, height to lean muscle ratio's. Basically something to say it would be a great time to start other movements along with compounds.

I'm currently on Bill Starr's 5x5 and am absolutely loving it. I will never ever not do compounds. They will always be the staple of my routine, but knowing when refinement exercises would be beneficial over just increased volume of compounds would be great.

[UFCstream]

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[CookAndrewB]

Great post.

The saying that has always kind of encompassed bodybuilding for me and drives me in the lifestyle is,

"Do you wanna be able to lift 1,000lbs, or LOOK like you can?"

Thanks for this write up Vox

For the natural lifter, this isn't an either/or scenario. To be big, you must get stronger.

Now, notice I didn't say "you must deadlift 800lbs to be big. Just that wherever you are today, you must be stronger than that. Then, when you get stronger... you need to be stronger than that. Take that approach in whatever style of lifting, and I think you will find a lot of success. If you ever look at a guy and think "damn, he looks like he could lift a house" I'll be willing to bet that he didn't get that way messing around with the same weights he used five years ago.

... get stronger.

Can I get some general recommendations when isolation and refinement movements should be incorporated.

Has anyone ever come up with a chart on certain strength measurements, height to lean muscle ratio's. Basically something to say it would be a great time to start other movements along with compounds.

I'm currently on Bill Starr's 5x5 and am absolutely loving it. I will never ever not do compounds. They will always be the staple of my routine, but knowing when refinement exercises would be beneficial over just increased volume of compounds would be great.

Take this for what it is... my opinion on the matter:

I think that if I was coaching an individual, I would want to see sound strength mechanics in the big three lifts before branching off and specializing. If they could show me a squat to good depth, deadlift without rounding their back, and a bench press that won't ruin their shoulders in less than a decade, then I would be happy to branch out. No requisite strength levels, no need to do the same darn thing for a year... just be brilliant at the basics and you have earned the right to take the training wheels off.

At the same time, I would caution an individual to not rush that process. What you can do with an empty bar may be a far cry from what you can do with 90% of your max. That proficiency means proficient WITH WEIGHT.

[krete77]

For the natural lifter, this isn't an either/or scenario. To be big, you must get stronger.

Now, notice I didn't say "you must deadlift 800lbs to be big. Just that wherever you are today, you must be stronger than that. Then, when you get stronger... you need to be stronger than that. Take that approach in whatever style of lifting, and I think you will find a lot of success. If you ever look at a guy and think "damn, he looks like he could lift a house" I'll be willing to bet that he didn't get that way messing around with the same weights he used five years ago.

... get stronger.

I like this mentality. I've been slowly adapting this style of thinking to my routine. What I found over time was that I had to drop the weight on all my lifts and get back to the basics. I was just trying to throw up the largest number I could and sorta got lost in the actual point of the lifts. Even though I took a step back in the weight amounts, I think in the long run, I'll be a much stronger/bigger individual.

[CookAndrewB]

I like this mentality. I've been slowly adapting this style of thinking to my routine. What I found over time was that I had to drop the weight on all my lifts and get back to the basics. I was just trying to throw up the largest number I could and sorta got lost in the actual point of the lifts. Even though I took a step back in the weight amounts, I think in the long run, I'll be a much stronger/bigger individual.

I agree with you.

Most people can get stronger while lifting with poor form/bad habits. At some point, that bad habit/poor form issue becomes the item that holds them back. It is always better to drop weight and tighten up your form so that, structurally, you are in the best position to handle weight. Lest I be misunderstood, form is important in that it helps you move the most weight, safely. The form itself isn't important, its what good form allows you to do. Good form with very light weights is... pointless. I see "form nazi" types from time to time, and almost without fail they are using a weight that my great grandmother would easily handle. That's all fine and dandy, but they missed the point entirely.

[krete77]

I agree with you.

Most people can get stronger while lifting with poor form/bad habits. At some point, that bad habit/poor form issue becomes the item that holds them back. It is always better to drop weight and tighten up your form so that, structurally, you are in the best position to handle weight. Lest I be misunderstood, form is important in that it helps you move the most weight, safely. The form itself isn't important, its what good form allows you to do. Good form with very light weights is... pointless. I see "form nazi" types from time to time, and almost without fail they are using a weight that my great grandmother would easily handle. That's all fine and dandy, but they missed the point entirely.

Right on..and to add to my original post, I would also say that I'm certainly pushing numbers that are challenging me.

[-Lucifer]

Excellento threado, Voxo.

[VoxExMachina]

Excellento threado, Voxo.

Where you been, Lu?