Intermittent Fasting for Strength Training and Fat Loss

[reverse79]

*raises hand*

smashed 2 spicy chicken sandwiches from chik fil a ...medium fry and a chocolate milk
yesterday

today im heading to chipotle for a burrito


Ill measure my progress in 2 weeks

[yojeans2tight]

can someone give me input on this lol. im gonna start on monday.
my maintenance is around 2900-3000
trying to drop some, goonna cut calories by 600 (this is whats worked int he past - 500 wasnt enough)

my macros on workout days are 226.8p/183.8carbs/69.9 fat = 2304 calories
off days are 225.8p/129.8carbs/91.9fat = 2282 calories

am i on the right track with this macros for IFing?

hit the gym 5 days a week 3 on 1 off 2 on 1 off

[determined4000]

can someone give me input on this lol. im gonna start on monday.
my maintenance is around 2900-3000
trying to drop some, goonna cut calories by 600 (this is whats worked int he past - 500 wasnt enough)

my macros on workout days are 250.8p/170.8carbs/65 fat = 2300 calories
off days are 250.8p/100.8carbs/91.9.1fat = 2282 calories

am i on the right track with this macros for IFing?

hit the gym 5 days a week 3 on 1 off 2 on 1 off

Fixed

[.aeterna]

Thanks man.


Thanks bro.

Can I use a pre-workout while fasting? Here are the nutritional facts:

Calories: 5g
Carbohydrates: 1g
Sugar: 1g
Calcium: 2mg
Folate: 250mcg
Vitamin B12: 35mcg
Beta Alanine: 1500mg
Creatine Nitrate: 1000mg
Arginine AKG: 1000mg
Explosive Energy Blend: 266mg (caffeine and some other ****)

that looks just fine, personally i just follow right along martin's recommendation with SciVation Xtend (BCAA's) right before my fasted workout.

[reverse79]

Drinking BCAAs DURING the workout

Anyone else doing this? He recommends 30grams of BCAA ...10 before the workout and at times..10 after and then another hour later 10grams more.

I was thinking...10 grams before...10 during...10 after

Anyone>?

[dcarterc]

Drinking BCAAs DURING the workout

Anyone else doing this? He recommends 30grams of BCAA ...10 before the workout and at times..10 after and then another hour later 10grams more.

I was thinking...10 grams before...10 during...10 after

Anyone>?

I follow Martin's diretions... "30grams of BCAA ...10 before the workout and at times..10 after and then another hour later 10grams more" & I use extend... seems to be the biggest bang for your buck (servings wise). This has worked well for me, no noticeable strength loss & I work out at like 5.30am.

I'm just curious why you would want to deviate from what he recommends?

[robin91]

Surely you'd be fine without another 10g post-workout if you're then going to have a PWO shake and/or meal?

I'm going to use 10g 10-15 minutes prior to working out, 10g during and then I'll have a shake immediately post-workout and this will be the beginning of my feeding window.

[kitebean]

please don't bash me for asking this, here goes:

I have been IF-ing for ~6 weeks, my feeding window is 11:30 - 7:30. Most days I lift fasted, some days I do fasted conditioning and cardio. There is no degradation in my strength for lifting, but I do tend to poop out after ~40 minutes of cardio.

However, I have not seen any difference in my weight, physique, BF% or calorie burning.

I guess my question is, why should I keep doing this? It's not like it's an extreme burden, I'm used to it now and quite like (mostly) being more satiated (not easy on 1400-1500 cals, but I am tiny and maintaining a 600 cal defecit) than when I graze.....

thanks for considered responses....

[spartakis]

started if yesterday. bulking with this and 5x5 sl. my question

How in the world do you guys eat 3k calories in 8 hours without feeling like you will explode. I am at 1600 since noon and cant move, still have about that much to go and only have about 4 and a half hours left. I thought the fasting would be the hard part.

[.aeterna]

Surely you'd be fine without another 10g post-workout if you're then going to have a PWO shake and/or meal?

I'm going to use 10g 10-15 minutes prior to working out, 10g during and then I'll have a shake immediately post-workout and this will be the beginning of my feeding window.

BCAA's are only necessary pre-workout if you are training fasted

they are not required at any other time in the IF diet. but if your first PWO meal is going to be say..3-4 hours after training concludes, THEN he recommends to have 10g after, and every other hour following.

[.aeterna]

please don't bash me for asking this, here goes:

I have been IF-ing for ~6 weeks, my feeding window is 11:30 - 7:30. Most days I lift fasted, some days I do fasted conditioning and cardio. There is no degradation in my strength for lifting, but I do tend to poop out after ~40 minutes of cardio.

However, I have not seen any difference in my weight, physique, BF% or calorie burning.

I guess my question is, why should I keep doing this? It's not like it's an extreme burden, I'm used to it now and quite like (mostly) being more satiated (not easy on 1400-1500 cals, but I am tiny and maintaining a 600 cal defecit) than when I graze.....

thanks for considered responses....

ur strength has stayed solid, but you have seen no difference in body composition even on a 600 cal deficit?

[dcarterc]

started if yesterday. bulking with this and 5x5 sl. my question

How and the world do you guys eat 3k calories in 8 hours without feeling like you will explode. I am at 1600 since noon and cant move, still have about that much to go and only have about 4 and a half hours left. I thought the fasting would be the hard part.

It is tough at first... I found splitting the cals over the course of 3-4 smaller meals helps. Now I'm finding I can eat more in less meals.. I think it just takes time for your body to adjust.

[dcarterc]

please don't bash me for asking this, here goes:

I have been IF-ing for ~6 weeks, my feeding window is 11:30 - 7:30. Most days I lift fasted, some days I do fasted conditioning and cardio. There is no degradation in my strength for lifting, but I do tend to poop out after ~40 minutes of cardio.

However, I have not seen any difference in my weight, physique, BF% or calorie burning.

I guess my question is, why should I keep doing this? It's not like it's an extreme burden, I'm used to it now and quite like (mostly) being more satiated (not easy on 1400-1500 cals, but I am tiny and maintaining a 600 cal defecit) than when I graze.....

thanks for considered responses....

6 weeks of IF with a solid diet and training regimen? That doesn't seem right. Something must be wrong with your diet. Without knowing details it's hard to provide insight.

[.aeterna]

started if yesterday. bulking with this and 5x5 sl. my question

How and the world do you guys eat 3k calories in 8 hours without feeling like you will explode. I am at 1600 since noon and cant move, still have about that much to go and only have about 4 and a half hours left. I thought the fasting would be the hard part.

comes down to finding more calorie dense foods then or make big shakes that are loaded with cals

[robin91]

BCAA's are only necessary pre-workout if you are training fasted

they are not required at any other time in the IF diet. but if your first PWO meal is going to be say..3-4 hours after training concludes, THEN he recommends to have 10g after, and every other hour following.

Ah I see that makes logical sense, I presumed that feeding would commence immediately PWO hence why I challenged it!

Am I the only one that has no problems with appetite? I have no problems smashing down 2000 or so calories in a 4-6 feeding window and could easily do 3k! However due to cutting, that's not an option atm :P

[dustinlima]

So... My weight is idling pretty much around 150 lbs (makes it easy to dial in on the double-beam scale). My strength is absolutely increasing, but it could be mostly neuromuscular gains as it's been about 3 weeks since starting the big compound exercises (dl, bp, overhead press, squat). In my opinion, I am also leaning out, either in the sense that my muscles are getting larger and bf% is staying the same or both muscles are getting larger while bf% is dropping, I am not sure; vascular definition has certainly increased, though this may be independent of bodyfat.

Obviously this is kind of a desired result of many (and of mine). However, the strict idling at 150 (pretty much 149.5-151) has me a little worried. Of course, like I said, it's only been about 3 weeks, so perhaps I'm consistently weighing myself at lower end of the spectrum-- definitely not after feasting, and not before the two big morning $#!%s--at my fasted weight. I've also been consistent with creatine during this time, so I hope that I'm not losing weight while gaining water weight - but, again, definition is definitely increasing. I also feel that, as I start lifting heavier weights through the same distances I must be doing more work which must require increased calorie intake?

I guess what I would like an opinion on is... should I be worried about weight idling, and eat more? Or let the strength do the talking, and keep the calorie intake about the same?

ps I don't count calories, but I do eat ~about the same thing everyday.

[robin91]

So... My weight is idling pretty much around 150 lbs (makes it easy to dial in on the double-beam scale). My strength is absolutely increasing, but it could be mostly neuromuscular gains as it's been about 3 weeks since starting the big compound exercises (dl, bp, overhead press, squat). In my opinion, I am also leaning out, either in the sense that my muscles are getting larger and bf% is staying the same or both muscles are getting larger while bf% is dropping, I am not sure; vascular definition has certainly increased, though this may be independent of bodyfat.

Obviously this is kind of a desired result of many (and of mine). However, the strict idling at 150 (pretty much 149.5-151) has me a little worried. Of course, like I said, it's only been about 3 weeks, so perhaps I'm consistently weighing myself at lower end of the spectrum-- definitely not after feasting, and not before the two big morning $#!%s--at my fasted weight. I've also been consistent with creatine during this time, so I hope that I'm not losing weight while gaining water weight - but, again, definition is definitely increasing. I also feel that, as I start lifting heavier weights through the same distances I must be doing more work which must require increased calorie intake?

I guess what I would like an opinion on is... should I be worried about weight idling, and eat more? Or let the strength do the talking, and keep the calorie intake about the same?

ps I don't count calories, but I do eat ~about the same thing everyday.

Is strength going up on pretty much all lifts? If so I wouldn't worry too much, maybe increase calories by a couple of hundred each day and go from there, reassess in 2 weeks? Or you could start taking measurements with a tape measure (arms, chest, legs etc) and use that to track any changes in size alongside taking regular progress pictures, as weight can often be misleading!

[PBateman2]

So... My weight is idling pretty much around 150 lbs (makes it easy to dial in on the double-beam scale). My strength is absolutely increasing, but it could be mostly neuromuscular gains as it's been about 3 weeks since starting the big compound exercises (dl, bp, overhead press, squat). In my opinion, I am also leaning out, either in the sense that my muscles are getting larger and bf% is staying the same or both muscles are getting larger while bf% is dropping, I am not sure; vascular definition has certainly increased, though this may be independent of bodyfat.

Obviously this is kind of a desired result of many (and of mine). However, the strict idling at 150 (pretty much 149.5-151) has me a little worried. Of course, like I said, it's only been about 3 weeks, so perhaps I'm consistently weighing myself at lower end of the spectrum-- definitely not after feasting, and not before the two big morning $#!%s--at my fasted weight. I've also been consistent with creatine during this time, so I hope that I'm not losing weight while gaining water weight - but, again, definition is definitely increasing. I also feel that, as I start lifting heavier weights through the same distances I must be doing more work which must require increased calorie intake?

I guess what I would like an opinion on is... should I be worried about weight idling, and eat more? Or let the strength do the talking, and keep the calorie intake about the same?

ps I don't count calories, but I do eat ~about the same thing everyday.

Currently, everything is in your favor - mirror, overall muscle/fat ratio improvement, definition, vascularity, and most importantly performance in the gym (i.e. strength).

Eventually your strength will tap out especially at a consistent calorie intake. At that point, you can increase calories (10-15%) and with that your BW may increase.

Until then, I wouldn't really change a thing. Might me a good idea just for a few weeks to track your cals/macros. Just to get an idea of where you stand. That way when you do need to make adjustments - you know which ones to make.

Like the above use as many tools as possible - mirror, body measurements, progress pics, tracking strength, scale, etc..

My two cents.

[dustinlima]

repd robin, but "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to PBateman2 again." a very valuable two cents, freak show

[kitebean]

6 weeks of IF with a solid diet and training regimen? That doesn't seem right. Something must be wrong with your diet. Without knowing details it's hard to provide insight.

Fair enough - please see attachment - 7 day log which is typical. Yesterday was extraordinary because I climbed a 5500 foot mountain over 6 hours - burned ~3000 cals total for the day.

As you will see, I think my macros are good, and consistent. I get a good variety of food. I have started carb cycling because I found I was getting too depleted on <100g carbs. The reason I keep my carbs low is that I am hyperinsulinanemic with PCOS and I have always done well keeping my carbs slightly lower and my protein and fat slightly higher. I have however been getting hypoglycemic symptoms (at night, reactive - agitation, extreme hunger pangs, etc) on the days where I do a double session of lifting and cardio on lower carbs.

I have been training consistently for almost 4 years - had huge success the first 2 years, less over the past two. Could be a combination of age, hormonal changes, adaptation? That's why I started IF, to try to shake my body up because it wasn't moving.

I have also been using a Bodymedia to measure my output which is significantly less than most people, eg most women would burn ~2000-2500 on a non-training day, where as it takes me a session of lifting, plus a session of cardio, plus a good walk to get that burn. It is partly due to my short stature, little levers, and significant muscularity. I my body, in physics terms, doesn't move sufficient distance whilst under exertion/stressors to burn heaps of energy.

I lift heavy - see my journal for details if you are interested http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...75111&page=166
there is a huge history here

Anyway I do appreciate anyone who has any ideas, I work regularly with the BEST TRAINER IN THE WORLD but even though I know it's probably not a case of not seeing the wood for the trees, maybe it is.....probably not, but you never know. I think I'm just special. hehe.

[romajc]

I'm right with some of you. I struggled my hardest today to put down 2500 cals in the 8hr window. That was with downing shakes after my meals.

[benwin21]

i have a small question, is it possible to do IF while only using caffeine,omega 3 and whey, as supplements?

BCAAs are to expensive for me. can i still train fasted and progress without taking them?

i have been thinking of buying Higher Power BCAA 1000 but i don't know if its any good.

[bojack73]

So lemme get this straight:

-16 hours of fasting. BCAA's allowed during fast
-workout. BCAA's allowed as preworkout and intraworkout
-PWO meal 1 immediately after, followed by 2 more meals all within 8 hours of each other.
-Each meal is 33.3% of daily calories

that about right?

Please quote and fix what needs to be fixed. I'm very intrigued by this diet option as it sounds highly convenient and rewarding.

[jjc89]

can someone tell me why the recommended workout is a 3 day split? I think people generally do legs, chest, back? If so why is this? I think I've got my diet down to a tee and just want to get sorted with my routine. I am currently doing a 4 day split and I think I'd prefer a 4/5 day routine than a three day one.

[chuntbaby]

I'm right with some of you. I struggled my hardest today to put down 2500 cals today in the 8th window. That was with downing shakes after my meals.

Really? U don't like food or something

Try eating more calorie dense stuff then / add *A TINY BIT* of junk / dessert to a meal to help fill in the extra calories as long as ur making Ur macros and it's not like 50% junk

[jjc89]

Really? U don't like food or something

Try eating more calorie dense stuff then / add *A TINY BIT* of junk / dessert to a meal to help fill in the extra calories as long as ur making Ur macros and it's not like 50% junk

Yeah this, plus it can help sometimes to use calroie dense stuff like a little full olive oil, fat cheese, whole milk or a square of high cocoa% dark chocolate to fill out the calories man... as long as you meet your macros of course.

[bojack73]

Try this for a high calorie shake if you're having trouble getting down clean kcals...

1-2 scoops protein (assuming 22g/scoop avg)
1 serv Peanut Butter (try the whipped)
16oz fat free Milk
1 pckt Instant Oatmeal (flavor of your choice)
artificial sweetner (splenda, stevia, etc... optional)
crushed ice

roughly comes out to (depending on flavors and brands of products)

Calories = 715ish

CHO 70ish
PRO 70ish
FAT 17ish

About 40/40/20

If this is too much try splitting it into two shakes. Makes each about 350-360kcals

It's really good. You can also mess around by adding a dab of sugar free chocolate syrup or cut up an apple/banana. That will obviously increase the kcals but you get the idea.

[Malkira]

How long would you all wait before changing calorie amounts?

I'm 6'2, sitting at 224, 190lbs LBM or so.
I've been doing 3000 calories on lifting days, 2000 on off days, have 1-2 meals during the weekend where I cannot track, but nothing excessive or crazy (ie, turkey dinner, slice of pumpkin pie, stuck to fasting).

My weight has essentially been the same for 2 weeks:
1 233.6 235.2 233 229 231.6 228.2 227.2
2 226.4 227.2 227.6 226 227 225.8 227
3 223 222.6 223.4 221.2 224.6 222.2 222.4
4 220.2 223.4 224.6 221 222.8 220.6 222.6
5 222.2 224.2

That's starting on January 2nd, so much of that first week is just water weight. Prior to Christmas, I was as low as 216 entirely glycogen depleted and dehydrated.

[jjc89]

How long would you all wait before changing calorie amounts?

I'm 6'2, sitting at 224, 190lbs LBM or so.
I've been doing 3000 calories on lifting days, 2000 on off days, have 1-2 meals during the weekend where I cannot track, but nothing excessive or crazy (ie, turkey dinner, slice of pumpkin pie, stuck to fasting).

My weight has essentially been the same for 2 weeks:
1 233.6 235.2 233 229 231.6 228.2 227.2
2 226.4 227.2 227.6 226 227 225.8 227
3 223 222.6 223.4 221.2 224.6 222.2 222.4
4 220.2 223.4 224.6 221 222.8 220.6 222.6
5 222.2 224.2

That's starting on January 2nd, so much of that first week is just water weight. Prior to Christmas, I was as low as 216 entirely glycogen depleted and dehydrated.

I would wait one week or two at the most my friend.

[RRJ]

This has got to be one of the best decisions I've made when it comes to nutrition and dietary intake. I used to be at 350 lbs, and I'm at 233 right now. I had been making good progress and not stalling, but I felt tired all the time at 2000 calories a day, spread out. I was eating 25-40% of those at breakfast, as I've been told to do so. I would always end up feeling very sleepy 2-4 hours later and want to take a nap. I felt like monitoring my calories, eating healthy, and exercising for more than a year should have provided me with more energy. I changed to IF not to try to improve my loss, but to improve my energy. After about a week, I love it. I don't have that mid-day desire for a nap, I never really did care for breakfast, and now I can have larger, more satisfying meals that make me feel more awake in the evening than before. Great! To top it all off, this past week is the most weight I've dropped in a long time. It's probably related to water retention, but it's always nice to see the scale moving down quicker than normal.