Paleo

[NOVA888]

Dear god.

If this was any other topic I would swear you were a company representative.

For seeing doctors, lol? But now that you've mentioned it, I've often wondered similar, although in reverse. Why so much opposition to seeking authentic medical advice from a licensed MD, as opposed to taking advice from people on the internet?

[MrB1g]

For seeing doctors, lol? But now that you've mentioned it, I've often wondered similar, although in reverse. Why so much opposition to seeking authentic medical advice from a licensed MD, as opposed to taking advice from people on the internet?

What opposition? The only opposition I've seen is opposition you've implied and inferred. Again, I think you'd benefit more if you went and argued with Oxford graduate Mr Straw Man.

[freebirdmac]

Dear god.

If this was any other topic I would swear you were a company representative.

She is. She has something, or understands she does (definite questions regarding that) therefore everyone else must suffer the same malady. The gold standard for insulin resistance is not a simple blood test and is very expensive.

[NOVA888]

C'mon now. You didn't exactly come into the thread giving an unbiased opinion, lol.

No way am I unbiased. Never in regard to food, never! These types of discussions are all over the internet, but worst at the political level. Food is big business in this country, as are the food lobbyists. Weight loss is also a very lucrative industry. One can't speak against what each and every one of us should or shouldn't eat, but our doctors certainly can, as they're able to base our needs on scientific testing. Whether someone follows their doctors orders is another issue altogether.

My opinion--I strongly believe in seeing a licensed MD over following internet advice verbatim. Internet advice is simply too vast, and disagreements are aplenty. To any woman 'thinking' she needs keto/paleo, or any other controversial diet--see a doctor first (preferably a specialist), get your bloods drawn, and follow his or her dieting advice based on your specific needs. If you're not insulin resistant or borderline, then he or she will advise the norm, eat less/move more. But if you are....

[freebirdmac]

Pleased to hear this, very pleased! A simple blood test doesn't hurt anyone, and can reveal what these specific situations might actually be. Seeing an MD (specialist), offers more in the way of long term results than seeking blindly for that silver bullet year in and year out. An MD specialist has a much greater targeting accuracy than any of us online, even the best of us. Especially when not seeing the person face to face, getting the family history, etc.

The gold standard for insulin resistance is not a simple blood test and is very expensive. Honestly, you do not understand what you had done or what it means. You have a condition, or pre-condition and think everyone else must suffer the same malady. Yet you clearly don't even understand your own situation and testing.

Save your patronizing tone as well.

[NOVA888]

The gold standard for insulin resistance is not a simple blood test and is very expensive.

When one visits an endocrinologist, one first sits down for a chat. They ask about that person's concerns, and what brought them there. They scribble down notes, and then the gold standard is initiated--the blood work.

It is covered by most insurance, and if not, can be paid out of pocket (and not much). The benefit far outweighs the cost.

EDIT: You've negged me for this? Really? I have been nothing but polite in this thread, and was not once nasty, flaming, or patronizing to anyone. Oh, and I will not neg you in return. It's not my style.

This has proven to be a very interesting thread. Ladies, if you 'think' you're insulin resistant (have trouble with certain foods), book an appointment with an endocrinologist. It could be the best thing you can do, and will change your life dramatically. Don't dabble with diets, see a doctor instead.

Bai!

[MrB1g]

She is. She has something, or understands she does (definite questions regarding that) therefore everyone else must suffer the same malady. The gold standard for insulin resistance is not a simple blood test and is very expensive.

Insulin resistance would be proud of her efforts.

My opinion--I strongly believe in seeing a licensed MD...

Thank god you clarified your opinion! Up until this point I had no idea what exactly your stance was.

[freebirdmac]

When one visits an endocrinologist, one first sits down for a chat. They ask about that person's concerns, and what brought them there. They scribble down notes, and then the gold standard is initiated--the blood work.

It is covered by most insurance, and if not, can be paid out of pocket (and not much). The benefit far outweighs the cost.

Sigh.

http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pub...nce/#diagnosis

Glucose testing is routine and can easily be ordered by a GP. Referral to a specialist depending on the results and the GP's comfort in treating the patient. Glucose testing is not the gold standard. It is assumed that if you are diabetic or pre-diabetic that you have a resistance to insulin.

[andrerox80]

What I am against is this disease of the week as an explanation for not losing weight crap.

i know i'm staying out of the meat of this convo, but i so agree w/ this and it's the same w/ the diet of the week working or being the cause of results (vs consuming fewer cals).

op, are you still thinking abt doing paleo?

[paulett]

You think people magically lose weight by eating paleo? They lose weight because they eat fewer calories.

I think this is because most people don't realize how many calories are in bread, pasta, cheese, milk. Food like this gets cut out of their diet Plus they are eating more calorie dense foods like nuts and lots of other protein - you feel more satitated, so you are not grazing or hungry all the time.

[hieronymous]

Most are looking for that magic feather instead of doing the hard work required.

This is unfair to automatically assume of people.

[paulett]

not to hijack thread, but what's happened w/ weight watchers and their 'results' since fruit became free/0 points?



everyone and their mother thinks they're carb-sensitive. just like everyone thinks they must have a slow metabolism. for most people, it's really simple. they're eating too much.

The problem is this. While that may have been true when they first started to gain weight, it is often not true after being overweight or obese for years. Your muscle cell's develop insulin resistance over time. When you eat a diet high in carbs, your body has to produce high levels of insulin. Insulin causes imflammation. Your muscle cells get bombarded with insulin. Eventually cell receptors become so imflammed and distorted they can't take up the insulin/glucose effeciently. This causes your pancreas to produce even more insulin (hence why type two diabetics pancreas stop producing insulin - gets overworked). This is why it is so important for people who have insulin resistance to strength train. You create new muscle tissue that doesn't have damaged receptor sites. Same logic applies to lowering carb intake. You don't give more gas to engine that is already flooded.

Does this mean one has to eat this way forever? Probably not. Probably only as long as it takes to rebuild up some insulin sensititvity. Then I suspect that as long as one continues to strength train and eat within their macros, they will be fine.

[paulett]

^^This^^



C'mon now. You didn't exactly come into the thread giving an unbiased opinion, lol. In fact you didn't even pay attention to the fact that the OP doesn't seem at all to be the type of person to benefit from a low carb diet for her goals yet you went on and on about your results. Which are anectodal and biased, right? You can't pretend you are just leaving info for people to check out when what you are actually very strongly endorsing something, that's backpedaling. And wut about the 1 in 3 with diabetes as its related to low versus high carb??

The ADA is actually changing their diet guildines to be more low carb in light of the myriad of new research that has been done in the last 10 years. The biggest reason why the ADA has not got on the low carb wagon is because people have to substitute carbs with fat. Up until recently fat has been taboo.

[paulett]

The gold standard for insulin resistance is not a simple blood test and is very expensive. Honestly, you do not understand what you had done or what it means. You have a condition, or pre-condition and think everyone else must suffer the same malady. Yet you clearly don't even understand your own situation and testing.

Save your patronizing tone as well.

Fast Gluose and Glucose tolerance tests are covered by insurance. Unless you have ghetto insurance, your GP can order them for you. Doctors will look at other factors besides these types - your cholestrol levels, weight and more importantly where you carry your weight, and of course family history.

25 Million people have diabetes in this country (8.3% of the population). Three times that have pre-diabetes. Those are not small numbers.

[freebirdmac]

I think this is because most people don't realize how many calories are in bread, pasta, cheese, milk. Food like this gets cut out of their diet Plus they are eating more calorie dense foods like nuts and lots of other protein - you feel more satitated, so you are not grazing or hungry all the time.

And I think a diet that gives people that jump start on breaking bad habits isn't a bad thing. What is bad is when people use bad science to tout these types of diets. It's still cals in versus cals out. It's still portion control. It's still making a lifestyle change. One doesn't have to buy into the latest "breakthrough" diet and worse, think they have to stay on one forever.

This is unfair to automatically assume of people.

You've been here long enough to see loads of posts of this very nature. A lot of people will even straight up admit that they know diet is their whole problem.

The problem is this. While that may have been true when they first started to gain weight, it is often not true after being overweight or obese for years. Your muscle cell's develop insulin resistance over time. When you eat a diet high in carbs, your body has to produce high levels of insulin. Insulin causes imflammation. Your muscle cells get bombarded with insulin. Eventually cell receptors become so imflammed and distorted they can't take up the insulin/glucose effeciently. This causes your pancreas to produce even more insulin (hence why type two diabetics pancreas stop producing insulin - gets overworked). This is why it is so important for people who have insulin resistance to strength train. You create new muscle tissue that doesn't have damaged receptor sites. Same logic applies to lowering carb intake. You don't give more gas to engine that is already flooded.

Does this mean one has to eat this way forever? Probably not. Probably only as long as it takes to rebuild up some insulin sensititvity. Then I suspect that as long as one continues to strength train and eat within their macros, they will be fine.

The ADA is actually changing their diet guildines to be more low carb in light of the myriad of new research that has been done in the last 10 years. The biggest reason why the ADA has not got on the low carb wagon is because people have to substitute carbs with fat. Up until recently fat has been taboo.

You need to define low carb. For many, 200g of carbs would be a significant decrease and they would consider that low carb. On this site however, it's not. It's considered quite generous.

[andrerox80]

You've been here long enough to see loads of posts of this very nature. A lot of people will even straight up admit that they know diet is their whole problem.

or the posts that just ask abt fat burners and want and expect that to be enough.

[hieronymous]

You've been here long enough to see loads of posts of this very nature. A lot of people will even straight up admit that they know diet is their whole problem.

For sure, but it is often too easy to assume posters are all alike. There are a lot of posters who are intelligent and sensible too, and know that any sort of body change - to build muscle, lose fat, etc. takes work, time, consistency and dedication. I think 'most' is a bit of an exaggeration and also condescending.

[freebirdmac]

For sure, but it is often too easy to assume posters are all alike. There are a lot of posters who are intelligent and sensible too, and know that any sort of body change - to build muscle, lose fat, etc. takes work, time, consistency and dedication. I think 'most' is a bit of an exaggeration and also condescending.

If you do a statistical analysis on who posts and lurks I don't think I'd be wrong. Way too many threads and posts say differently.

How is this in any way condescending to those who don't fit the description? Most is not all.

[hieronymous]

How is this in any way condescending to those who don't fit the description? Most is not all.

It's condescending to those that do fit the description.

[freebirdmac]

It's condescending to those that do fit the description.

So, they don't fit and aren't "most". Nothing at all wrong or bad about being part of the minority.

[eleni611]

This is unfair to automatically assume of people.

Agreed. I definitely don't think I'm looking for a magic feather or taking the easy way out...I'd say it's pretty hard for somebody who loves carbs to follow a paleo diet. I am motivated to do this, and when I am motivated I don't fall off the wagon.

[eleni611]

i know i'm staying out of the meat of this convo, but i so agree w/ this and it's the same w/ the diet of the week working or being the cause of results (vs consuming fewer cals).

op, are you still thinking abt doing paleo?

Yes, I'm on day two today. I realize there is obviously a lot of controversy around this issue and I've just decided that the input and opinions are nice, but I just want to try this for myself and see what happens. I realize that there are many other ways to lose weight (believe me, I know-in high school I was very overweight and decided to go cold turkey and change my diet. I ate nothing BUT carbs and lost forty lbs, so I DO understand that carbs are not the enemy.) HOWEVER...this past semester in school has been busy, I haven't been able to get to the gym much, my diet has been out of whack, and I've put on ten lbs. I KNOW I could just go back to my regular way of eating, but I'd like to try something new. I don't see any problem with that, and carbs tend to make me crave more carbs, so I think this might help me with that.

[freebirdmac]

Agreed. I definitely don't think I'm looking for a magic feather or taking the easy way out...I'd say it's pretty hard for somebody who loves carbs to follow a paleo diet. I am motivated to do this, and when I am motivated I don't fall off the wagon.

You were not insulted. Not a reason in the world to feel that way. Your thread was hijacked and was no longer about your particular situation. It went way off tangent.

Yes, I'm on day two today. I realize there is obviously a lot of controversy around this issue and I've just decided that the input and opinions are nice, but I just want to try this for myself and see what happens. I realize that there are many other ways to lose weight (believe me, I know-in high school I was very overweight and decided to go cold turkey and change my diet. I ate nothing BUT carbs and lost forty lbs, so I DO understand that carbs are not the enemy.) HOWEVER...this past semester in school has been busy, I haven't been able to get to the gym much, my diet has been out of whack, and I've put on ten lbs. I KNOW I could just go back to my regular way of eating, but I'd like to try something new. I don't see any problem with that, and carbs tend to make me crave more carbs, so I think this might help me with that.

And it may. Recognizing weak points is crucial to revamping a diet for life. Dumping most carbs sources will give you a break and get you out of the habit. The next key is planning how to reintroduce those forbidden foods back into your life without ending up where you started.

[Miranda]

most people don't realize how many calories are in bread, pasta, cheese, milk. Food like this gets cut out of their diet Plus they are eating more calorie dense foods like nuts and lots of other protein - you feel more satitated, so you are not grazing or hungry all the time.

not to rip anything apart, but your statement contradicts itself. if eating calorie dense foods is satiating, and bread & co. have 'many calories' then it would follow eating them would be 'satiating'.

unless you mean carbs have many calories if you eat a LOT of them as opposed to, say, handful of nuts that might very well contain more calories per serving than a piece of toast.

and if energy density per serving was somehow the ticket, most cheeses are quite comparable to nuts. the only reason cheese isn't allowed, though, is because it is a dairy product.

as for carbs, paleo allows all bananas you want

[Rowyn]

The ADA is actually changing their diet guildines to be more low carb in light of the myriad of new research that has been done in the last 10 years. The biggest reason why the ADA has not got on the low carb wagon is because people have to substitute carbs with fat. Up until recently fat has been taboo.

Low carb, high carb, I don't care. What one of the posters was insinuating was that the diabetes epidemic in this country is created by carb intake versus the fact that diabetes and obesity are often seen in the same person.

25 Million people have diabetes in this country (8.3% of the population). Three times that have pre-diabetes. Those are not small numbers.

And what is the point of that in this thread? We were talking about low carb/high carb stuff, then all of a sudden we get this diabetes focus which makes carbs (versus sedentary lifestyle, obesity etc....) the "evil one".

I was pretty offended by the statement that people here are "against" medical advice? Huh? No one ever said that and I can't multiquote at the moment, but it seemed to me a way to put anyone who was in the discussion in a bad light when that was not the case at all.

[freebirdmac]

Timely in light of the diabetes talk http://todayhealth.today.msnbc.msn.c...e-her-diabetes

[Rowyn]

Timely in light of the diabetes talk http://todayhealth.today.msnbc.msn.c...e-her-diabetes

To copy paste the most pertinent point about this thread from the above article:

What’s important when it comes to diabetes prevention is not what you eat, but rather, how much, said Linda Siminerio, director of the Diabetes Institute at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center.

“To my knowledge no particular food has been linked to an increase in the risk of diabetes,” Siminerio said. “It’s being overweight and inactive.”

[hieronymous]

I wish they would change the name of Type II diabetes to something else. My Dad has Type 1 diabetes and since people tend to lump all types of diabetes into 'diabetes' it irks me that people might think it was his fault for getting it.

And yes, I tend to believe that a lot of people with Type II diabetes brought it upon themselves.

[dsm246]

Yes, I'm on day two today. I realize there is obviously a lot of controversy around this issue and I've just decided that the input and opinions are nice, but I just want to try this for myself and see what happens. I realize that there are many other ways to lose weight (believe me, I know-in high school I was very overweight and decided to go cold turkey and change my diet. I ate nothing BUT carbs and lost forty lbs, so I DO understand that carbs are not the enemy.) HOWEVER...this past semester in school has been busy, I haven't been able to get to the gym much, my diet has been out of whack, and I've put on ten lbs. I KNOW I could just go back to my regular way of eating, but I'd like to try something new. I don't see any problem with that, and carbs tend to make me crave more carbs, so I think this might help me with that.

Please report back on your experience later. I'm interested in hearing how your experience compares to my own and what your take-aways end up being on it. As an aside: Week 3 was the hardest one for me when I tried the plan - the novelty had worn off and I really started craving certain foods at that time. It took about 6 weeks to really settle into it and adjust.

[freebirdmac]

I wish they would change the name of Type II diabetes to something else. My Dad has Type 1 diabetes and since people tend to lump all types of diabetes into 'diabetes' it irks me that people might think it was his fault for getting it.

And yes, I tend to believe that a lot of people with Type II diabetes brought it upon themselves.

I agree. I have coworkers who have been type I since childhood. One in particular has had a terrible time maintaining her levels even though she is strict with her diet. Even the pump didn't help all the time. Type I is an entirely different disease.