l*** KRAV MAGA ***l

[1_COR_16.13_old]

1 Cor,

There are NO World Class martial artists in the IKMF not a single one! Incl. Eyal Yanilov etc. That's the problem a system that cannot turn out any World class martial artists in it's entire history is worrying. Not a single IKMF guy is devastatingly fast or powerful that I've seen or heard of, I've trained with Eyal & top guys incl. those from Global Instructors team - all are good at what they do, none not a single one is world class or even close, not one is really impressive. If you think or know any that are, post a link to video I've yet to see one.

Regarding bending forward , I meant in the ridiculous knife defence you bend forward at hips so the middle of your body is further away from knife as you simultaneously block/attack. This sort of nonsense, observe low defence for example :
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xfKM3OqC4_Q

It immobilizes you tempoararily & curiously no other martial art/self defence system I can think of uses such nonsense.

As for not complicated? You are kidding right.

Defence against stick Overhead strike - Stabbing defence block (pg. 64 Eyal's book)

Horizontal Swing from Side - diff block (pg.76)

Stab With Stick pg. 78 diff. defence.

etc, etc.

Tell me HOW MANY defences does IKMF have against punches such as a jab? Answer : LOADS too many to count maybe 15 or so! Against one type of punch!

STUPID TECHNIQUES: Eyal still personally teaches - low blocks and defences against Kicks, actually bending forward to block kicks with your arms! Works a treat until someone wraps their shin round your head when you bend forward!

Eyal is fond too of teaching Spinning kicks - spinning crescent kicks, spinning back kicks, etc. Even jump kicks.

As for not recognising Moni as KM Instructor, many have created their own history Eyal included! IKMA dispute his version of history & Instructor ranking from Imi , etc. Hence IKMA & IKMF not getting along these days. Moni has his own history he is Co-Creator of Krav Maga with Imi (least he has claimed it before & in print) that was when he was only around 18 years old! Despite too never having released ONE SINGLE photo of himself with Imi!

There is lot of good in IKMF but lot of bad too, you have seen those low blocks for kicks believe me they are taught!

Okay well I respect your opinions. I however still disagree and this is my opinion again based on personal experience and the fact the IKMF 'style' is the style used by the IDF. One thing I would like to just say is as far as I know in the length of training I have done, there is one main effective defence against a straigh jab.

Alot of politics in KM have destroyed Imi's original as have they done in many other styles. You will always get one MT instructor who will bag out another MT instructor. I have seen this in TKD alot.
It's just each to their own to be honest. All respect man to you and your views.

[DCarruso]

....One day a MT and a TKD guy meet. The MT guy wins.
Another day they meet again. The TKD guy wins.....

Unless you are talking about an undertrained MT guy, otherwise my money is on the MT guy wins every time. TKD training is a joke compared to the rigorous and realistic MT training.

[DCarruso]

1 Cor,

There are NO World Class martial artists in the IKMF not a single one! Incl. Eyal Yanilov etc. That's the problem a system that cannot turn out any World class martial artists in it's entire history is worrying. Not a single IKMF guy is devastatingly fast or powerful that I've seen or heard of, I've trained with Eyal & top guys incl. those from Global Instructors team - all are good at what they do, none not a single one is world class or even close, not one is really impressive. If you think or know any that are, post a link to video I've yet to see one.

Regarding bending forward , I meant in the ridiculous knife defence you bend forward at hips so the middle of your body is further away from knife as you simultaneously block/attack. This sort of nonsense, observe low defence for example :
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xfKM3OqC4_Q

It immobilizes you tempoararily & curiously no other martial art/self defence system I can think of uses such nonsense.

As for not complicated? You are kidding right.

Defence against stick Overhead strike - Stabbing defence block (pg. 64 Eyal's book)

Horizontal Swing from Side - diff block (pg.76)

Stab With Stick pg. 78 diff. defence.

etc, etc.

Tell me HOW MANY defences does IKMF have against punches such as a jab? Answer : LOADS too many to count maybe 15 or so! Against one type of punch!

STUPID TECHNIQUES: Eyal still personally teaches - low blocks and defences against Kicks, actually bending forward to block kicks with your arms! Works a treat until someone wraps their shin round your head when you bend forward!

Eyal is fond too of teaching Spinning kicks - spinning crescent kicks, spinning back kicks, etc. Even jump kicks.

As for not recognising Moni as KM Instructor, many have created their own history Eyal included! IKMA dispute his version of history & Instructor ranking from Imi , etc. Hence IKMA & IKMF not getting along these days. Moni has his own history he is Co-Creator of Krav Maga with Imi (least he has claimed it before & in print) that was when he was only around 18 years old! Despite too never having released ONE SINGLE photo of himself with Imi!

There is lot of good in IKMF but lot of bad too, you have seen those low blocks for kicks believe me they are taught!

Those defence techniques against knife will get you killed. Yike. Knife attack seldom happens in such over committed fashion, although the over committed fashion does happen often enough. The moment you run into a 'sewing' knife assault, then the KM techniques will fail 100% of the time. You will die with multiple stab wounds and slash wounds.

I had the opportunity to learn the hand to hand from someone who served in Sayaret Golani. It is completely different from the KM taught to civilians. I have reason to believe that the KM being marketed to the public is completely watered down to remove all the lethal techniques. The watered down civilian KM is perfectly suited for your typical housewives, and kids and people who are unlikely to encounter vicious criminal attacks. Against your average street muggers, opportunistic thieves, rapist wannabe, bar bullies, pissed off soccer mums or soccer dads, school bullies, civilian KM shines. Civilian KM isn't about producing world class fighters. For vicious hand to hand, there is real world combatives.

[1_COR_16.13_old]

Unless you are talking about an undertrained MT guy, otherwise my money is on the MT guy wins every time. TKD training is a joke compared to the rigorous and realistic MT training.

Yeah I'm just taking a 'chance' outcome. I have trained in TKD, not long though. I have watched plenty of MT and to be honest, fair for fair, a MT guy would probably devastate a TKD guy. MT is brutal and as long as the MT guy avoided the first initial TKD kicks, he would smash him.

I loved TKD though. The instructor was beautiful. Pretty, athletic, young blonde woman. Lol. She was a good fighter too. Other than that it was only 'fun'.

[1_COR_16.13_old]

Those defence techniques against knife will get you killed. Yike. Knife attack seldom happens in such over committed fashion, although the over committed fashion does happen often enough. The moment you run into a 'sewing' knife assault, then the KM techniques will fail 100% of the time. You will die with multiple stab wounds and slash wounds.

I had the opportunity to learn the hand to hand from someone who served in Sayaret Golani. It is completely different from the KM taught to civilians. I have reason to believe that the KM being marketed to the public is completely watered down to remove all the lethal techniques. The watered down civilian KM is perfectly suited for your typical housewives, and kids and people who are unlikely to encounter vicious criminal attacks. Against your average street muggers, opportunistic thieves, rapist wannabe, bar bullies, pissed off soccer mums or soccer dads, school bullies, civilian KM shines. Civilian KM isn't about producing world class fighters. For vicious hand to hand, there is real world combatives.

I have trained under Military, Personal Protection (bodyguard) and Civlian KM. It is different in some techniques learnt. For instance a Military KM guy learns how to deflect a rifle with a bayonet. Civilian won't but will learn knife defence.
This is where common sense comes into action. When addressing said techniques, one needs to look at all possible avenues of attack.
With my instructors, I trust them because they are former Israel Special Forces. I know them enough to trust them. Though if something is shown, I am always eager to ask questions "Ah but what if this happens?" or "What if the guy does this?"

I must say simply, with a jabbing knife attack coming from an angle, it's a deflection mid-forearm. It works IF it is immediately followed by strikes to the face/throat.
If it's a jabbing knife attack straight at you, it's harder but twisting the torso out of the line of sight, immediately grabbing the wrist and striking the face/throat.
If it's just a stationery knife threat. No immediate danger. It's the same as gun defence. Manipulating the wrist violently to release the grip, immediately followed by strikes.

I am going to try and find such defences I agree with on youtube or something to demonstrate (not prove) my point.

I agree that it that some institutions water it down. For example, one on one you take a guy down, he's getting back up. Some say run for your life while you got the chance.
No. Stomp his stuffin' head into the ground a few times than take off. What if this guy chases and captures you, you know.
Imo TRUE KM is
1) Fast with minimum strikes
2) Retzev (Defence and Offence at the same time)
3) Always assumes there is more than one attacker
4) Neutralising in that you damage your opponent enough to stop them trying to get you.
5) Effective based on realistic techniques AND common sense.

[WindyKO]

I have trained under Military, Personal Protection (bodyguard) and Civlian KM. It is different in some techniques learnt. For instance a Military KM guy learns how to deflect a rifle with a bayonet. Civilian won't but will learn knife defence.
This is where common sense comes into action. When addressing said techniques, one needs to look at all possible avenues of attack.
With my instructors, I trust them because they are former Israel Special Forces. I know them enough to trust them. Though if something is shown, I am always eager to ask questions "Ah but what if this happens?" or "What if the guy does this?"

I must say simply, with a jabbing knife attack coming from an angle, it's a deflection mid-forearm. It works IF it is immediately followed by strikes to the face/throat.
If it's a jabbing knife attack straight at you, it's harder but twisting the torso out of the line of sight, immediately grabbing the wrist and striking the face/throat.
If it's just a stationery knife threat. No immediate danger. It's the same as gun defence. Manipulating the wrist violently to release the grip, immediately followed by strikes.

I am going to try and find such defences I agree with on youtube or something to demonstrate (not prove) my point.

I agree that it that some institutions water it down. For example, one on one you take a guy down, he's getting back up. Some say run for your life while you got the chance.
No. Stomp his stuffin' head into the ground a few times than take off. What if this guy chases and captures you, you know.
Imo TRUE KM is
1) Fast with minimum strikes
2) Retzev (Defence and Offence at the same time)
3) Always assumes there is more than one attacker
4) Neutralising in that you damage your opponent enough to stop them trying to get you.
5) Effective based on realistic techniques AND common sense.

u seriously look like a ninja. would not want to meet you in a dark alley lol

[1_COR_16.13_old]

u seriously look like a ninja. would not want to meet you in a dark alley lol

I'd be an idiot for being in the dark alley in the first place. Lol.

[1_COR_16.13_old]

BuMP

[ShaolinSoccer]

As for Muay Thai vs TKD however that came into a Krav Maga thread? The TKD would absolutely slaughter the Muay Thai guy under TKD rules (ITF or WTF), vice versa under Thai boxing or K1 rules the TKD would get slaughtered. Muay Thai is so slow & clumsy, under TKD rules they would get wiped out especially using basically a poor push front kick that tickles more than hurts (rare to see any damage done with it) and rear thai hook kick. Most good TKD fighters are very sharp with lead leg, anyone trying a clumsy rear thai kick above waist level would get clocked with lead leg strikes.

Regarding Military / Civilian, etc KM - a con to fleece more money out of gullible students! They could teach it all in one course , but far more money & 'fleecing' can be done with separate courses : Civilan / Military / Law Enforcement / Defence Against Domestic Pets & Wildlife Animals, etc. Especially in IKMF they charge silly amounts of money to do all the courses.

Numerous KM organisations make many false & bogus claims! The IKMF system is NOT taught to all Special Forces in Israel nor the general Military / Commando Krav Maga (Moni Aizik) is NOT taught to Special Forces in Israel, etc. Yet they would have you believe the elite Special Forces in Israel exclusively use their system or are trained by them.

[1_COR_16.13_old]

Regarding Military / Civilian, etc KM - a con to fleece more money out of gullible students! They could teach it all in one course , but far more money & 'fleecing' can be done with separate courses : Civilan / Military / Law Enforcement / Defence Against Domestic Pets & Wildlife Animals, etc. Especially in IKMF they charge silly amounts of money to do all the courses.

Numerous KM organisations make many false & bogus claims! The IKMF system is NOT taught to all Special Forces in Israel nor the general Military / Commando Krav Maga (Moni Aizik) is NOT taught to Special Forces in Israel, etc. Yet they would have you believe the elite Special Forces in Israel exclusively use their system or are trained by them.

*Sigh*
The following are legit quotes from various KM websites:

The system was developed by Imi Lichtenfeld . . . Israel Krav Maga was adopted as the official fighting style of the Israel Defense Forces and the Israel Police Force.

Krav Maga is taught to all units of the Israel Defense Forces , the amount depends upon the unit. As such nearly everyone in Israel has some Krav Maga training. Depending on the unit, knife and gun disarms are also taught. All training involves strict discipline, aggressiveness and a warrior mindset.

Eyal Yanilov (1959- ) is the Chief Instructor of the International Krav Maga Federation.

Mr. Yanilov began training in Krav Maga in 1973 and holds the Master level 3/Expert level 8 grade, granted by Imi Sde-Or, the founder of Krav Maga. He also holds the unique "Founder's Diploma of Excellence", which was given to only one other practitioner, Darren Levine . . .and has served as the Grand master's closest assistant and foremost disciple since the early 1980s. Active in this field since 1974, he is now its most senior instructor. Mr. Yanilov is the only individual who carries the highest grade ever given by Imi (Master level 3 / Expert level 8) and holds the unique ?Founder's Diploma of Excellence" (This diploma was given only to two persons).

From this ^^^ we see:
1) The system developed by Imi Lichtenfeld (Sde-Or) was the system adopted by the IDF and IPF.
2) This system is taught to many, if not all, members of the IDF.
3) Eyal Yanilov was Imi's main and highest instructor, having recieved the highest awards from the founder. He is the grandmaster of IKMF.
4) The only other guy to recieved such honors from Imi was Darren Levine not Moni Aztik. As you said earlier, he doesn't have one print or photo with him as far as we know.

So it can be said that IKMF, created by the highest KM instructor now days - approved by the founder - is the adopted system of the IDF as they both were recieved by Imi's teachings. No where does it say the IDF scrapped this style of the system once Imi passed away.

I am open to the fact that the system may be changed slightly by individual chief instructors of various IDF units but they still are founded on Imi's principles, who Eyal Yanilov rightfully upholds now days.

I cannot openly convince nor be convinced that every IKMF class around the world follows Eyal Yanilov's teachings. There can be no guarantee about that though Eyal does regular trips around the world, to 'spectate' on IKMF classes. Some may charge way more than is necessary but you will find this 'trait' in all styles of martial arts.

About CKM, they can also be claimed to be a money-making scheme.

Your first intensive training program will cover Levels 1 & 2. Upon successful completion, you will be certified as a CKM Level 2 Instructor.Thereafter, you will progress level by level.

The Instructor?s Training Program includes an exciting curriculum at the highest professional level, teaching skills, tactical & mental skills, CKM fighting principles, training methods and more!

Incorporate reality-based scenarios into your program by using the latest scientific military training methods modified for civilian use. This will guarantee your program to be unique while giving you and your students the best results!

That's all well and said until you look at the details of the course:

December 5-8 -2008 United States California Redondo Beach Instructor /Boot Camp Level 1,2

So the course, like all listed, even the ones I enquired about go for 3-4 days.

So to become a qualified Level 1 and 2 CKM instructor you need to do a 3-4 day course. Compared to other KM institutions which require at least 3-4 years of intense training before they see you becoming an instructor.
Sure you can learn much in 3-4 days of heavy training but I don't think it makes you worthy to go and teach KM for yourself.
As said, I have no doubt Moni is a brutal fighter, I, like many Kravists, questio his course structure and such. He openly confesses that CKM will teach you to beat [b]any[/] opponent. This is giving out false courage imo.

I know you aren't supporting CKM but I am just pointing it out.

Anyway this wasn't intended to be a debate thread. Just a discussion thread so hopefully we can keep it at that.

[ShaolinSoccer]

You are being LIED to & deceived.

Why don't you look into the evidence NOW for how much or little IKMF (Imi) style is taught in todays Army & Special Forces in Israel.

Forget silly quotes, I'm talking now.

The IKMF nonsense is no more taught nor used by the Special Forces in Israel, than the deadly Systema of Mikhail 'Porky' Rubiynov, etc.

Systema would have you believe their stuff has been taught & used by all Special Forces for years, it hasn't! Have you seen a lot of Systema & seriously believe it is used by Special Forces in real life & death situations.

Please post a link of ANY IKMF guy you consider an exceptional martial artist? I've not seen a single one. There are guys good at Krav Maga of course but if we are talking exceptionally fast, powerful, versatile, timing, etc I've come across none incl. Eyal & Global Instructors team.

I've been to Israel met people in regular Army, some in Special Forces & Mossad too, they laugh at Eyal Yanilov's IKMF claims & laugh too at Moni Aizik's claims that their art is taught to Special forces, etc!

[ShaolinSoccer]

Email Jim Wagner or others they will tell you same! Have you been to Israel met many people? Maybe not & are being fed a lot of exaggerated claims from IKMF sources.

[1_COR_16.13_old]

You are being LIED to & deceived.

Why don't you look into the evidence NOW for how much or little IKMF (Imi) style is taught in todays Army & Special Forces in Israel.

Forget silly quotes, I'm talking now.

The IKMF nonsense is no more taught nor used by the Special Forces in Israel, than the deadly Systema of Mikhail 'Porky' Rubiynov, etc.

Systema would have you believe their stuff has been taught & used by all Special Forces for years, it hasn't! Have you seen a lot of Systema & seriously believe it is used by Special Forces in real life & death situations.

Please post a link of ANY IKMF guy you consider an exceptional martial artist? I've not seen a single one. There are guys good at Krav Maga of course but if we are talking exceptionally fast, powerful, versatile, timing, etc I've come across none incl. Eyal & Global Instructors team.

I've been to Israel met people in regular Army, some in Special Forces & Mossad too, they laugh at Eyal Yanilov's IKMF claims & laugh too at Moni Aizik's claims that their art is taught to Special forces, etc!

LOl you have spoken to Moss?
I am sure you have spoken to some that you didn't even know were Moss. Just saying . . . I am sure alot of people have met a-Israeli national or Foreign-Mossad agent.

Look there is no convincing you. I have offered several evidential quotes from various KM websites, not all of them being IKMF orientated. One of those particular quotes came from the DuvDevan (English) website. DuvDevan is probably one of the best SF units in Israel. You already knew that right.
In addition I have several friends who are great instructors and served in different SF units such as Matkal. One or two of them are from the Paratrooper brigade. So they are from a vast selection of the IDF.
Itay Gil, no assosciation to IKMF, is a National and International well-renowned personal protection service provider. PROTECT. Maybe you have heard of them?
While not IKMF, it is very similar and he was a member of YAMAN.

There is no convincing you though. Your mind has already been made up.
Whether or not I have been to Israel or any other nation for that matter can't be disclosed to you, my apologies.

[Elfie.]

Thanks for this thread. I'm starting Krava Maga soon and I'm really looking forward to it.

[mjfan12]

anyone can fight dirty, dont need special training to attack the nuts, eyes, or throat.

[1_COR_16.13_old]

Thanks for this thread. I'm starting Krava Maga soon and I'm really looking forward to it.

Great stuff.
Being female, and this is not a sexist comment, but in your case I would see if the institution you are training with has an additional rape-defence workshop. I mean, in a rape situation, the majority of the time, the attacker would take the defender to the floor.
Most KM places will teach this anyway but some offer additional workshops which can include 4-5 hours of training over 1-2 days. They are great.

anyone can fight dirty, dont need special training to attack the nuts, eyes, or throat.

Yes, anyone can fight dirty but the natural instinct/reaction of a human rarely saves them from an immediate danger. When put into certain situation, not everyone thinks to attack specific areas or do specific moves, under such pressure.
That's why Krav Maga, like many martial arts, teach you to do such techniques when faced with danger.

An example is a suprise choke-hold from the front. That natural reaction? (Stick the tongue out LOL) and Try pulling the hands away from the throat. If the attacker has a firm-grip or is much stronger than the defender, this natural reaction is worthless.
Krav Maga, in such a case, depends not on one's strength to free themself but a fast movement that requires little effort. The result. A fast, thrusting pull at the attacker's wrists followed by a kick/knee to the groin and/or a combination of punches.

[Thomas.of.Hunter]

i've seen some km gun defense videos..all of which had the attacker holding the weapon with one hand...what if the attacker is holding the gun with two hands/weaver style

[1_COR_16.13_old]

i've seen some km gun defense videos..all of which had the attacker holding the weapon with one hand...what if the attacker is holding the gun with two hands/weaver style

Is this from the guy with black hair on youtube, who says "never raise your hands when a gun is pointed at you." Is that him?

The reason I ask is because with the gun defence we know, it can be done even if the gun is held with one or two hands.
The above video I speak of, wouldn't work with two hands because the resistance would be great than the defence 'push'. Hard for me to explain.

If the video you saw is on youtube, post it here or where I can find it.

[1_COR_16.13_old]

The reason for this post is because I have recieved a few PM since starting this thread, asking about my opinions and/or knowledge on Commando Krav Maga.
Though I have spoke a little about it here, I will elaborate now with a reliable outside source.
This is a post from an IDF Krav Maga Instructor. While I cannot verify the poster is who he says he is, the claims he makes in the post below are accurate with the claims made by other Krav Maga instructors.

What you will get from this post is:
*False claims made by Moni Aizik
*He does not teach Krav Maga or is/has been affliated to Krav Maga

I don't see this as a 'hate post' but just a warning to those who want to do actual KM, to avoid CKM.
Moni Aizik is a great fighter, as mentioned, however he makes many false claims in his history, art and advertising.

I am currently a krav maga instructor in the IDF. The name Moni Aizik, whos real name is actually Menahem Aizik has been brought to our attention so many times over the course of the last year mostly by people who just want to know if what he is advertising is true or not. I am posting because the fact is that what Moni has done was create a lot of confusion about what real krav maga is and that is harmful to all instructors that dedicate themselves to krav maga.

No one here is criticizing Moni Aizik as an instructor. It?s well understood that he is a very talented martial arts instructor with numerous martial arts achievements that include being the Israeli youth league judo champion. What we have an issue with are his claims that relate to his association with krav maga and the Israeli special forces, so please, all of you Moni fans, supporters, and instructors we can respect your appreciation and love for ckm, but don?t respond with your ?go fight Moni, he?ll beat you, and you?l be sorry? responses, it does not prove a thing about his claims.

What I am writing here is part of what I know and other parts of what other instructors I serve with and commanders that we checked with know to be fact. There are 2 parts to understand here 1 is the facts about krav maga as it is in the IDF from the beginning to today and 2 is how Moni is connected to krav maga and the army today.

1 ? There are 2 official bodies that govern krav maga in the army first is wingate which is in charge of general krav maga for the entire army, and the second is the counter terror school which is in charge of krav maga for the special forces. In 1948 Imi came to serve in the IDF , created krav maga and was the first ramad krav maga (wich means the head of krav maga). At this point kapap became extinct and krav maga became the official system of the IDF. Imi retired from the army in 1968 (he NEVER came back to the army from retirement, as Moni says he was assigned to work with Imi on updating krav maga in 1974!)

In 1968 after Imi, Eli avikzar became the ramad krav maga until 1981, then Boaz Aviram until 1983, then Ilan Yona, then Shachar, and today Ran Nakash. No one on this list knows Moni as being an instructor to the IDF at any point in time.

Krav maga is a generic name for hand to hand combat in Hebrew, but it is NOT a generic system! It is a very specific system with specific strategy and tactics, and that is the system that the IDF uses. What Moni teaches has nothing to do with krav maga and any one can see that. His system may be good or maybe not, I am not going to give my judgement on it, but it is not what is required for the IDF or the IDF special units and the IDF would never adopt a system like that.

Let?s talk now about facts about Moni and his attachment to the special forces today. Moni advertises that he served in a special unit called sayeret. There is no such thing as a unit called sayeret, sayeret is the term given to special units that conduct patrol operations, every unit that is patrol operations certified is called a sayeret. Out of all the people that are real veterans of the special forces that advertise themselves in public, Moni is the only one that refuses to say in wich unit he actually served in. He says that his unit of 74 soldiers was ambushed in the yom kipur war and that everyone was killed exept for 6 and that his unit was disbanded because of this ambush, anyone can check with the IDF office of morakim (wich means historical events, they have the files of all events every unit ever been through) if that is a true story. The Lieutenant Colonel in charge of that office served for 25 years in the army (15 years in sayeret golani) and confirmed that that is not a true story. There was no unit that was ambushed during the war and lost that many soldiers and was then disbanded.

Moni did not serve in an elite commando unit.

He was not assigne to Imi to ?revamp? krav maga.

He had nothing to do with the advancement of krav maga for the IDF.

He has been to Israel several times over the last few years and gave complimentry seminars to regular soldiers. This is something that many of instructors from different organizations do. There is nothing official about it and it has nothing to do with the regular krav maga training any units get in the IDF. His system ckm is not use by any units in the army.

Last December Ran Nakash agreed to let Moni come to wingate to do a complimentry 3 days seminar to a few instructors. 7 instructors came, 5 from wingate krav maga division and 2 from a special unit that are friends of mine. The 2 from the special units did not bother going back for the last 2 days because of what they say after the first day they realize it is not a system that is relevant to them.

Moni claims that he trains the army?s sayeret units and the yamam. He does not train any sayeret units, every sayeret unit has their own krav maga instructors, we have ALL got together and discuss Moni Aizik, no one knows him and no one ever arrange to bring him in to train the sayeret units they are responsible for. If in fact Moni did come to train sayeret units it would be done at one place and one place that is the counter terror school (the lotar) it is fact that he has never been there.

As for the yamam, not only did we check with official channels at the yamam, but one of my best friends serving in a special unit in the army has a brother in law that is already 6 years in the yamam as a fighter. NO ONE AT YAMAM KNOW OF MONI AIZIK! He does not train the yamam. When we checked, the head instructor said beside saying Moni Aizik has never trained our unit and does not train our unit, first what sense does it make to bring a guy from Canada to train us when we have our own instructors and to fly to Israel from Canada once a month at around $1200 a flight ticket every time, do you realy think the yamam will pay that money!! The only person they confirm came to do a complintery seminar at the yamam was carlos Newton of the ufc.

Part of the reason why Moni does what he does is in fact because Mr. darrin Levin of L.A. krav maga use to own the trademark to the name krav maga, and that forced many instructors to make up names and stories about their authentic krav maga or made up systems to still be able to teach and advertise. Moni, like a few other instructors went further by trying to also take the attention away from L.A. krav maga by advertising that krav maga is no longer the system used by the IDF and that there are other secret systems. Some of these instructors even claim that Lotar is the system the special forces learn for hand to hand and that their system contains lotar! Lotar is the word for counter terror in Hebrew, it is not a system of any kind, it contains training in counter terror operations like hostage rescue on buildings, buses, and airplanes and shooting!

Although the krav maga that we teach here in the special forces is in fact different then American krav maga, the official system of the IDF regular forces and Special Forces is krav maga and only krav maga.

I hope people will be smarter about what they believe when they see instructors advertising!

Y.

[ShaolinSoccer]

Good post on Moni Aizik , I've always found his claims rather suspect. Especially since as pointed out already if he co-created the system with Imi , why CKM bears little resemplence to IKMF/IKMA Krav Maga? Even looking at historical films of Imi or photos etc at the time Moni claims to have trained with him - what Imi taught was nothing like CKM.

It is truly AMAZING martial arts magazines take all his claims & print them as fact without checking them out. Creating KM with Imi when there has NEVER been a single photo of Imi & Moni together printed.

Surprising too his Instructors believe his claims with little proof.

CKM may be good system & if some prefer it to other KM that is fine but Moni's claims to have taught it for decades is bit suspect, nobody had heard of him until he moved to Canada apparently to evade tax/money problems in Israel.

But who knows Jim Wagner knows his stuff & the history he believes Moni's claims! A lot of political propaganda thrown around, go ask IKMA about Eyal Yanilov and his claims & rank etc! Each KM body or organisation has their own respective 'true' history of KM.

[1_COR_16.13_old]

Good post on Moni Aizik , I've always found his claims rather suspect. Especially since as pointed out already if he co-created the system with Imi , why CKM bears little resemplence to IKMF/IKMA Krav Maga? Even looking at historical films of Imi or photos etc at the time Moni claims to have trained with him - what Imi taught was nothing like CKM.

It is truly AMAZING martial arts magazines take all his claims & print them as fact without checking them out. Creating KM with Imi when there has NEVER been a single photo of Imi & Moni together printed.

Surprising too his Instructors believe his claims with little proof.

CKM may be good system & if some prefer it to other KM that is fine but Moni's claims to have taught it for decades is bit suspect, nobody had heard of him until he moved to Canada apparently to evade tax/money problems in Israel.

But who knows Jim Wagner knows his stuff & the history he believes Moni's claims! A lot of political propaganda thrown around, go ask IKMA about Eyal Yanilov and his claims & rank etc! Each KM body or organisation has their own respective 'true' history of KM.

True this. I liked the bold text above, as you said it before, I was unaware of this and searched it up. Thanks for that.
There is one thing I investigated and that was DuvDevan's english website. DuvDevan is a unit of Israeli SF. Through their website, don't know how I go there and would have to retrace my steps, I found photocopy documents of letters addressed to former KM Instructors of the Unit. I'm trying to see if other SF units have similar documents.

[1_COR_16.13_old]

These are the popular-as in they have a collection of videos and/or books available to the public-instructors that I recommend if you wish to read books, check videos out or look into institution.
Besides this list, there are plenty of KM instructors that are excellent!!! At what they do. I, for one, believe my personal instructors are top of the range.
The below are just KM 'celebrities' whose techniques I agree, or come close to agreeing, with.


Eyal Yanilov
Gaby Noah
Ron Nakash
Amir Perets
Emmanuel Ayache
Haim Gidon
David Khan

[1_COR_16.13_old]

BuMP

[Thomas.of.Hunter]

Is this from the guy with black hair on youtube, who says "never raise your hands when a gun is pointed at you." Is that him?

The reason I ask is because with the gun defence we know, it can be done even if the gun is held with one or two hands.
The above video I speak of, wouldn't work with two hands because the resistance would be great than the defence 'push'. Hard for me to explain.

If the video you saw is on youtube, post it here or where I can find it.

yeah that was one that i was talking about and i've seen some more. i'll try to find one when i have more time

[1_COR_16.13_old]

yeah that was one that i was talking about and i've seen some more. i'll try to find one when i have more time

Yeah. Well tbh that guy's theory of not raising your hands is wrong for a couple of reasons. First, raising your hands puts you into a submissive stance and this can give the impression that you are afraid, in turn making the attacker feel more comfortable.
Secondly, with your hands raised, you can perform a good twist of the body, moving the gun out of the line of fire. In the video you speak of, he has his hands down. It takes longer for the hands to come up and push the gun away, than it is for the hands to already be up. The longer the movement takes, even if microseconds, the more chance you have of this gunman shooting you.

I will try and post a video of both examples.

[1_COR_16.13_old]

This is the video, I personally, don't agree with. While it may work, there is a greater chance of failure, since the move takes longer even if by microseconds.

A video of the technique I suggest, I can't find on youtube right now but I'll keep looking. If not, in the next couple of days I'll post some demonstration videos up of it.

[Thomas.of.Hunter]

This is the video, I personally, don't agree with. While it may work, there is a greater chance of failure, since the move takes longer even if by microseconds.

A video of the technique I suggest, I can't find on youtube right now but I'll keep looking. If not, in the next couple of days I'll post some demonstration videos up of it.

alright cool.

[1_COR_16.13_old]

Bump

[Andystm]

I just made a thread about this and was given this link.

It seems like you guys now what you are talking about, but i was under the assumption that this is not an actual martial art as such?

Anyway, I found a gym near me that does it (to my suprise) and I'm going to take a walk later and check it out for prices etc. It's legit. Also, how long would it take for me to start getting a grip of it considering I have no formation in any fighting or self defense techniques (apart from karata classes when i was like NINE lol).

[ShaolinSoccer]

1Cor,

Regarding the IDF Military guy you quoted a lot of what he is saying is made up BS! Some might be true but a lot is not.

FACT : Moni Aizik has taught Yaman Israeli Special Forces! Avi Nardia & others can verify it, in fact he has video footage of them training them. So supposed miltary source saying he has never trained Yaman is either lying or is not a military source at all just an Internet kid making things up.

Does he still teach them as claimed? Who knows but he has for sure.

Anyway you may find this interesting on Moni Aizik :

http://www.realitybasedtraining.co.uk/commando.html

Personally I don't believe Moni's claims of working with Imi Lichtenfeld, etc but teaching Yaman he has for sure.