German Academies of Science: Energytransition is an economical nightmare (Big hits!)

[dannyg1217]

Another EE who has no idea how nuclear fuel cycles work.

The more reactors there are, the more potential for accidents. That's how fractions work, dumbfuk.

tell that to France who has third gen reactors. Meanwhile you're in your parents basement reading a few articles written by journalists and not engineers and think you know something. They make encapuslated fuel and reactors that self contain on meltdown, this isnt the 50s tech that you're aware of.
Any post I've ever read of yours that relates to energy has been utter bull, meanwhile, I get paid to analyze and make energy related decisions for a utility company. I wonder who knows more.

[DuracellBunny]

works great in some places, how many regions have enough storage dams to actually do this, less tan 10%, most that do have already exhausted this or are close to it. That's not a reasonable solution and could come no where close to supplying US or any other countries energy demands.

Edit: probably less than 2%, I work.in grid level utilities, right now we use this and we get well under 1% and that's tapped out because there are various factors needed for this to actually work. It's a pipe dream

Hence me saying "where practical".

I initially stated this as a backup to renewables (and then went on to explain what it was). If you work in the industry, you know that the biggest problem with renewables is the variability in supply and things such as pump storage effectively dampen the peaks and troughs.

People talk about large masses of electrical batteries and gaze adoringly at Elon Musk, when that just isn't viable. If the world is going to move to a more renewable basis, it will have to use mechanical storage methods, such as pumped storage, as opposed to high tech ones, due to tech export controls, dual use restrictons and cost (even disregarding the materials necessary for the batteries).

[chaunce54]

Hence me saying "where practical".

I initially stated this as a backup to renewables (and then went on to explain what it was). If you work in the industry, you know that the biggest problem with renewables is the variability in supply and things such as pump storage effectively dampen the peaks and troughs.

People talk about large masses of electrical batteries and gaze adoringly at Elon Musk, when that just isn't viable. If the world is going to move to a more renewable basis, it will have to use mechanical storage methods, such as pumped storage, as opposed to high tech ones, due to tech export controls, dual use restrictons and cost (even disregarding the materials necessary for the batteries).

People also don't take into account the noxious chemicals used in those batteries. If these batteries make it into landfills, these chemicals can potentially leach into waterways and water supplies.

[Sakeoe]

Hence me saying "where practical".

I initially stated this as a backup to renewables (and then went on to explain what it was). If you work in the industry, you know that the biggest problem with renewables is the variability in supply and things such as pump storage effectively dampen the peaks and troughs.

People talk about large masses of electrical batteries and gaze adoringly at Elon Musk, when that just isn't viable. If the world is going to move to a more renewable basis, it will have to use mechanical storage methods, such as pumped storage, as opposed to high tech ones, due to tech export controls, dual use restrictons and cost (even disregarding the materials necessary for the batteries).

The scientists in the study do acknowledge this, they're hinting at power to gas and power to liquid for synthetic fuels as solution.

[gregxy]

https://www.cnn.com/style/article/mb...ntl/index.html

Here are about 20 large solar facilities being built, mostly in China. They are about 500 to 1000MW,
about the size of a nuclear plant (assuming the 1000MW is average, not peak).

Per capita CO2 emissions:

USA, Canada, Australia ~20
Russia ~15
Germany 11
UK, China 8.4
France 6.9
India 2.3

The fact that UK is less than 1/2 of the USA is interesting, They have built a lot of windmills,
but also have smaller houses and cars. China is probably at their peak CO2.

[dannyg1217]

Hence me saying "where practical".

I initially stated this as a backup to renewables (and then went on to explain what it was). If you work in the industry, you know that the biggest problem with renewables is the variability in supply and things such as pump storage effectively dampen the peaks and troughs.

People talk about large masses of electrical batteries and gaze adoringly at Elon Musk, when that just isn't viable. If the world is going to move to a more renewable basis, it will have to use mechanical storage methods, such as pumped storage, as opposed to high tech ones, due to tech export controls, dual use restrictons and cost (even disregarding the materials necessary for the batteries).

sure, where practical, but you need mountains, a reservoir, and last you need transmission lines to that likely remote area. Of course realizing that its millions of dollars per mile of transmission line and it can literally take a decade to build due to rules, regulations, and red tape.

Its just not worth mentioning in this discussion as a fix to our problems.

Also batteries are good for frequency control, peak shaving and that's really about it. If we want carbon free and plentiful electricity then it truly is nuclear that we should be looking at.

[dannyg1217]

https://www.cnn.com/style/article/mb...ntl/index.html

Here are about 20 large solar facilities being built, mostly in China. They are about 500 to 1000MW,
about the size of a nuclear plant (assuming the 1000MW is average, not peak).

Per capita CO2 emissions:

USA, Canada, Australia ~20
Russia ~15
Germany 11
UK, China 8.4
France 6.9
India 2.3

The fact that UK is less than 1/2 of the USA is interesting, They have built a lot of windmills,
but also have smaller houses and cars. China is probably at their peak CO2.

its very disingenuous to compare these solar plants to a nuclear plant. The capacity factor for solar over a year is about 10 percent plus or minus 5. The capacity factor for a nuclear plant is 90 to 95 percent. So all of those solar farms are the equivalent of one nuclear power plant, except with a major caviate being that they are not reliable and very hard to even forecast.

[DuracellBunny]

sure, where practical, but you need mountains, a reservoir, and last you need transmission lines to that likely remote area. Of course realizing that its millions of dollars per mile of transmission line and it can literally take a decade to build due to rules, regulations, and red tape.

Its just not worth mentioning in this discussion as a fix to our problems.

Also batteries are good for frequency control, peak shaving and that's really about it. If we want carbon free and plentiful electricity then it truly is nuclear that we should be looking at.

Nuclear is only realistic for certain countries i.e. an expansion of the existing nuclear energy programs. If you have nuclear energy, you can make nuclear weapons, which many countries, the US amongst them, isn't going to allow.

So yes, nuclear will help the US, Europe, China, India, Japan etc, but many countries are never going to be allowed to develop it. Even if just the countries with existing nuclear energy programs went full nuclear, they would run in to materials shortages.

Nuclear has to be part of the solution, there is no other way to make up the shortfall in the near term, but even nuclear won't keep up demand in the mid term, let alone the long term.

Long term, there has to be a reduction in usage, combined with generation capability that doesn't involve restricted tech or materials with restricted supply (materials for construction, not just "fuel").

I personally think that we will end up with genetically modified organisms producing hydrocarbons on a large scale, such as algae that produces methane, that can be grown anywhere with basic hydroponics capability.

[gregxy]

https://newatlas.com/branson-global-...itioner/57464/

Here is your chance, Create a more efficient air conditioner and with $3,000,000.
I read somewhere that even the best air conditioners are far from the theoretical maximum Carnot
efficiency.

Algae farms in the ocean for energy make sense. Solar collectors that manufacture themselves.

[DuracellBunny]

Algae farms in the ocean for energy make sense. Solar collectors that manufacture themselves.

Grow algae in tanks, set out like a vineyard, with a methane collector running along each row.

You could even genetically engineer a very fast growing tree that you could burn, and growing them would absorb the co2 produced by burning them.

You would be amazed at how much you could accomplish by getting people to eat less and walk more. In addition to a decrease in the resources consumed by healthcare and short distance transport, you would see a drop in the resources consumed by growing and transporting the food.

So many of the problems in the west would be lessened by eating less and moving more.

The long term solutions cannot be anything that consumes a finite resource, either in usage or construction, or which has a dual use (alternative weapons tech), as most of the future growth in population and energy usage will be in the developing world, so it has to be something that they can use, not just the west.

[andy0w]

You can wait until your country goes to the dogs.

But it will be more expensive then.

[wincel]

Friendly reminder that everything I said ITT is still as relevant as it was when I wrote it.

[sooby]

I'm all for alternative energy sources, however you can't just say fuk fossil fuels and ditch them and leave it at that. I know my company is looking more into this and trying to expand the natural gas aspect of things, which is much cleaner. But it's very expensive and the cost often don't justify going ahead with these projects, like they really don't.

[wincel]

I'm all for alternative energy sources, however you can't just say fuk fossil fuels and ditch them and leave it at that. I know my company is looking more into this and trying to expand the natural gas aspect of things, which is much cleaner. But it's very expensive and the cost often don't justify going ahead with these projects, like they really don't.

Well eventually we are going to run out so we really should be looking elsewhere.

[MirinCanadian99]

You're trying to peddle logic to the ideologues of the left. You gotta remember that this is the same ideology that thought the Great Leap Forward of Mao was for the greater good, this is the same ideology that thought Stalin's Four Year Plan was something to be amazed about and this is the same party that thinks Chavez's socialism was the best socialism back when Venezuela was doing well. For these people killing off 90% of the Human population in order to "Save the Planet" is a sacrifice worth making if it means a so-called greener Earth.

They've been peddling the same bullchit since the 70's and yet each time nothing has happened. All I've seen happen is that they will take tax payers money and give it to these green companies that end up going bust because they are not profitable because they are filled with cronies. Nobody is denying climate change is real, conservatives simply believe we can tackle it in a different way that doesn't include making the third world live in the dark ages because these nations can't afford the tens of hundreds of solar panels required to power their economies. Ironic how the left cares about the poor but their stupid climate change policies would sacrifice the entire third world in order to achieve a greener earth. I guess Leftists never change.

[wincel]

You're trying to peddle logic to the ideologues of the left. You gotta remember that this is the same ideology that thought the Great Leap Forward of Mao was for the greater good, this is the same ideology that thought Stalin's Four Year Plan was something to be amazed about and this is the same party that thinks Chavez's socialism was the best socialism back when Venezuela was doing well. For these people killing off 90% of the Human population in order to "Save the Planet" is a sacrifice worth making if it means a so-called greener Earth.

They've been peddling the same bullchit since the 70's and yet each time nothing has happened. All I've seen happen is that they will take tax payers money and give it to these green companies that end up going bust because they are not profitable because they are filled with cronies. Nobody is denying climate change is real, conservatives simply believe we can tackle it in a different way that doesn't include making the third world live in the dark ages because these nations can't afford the tens of hundreds of solar panels required to power their economies. Ironic how the left cares about the poor but their stupid climate change policies would sacrifice the entire third world in order to achieve a greener earth. I guess Leftists never change.

Actually, Donald Trump flat out denied climate change was real. Your party is full of idiots with low iq like you, and the only future for this country is if we purge ourselves of this filth before it continues to spread the rot. I have no faith in democracy anymore. You are sheep that must be led by a strong leader and indoctrinated. That is why you followed Trump. You have to be told what to think because you are incapable of abstract thought. You are undeserving of freedom and would use it to destroy yourselves.

We are seeing that freedom is the problem. Giving women and men freedom to sloot around, giving ppl freedom to make financial decisions or choose their course of study, letting them vote based on their beliefs of who is best qualified to lead and dictate policy...it has brought this nation to near ruin. The experiment has failed.

We used to be able to have freedom, but the internet has allowed the spread of disinformation on a level unparalleled in human history. It has confused the electorate to a point where it cannot function as intended anymore.

[Techriding101]

'Climate Change' was always about power and transfer of wealth.

There is a reason we don't hear about it anymore, because Covid has taken the spotlight.

[MirinCanadian99]

Actually, Donald Trump flat out denied climate change was real. Your party is full of idiots with low iq like you, and the only future for this country is if we purge ourselves of this filth before it continues to spread the rot. I have no faith in democracy anymore. You are sheep that must be led by a strong leader and indoctrinated. That is why you followed Trump. You have to be told what to think because you are incapable of abstract thought. You are undeserving of freedom and would use it to destroy yourselves.

We are seeing that freedom is the problem. Giving women and men freedom to sloot around, giving ppl freedom to make financial decisions or choose their course of study, letting them vote based on their beliefs of who is best qualified to lead and dictate policy...it has brought this nation to near ruin. The experiment has failed.

We used to be able to have freedom, but the internet has allowed the spread of disinformation on a level unparalleled in human history. It has confused the electorate to a point where it cannot function as intended anymore.

You sir are deluded beyond belief and truly think you're the only smart person out there. Freedom mitigates consequences. If people wanna sloot around you don't have to join in. Financial freedom allows people to do whatever the hell they want with their money. If that means the middle class goes bust then I'm sorry but they should have managed their money better. If a teenager goes to college and racks up 50k+ in debt and then can't pay it off because her craptivist job doesn't pay as well then I'm sorry I shouldn't have to pick up the tab. You're acting like there is this invisible boogeyman out there making people go out and spend 100-200$ a night on beer and eating out. Freedom exists because the last time we had no freedom millions of people were shot in the head by the NKVD. As for misinformation, you're gonna have that in every system. Why do communists still exist despite the evidence pointing to it not working? Why do fascists exist despite the evidence pointing to it resulting in a never ending war? It's all about misinformation and fooling your voting base into thinking they are in the right. Yes we can have open discussion but if they refuse to do its their choice.

As for Donald Trump refusing climate change. He didn't necessarily refuse to believe it, he thinks its overblown which it is. The only way you're gonna reduce consumption is by sterilizing entire continents and returning to 1800's farming practices. We would kill off entire continents and turn them into mega farms. Anything beyond this will not stop your overblown climate change. But I'm sure you'd be ok with that wincel. Seeing that you see fellow human beings as gullible sheep and nothing more. Climate change benefits Canada and Russia massively. So its kinda odd how you think its gonna spell doom for the whole world. The Earth has had hotter climates and yet life was still able to survive. Humans will adapt to this new hotter climate. Quit fuarkin acting like Climate Change=End of the World when it is clearly not.

[wincel]

You sir are deluded beyond belief and truly think you're the only smart person out there. Freedom mitigates consequences. If people wanna sloot around you don't have to join in. Financial freedom allows people to do whatever the hell they want with their money. If that means the middle class goes bust then I'm sorry but they should have managed their money better. If a teenager goes to college and racks up 50k+ in debt and then can't pay it off because her craptivist job doesn't pay as well then I'm sorry I shouldn't have to pick up the tab. You're acting like there is this invisible boogeyman out there making people go out and spend 100-200$ a night on beer and eating out. Freedom exists because the last time we had no freedom millions of people were shot in the head by the NKVD. As for misinformation, you're gonna have that in every system. Why do communists still exist despite the evidence pointing to it not working? Why do fascists exist despite the evidence pointing to it resulting in a never ending war? It's all about misinformation and fooling your voting base into thinking they are in the right. Yes we can have open discussion but if they refuse to do its their choice.

As for Donald Trump refusing climate change. He didn't necessarily refuse to believe it, he thinks its overblown which it is. The only way you're gonna reduce consumption is by sterilizing entire continents and returning to 1800's farming practices. We would kill off entire continents and turn them into mega farms. Anything beyond this will not stop your overblown climate change. But I'm sure you'd be ok with that wincel. Seeing that you see fellow human beings as gullible sheep and nothing more. Climate change benefits Canada and Russia massively. So its kinda odd how you think its gonna spell doom for the whole world. The Earth has had hotter climates and yet life was still able to survive. Humans will adapt to this new hotter climate. Quit fuarkin acting like Climate Change=End of the World when it is clearly not.

Go read what he said about it you dumb fuk.

[MirinCanadian99]

Go read what he said about it you dumb fuk.

Lol I did and nowhere does he ever say explicitly say Climate Change is fake and if you had a shred of IQ you'd know he was referring to the Climate Change Alarmists who think that if we don't destroy our economies in the process to reach zero emissions we're ****ed. Here are some quotes for you.

"I think there is some connectivity [between human activity and climate change]. There is some, something. It depends on how much. It also depends on how much it's going to cost our companies."

"I don't think there's a hoax. I do think there's probably a difference. But I don't know that it's man-made... I don't wanna give trillions and trillions of dollars."

"Climate change is very important to me. I've done many environmental impact statements in my life, and I believe very strongly in very, very crystal clear clean water and clean air."

"Nothing's a hoax about that. It's a very serious subject... I want the cleanest air, I want the cleanest water. The environment is very important to me. I also want jobs. I don't want to close up our industry because somebody said you have to go with wind."

"I don't believe it. ---> I don't believe what? Lack of context here (my own comment)

"I’m an environmentalist. I am. I want the cleanest water on the planet. I want the cleanest air anywhere."

"The United States will join the one trillion trees initiative"

I'll stop here, there is nothing wrong with being a climate skeptic. I will not let a bunch of entitled twats tell me that I need to pay a carbon tax on chit and that I need to have less kids in order to combat climate change. I'm not gonna pay half my paycheck in taxes so that the government can waste it on climate change initiatives. And I am not gonna let the third world suffer because we won't let them industrialize with cheaper energy sources. For someone who claims to be a man of logic and science you sure do come off as a cultist.

[JoshSP1985]

'Climate Change' was always about power and transfer of wealth.

There is a reason we don't hear about it anymore, because Covid has taken the spotlight.

It's a big part of it for sure. Imagine saying the earth was going to end in 10 years and then just ignoring that because some guy died in police custody.

[GreatOldOne]

Trump is sending us to Mars.

We can just mine the oil of the Martin dinosaurs.

[OttomanEmpire]

I do get depressed when I go grocery store and see peoples carts in bulk, just consumers.