Why do so many personal trainers teach people improperly?

[KyleAaron]

This sounds very different to the military I was in. It explains a lot in the news in the last decade.

In Australia PTs are either employed by the gym, in which case they get around half the session fee, or they're self-employed at the gym and paying rent, in which case they get 75-90% the session fee, but they also pay rent, more tax, insurance, etc. For the moderately successful PT it works out the same either way, the very successful PTs will be better off at a commercial joint.

[jfiske89]

In Australia PTs are either employed by the gym, in which case they get around half the session fee, or they're self-employed at the gym and paying rent, in which case they get 75-90% the session fee, but they also pay rent, more tax, insurance, etc. For the moderately successful PT it works out the same either way, the very successful PTs will be better off at a commercial joint.

Sounds like you guys have it pretty rough in the way of income for PT. I was thinking that there was no way I could do this full-time less I owned my own gym just based on the chunk we get.

[rockangel]

That's rather ignorant for you to say. Yes in the military we do what we are ordered to do. But we're not mindless machines just following orders all the time. We are all people who have different goals or desires and we work towards them when the duty day ends. For a lot of people in the military fitness and being able to physically perform better is important which is why they go to PTs that are contracted out of the gym which is something I've been doing part-time.

As for the payment of trainers I know at the gym on my base they only charge 15% of total cost. So $100 session will give the trainer $85. It's not a bad gig. How are things done in Australia?

Dude, you are talking about THE GYM ON BASE!!! Not a commercial gym. Its run by MWR who do not make their money through personal training, but rather by the other businesses they run. They also don't charge membership fees for military and dod id holders. They can afford to take only 15 or 20% off the top of the trainer. Yep, if you are a trainer at a base gym, your pay is very different. However, you still have to bust your arse to get clients.

At a commercial gym, its a very different story. I currently work at 2 facilities, one charges 100 bucks for 3 half hour sessions, trainer makes 25 for the HOUR, so that means you must train 2 sessions before you make 25. You make a little more when they book several hour sessions. But you still have to bust butt and SALE the packages to make decent money.

[jfiske89]

Dude, you are talking about THE GYM ON BASE!!! Not a commercial gym. Its run by MWR who do not make their money through personal training, but rather by the other businesses they run. They also don't charge membership fees for military and dod id holders. They can afford to take only 15 or 20% off the top of the trainer. Yep, if you are a trainer at a base gym, your pay is very different. However, you still have to bust your arse to get clients.

At a commercial gym, its a very different story. I currently work at 2 facilities, one charges 100 bucks for 3 half hour sessions, trainer makes 25 for the HOUR, so that means you must train 2 sessions before you make 25. You make a little more when they book several hour sessions. But you still have to bust butt and SALE the packages to make decent money.

Sorry. I didn't know. I have never talked with anyone who has worked for a commercial gym before. And I know the Air Force charges ALL members no matter their job or duty status for a PT.

[Endevorforever]

Enough! This thread is making personal trainers look bad. The OP isn't a trainer and he is just is speculating. Since he was not specific, we can only guess as to why he think trainers are teaching people improperly.

[arian11]

Nah.. Maybe just maybe on my last repition before failure.. thats a big maybe..My money is on you giving me a high five .. And being motivated to do better.. I squat low (ATG) and for reps..
Ill even stop a set if my form goes off.. For I am no longer hitting my legs but more likely using my back. I leave my ego at the door.

Post a video brah so I can give you an internet high five!

[ChessGuy]

Why are there so many bad mechanics out there, even the ones with years of experience?

[pottersbar]

I feel you, breh. My gym only has like 3 solid personal trainers who know that the hell they're doing. There is one personal trainer though who is fairly okay in the upper body, but literally no legs; I can only pray for the people hes training.

What do the trainers legs have to do with his knowledge and ability to teach?


I'm a PT and near 20% body fat, people like you are doubtless mocking me when they see me walking around the gym with clients.
but people like you don't know of the 40kg's i lost before becoming a trainer, or the 20% bf i lost to change my life. you don't know how many hours a day i spend trawling the internet reading, listening and learning about everything health and fitness, always trying to find the best techniques to give my clients the best results. you don't know that i have multiple qualifications as a coach in several different sports, or have sports science and sports management degress from university. but what you apparently do know, is that my clients must have a terrible trainer because i don't happen to be ripped like a greek god.


do me a favour.....

and people on here have the cheek to talk about ignorance.
what a fantastically judgemental society we live in.

[pottersbar]

I could care less bout what PT do and if somebody wants to waste there money it's up to them. Don't worry bout it op just do your own thing

you had to make a comment to comment that you don't care about the subject being discussed? odd!

[PeteratCastle]

There are loads of bad PTs out there..some truly astonishingly awful ones. But, like someone already said, it's called Personal Training for a reason. Some of the exercises I do with one of my clients with a frozen shoulder look stupid and like a waste of time to most people in the gym. They are vital exercises for the people I'm training though. I don't mind people online bitching about how many PTs are truly terrible..I just think they could do themselves a favour and assume that the PT knows what he's doing and then go up to him and just ask "Hey, hope you don't mind but why did you do that exercise?".

I have had people come up to me a lot asking me loads of questions after seeing me do a work-out with a client with medical issues and am always willing to answer questions regarding exercise. It is one of the ways I tend to get quite a few new clients. Even guys that are clearly in great shape will immediately think 2Oh, so this guy does know what he's doing..well, my rotator cuff has been niggling a bit for the past 3 months...maybe I should work with him for a few sessions)

As long as I keep walking into gyms and see people doing lat-pulldowns incorrectly even though they walk around like they own the gym I'll just be safe in the knowledge that I know more about effective exercise than most, 99%, people in the gym.

Most PTs aren't bad because they don't know anything..most PTs whom are bad are bad because they are lazy, unprepared and can't be bothered putting a decent program together for their clients. (If I see 1 more bicep curl listed on a program for someone who wants a short duration workout and lose weight I will have a fit).

And the Jill Michaels KB thing was just terribad..it was just awful as are most KB instructors in the UK, TBH.

[Johnnyfalcon731]

Enough! This thread is making personal trainers look bad. The OP isn't a trainer and he is just is speculating. Since he was not specific, we can only guess as to why he think trainers are teaching people improperly.

^^i was quite specific in earlier posts.. I don't believe all trainers teach improper form.. But there are many that do.. Because I didn't take a four hour class on everything but proper exercise doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.. Being a pt although can be specific to a persons training needs .. Should the majority of the time be for that trainer to teach their clients safe and relevant exercises so that they can meet their goals.. Not how to ego lift or get a ticket to snap city.. Plain and simple .. While studying for their pt certifications it wouldn't hurt to actually have a broad database of exercises done with proper form or to at least be working out themselves so they can have experience with the type of lifts they'll be teaching..

[Johnnyfalcon731]

Post a video brah so I can give you an internet high five!

^^ I do squats with the thought of you watching me critiquing my technique .. As soon as I figure out how to embed videos from my phone.. I will let you know brah! In the meantime thanks for the motivation

[Endevorforever]

^^i was quite specific in earlier posts.. I don't believe all trainers teach improper form.. But there are many that do.. Because I didn't take a four hour class on everything but proper exercise doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.. Being a pt although can be specific to a persons training needs .. Should the majority of the time be for that trainer to teach their clients safe and relevant exercises so that they can meet their goals.. Not how to ego lift or get a ticket to snap city.. Plain and simple .. While studying for their pt certifications it wouldn't hurt to actually have a broad database of exercises done with proper form or to at least be working out themselves so they can have experience with the type of lifts they'll be teaching..

My friend you are only making wild generalizations. Personal trainers do teach people specific exercises to help them reach their fitness goals. You are making wild assumptions that there are many personal trainers who don't teach people effective exercise. Many trainers take four years or more of classes not just four hours. Some have been fit and physically active for the majority of their lives. You don't know what you are talking about because you cite no specific data. You are obviously just trying to discredit personal training as an industry. Furthermore, you don't need a broad database of exercises, just a working knowledge of exercises that would benefit clients.

Here I will show you how silly this post is. Before going independent I worked at a commercial gym. I never ever saw one out of the 14 trainers we had teach anyone improperly. There was no "ego lift" or other junk you are rambling about. From my experience the "many trainers that teach people improperly", is all in your head.

[shreddomorph]

The gym i go to cost between 20 and 40 a month depending on if you make them give you a deal. then its $50 for a trainer session and you are required to sign up for a minimum of 8 sessions. and yet their trainers are still morons. half the crap they teach is terrible form and the other half is just wrong. like teaching to bench relying about 70% on the spotter. o no don't do less weight just make your spotter do more. they actually tell their clients to jump off the ground while doing power clean. im talking like 4" off the ground every time. i have had good and bad trainers the good ones are pretty dang rare.

[StantonPT]

I once saw a PT checking out another girls backside whilst their client was struggling on the bench press, he only just looked back when they spoke up and were about to drop it on their neck..... idiot.

[rdferguson]

I once saw a PT checking out another girls backside whilst their client was struggling on the bench press, he only just looked back when they spoke up and were about to drop it on their neck..... idiot.

Crap, I thought no one saw me.

[superman2990]

I think, atleast here in NY the personal training industry is becoming more a money hungry industry, and less a wanting to improve health industry. I workout at equinox and I can honestly say I literally feel like crap inside when I see how bad the trainers are. These are not beginner trainers, I am talking about two tier 3+ trainers that I see daily having their clients do partials, literally less than an inch of movement, and tell them how great they are doing. I asked them why they train in such a way, and this is exactly what one of them said "This is the way I workout." I literally starred at the guy for a good minute and walked away.

[rdferguson]

^ I think you use the word "literally" quite liberally. But "this is the way I workout" as a justification for why they coach others to train that way is worthy of a bertstare.

[dncnshinobi]

I just came on the scene as a trainer earlier this spring. Took the NASM test. Passed the test six months after receiving my study material, but by no means easy, nor did I ever once consider myself as a "know it all/done it all" trainer. My friends wanted me to train them immediately, and my response was, "Dude, I haven't even gotten to taught the hands on stuff yet!" There was no way I was about to put up a front. For me, it's all about (as they say) quality over quantity of weights. Show me a guy that wants to begin his bench press with a 45 on each side with bad form, activating incorrect muscles...and I'll show him how to correct his form, good tempo, and with less weight. There's definitely trainers out there, whether they're new or been in the game for awhile who think they got it all figured out. I strive to learn as much as I can from my co-workers and others who have experience in the fitness industry. There's no way one can teach someone to perform an exercise when they've never even done it themselves! I still have goals of my own. Having experienced a freak injury unrelated to fitness, I already understood it's extremely important to have good form no matter what you do. Anyways, enough of my spiel. My point is that not every trainer coming into the saturated market is completely clueless, or is embarrassingly ignorant. There is some hope my friends! And I hope to make a lot of the legit folks out there proud!

[Ronin4help]

I'm not sure it is always that the bad trainers teach bad technique as much as they don't make it a point to correct improper technique when their clients display it.

[BarBarella85]

I've seen this so many times and I've only been working in a gym a couple of years. I mostly take people for writing up and teaching exercise programs (with occasional PT sessions) and am a stickler for technique. When I was questioned about it, I rephrased it on her... "why DON'T you teach correct technique?" Her response shocked me, but was understandable as she's more about the money than the clients:
"Client's don't want training sessions on technique, they want sessions that are going to make them sweat. If I spent x amount of time on technique training, then I am going to lose my clients".
I have seen her do some stupid **** and I'm surprised no one has ended up hurt - yet. And this is someone who has been training clients for over a decade! Latest one I saw, the equipment was so heavy that she had to assist on every single rep at the very start of the session!! I wouldn't question it as much if it wasn't for the fact that the client was a 60+ year old untrained lady.

[KyleAaron]

I'm not sure it is always that the bad trainers teach bad technique as much as they don't make it a point to correct improper technique when their clients display it.

It comes to the same thing. Nobody is born knowing how to do a barbell squat or kettlebell swing, they have to be taught correct movement from the ground up. Lying by omission is lying, and failing to correct bad technique is the same as teaching bad technique.

I've seen this so many times and I've only been working in a gym a couple of years. I mostly take people for writing up and teaching exercise programs (with occasional PT sessions) and am a stickler for technique. When I was questioned about it, I rephrased it on her... "why DON'T you teach correct technique?" Her response shocked me, but was understandable as she's more about the money than the clients:
"Client's don't want training sessions on technique, they want sessions that are going to make them sweat. If I spent x amount of time on technique training, then I am going to lose my clients".

It's true that many don't care about technique, only sweating. However, many of them can be won over by, "If you do use correct technique, we can lift more weight and do more reps, and this will lead to more sweat." This doesn't persuade them all, but that's okay, I don't take on clients like that any more, there are plenty of other trainers who'll work with them.

Most likely your colleague doesn't actually know how to coach people. I see this a lot. Even trainers who can do heavy deep barbell squats aren't coaching people to a correct unloaded goblet squat. They just don't know how.

[Footballa_19]

Just my two cents, correct technique can vary from person to person. Range of motion comes into play, as well as client's overall health and abilities. I have a couple clients that will never reach a parallel squat, so most people would say "Why doesn't the trainer teach them how to squat right!?" But most people will never know a client's specific goals and health history, whether it's injuries or joint instability and weakness. The key is a progressive squat for that individual person, even if the progress is so small that only someone who has been training with them like myself will notice.

[KyleAaron]

Just my two cents, correct technique can vary from person to person. Range of motion comes into play, as well as client's overall health and abilities. I have a couple clients that will never reach a parallel squat, so most people would say "Why doesn't the trainer teach them how to squat right!?"

I would say that, too. I've only had one person I couldn't get to do a below parallel squat within 3 weeks. He was in his 30s, but had osteoarthritis in his hips, we did improve his range of motion from 40 to about 10 degrees above parallel, could we have got it further? I don't know, this was only 6 weeks.

Even elderly deconditioned people, if they hold onto a doorknob or something, have the mobility to get into a below parallel squat - they just don't have the strength to get back up again. The issue is thus rarely mobility, and much more commonly strength. This is what we have leg presses for, so they can move through the full range of motion with a lower weight than their bodyweight - and get stronger. Three weeks, tops, for those doing PT.

But around 9 in 10 people of the general gym population I can get to doing a below-parallel goblet squat with a 5-10kg dumbbell within about 10 minutes. Even the physical idiots. The 1 in 10 are grossly obese, people in their 60s or older who've not been active since high school, people coming back from knee reconstructions in the last two weeks, that sort of thing. They're the ones who take up to 3 weeks. That's with personal training, if they're general gym members working out on their own it might be 3 months.

Perhaps you're training people with more severe issues than osteoarthritis or knee reconstructions. More likely you just don't know how to coach the squat, I see this a lot. I recommend Dan John and Mark Rippetoe's works as useful resources. Coaching movement is a skill we're not born with, we have to learn from someone. I sure as sht didn't know in the beginning, I had to learn.

[Footballa_19]

I would say that, too. I've only had one person I couldn't get to do a below parallel squat within 3 weeks. He was in his 30s, but had osteoarthritis in his hips, we did improve his range of motion from 40 to about 10 degrees above parallel, could we have got it further? I don't know, this was only 6 weeks.

Even elderly deconditioned people, if they hold onto a doorknob or something, have the mobility to get into a below parallel squat - they just don't have the strength to get back up again. The issue is thus rarely mobility, and much more commonly strength. This is what we have leg presses for, so they can move through the full range of motion with a lower weight than their bodyweight - and get stronger. Three weeks, tops, for those doing PT.

But around 9 in 10 people of the general gym population I can get to doing a below-parallel goblet squat with a 5-10kg dumbbell within about 10 minutes. Even the physical idiots. The 1 in 10 are grossly obese, people in their 60s or older who've not been active since high school, people coming back from knee reconstructions in the last two weeks, that sort of thing. They're the ones who take up to 3 weeks. That's with personal training, if they're general gym members working out on their own it might be 3 months.

Perhaps you're training people with more severe issues than osteoarthritis or knee reconstructions. More likely you just don't know how to coach the squat, I see this a lot. I recommend Dan John and Mark Rippetoe's works as useful resources. Coaching movement is a skill we're not born with, we have to learn from someone. I sure as sht didn't know in the beginning, I had to learn.

I completely agree with you kyle, and while I am quite familiar with correcting squat technique, I am sure you know it can be a frustrating cycle with some people. Trying to get someone to do a below parallel squat within ten mins of training sounds a little more ambitious than what I would do (although don't think I am downplaying the importance of developing squats), I believe it probably is a possibility for a lot of people. My real point is that in that 10 mins or say the 3 weeks you mentioned in which a person is progressing through due to their lack of ability, that's is usually when people tend to judge PT's and say we don't know what the heck we're talking about.

If they had just been there for the original assessment or knew that the client had physical restrictions or abilities, they would be a little more accepting of a well-designed progressive program that is based on "the client's" needs, and not just what works for the general population.

[Kirbynet]

Absolutely. Perhaps, those Personal Trainers should also undergo a training before doing their teaching lessons.

[Walls8431]

It makes me sick to my stomach. Time and time again there's some scrub who just became "certified" teaching people improper training methods. Just because you passed your course doesn't mean you know what your doing as much as me passing a physics exam doesn't mean I can teach a course in physics. Read learn and inform. There's such things as full range or motion.. Muscle contractions and proper order of exercises ex. Doing cardio AFTER lifting weights . It's a disease that has a cure. If your serious about teaching than why not so it properly. The results may surprise you.

Very true. Sometimes, to pass does not really mean, one is qualified. Sometimes, a thorough training is a must!

[KyleAaron]

My real point is that in that 10 mins or say the 3 weeks you mentioned in which a person is progressing through due to their lack of ability, that's is usually when people tend to judge PT's and say we don't know what the heck we're talking about.

That's probably true for the clueless curlbros and cardio bunnies of the world, which includes most of the population of this website. However, the regulars in the gym do look and notice things. They see patterns. This trainer is the bosu trainer, that trainer is the barbell trainer, go to Anna for marathons, go to Bob for squats, and so on. And they see that all of your clients do things well, all do badly, or some do it well and some badly. They understand that some clients are new, and some have been there for ages. They've seen you go through coaching newbies, seen the changes.

When someone's really good at something, you don't have be an expert in that thing to be able to tell. Competence stands out.

[Footballa_19]

That's probably true for the clueless curlbros and cardio bunnies of the world, which includes most of the population of this website. However, the regulars in the gym do look and notice things. They see patterns. This trainer is the bosu trainer, that trainer is the barbell trainer, go to Anna for marathons, go to Bob for squats, and so on. And they see that all of your clients do things well, all do badly, or some do it well and some badly. They understand that some clients are new, and some have been there for ages. They've seen you go through coaching newbies, seen the changes.

When someone's really good at something, you don't have be an expert in that thing to be able to tell. Competence stands out.

Well what if I told you I was awesome at just about everything?? haha no I see your point, I try to avoid that by putting the time into my program design. There are too many different exercises, modalities of those exercises, and styles of training (sports, boxing-type cardios, HIIT, resistance, kettlebell, circuit training) out there and IMO a trainer should never be allowed to be labeled by certain exercises. If you are labeled, I would say you're just not putting the time in. Of course that doesn't include a lot of "groundwork" exercises like squats, lunges, push/pulls. You should be building around those, but you can accomplish hip flexion/extension for example in a variety of ways without always doing squats.

[SSahara]

I am gonna post really humbly here because while I am in a Sports College ( aiming for fitness intructor to be my desired course ) i am only a first year and the vast majority of all of you people know so much more than I do.

to me the issue boils down to a lack of expertice.

To me I guess it just has to do with the nature of our job. At least in my country, you can become a fitness intructor or personal trainer without any certifiation or going to college for it and actually earning a degree that because some of the things you would need to know to become a personal trainer you can simply learn ''on foot'' reading, educating yourself on all of the subjects,and it leaves a lot of room for somebody to improve and to learn.

However, it is because there is so much room that a lot of...anybodys basically decide they wish to become personal trainers because they see that you dont nececarilly have to have a formal education which is.... the green light for all of those people who were never really good at school, didnt really have a bright future ahead of them,were too lazy to enroll in some college and attempt to make something out of themselfes in their life so they just decided ok well,...why dont I be a personal trainer, you dont really need to go to shcool for it ( or thats how they assume ) so its gotta be easy,right? and hence the incompetent or not nearly qualified enough personal trainers who show sloopy versions of even the most simple,basic excersizes.

For instance, 80 percent of female instructors in my country ( not speaking about males because the majority of men who decide to be personal trainers really do a good job and take it much more seriously than women ) are females that....were never really good at school, but they always looked good or were the ''IT'' girl in school so they decided to be an intructor because they wanted to preserve their appearance and looking good is all they care for and they dont even take a slight interest into any female that walks in their gym because they are vain and dont want any other girl to outshine them.
Sounds sad and immature but it is how it is.

I think there are so many incompetent people in our....line of work because ppl dont respect it and dont take it seriously enough.

Also, people are to blame a little as well because at times it strikes me that they dont quite care for quality anymore.

Most of you from the US may know who Jillian Michaels is, the personal trainer who was on Biggest Looser. It was discovered that she uses steroids and all types of drugs and that she is anything but an expert in her field, and one readers comment was something along the lines of '' well so what if she uses drugs and steriods i would let her train me any day''.

I was like...WTF. And I wrote to that person and I said you know, I cant believe how careless you are towards your own health to let yourself be trained by somebody like that,i mean why dont you just take a homeless person from the street and let them train you.

So it is an issue but the fact people condone it at times and have this whoppy doo, I dont mind type of attitude is also making it worse.