Intermittent Fasting for Strength Training and Fat Loss

[determined4000]

Have read the thread and have the basis of this approach down, and I like it alot, I think this will fit my lifestyle perfectly.

He is more normal day..
5am..Wakeup/LISS
7am-4pm...work
4pm-5pm...Train
5pm-10pm..Family Time
10pm-5am...Sleep

I understand the fast for 16 eat for 8. Could I from looking at above schedule fast from 8pm-12pm. Then begin eating first meal at around noon ,have a preworkout shake 3:30pm then train from 4pm-5pm. Then eat the rest of my calories between 5pm and 8pm?

I read alot on fasted training..but me training at 4pm is the only time I'm really able to train. I do usually do around 30 minutes LISS fasted at 5am.

I have not tried this approach yet, and am trying to fully understand it before I begin. Reps for answers.

my schdeule is just about identical to yours
I prefer fasted workouts, so right now my window is small, but it would certainly work as you described.

[rickymartinn]

does anyone else just fast before workouts and eat normally on other days? will this completely throw off the effects of the diet? if it just has to do with the hunger hormone I have no problem fasting 4 days a week and eating normally when i wake up 3 days a week.

Monday: wake up at 6am, eat
Tuesday: fast until workout (1-9pm eating window)
Wednesday: wake up at 6am, eat
Thursday: fast until workout (1-9pm eating window)
Friday: wake up at 6am, eat
Saturday: fast until workout (1-9pm eating window)

[determined4000]

does anyone else just fast before workouts and eat normally on other days? will this completely throw off the effects of the diet? if it just has to do with the hunger hormone I have no problem fasting 4 days a week and eating normally when i wake up 3 days a week.

Monday: wake up at 6am, eat
Tuesday: fast until workout (1-9pm eating window)
Wednesday: wake up at 6am, eat
Thursday: fast until workout (1-9pm eating window)
Friday: wake up at 6am, eat
Saturday: fast until workout (1-9pm eating window)

whatever you prefer
Generally Sundays I am with family and we eat early afternoon so my fast is <16hours. No biggie. I am not going to try and finish my eating saturday early because of it.
Most people don't because of their body gets programmed to start eating at X time, so they aren't hungry, and they don't want to start getting hungry too early on workout days (because they are using a different eating pattern on off days). If you can do it, and want to do it, go ahead.

[EmperorRyker]

Hmm, being on IF and loving it notwithstanding, who else here thinks the whole thing is starting to spawn a whole lot of broscience, as well?

I'm not trolling, either.

[rpdm]

> who else here thinks the whole thing is starting to spawn a whole lot of broscience
I think there are a lot of unproven/dodgy claims about IF that encourage wishful thinking. The lack of research means we have to rely on somewhat uncontrolled experimentation, which is not far removed from broscience and could easily cross the line.

[blastdoors]

Actually http://www.leangains.com/search/label/Supplements

Ive been thinking about trying the Yohimbine HCL myself for energy switching it out for my current pre wo supplement.

Not too many people get energy from Yohimbine. It's usually a weird, sometimes nauseous feeling, but by all means give it a go and see how you react. I myself don't feel much off it, but I'm in the minority.

[FemmeFatale28]

Not too many people get energy from Yohimbine. It's usually a weird, sometimes nauseous feeling, but by all means give it a go and see how you react. I myself don't feel much off it, but I'm in the minority.

Guess we will see what happens. Figure I can try it and see and if I dont like it I am out what? $9 bucks. No biggie.

[tjwoody]

> who else here thinks the whole thing is starting to spawn a whole lot of broscience
I think there are a lot of unproven/dodgy claims about IF that encourage wishful thinking. The lack of research means we have to rely on somewhat uncontrolled experimentation, which is not far removed from broscience and could easily cross the line.

main reason I am doing it is cause on a cut I get to eat bigger meals when i can eat during the feast part. still seeing if it helps with weight loss...least at my heavier BF%. Dont know if I will do it when I recomp with more cals.

[ob205]

Guess we will see what happens. Figure I can try it and see and if I dont like it I am out what? $9 bucks. No biggie.

I feel that yohimbe is a good additive in a fat burner, it was in the Flashpoint I took and I definitely think it contributed to reducing my problem areas. I have taken yohimbe by itself in the past, but think it is more effective when used synergistically.

Best luck and let us you how it is.

[Trillios]

> who else here thinks the whole thing is starting to spawn a whole lot of broscience
I think there are a lot of unproven/dodgy claims about IF that encourage wishful thinking. The lack of research means we have to rely on somewhat uncontrolled experimentation, which is not far removed from broscience and could easily cross the line.

I thought the same thing from the start which is why I look at IF as a style of dieting. I get up and eat my macros and when I'm done eating my macros...that's it. If that means I'm done with them the first two hours or 8 hours later then so be it. I start the next day from scratch not counting on the fast but if it happens to be 12-16 hours...then so be it. It all depends on the different schedules I have. I think this is a healthier way of looking at it rather than trying to time everything perfectly. Hit your macros according to your daily schedule and when you're done, you're done.

[The Solution]

Guess we will see what happens. Figure I can try it and see and if I dont like it I am out what? $9 bucks. No biggie.

Good read here:

The Sporto Zone: Yohimbine HCl
By: Tommy Jeffers, Team Scivation
Ok, here's the deal: I typically don't write much simply because very few things ever motivate me enough to write in the first place. But over the course of the last few years that I have been in this industry, both competing and coaching, I have come across some things that I feel I need to share and get out in the open to all who are new to the scene and eager to learn. So this is the first of many short "articles" (if you want to call them that) that I will be writing for those of you who follow myself, Scivation/Primaforce, or even just the sport of bodybuilding. This first article is dedicated to a compound that was introduced to me over six years ago by Lyle Mcdonald called Yohimbine HCl. So, first let me briefly explain how found out about this incredible fat loss supplement to begin with.

It was 2003, and I was ready to start prepping for my first bodybuilding show in the spring of 2004. I came across Lyle McDonald's website, learned a ton on his forums, and ended up buying his book called "The Ultimate Diet 2.0". It was in that book that I eventually learned about Yohimbine HCL and the benefits it has as a supreme fat loss agent when used efficiently. Of course, I was all about making my prep as efficient as possible, so when I looked up pricing on Yohimbine HCL, I found that it was actually relatively cheap from a company called Primaforce! Hey, what more could a broke college student ask for, right? Furthermore, a few years later when I was prepping for my natural pro card in 2007, he had me run a cardio protocol involving Yohimbine HCl for his upcoming book "The Stubborn Fat Loss Solution" and eventually ended up slapping my ugly mug on the cover. It was in that book that Lyle had mentioned the maximum effective dosing for Yohimbine HCl and in what situations to dose it for maximum efficacy, and everything else you ever wanted to know about Yohimbine HCl (and fat loss for that matter). Now, that is not intended to be a shameless plug for Lyle's book as much as it is to let everyone know the main source of my information. Lyle is one of the smartest people I know in the field, and I attribute a lot of what I now know to people like him that I have been fortunate enough to work with and learn from to build the best physique I possibly could naturally.


Now that that is out of the way, some of you are probably wondering what exactly Yohimbine HCl really is. Basically, it breaks down like this:



Yohimbe is a tree (an evergreen to be exact) that grows in regions in Africa. Yohimbe bark is taken from the trees and is used and sold in various supplements and medicines. Yohimbine is a component of yohimbe and is the main alkaloid (and main active component) within yohimbe that produces the desired effects (like fat loss) from the yohimbe bark.



Did you get all that? As you can see, the Yohimbine is really what we want, not yohimbe bark (what you sometimes see sold in standardized extract forms making it hard to know what dose you are actually getting of the active component). This is why we want Yohimbine HCl (like what Primaforce sells really inexpensive). That way, we know what dose we are getting and can control the amount carefully, thus minimizing any side effects that one might experience while using this great supplement.



Okay, now that you know what it is, I bet you now want to know what it does, right? Ok, first you have to know about alpha receptors (I promise to keep this simple). All you need to know about alpha receptors in your body is that they inhibit fat breakdown. So wherever they are abundant, you have a harder time losing fat in that area. Think about a typical woman's hip/thigh area and a typical man's lower back/glute area. The reason they are so stubborn with body fat and usually end up being the last place to get lean is because they have an abundance of alpha receptors there. That is no coincidence (in fact, Lyle talks about why this is from an evolution standpoint in his book). Anyway, the neat thing about Yohimbine HCl is that it acts as an alpha receptor blocker. So, since alpha receptors inhibit fat breakdown, and Yohimbine HCl inhibits alpha receptors, the net result is that you get an INCREASE in fat breakdown. It works in the same way a double negative works (by inhibiting the inhibitor). So not only do you get a nice increase in fat breakdown, which is the first step in losing body fat, you get it from an area that normally is the hardest place to lose it from. This is exactly why I have all of my clients that compete for shows using this supplement during their contest prep. It is very cheap and highly effective!



Well, that's great to hear, but now how do I dose it? Well, of course we could always use more research, but we will have to use what is available right now as our guide. Studies have shown that does anywhere from 8-24mg of active Yohimbine produced fat loss effects. I always heir on the side of caution when dosing any kind of compound that has stimulant effects on the body, especially this one since raised blood pressure and heart rate are the side effects that accompany the higher doses. Everyone is different and will react different to stimulants, so that's why I say it is always best to start small, assess any side effects, and then increase your dose in small amounts until you reach the desired or full dosing. The guide I learned from Lyle a long time ago was dosing at 0.2mg/Kg of bodyweight. So that means a 220lb bodybuilder (divide by 2.2 to get Kg) is 100Kg and would work up to a dose of 20mg of Yohimbine HCl, or eight capsules of Primaforce Yohimbine HCl. I would typically start this person at a dose of around half the full dose (in this case 10mg) and work my way up towards the full dose each consecutive session the person had no undesirable side effects.



Now that you are finally aware of Yohimbine HCl and the proper dosing, keep in mind that Yohimbine HCl's effects work the best in the absence of insulin, and its effects start to diminish the more insulin is present. But also be aware that a little insulin secretion does not just flip a switch and shut off all fat burning effects either. The body is not that black and white. For instance, Yohimbine HCl will work best in a fasted state, but will also work just fine if you took in, say, a scoop of whey early morning before your cardio and sipped BCAAs during. Most people think of insulin as a on/off switch and it just doesn't work that way. So keep that in mind when you are using various dieting approaches so that you don't think that Yohimbine HCl is only for those who do fasted cardio and/or a ketogenic diets. Furthermore, the whole point behind taking Yohimbine HCl is to breakdown the fat from those stubborn areas so that we can mobilize it and then eventually oxidize it and use it for fuel. That is why the ultimate time to take Yohimbine HCl (and the only time I recommend to bother taking it) is before low-moderate intensity cardio. Most people who are doing both weights and cardio like to combine them into one workout for obvious time reasons. In this case, what I like to do is have my clients take their dose of Yohimbine HCl about 15-20 minutes before they are finished with their weight workout. That way, the Yohimbine HCl is given enough time to start working in the body and be ready to start breaking down that fat by the time you hop on the treadmill (or bike, elliptical, etc.) to do your post workout cardio. Obviously if you have a cardio only training day, or have the luxury to split up your weight and cardio sessions, then the ultimate time you will get the most bang for your buck is with early morning cardio - either fasted or a scoop of whey beforehand...just don't forget to sip your Xtend during!



I hope you found this short article helpful and further understanding this magnificent compound for ultimate fat loss. Keep in mind that I tried to keep it simple and to the point without a lot of confusing jargon and vocabulary (for those of us who didn't specialize in the field). There are many different scenarios that you can play around with, but they are easy to figure out when you simply know the basics - like proper dosing amounts, effective timing, etc. If anyone has any specific questions, please feel free to hit me up, or even pick up that nice book that Lyle threw my face on...it is loaded with all the scientific knowledge you could ever want about stubborn fat and even Yohimbine HCl in particular for those who want a much more in depth and detailed explanation of the science behind it all. But for those of you who just want something short and sweet, direct and to the point with the basics of what you need to know to get started melting that fat off, I hope you found this helpful! Stay tuned for some other "hidden gems" I will be writing about in the near future!

[FemmeFatale28]

Good read here:

The Sporto Zone: Yohimbine HCl
By: Tommy Jeffers, Team Scivation

Sweet. Thank you for that

[spicyprice]

Thanks for the great article Solution!

[apace]

my blood pressure is very low 108/61 heart rate 51 and fasting for 16 hours seems to make it worst as i start feeling dizzy
while fasting is it ok if i drink 2 servings of bovril , or will this effect the fasting period

Beef Bovril:
Ingredients: Beef Stock (43%), Yeast Extract (24%), Salt, Colour (E150c), Waxy Maize Starch, Dehydrated Beef (1.3%), Flavour Enhancer
(Disodium 5’-ribonucleotides), Lactic Acid, Niacin, Thiamin, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Spice Extracts (contains celery), Vitamin B12.

Nutrition Information :
per 12g serving
22kcal
Protein 4.7g
Carbohydrate 0.6g
- of which Sugars 0.2g
Fat 0.1g
- of which Saturates Trace
Fibre nil
Sodium 0.54g
Salt (based on sodium) 1.38g

[tjwoody]

been craving ice coffees from dunkins lately. last time during my feast i got one with some splenda and skim but id really like one in mornings.

so cant bring in any cals right during fast? I think I read martin say like some cals wouldnt make or break the fast but the lg ice with skim has 60 cals. the black says it has 20 cals in it.

what u guys think? prob be going to try a black with splenda soon

lg with skim and splenda:
https://www.dunkindonuts.com/aboutus...ges&id=DD-672F

[tjwoody]

Sweet. Thank you for that

nice update pics...looking GREAT!

[FemmeFatale28]

been craving ice coffees from dunkins lately. last time during my feast i got one with some splenda and skim but id really like one in mornings.

so cant bring in any cals right during fast? I think I read martin say like some cals wouldnt make or break the fast but the lg ice with skim has 60 cals. the black says it has 20 cals in it.

what u guys think? prob be going to try a black with splenda soon

lg with skim and splenda:
https://www.dunkindonuts.com/aboutus...ges&id=DD-672F

Idk the answer to your question.. I am a black with Splenda girl right now and since Ive found flavored splenda its not that bad at all If a large has 60cal why not just get a small? Lg is just more milk, not more caffeine. If I go to starbucks and get anything bigger than a small I always have them throw in extra shots of espresso because to hell with all that milk

nice update pics...looking GREAT!

Thank you so much. Im leaning out quickly. This week I started bringing calories back up. Sloowwlly going into maintainence and pretty damn excited about it

[FemmeFatale28]

my blood pressure is very low 108/61 heart rate 51 and fasting for 16 hours seems to make it worst as i start feeling dizzy
while fasting is it ok if i drink 2 servings of bovril , or will this effect the fasting period

Beef Bovril:
Ingredients: Beef Stock (43%), Yeast Extract (24%), Salt, Colour (E150c), Waxy Maize Starch, Dehydrated Beef (1.3%), Flavour Enhancer
(Disodium 5’-ribonucleotides), Lactic Acid, Niacin, Thiamin, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Spice Extracts (contains celery), Vitamin B12.

Nutrition Information :
per 12g serving
22kcal
Protein 4.7g
Carbohydrate 0.6g
- of which Sugars 0.2g
Fat 0.1g
- of which Saturates Trace
Fibre nil
Sodium 0.54g
Salt (based on sodium) 1.38g

I have really low blood pressure too. Mine is the same as yours and thats in a fed state I get the dizzy's when Im approaching the 16 hour mark, but BCAA's keep me grounded during my work outs

[TheRagingboxer]

Haha, yeah I noticed the cold chills around hour 15, was kinda wierd considering its 80 degrees outside, of course the chills hit me when I was in the office. I go with a small coffe in the morning, one packet of splenda half tablespoon of milk. Good to go.

[Trillios]

I noticed I had to increase my sodium intake to match my water intake especially after waking up from a fast (slightly dizzy and headache). Yesterday for example I downed half a gallon with one hour without trying and my breakfast barely had any sodium. Big headache! Went to kitchen and poured less than 500mg sodium to water and drank it, and no less than 15mins later felt back to normal.

[FemmeFatale28]

I noticed I had to increase my sodium intake to match my water intake especially after waking up from a fast (slightly dizzy and headache). Yesterday for example I downed half a gallon with one hour without trying and my breakfast barely had any sodium. Big headache! Went to kitchen and poured less than 500mg sodium to water and drank it, and no less than 15mins later felt back to normal.

Well Ive noticed I stay thirsty as well, but I also feel like a sweat more when Im working out fasted. Maybe thats why? Maybe incorporate powerade zero's into your day? Strawberry is tasty

[Fitzwell]

I noticed I had to increase my sodium intake to match my water intake especially after waking up from a fast (slightly dizzy and headache). Yesterday for example I downed half a gallon with one hour without trying and my breakfast barely had any sodium. Big headache! Went to kitchen and poured less than 500mg sodium to water and drank it, and no less than 15mins later felt back to normal.

It is extremely important to make sure your water/sodium/potassium in take are all in line. Have too little can be as bad/worse than having too much.

[L.1.3]

Well Ive noticed I stay thirsty as well, but I also feel like a sweat more when Im working out fasted. Maybe thats why? Maybe incorporate powerade zero's into your day? Strawberry is tasty

Powerade Zero's is my new friend it tastes great and besides water its the only thing I can drink while working out and not make me feel weird or anything.

[FemmeFatale28]

Powerade Zero's is my new friend it tastes great and besides water its the only thing I can drink while working out and not make me feel weird or anything.

haha.. I mix the strawberry with vodka when I drink.. lol Its important to stay hydrated right?

[Trillios]

Well Ive noticed I stay thirsty as well, but I also feel like a sweat more when Im working out fasted. Maybe thats why? Maybe incorporate powerade zero's into your day? Strawberry is tasty

It is extremely important to make sure your water/sodium/potassium in take are all in line. Have too little can be as bad/worse than having too much.

Haven't heard of powerade zero so I'll have to look into it. As far as my Na+/K+ balance goes it is in check but recently I moved some foods around and am getting more water:sodium ratio early in the day so I shifted some sodium to balance things out. This is definitely working much better for me.

[PBateman2]

Haven't heard of powerade zero so I'll have to look into it. As far as my Na+/K+ balance goes it is in check but recently I moved some foods around and am getting more water:sodium ratio early in the day so I shifted some sodium to balance things out. This is definitely working much better for me.

Vitamin Water-Zero is good too

[determined4000]

To those of you trying to up potassium intake
http://www.thepotassiumrichfoods.com/

[kbm12345]

The more I think about this diet the more it makes sense, we are no different from animals and what animal do you ever see eating 6 times a day. The only animals that do are fat, such as cows and pigs. And all other animals that eat once per day are usually ripped. I feed my dog once per day and it performs at 100% all day easily.

This whole eating 6x per day thing i recon is starting to sound like rubbish.

[EmperorRyker]

The more I think about this diet the more it makes sense, we are no different from animals and what animal do you ever see eating 6 times a day. The only animals that do are fat, such as cows and pigs. And all other animals that eat once per day are usually ripped. I feed my dog once per day and it performs at 100% all day easily.

This whole eating 6x per day thing i recon is starting to sound like rubbish.

Wow, that's some bad logic if I ever saw such a thing.

[dollerbill]

I'd like to jump into IF sometime this weekend, so hopefully I can get past those first days that I've heard are the worst.

Depending on the day I normally work out at either 3ish pm or 9ish pm. If I fast from, for example, 11 pm - 3 pm, then on days I train early I can just start eating right after my workout (4 - 5ish), and on late days I can start eating at 3, workout at 9 and then continue to eat until 11? And I'm not to the point of counting macros yet, but is it still important to count calories with IF?