AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[yesildag00]

labels only have to be accurate +-10% so you dont have to fine tune your diet that exact. Just be consistent.

Your goal on this program is to stay around a bmi of 24 @13% body fat. That normally means starting the program a cut down to bmi 23, slow bulk over several cycle to bmi 25, and then have a final cycle cutting back down to 24.

As for you getting fat, a pound of fat is about 3500 cals, so that would be 10-15 extra pieces of cake each cycle, and you might gain 3/4 of a pound(since adding calories increases your energy levels and fidgeting, you burn some of it off).

I checked online my bmi is 24.6
But if i cut i will look very skinny because im tall .
Thats why i picked slow bulk.
You think can i keep running auto regulated even if i pass 25 bmi ? I want to cut when i bench 2 plates for reps

[bjw11180]

Generally its 10 sets of half your tested max, at least 30-45min apart. Retest every 2 weeks, and have a 72 hour break from them each week, the break does not have to line up with the 72 hour allpro break.

And yes you no longer have to do chinups during the allpro session. You can however still pick a bicep centric accessory. Hammer grip curls are good for eblow reenforcement in the bench press for example.

OK...other than the 72 hours off, should they be done every day?

[nightanole]

I checked online my bmi is 24.6
But if i cut i will look very skinny because im tall .
Thats why i picked slow bulk.
You think can i keep running auto regulated even if i pass 25 bmi ? I want to cut when i bench 2 plates for reps

Honestly it sounds like StartingStrength may be better suited to your goals. It litterally has you end with 2 plates for reps, at 18% body fat and a bmi of 25-26.

[nightanole]

OK...other than the 72 hours off, should they be done every day?

Yup 5 days a week. Its not really that taxing after the first 2 weeks, since you are doing half your max each time.

[cljolley]

Hey night, I’m on 11 rep week on cycle 2. All my lifts are going well except my curls. I feel as though I’m really struggling. My second set I really find myself breaking form to complete the last few reps. I had a similar struggle with the last cycle, but not as badly. It’s been this way the last couple weeks. Any insight? Should I just accept the failure and start the next cycle with the same weight?

1st cycle
Squat-90lbs
Bench-70lbs
Row-60lbs
OHP-50lbs
DL-100lbs
Curl-60lbs

2nd cycle
Squat-100lbs
Bench-100lbs
Row-90lbs
OHP-70lbs
DL-120lbs
Curl-70lbs

All these figures are assuming my standard barbell weighs 20lbs. I need to weight it though. I think it may actually be a bit less.

[yesildag00]

Honestly it sounds like StartingStrength may be better suited to your goals. It litterally has you end with 2 plates for reps, at 18% body fat and a bmi of 25-26.

I was doing fierce 5 before. I just dont like adding weight each session or week. Because i always fail if i do. I cant linearly add weight on 5 rep programs anymore. And i dont like training low reps, i already know how to perform these excersise correctly. Autoregulated is great because i add a rep or two each session. I really like this program and i want to stay with it, i just wonder is this program not work if i pass 25 bmi ?

[nightanole]

I was doing fierce 5 before. I just dont like adding weight each session or week. Because i always fail if i do. I cant linearly add weight on 5 rep programs anymore. And i dont like training low reps, i already know how to perform these excersise correctly. Autoregulated is great because i add a rep or two each session. I really like this program and i want to stay with it, i just wonder is this program not work if i pass 25 bmi ?

It will work fine at any bmi range, and you will make just as much muscle at any bmi range. This is a "body building" routine so its designed so you can run it while "lean", but that doesnt mean you have to.

[nightanole]

Hey night, I’m on 11 rep week on cycle 2. All my lifts are going well except my curls. I feel as though I’m really struggling. My second set I really find myself breaking form to complete the last few reps. I had a similar struggle with the last cycle, but not as badly. It’s been this way the last couple weeks. Any insight? Should I just accept the failure and start the next cycle with the same weight?

1st cycle
Squat-90lbs
Bench-70lbs
Row-60lbs
OHP-50lbs
DL-100lbs
Curl-60lbs

2nd cycle
Squat-100lbs
Bench-100lbs
Row-90lbs
OHP-70lbs
DL-120lbs
Curl-70lbs

All these figures are assuming my standard barbell weighs 20lbs. I need to weight it though. I think it may actually be a bit less.

Dont really care if you dont pass an accessory, i just need you to pass the row. The curl is the wild card, you could also switch it to upright rows, chinups, kroc rows, etc next cycle. It just needs to be a pull that involves the bicep.

[cljolley]

Dont really care if you dont pass an accessory, i just need you to pass the row. The curl is the wild card, you could also switch it to upright rows, chinups, kroc rows, etc next cycle. It just needs to be a pull that involves the bicep.

Well everything else is going just fine. The rows especially. I’m building strength very quickly on the rows. Now if I’m not progressing on the curls at the same rate as everything else, what does that mean? Am I not building muscle if I’m not completing the progression?

[nightanole]

Well everything else is going just fine. The rows especially. I’m building strength very quickly on the rows. Now if I’m not progressing on the curls at the same rate as everything else, what does that mean? Am I not building muscle if I’m not completing the progression?

How do i put this...

You will never progress on an accessory if you do not progress on the main compound.
If you are progressing on the compound, and maintaining the accessory, overall volume is increasing and so is progressive overload.

And the only way to grow muscle is progressive overload and slowly increasing weekly volume.

There may come a day when you have to drop the curl to continue the progression of the row, since the amount of volume you can handle goes up at 50% of the rate of your strength gains. Its why linear progression only works for so long and once you are done you switch to other more complex patterns that allow you to increase working weight on at least a few sets a week, while staying within your volume limits.

[cljolley]

How do i put this...

You will never progress on an accessory if you do not progress on the main compound.
If you are progressing on the compound, and maintaining the accessory, overall volume is increasing and so is progressive overload.

And the only way to grow muscle is progressive overload and slowly increasing weekly volume.

There may come a day when you have to drop the curl to continue the progression of the row, since the amount of volume you can handle goes up at 50% of the rate of your strength gains. Its why linear progression only works for so long and once you are done you switch to other more complex patterns that allow you to increase working weight on at least a few sets a week, while staying within your volume limits.

Oh I see. I didn’t know that the row targeted the biceps so much. Well that makes me feel better because I did up the weight significantly for the row on cycle two. Cool, thanks!

[bjw11180]

Yup 5 days a week. Its not really that taxing after the first 2 weeks, since you are doing half your max each time.

After having done 7 singles yesterday (I don't yet have a bar at home, and this was as many times as I could quickly duck into the gym at work) my elbows, forearms, and shoulders are pretty damn sore today. And it doesn't feel like a "good" kind of sore either, especially around the elbows.

Is this cause for concern? Should I just keep going? Or maybe work up to 10 in a day, say starting with 5 or something?

[bipixel]

[QUOTE=nightanole;1395383943]Part 1:

Is it work now ?

[nightanole]

After having done 7 singles yesterday (I don't yet have a bar at home, and this was as many times as I could quickly duck into the gym at work) my elbows, forearms, and shoulders are pretty damn sore today. And it doesn't feel like a "good" kind of sore either, especially around the elbows.

Is this cause for concern? Should I just keep going? Or maybe work up to 10 in a day, say starting with 5 or something?

Try 7 singles every other day.

[nightanole]

[QUOTE=bipixel;1561087271]

Part 1:

Is it work now ?

Wut?

[yesildag00]

hey night, im on second week on auto regulated program i just have a question about assistance excersise
i want to add a arm work but is it okay to add ?
im doing latpulldown instead of curls on this program but i still want to latpulldown and curls end of the workout, is it okay if i add it ?
Or should i wait a couple week more ?

[nightanole]

hey night, im on second week on auto regulated program i just have a question about assistance excersise
i want to add a arm work but is it okay to add ?
im doing latpulldown instead of curls on this program but i still want to latpulldown and curls end of the workout, is it okay if i add it ?
Or should i wait a couple week more ?

You can go nutts as long as your row total is going up at least 2 reps every monday for example. Once you add too much lat/bicep, you wont be able to recover, and row will stall.

[yesildag00]

You can go nutts as long as your row total is going up at least 2 reps every monday for example. Once you add too much lat/bicep, you wont be able to recover, and row will stall.

But if my row stalls my arm will not grow anyway
So you think its better if i add curls later if my arms lag ?

[nightanole]

But if my row stalls my arm will not grow anyway
So you think its better if i add curls later if my arms lag ?

That depends on whats causing the arms to lag. You might need forearm/grip work, or you may need a push. Or maybe you need a curl, but it should be hammer grip or supenation style.

The point is always focus on progression of the compounds and rotate in and out accessories as imbalances show up.

[LargePeter]

Bout to start the second cycle of 5 weeks after years of sporadic training and chitty diet due to injuries and time away because of my business

Breezed through the first cycle while also dropping 20lb; muscle is thickening up (possibly muscle memory) - so far so good!

Cycle 2 obviously resets to 8 reps with the 10% increase in weight tomorrow, can't wait.

[Blukbruh]

Very informative, thank you.

[polivoks]

Nope

3 work outs all heavies
You stop each set "at a slow rep"
Reps will naturally decrease as the week goes on, but say every monday's workout rep total should slowly increase
"pass day" may look like ; 11 reps first set, 8 reps second set, 6 reps 3rd set.

There is no "8 rep day" or "8 rep week" odds are every set will be different, and mondays rep total will be different than friday's rep total.

Ok, got burried on squat with 90kg, couldnt do 2 reps (i also couldnt do boxed that day so tried regular and even on 80kg was hard)..
so had to do 2 days with all lowered weights (squat 70kg as there are no 2.5kg plates) and now passed all with 3 sets with fast reps.

I think my diet was not in order here as i ate bit less while hiking and swimming a lot during a day here so on the evening when i got to gym i was already bit worked out, now im correcting this and eating more.

So just to check on this autoregulated we should be doing 3 sets of all lifts (squat, bench, row, ohp, sldl) + also all accessories 3 sets?

[daveminnich]

Hey Night, looking for another accessory to add for cycle 4 and I have a question on progression for the accessory I'm already doing.

These are the weights I'll be going into cycle 4 with on the main lifts:

Squat - 235
Bench - 135
Bent over row - 145
OHP - 80
SLDL - 195
Upright row - 95

1. The only accessory I'm currently doing is a set of paused close grip bench at 135lb. I'd like to keep doing it as it's making a noticeable difference in the development of my chest. Should I increase it by ~10% to 150lb?
2. Going by the weights I'll be lifting and the one accessory I'm already doing, which second accessory would you recommend I add for this cycle?

Thank you!

[nightanole]

Ok, got burried on squat with 90kg, couldnt do 2 reps (i also couldnt do boxed that day so tried regular and even on 80kg was hard)..
so had to do 2 days with all lowered weights (squat 70kg as there are no 2.5kg plates) and now passed all with 3 sets with fast reps.

I think my diet was not in order here as i ate bit less while hiking and swimming a lot during a day here so on the evening when i got to gym i was already bit worked out, now im correcting this and eating more.

So just to check on this autoregulated we should be doing 3 sets of all lifts (squat, bench, row, ohp, sldl) + also all accessories 3 sets?

Uh i dont track every one.

You have 2 choices on auto regulated:

2 work sets of every exercise, rep goal of 24, warmups on squat/bench/row

Or

"novice"
3 worksets(so an extra 90 seconds of rest since you can tax yourself more) of squat/bench/row, rep goal of 24, and 2 work sets of the rest, rep goal of 24, warmups on squat/bench/row

[nightanole]

Hey Night, looking for another accessory to add for cycle 4 and I have a question on progression for the accessory I'm already doing.

These are the weights I'll be going into cycle 4 with on the main lifts:

Squat - 235
Bench - 135
Bent over row - 145
OHP - 80
SLDL - 195
Upright row - 95

1. The only accessory I'm currently doing is a set of paused close grip bench at 135lb. I'd like to keep doing it as it's making a noticeable difference in the development of my chest. Should I increase it by ~10% to 150lb?
2. Going by the weights I'll be lifting and the one accessory I'm already doing, which second accessory would you recommend I add for this cycle?

Thank you!

1) increase the weight so that you dont have to pause longer than 3 seconds in on order to keep the reps below 5. I believe last cycle it took 5-8 seconds in order to get 135 that low. So you might need to up it past 150.

2) Honestly the next accessory is up to you, because all your lifts are within specs. "cosmetically" long term beginner routine users (allpro included) need side delt and lat work as they get closer to intermediate. So you could check out a few exercises that hit those areas, try them at the gym, and see which ones feel good without affecting performance of the core program. I dont want the row to stall because you went nutts on chinups for example.

[cljolley]

"novice"
3 worksets(so an extra 90 seconds of rest since you can tax yourself more) of squat/bench/row, rep goal of 24, and 2 work sets of the rest, rep goal of 24, warmups on squat/bench/row

Night I am confused by this post, are you saying as a novice we can/should be doing three worksets of the main three compounds? What do you mean an extra ninety seconds of rest?
I guess Im confused where you say three sets, and then two sets. What exactly did you mean by this?

[AlexLifting97]

Hi Nightanole,

Over the time you've been over seeing All Pros i've noticed stuff that seems like alternated versions of the program, do you mind getting me up to speed with what's currently going on?

I remember i checked the forum around 1/2 years ago and i saw a changed version where you were having people going for 12 reps on both sets everyday and trying to progress as much as possible ( no heavy,medium,light) do you still suggest this variation of the program?

Also how do you feel about doing 3 sets on the compound lifts.

Would love to know your thoughts on the above. If you think nothing should be changed and should be followed as the core routine let me know, have followed the original program in the past and had great results. ( just looking to get some extra work in )

[nightanole]

Night I am confused by this post, are you saying as a novice we can/should be doing three worksets of the main three compounds? What do you mean an extra ninety seconds of rest?
I guess Im confused where you say three sets, and then two sets. What exactly did you mean by this?

"novice" is switching "up to" the first 3 lifts (bench/row/squat) to 3 sets of 4-8 reps, instead of 2 sets of 8-12 reps. If you do the math, test day is still 24 reps, but now you have 2 90 second rests.

[nightanole]

Hi Nightanole,

Over the time you've been over seeing All Pros i've noticed stuff that seems like alternated versions of the program, do you mind getting me up to speed with what's currently going on?

I remember i checked the forum around 1/2 years ago and i saw a changed version where you were having people going for 12 reps on both sets everyday and trying to progress as much as possible ( no heavy,medium,light) do you still suggest this variation of the program?

Also how do you feel about doing 3 sets on the compound lifts.

Would love to know your thoughts on the above. If you think nothing should be changed and should be followed as the core routine let me know, have followed the original program in the past and had great results. ( just looking to get some extra work in )

There are 4 variants to allpro.

The official ones from allpro himself are "novice" which is switching up to the first 3 big compounds (bench/row/squat) to 3 sets of 4-8 reps(same 90 seconds or less rest), and "heavy heavy" which is 2 sessions a week, both heavies, and the first 3 lifts are 3 sets of 8-12 reps, but "test day" is still 2 sets.

My variant is nick named "auto regulated" its a "simple" version of the vikings bar bones:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1376160513

Finally there is "butchered" but it is not very popular, i refer to it as "the bulking edition" as thats the only way to survive it. It has its own thread somewhere and i do not support it.

[cljolley]

"novice" is switching "up to" the first 3 lifts (bench/row/squat) to 3 sets of 4-8 reps, instead of 2 sets of 8-12 reps. If you do the math, test day is still 24 reps, but now you have 2 90 second rests.

Oh I see. So is there any benefit to doing the 3 sets over the two sets if I’ve already completed 2 cycles doing 2 work sets each exercise? How long would one consider themselves a novice?
Also what don’t you like about the “butchered” edition?