Intermittent Fasting for Strength Training and Fat Loss

[Insight]

That's not what Brad Pillion recommends in Eat Stop Eat.

btw what do you mean by 8hr feeding window?

there are different types of intermittent fasting. eat stop eat is one type (a 24 hour fast several times throughout the week), the warrior diet is another type (like a 23/1 style fast, 23 hours of fasting and then you eat a giant meal which might last 1 hours), and Martin's "lean gains" approach is another type (16/8, where you don't eat for 16 hours and eat in the last 8 hours of the day).

[apace]

If i train at 9 pm can i like spread 3 protein shakes in the day then eat a big meal at 10 pm
say 1 st protein shake at 12 pm 1 at 3 pm and 1 before workout or just take bcaa
or should i eat solid food like a piece of chicken breast with some mixed veg ?

[SuffolkPunch]

This is covered here:

http://leangains.blogspot.com/2010/0...-training.html

[gbv2]

If i train at 9 pm can i like spread 3 protein shakes in the day then eat a big meal at 10 pm
say 1 st protein shake at 12 pm 1 at 3 pm and 1 before workout or just take bcaa
or should i eat solid food like a piece of chicken breast with some mixed veg ?

There is the 2 pre wo meals, 1 post wo meal protocol you could try. Go for whole food mate. A protein shake for a meal is a very poor meal option. How long could you possibly keep that up for? Go for something with 'long term' in mind. Whatever you decide make it suit you and make sure it keeps you motivated and happy.

[ss4vegeta1]

there are different types of intermittent fasting. eat stop eat is one type (a 24 hour fast several times throughout the week), the warrior diet is another type (like a 23/1 style fast, 23 hours of fasting and then you eat a giant meal which might last 1 hours), and Martin's "lean gains" approach is another type (16/8, where you don't eat for 16 hours and eat in the last 8 hours of the day).

Not sure if its 7x in a week for eat stop eat. But thanks for the info.

[Insight]

Not sure if its 7x in a week for eat stop eat. But thanks for the info.

"several"

vs

"seven"

[fni]

I have no computer access for awhile, so I'm on my phone and it's a bit difficult to go through 100pgs worth of info...

May someone please point me in the right direction in terms of doing IF with a higher bf% and what/how to arrange macros in a situation like this? Are the macros different in relation to 'normal' diets? How do you know if you should do a low-carb IF or moderate carb intake?I know that Mark offers this in his consultations but does anyone else know or can help?

Also, what if you have a day or two that differs in fasting/eating schedule than the other 5 days? I know it's advised to keep it consistent, but is it okay to do?

[iDrive]

May someone please point me in the right direction in terms of doing IF

http://leangains.blogspot.com/2010/0...ins-guide.html

higher bf% and what/how to arrange macros in a situation like this?

Macros don't matter much. I believe Martin has clients eat more carbs on training days and more fats on off days. Regardless a deficit must be maintained.

Are the macros different in relation to 'normal' diets? How do you know if you should do a low-carb IF or moderate carb intake?I know that Mark offers this in his consultations but does anyone else know or can help?

IMO it doesn't matter. Others may be able to chime in here.

Also, what if you have a day or two that differs in fasting/eating schedule than the other 5 days? I know it's advised to keep it consistent, but is it okay to do?

It's fine, you may screw up when you get hungry the following day. Keeping the window constant is just for adherence since you tend to get used to eating at x:xx

[fni]

Thanks for the reponse.
Macros are essentially similar to wavelenght's 3 rules then, right? Keep protein at 1g/lbm and just eat at a deficit. I'm just curious when you should consider doing "low-carb", I guess it really comes down to how you feel about carbs and how sensitive you are to them because otherwise you could really load up on those carbs.

[Malkira]

I've just reread The Leangains Guide and wanted an opinion on my specific situation in two scenarios.

I've been doing RFL (Lyle's PSMF) and while working great, I have two vacations coming up in very close proximity. I know myself well enough to know that I won't have any diet adherence trying to eat 3-4 meals a day while at the beach so I'd like to try Intermittent Fasting to see if that helps.

Vacation starts June 26th, so I plan to ease into this, as last RFL cycle I tried to go straight to maintenance and it failed.

So, June 13th will be a very strict, low fat carb refeed. The next day, I'd like to add carbs back in, amounting to back over 100g.

My daily schedule looks like:
Wake at 5am
Home from work at 5pm
Bed at 8:30-9pm

I train twice a week, Weds 5pm-6:30pm, Sunday is 3pm-4:30pm.
I'm confused when to have my feeding window in this scenario. I'd probably prefer getting 2 meals a day tops, since I'm so used to just eating 3 now.

Second scenario is on vacation itself. There won't be ANY training, so I'm not sure how I would have the feeding window. How many meals?

[wheathins]

My daily schedule looks like:
Wake at 5am
Home from work at 5pm
Bed at 8:30-9pm

I train twice a week, Weds 5pm-6:30pm, Sunday is 3pm-4:30pm.
I'm confused when to have my feeding window in this scenario. I'd probably prefer getting 2 meals a day tops, since I'm so used to just eating 3 now.

Second scenario is on vacation itself. There won't be ANY training, so I'm not sure how I would have the feeding window. How many meals?

I've got a similar schedule to yours, wake at 6 for work and I'm at the gym by 4:30 but I train 3 days a week. I keep my feeding window at the same time every day, training or not, just to keep the routine going and get my body aclimated to it. So I usually break the fast around 1:00 p.m. then eat my last meal between 8-9:00 p.m. While your on vacation just keep the window the same as when your training. If you leave your window open from 12-8 then that will allow you to have lunch and dinner like you would normally. The biggest concern I'd have with going on vacation is not the window but what you eat/drink during that time. Just keep your fast for at least 16 hours and enjoy yourself.


edit** Holy **** I just saw your weight loss stats, very impressive! Nice job dude!

[Malkira]

I've got a similar schedule to yours, wake at 6 for work and I'm at the gym by 4:30 but I train 3 days a week. I keep my feeding window at the same time every day, training or not, just to keep the routine going and get my body aclimated to it. So I usually break the fast around 1:00 p.m. then eat my last meal between 8-9:00 p.m. While your on vacation just keep the window the same as when your training. If you leave your window open from 12-8 then that will allow you to have lunch and dinner like you would normally. The biggest concern I'd have with going on vacation is not the window but what you eat/drink during that time. Just keep your fast for at least 16 hours and enjoy yourself.


edit** Holy **** I just saw your weight loss stats, very impressive! Nice job dude!

Thanks!

When you do 1pm-9pm, how many meals is that generally? Do you do the same for off days? I know the guide says that for non training days, some people conserve calories for the normal time dinner meal. I'm just curious how that works out in practical application.

[iDrive]

Thanks for the reponse.
Macros are essentially similar to wavelenght's 3 rules then, right? Keep protein at 1g/lbm and just eat at a deficit.

Essentially

I'm just curious when you should consider doing "low-carb", I guess it really comes down to how you feel about carbs and how sensitive you are to them because otherwise you could really load up on those carbs.

Some people are fine on low carbs and prefer it and some people can't function well on low carb and shouldn't torture themselves. Try it if you want and see how you do otherwise you won't know how you're affected.

The only time I could see recommending low carb over another type of diet is if you wanted to really lean out for a competition (or beach day) to lose a couple pounds of water weight.

Thanks!

When you do 1pm-9pm, how many meals is that generally? Do you do the same for off days? I know the guide says that for non training days, some people conserve calories for the normal time dinner meal. I'm just curious how that works out in practical application.

Just don't eat until everyone else eats dinner. Then you can enjoy the meal with everyone without worrying. If you're not training the timing doesn't really matter.

[S62]

Martin, a question that I have wanted to ask you, inspired by the post you made about leptin sensitivity a while ago...

You say that you maintain 5.5% BF year round without a problem, and you suffer from none of the symptoms that Lyle generally cites.

Given that you and your clients seem to be the singular counterexamples to this so-called data that Lyle keeps mentioning, where he has never seen anything to indicate that the body's set point can go back down (only up), I have to ask:

- what are your thoughts on "set point" theory in general? Do you think it has much merit at all, having accomplished what you have?
- do you perhaps think that you have managed to get your body to change its "set point" to be 5.5% BF, perhaps by increasing leptin sensitivity in a way that has not yet been documented?
- do you think that the reason people seem to be stuck with a permanently higher set point and that you aren't is that they try to lose the weight too fast, or something like that?
- Do you have to constantly count cals and make sure you don't go over, or do you just naturally go by hunger with a vague idea of what's in each meal and your body truly self-regulates at 5.5%? you're not constantly hungry or anything like that?

I hope I can catch you on this subject. I was real optimistic about getting lean before I read Lyle's thoughts on the subject, but you seem to be a counterexample of all of it. Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Bump for some answers

[HUNTER1313]

I am curious, alot of people say not to eat before bed because it hampers the release of GH and other hormones. Now do we really have to worry about this as we fast all day and hormones get released then and during our fasted training or should I make sure not to eat within a few hours before bed to make sure I get all the hormone release I need?

[moasis]

Don't know if people are still posting progress but I started on Friday( 3 days ago) and I've lost 3 lbs and the funny thing is I was eating cleaner before I started IF so I don't think it's water weight. I would say I was eating about a 7 on a 10 scale as far as eating clean before IF and now I would say I'm doing about 5.5. My one rep max went up on bench too. I benched on Friday and I did 315X4 and today I did 315X5 although I was already close to that fifth rep I think IF pushed it on through for me. I'm losing weight and getting stronger. YOU CAN NEVER ARGUE WITH THOSE RESULTS.

[DefiningMoments]

do you guys still take post workout shakes or meals doing IF? because I workout in the mornings...

[koreanjason]

Because of money sake i just take it right after workouts

[determined4000]

do you guys still take post workout shakes or meals doing IF? because I workout in the mornings...

IF is really not ideal for morning workouts unless you are planning on having your entire feeding window right after.

[The Solution]

IF is really not ideal for morning workouts unless you are planning on having your entire feeding window right after.

Not True, Read Martin's last post on taking BCAA's post-workout every few hours and then eating your meal later in the day. Its perfectly fine to IF anytime. I use to have my eating window starting at 7 a.m. in the morning. You just have to make it work for YOUR schedule. It doesnt matter if you eat later or earlier.

[DefiningMoments]

Not True, Read Martin's last post on taking BCAA's post-workout every few hours and then eating your meal later in the day. Its perfectly fine to IF anytime. I use to have my eating window starting at 7 a.m. in the morning. You just have to make it work for YOUR schedule. It doesnt matter if you eat later or earlier.

alright I was getting worried.. because my schedule has been working out around 8-9am with a protein shake in the morning... and depending if I'm working that day I'll eat my food at 1 or 2pm or 7-9pm if im not working.

[The Solution]

alright I was getting worried.. because my schedule has been working out around 8-9am with a protein shake in the morning... and depending if I'm working that day I'll eat my food at 1 or 2pm or 7-9pm if im not working.

If your having a protein shake thats breaking the fast. BCAA's and Whey Protein are not digested the same way. If you have any whole food or whey protein your breaking the fast and that starts your 8 hour window. If you just take 5-10g of BCAA's after an early morning workout and push your first meal to a 1-9 eating window then fine.

[bigred4wvu]

is this ok or am i over training.

monday: Basketball at 11am and at 7pm
tuesday: 6am lift
weds: Basketball at 11am and 5pm
thurs: 6am lift
fri: Basketball at 4pm
sat: 6am lift
sun: 6am lift

I also play basketball on lifting days sometimes.


What do you guys think i should do since i enjoy playing so much basketball.


Lift and play on the same day and take a whole day off inbetween??


thanks for the help/info

[ob205]

I would say to only lift 3 days a week if you really love to play BB. Also, I think it places the most stress on the legs, so I would position leg day after a day of rest (no BB).

[Nutir]

Just started keto+IF again, basic schedule:

mowefr: bcaas during my 9am class, gym around 10, get home around 11-1130 drink a shake, eat a huge meal, class from 1 to 4, eat the remaining of my caps when I get home

TTh: start feeding around 11-1130, go to class, do cardio, eat until 630ish

not sure about weekends.

This will also help me cut down on my drinking

[LeroysAces]

is this ok or am i over training.

monday: Basketball at 11am and at 7pm
tuesday: 6am lift
weds: Basketball at 11am and 5pm
thurs: 6am lift
fri: Basketball at 4pm
sat: 6am lift
sun: 6am lift

I also play basketball on lifting days sometimes.


What do you guys think i should do since i enjoy playing so much basketball.


Lift and play on the same day and take a whole day off inbetween??


thanks for the help/info

Jeez, you play a lot of hoops! It depends on your overall goals (which I know are to lose weight based on your PM to me). Your squats and deadlifts are going to suffer no matter what you do, because of all the basketball. I would do deadlifts and back on Mondays before hoops and eat a ton of protein that day. Then probably upper body on Wednesday and then squats and legs on Friday. Again, a lot of protein and more carbs. I would walk and go low carb on the other 4 days and use those days to rest and recover, also lower calorie intake and lose weight. You are overtraining right now...that is almost a certainty.

I assume you are doing squats and deadlifts? (I rarely deadlifted until last year, so I shouldn't talk.)

[LeroysAces]

I would argue that macros do matter quite a bit actually. Martin is pretty clear as to what to do in a general sense in his LeanGains guide.

[HUNTER1313]

I just had to laugh at my boss today. Yesterday he pretty much told me I had to eat. Today he says since I dont eat all day I will get diabetes. Some people.

[SpagsFitness]

Alright, so i've been attempted an IF lifestyle for the past two weeks. I wanted to note some of the changes i've noticed, and further was interested if there were any suggestions for how I can optimize the results.

First: 19yrs. old, 180lbs 5'8'' ...somewhere between 9-12% BF (Really hard to tell with me, and I can't use the calipers on myself, so i'm stuck just going off looks).

Anyways, I follow the 16 hour off / 8 hour on routine. I eat from 12-8, and fast in between. I've been attempting to only eat 2-4 times, usually three. I break my fast at 12, and eat a good size meal at about 3-6 (depending) then a medium meal at 8. I drink coffee and water in the morning. I don't count calories, but I usually end up taking in about 2500 kcal/day. Here are some things i've noticed. I try to follow a 40/40/20, but it usually ends up as a 37/38/25 (I can't keep fat too low no matter how hard i've tried).

-I'm much more focused in the morning, and I usually wake up feeling refreshed.
-I look much leaner in the morning, and have huge amounts of energy (until breaking my fast).
-My weight has stayed about steady, and my lifts haven't suffered at all.
-Hard to tell if i'm losing BF, and can't say if its IF or not (yet)...also kcal might be high.
-Its really easy to follow.
-Its really helped me pin down when i'm hungry, and when I just want to eat.

The other things I have run into.

-I'm ravenous from about 10pm till I go to sleep, and from about 10am-breaking my fast, even this far in (I've eaten breakfast every day since I could eat real food, so I don't know if that could be a part of it).
-I tend to be more lax because I feel a large part of the diet is the fasting (I know this isn't actually the case, but its psychological...I don't feel as guilty since i'm only eating a few meals, a few hours, a day).
-When I get as hungry as I am on IF, I crave really crappy foods, and have a hard time resisting. (I know a large amount of this amounts to will power, but I haven't had this issue on a 6x/day meal plan)

Everything into consideration, I really like IF (so far). Its really easy to maintain, and practical in real life. I also don't know if this has to do with the fact that a fasted body looks leaner, but I feel like, despite how crappy i've reverted to eating while on IF, I still am looking better.

I'm definitely not saying anything against IF, I just want to know if these issues are common, or will pass, or if its a sign that my body is not well suited for it (doubt this).

All comments and answers are appreciated.

[determined4000]

Alright, so i've been attempted an IF lifestyle for the past two weeks.

.

1.you get hungry because a) your body isnt adjusted and b) you admit you are eating some crappy foods that probably arent as satiating as cleaner options
2. Forget a 40-40-20 diet. Needs are bodyweight based-->shoot for 1.25g-1.5g/lb in protein and .5g/lb in fat and you will probably feel fuller
3. If you want to lose weight, IF is not magic. You still need to eat fewer calories-->drop 10% for a week and then reassess.