Joel's Training Journal

[young_squatter]

Agreed, I eat at least 100 grams of fat a day and I am a lot smaller. Like spy said, it should be 25% of your diet.

[Joel H]

Only 50grams? That is really low, especially for bulking - where fat triggers testosterone. Fats are pretty much the most anabolic thing we can digest. I aim around 20-25% fat each day.

Well I'm game. Help me with my diet Spy. How about I write down my diet and you tell me how to add fat to it and what you would change? I've heard eating fats with carbs is a quick ticket to get fat, so how do you get all your fat in? Eat a protein/fat meal with no carbs once or twice a day? Like at night?

Here is my typical diet:

Breakfast
1 cup egg whites and 1 yolk
2 slices 2% cheese
2 cups milk
2 toast

Alternate breakfast: 2 scoops whey, 2 cups milk, bagel.

pre workout:
4 bananas
4 cups milk
2 scoops whey

Post workout:
4 bananas
4 cups milk
2 scoops whey

Dinner: chili, hamburger helper, or rice and chicken, or some sort of noodle/chiken and tuna caserole thing. IN the summer it's almost always a steak and potato.

2nd dinner: Same as breakfast but mixed with hash browns instead of toast. Alternately a chicken fahjita.

Bed time: 1 cup milk, 2 scoops whey handful of peanuts or a tuna salad and peanuts.

I didn't list exact amounts as it varies if I'm bulking or cutting, but generally meals meals are 40% protein and 60% carbs, and bed time meal is 60% to 100 percent protein and 40 to 0% carbs. So if you have any suggestions on how to get more fat in my diet, let me know. Right now typical fat sources are cheese, olive oil I cook the hash browns in, all the beef and chicken I eat, and some from the cottage cheese I'll eat. I have fish oil pills and could get some EFA's if you think they are worth it.

[Joel H]

Oh yeah I usually eat oatmeal a few times a week too, usually for breakfast.

[Rane14]

Oh yeah I usually eat oatmeal a few times a week too, usually for breakfast.

oatmeal kicks ass, solid workouts Joel, good luck with the goals.

[Joel H]

Thanks Rane. I'm definitely interested in seeing what fat can do for me, if it's as anabolic as Spy says it is, maybe I'll get a nice boost in test and make some good gains.

[spytech]

Excess fat + excess carbs = fat.

Like WL said, I get alot of fats from my normal foods I eat everyday - oats, cottage cheese, beef etc.

My favorite fat source is peanut butter. Nothing like 4+tablespoons of pb on low-carb bread for a good sandwich.

You can always add in 1% or 2% milk too for more fats.

[Joel H]

I drink a gallon of milk a day, how much fat does a cup of 1% have in it? (I drink fat free now)

I might get more than I think, I do eat oatmeal and it has fat in it, 2-6 slices of 2% cheese a day, etc. Since I like to just count grams of protein and carbs, how do you suggest implementing a certain amount of fat? I guess switching to 1% would add quite a bit I bet, probably enough, but then I might have to lower cals a bit from everything else to compensate for the added cals.

[young_squatter]

Spytech just gave the best example to get fat in, PEANUT BUTTER, it taste so good and has healthy fats. 4 tbs of that a day and you got 30 grams of extra fat. If you want to supplement with fats try fish oil, flax seed oil, olive oil etc.

Also dont worry about eating carbs with fat, I always do it for breakfast, my breakfast is 100 carbs and 20 grams of fat and I have not gotten fat yet. Its about calories excess.

[waitlifter82]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...617&query_hl=1

suggests that saturated fat is anabolic....

[Joel H]

Well I've experimented with peanut butter but it seems to be the quick road to getting fat. It's loaded with fat and sugar, two things a bodybuilder should avoid eating together at the same time. I guess I'm a bit nervous about adding a lot of fat to my diet, but then again, I'll have to take away some food. As for eating fat with carbs, I've read countless articles about that being a great way to get fat quick. Spike insulin from the carbs, and add fat, which takes NO effort for the body to CONVERT to fat, and boom you've got yourself a growing gut. I don't want to get into a diet arguement, but I guarantee you for every article you find saying its cool to eat fat with carbs, I can find 10 that say contrary. I've tried to add fat to my diet, and it seems like I suddenly gain a lot of fat. Maybe its because I was adding peanut butter to my protein shakes. I don't know. I'll wait to hear what spytech says, he's my new trainer I think it would be best to eat fat in between meals, like maybe a tablespoon of natty PB, or to eat it with non carb meals to avoid insulin spikes, like eat it with meat. Just my two cents.

[spytech]

I eat PB like its being banned tomorrow.

As you know, fat doesnt make a person fat - excess calories is the biggest contributor. Yes, if you add a bunch of PB and don't change anything else, then yeah, you will get fat. If you add PB, and take some protein out (you are probably taking in more than you need anyways, most of us do), you will be fine. Just have to balance everything out.

[waitlifter82]

Well I've experimented with peanut butter but it seems to be the quick road to getting fat. It's loaded with fat and sugar, two things a bodybuilder should avoid eating together at the same time. I guess I'm a bit nervous about adding a lot of fat to my diet, but then again, I'll have to take away some food. As for eating fat with carbs, I've read countless articles about that being a great way to get fat quick. Spike insulin from the carbs, and add fat, which takes NO effort for the body to CONVERT to fat, and boom you've got yourself a growing gut. I don't want to get into a diet arguement, but I guarantee you for every article you find saying its cool to eat fat with carbs, I can find 10 that say contrary. I've tried to add fat to my diet, and it seems like I suddenly gain a lot of fat. Maybe its because I was adding peanut butter to my protein shakes. I don't know. I'll wait to hear what spytech says, he's my new trainer I think it would be best to eat fat in between meals, like maybe a tablespoon of natty PB, or to eat it with non carb meals to avoid insulin spikes, like eat it with meat. Just my two cents.

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-B00001-01c225D.html
2grams = tons???

[Glyder]

Goto a health food store and get Natural PB. No added salt or sugar. Ours in town has a pb maker. You put in a bag of normal unsalted peanuts, and it grinds em up into PB for ya.

I love it on my toast and in my shakes!

[Joel H]

Well I think those DB walks I did yesterday combined with some more food have got my arms growing, and spy's arm routine is slightly different than what I was doing... regardless, I broke the tape out cause my arms were looking and feeling huge... 17 3/8"! Hopefully it's not some fluke reading. See pic!

[spytech]

It is mostly because my routine kicks ass. Most people add 2lbs of lean mass just by reading it, let alone doing it.

[Joel H]

It is mostly because my routine kicks ass. Most people add 2lbs of lean mass just by reading it, let alone doing it.

ROFL!!!! Good stuff! I might have to try the dumbbell walks with triceps now. I've done drop sets but these are a bit different. Well I guess I'll gulp down a tablespoon of skippy natty PB in about an hour. I'll just do a couple of them in between meals and see what happens, and perhaps try some 1% milk. Still damn excited to see some growth in the arms. Hopefully the fat missing in my diet will be like a new found missing link that will make me explode.

I guess I better read the other half of spytech's routine, I only read the first part so the 2nd half ought to get me another pound of mass

[Rane14]

natty PB is the best. same with milk.

[Joel H]

Chest/Shoulders/Triceps

Hammer Bench: 275 x 2
Incline Flyes 65 x 3
Military Press: 175 x 3 (175 x 4)
DB Press: 50 x 6 (50x 6)
Side Laterals: 25 x 5 (25 x 4)
Rear Laterals: 125 x 7 (125 x 5)
Overhead Tricep hammer grip machine: 160 x 3.5 (160x3)
V bar Tricep Pressdowns: 180 x 6 (180x5)
Rev grip CG bench press: 165 x 5 (155 x 6)
Triceps dumbell walks

Comments:Well I went back to hammer bench and incline flyes as I think those are the best chest exercises for me. Also my right shoulder hurt a little, something I did Monday on the new chest exercises messed me up a bit, so I couldn't use 70 like I usually do. I got a few PR's later in the workout and finished my arms with triceps walks in the same fashion I did the other day for biceps, it felt awesome. Weighed in at 217, I was down to 212 on Monday! So thats a bit scary I hope my stomach doesn't explode. I feel and look way bigger though, so I'm happy about that. I'll measure tomorrow as this ends week one for me. Unfortunately I can't lift tomorrow and thus missed a workout but Sunday I'll start the overload phase of SHSHT.

See pics.

[Glyder]

It is mostly because my routine kicks ass. Most people add 2lbs of lean mass just by reading it, let alone doing it.

Oh lord that was funny!!!

Nice workout Joel!

[Joel H]

Stats in parenthesis from Last weekend:

Weight: 217 (212) + 5 pounds
Arm: 17 1/4" (16 7/8") + 3/8"
Chest: 47 3/4" (47 3/8") +3/8"
Thigh: 27 1/4" same
Stomach: 37 1/4" (37")

Comments: Well considering I only had one leg workout that was not full effort due to my tailbone injury I didn't expect to grow. Overall I'm very happy, thats a lot of mass gains. A lot of it's water, etc, but still I'm happy to be gaining. I'm sure to blow right by 220 this time with a smaller stomach, and reach 225 to 230 before I have to cut.

[Joel H]

Back/Biceps
CG Pulldowns: 175 x 6 (175 x 4)
DB Rows: 80 x 7 (80 x 6)
Deadlifts: 225 x 4
Shrugs: 425 x 4
Weighted Chins: 0 x 7 (0 x 6)
EZ curls: 100 x 3 (100 x 2)
DB Hammers: 35 x 4 (35 x 3)
Cable Curls: 110 x 8 (110 x 5)
Dumbbell walk: 10-30x2-10. I made it to two reps on 30 this time

Comments: Most amazing workout, the volume felt perfect, and throwing in rest pause at the end of each set (except deads and DB rows) was so sweet. Hit stacks of PR's, and considering all the volume, I was amazed. Hour and 15 minutes. I only did 2 sets of deads, I'm still new to that lift and working out the form. I'll probably incrase weight soon, I'm just taking it pretty easy as the last thing I want to do is screw up my back and be sidelined. My biceps were so pumped and the veins showing, it's been a long time since I've seen that with all the elbow injuries I've had. It's nice going heavy without trashing my elbows, my biceps are going to explode, I just know it! I looked huge in the gym, I can tell I'm growing again, looking so big, I just love it! It was hard, but damn it felt great. Nice routine Spy!!

[Joel H]

Legs

Barbell Squats: 315 x 2
Leg Press: 630 x 1, 540 x 3 (450 x 3)
Leg Curl: 200 x 3
Standing smith calf raise: 235 x 20 (225 x 20)
Behind the back wrist curls: 95 x 20

Comments: After reading a detailed article on HOW TO SQUAT, I got the courage to tackle these again. I went a little heavy and felt a bit nervous but made it through 2 reps at 315. Not much, I know, but after not squatting for years after my 460 pound squat back injury, I will have to work back to that. Right now I'm focusing on trying to go parallel with perfect form. I guess it pre-exhausted me I thought I could get 2 with 630, but barely got one with a tiny bit of a spot by pushing on my knees. I abandoned SLDL because I just did reg deadlifts yesterday and honestly that is plenty. Later on when I plateau on leg curls, I'll switch to SLDL and dump reg deads for a while. I'll mark 315 x 2 as a PR, since I haven't squatted for years now really. Great workout overall. Rest pause was killer on leg press. I know my legs are going to grow from this workout, big time.

[Joel H]

Kind of a screwy day but after two unsceduled days off I had to do SOMETHING...

Hammer Bench:275 x 4 (275 x 2)
Incline Flyes: 65 x 7 (65 x 3)
Military Press Machine: 175 x 3 (175 x 3)
EZ bar curls: 100 x 4 (100 x 3)
Overhead Tricep 160 x 4 (160 x 3)

I did dumbbell walks for triceps/biceps, and made it to the 35's this time for 1 rep Pretty strong workout, I was amazed. Got PR's on about everything

[Joel H]

Sorry for the lack of updates. Last week I did SHSHT week 4 of phase 1 again, but I replaced rest pause with burns (partial reps). Growth was tremendous in legs and chest, but arms only grew a litte. I've started my own strength routine, based on the idea that if I can increase my strength quite a bit, when I return to high volume training, I should explode in size.

Strength routine: 2 sets per exercise, 2-5 reps, 2-3 minutes rest.

EZ bar curls: 110 x 3 (100 x 6)
Hammer DB curls: 40 x 6 (35 x 7)
Cable Curls: 140 x 5 (130 x 5)
Hammer tricep press: 165 x 5 (160 x 7)
Tricep pressdown 200 x 5 (180 x 7)

10 cardio.

PR's everywhere. I'm going to keep cals high and just do cardio, test the grow while you deload theory, and some other theories that I'm doing too much volume on arms, so maybe I'll continue growing using this low volume heavy stuff. I doubt it, but if I lower cals to the point where I'm trying to lose fat or something, I'll never know. Also by keeping cals pretty high I will maximize my strength gains, which is the whole idea of this phase. First day went excellent. Maybe 3-4 weeks is all I need if it goes this well.

[Jeffo]

Hi Joel,

Good to see you're still pounding away. I haven't read your entire thread, but it looks like you're moving in a good direction. From what I understand, you're starting to cycle hypertrophy and strength training in a more distinct manner. Sounds good.

Just to let you know if you're interested, I'll be getting back into the gym in the New Year. I think I'll have a good 6-7 months to train before I have to quit again for an unknown amount of time. I've also got a lot of new ideas running through my head, of which MN is still a part, and am lookinig forward to putting them into practice.

I've shrunk to sad proportions as well. I'm a whopping 178 at the moment, and my arms measure just over a measily 15". A far cry from the 220 at 17 1/2" where I left off eh? Well, I hope to get back to where I was quickly and break the 18" arm burrier before I have to quit again.

Take care bro,
Jeff

[Joel H]

Wow Jeff, you shrank fast! Thats another thing good I've read about strength training is that if you are really strong, you won't lose as much size if you have to take a layoff, versus the bodybuilder who has never trained for strength, they deflate like a popped balloon once they put down the iron. I know I did too in 2004 when I couldn't train, I shrunk down to 180 over the course of 10 months or so. They also always say that stronger bodybuilders have a more dense mature muscle look to them, so I think we might be on to something.

Muscle memory is there, you'll blow back up again once you start. Basically Gallaman and Steve Jones are saying strength is key to getting huge. Gallaman has been cycling strength training in between his MN cycles and he keeps growing. He's up to 18.5" on arms and he just started MN again, predicting he'll hit 19" by the time this next 6 week MN cycle is over. Steve went from a 44" gut to 5% bodyfat, so those guys are pretty much our front runners with the system right now, but they are both advocates of being super strong.

Anyhow, I just started the strength training, so I won't know if it works until I switch back to MN sometime in late Jan or early February after I get my strength up quite a bit.

[Jeffo]

Thats another thing good I've read about strength training is that if you are really strong, you won't lose as much size if you have to take a layoff, versus the bodybuilder who has never trained for strength, they deflate like a popped balloon once they put down the iron.

I've heard this as well. Unfortunately, it's bull. How fast you shrink has more to do with your food intake during the break, and how far you were past your natural untrained bodysize. It has nothing to do with the workouts you used to build your muscle.

That said, strength is certainly a key in hypertrophy. What we mustn't get caught up in, however, is thinking that we have to be able to demonstrate how strong we are all the time. This is where some trainees go astray. Demonstratable strength comes in cycles for many more advanced athletes, and for periods of time they forget about making new PR's and concentrate on preparing themselves for them in the future.

You've been pounding away on high volume stuff for a long time. I think you're ripe for a relatively low volume strength phase for a good 4-6 weeks or so, before ramping again. Take it easy on the arm work as well, and put the tape measure away for a while. Essentially, concentrate on strength for the next little while, come what may with the measurements. If you've played your fatigue card right, it should be no problem to gain a good amount of demonstratable strength while not seeing the tape budge at all. Belive it or not, this is how it's supposed to work. It's a good thing.

Put it this way, you're probably stronger than you can demonstrate, fatigue is just in the way. Once you do some lower volume stuff and let the fatigue leave, you'll be able to demonstrate that strength you have built. It'll then be time to push again and re-start the process.

Cheers,
Jeff

[Joel H]

I already know I won't grow one iota, and I will probably even shrink some. I've accepted this in hopes that I will grow like a newbie once I return to high volume with new strength. I'll measure just so the next time I'll know what to expect, but it will not change my plan. One thing that's weird is my muscles feel really hard. Could be the heavier weights, but typically when I was on lower volume and cutting my muscles felt pretty squishy. Could just be glycogen from higher cals. Whatever it is, I like it.

[Joel H]

Strength training - Legs

Leg Press: 630 x 5 (630 x 2)
Sumo Deadlift: 245 x 4 (225 x 5)
One leg extension 187 x 4 (na)

Comments: Great strong day it felt good finally beating last summers old PR on leg press! Amazing how fast your strength comes up when it is your sole goal. 245 on deadlifts, W00T I'm a monster now!!!! (joking, deads are my worst exercise, lol) I tried sumo deadlifts, and they actually feel pretty solid compared to regular deadlifts, so I'm going to stick with them for the time being. I felt comfy enough to raise the weight a bit after the warm ups, so that was nice. I'll take it slow though, I'm in no hurry to be be pulling 300 pounds or anything. After avoiding deads forever now I'm pretty weak and don't want to ruin my back, so I'll move the weights up slowly here, and build some good form and confidence first.

For such a small workout, I'm kind of wiped out man. Deads and super heavy leg presses had me sweating like a pig in there, unreal. Skipped cardio, as I've heard you shouldn't do cardio on leg day, so that was an excellent excuse to not run, lol.

Already looking kind of flat and I suppose it might get worse Oh well, I'm sticking this routine through for 3-4 weeks, no matter how crappy I might look by then. If Gman is right, it will be well worth it. It's fun to pile on some serious plates on the leg press and watch everyone flip out, lol. Not that 630 is anything special , but 450 is the most I've seen anyone do on that leg press, and those are usually partial reps or something, lol. At my gym those are big dawg weights!

I'm ready for school to start again, too many little punks with girly arms running around like chickens with thier heads cut off clogging up stations, FFS. Thats why I skipped calves. They never grow anyway, lol. Waste of time training them.

[Joel H]

Strength training - week 2 - arms

EZ bar curl: 110 x 5 (110 x 3)
Hammer DB Curl: 45 x 5 (40 x 6)
Cable Curl: 150 x 6 (140 x 5)
Tricep Press: 170 x 6 (165 x 5)
V bar tricep pressdown: 210 x 3 (200 x 5)

10 Cardio on treadmill @ 4.8 mph

Comments: Strength is soaring, at amazing paces. I'm actually getting into this now, and starting to enjoy it. At the old pace, it would take 6 weeks of MN training or maybe even more to gain this much strength. Note I chucked 2 5 pound dumbbells on top of the v bar tricep machine, so that was more than your typical 10 pound increment, thus only 3 reps. If it had been another plate (thus assisted by pulleys) I bet I would have cranked out 5 or more reps.

Elbows feel pretty good. I'm getting so amped up about this now, I'm seeing the plan through, and I just have this crazy feeling that I'm going to grow like nuts once I get back to MN!