Living debt free is the life

[gmenfan40]

If you owe the bank $1 million that’s your problem

If you owe the bank $100 million that’s the bank’s problem

Your slave mindset is 100% your problem

Spoiler!

also money is fake lol

It 100% is, but 1-1000 million is all the same if you fail to pay it. Paying interest and being in debt is modern slavery. Of course you can use it as a tool, but it's still slavery that holds you accountable to keep paying it back. I guess you can get technical and declare bankruptcy, but regardless that in itself is paying a price, which is slavery.

[nutsy54]

Lmao

“The borrower is the slave of the lender”

OP never heard of leverage

Or the GFC

"Leverage" = "I don't understand risk, and hope everything works out exactly as planned"

And wealth-free

lol

Making up lies about other people's wealth doesn't make them true. Debt free, $1.4 million net worth last time I checked, steadily increasing.

[FatLoserNerd]

If you owe the bank $1 million that’s your problem

If you owe the bank $100 million that’s the bank’s problem

Your slave mindset is 100% your problem

Spoiler!

also money is fake lol

Does LARPing as someone who isn’t a moronic insect get tiring for you at all?

[Visel]

Big fan of Dave Ramsey for the ethos of paying off (and staying out of) debt. But that's about as far as it goes.

The main benefits of being debt free include reducing your outgoing expenses, and being ridden of any negative interest leeching away at your net worth.

Unfortunately though, if you don't come from wealth or get some sort of windfall of money, this is a tough time to be a young adult in a 1st world country. After potentially struggling to pay off all debts (car, student, medical, credit cards), and bringing your net worth to likely sub $100k by the end of it, now you're faced with trying to save for a house. This is in a time where even "cheaper" starter homes are selling for $400k+ and interest rates are 7%+. You must either put little down and suffer a hefty mortgage making your outgoing expenses massive.... or save for years while houses continue to get more expensive.

Becoming debt free is always ideal regardless of the economy or times. But it used to mean more. Now, becoming debt free is just the start, and is not even 50% of the battle these days for young adults.

[nutsy54]

Unfortunately though, if you don't come from wealth or get some sort of windfall of money, this is a tough time to be a young adult in a 1st world country. After potentially struggling to pay off all debts (car, student, medical, credit cards), and bringing your net worth to likely sub $100k by the end of it, now you're faced with trying to save for a house. This is in a time where even "cheaper" starter homes are selling for $400k+ and interest rates are 7%+. You must either put little down and suffer a hefty mortgage making your outgoing expenses massive.... or save for years while houses continue to get more expensive.

Not really, don't give into those myths. My condo is worth $300K... so $400K is certainly not the minimum for a starter.

The whole point of paying off debt is so we have money for saving, investing, and enjoying life. I went from buried in debt to now worth $1.4 million by following through on Dave's advice. Certainly didn't come from wealth, nor did I ever have a windfall.

[LargePeter]

"Leverage" = "I don't understand risk, and hope everything works out exactly as planned"


Making up lies about other people's wealth doesn't make them true. Debt free, $1.4 million net worth last time I checked, steadily increasing.

lmao

[Hutrapper]

My properties are paid off, my vehicle is paid off, and my boats, ATV, snowmobiles and other toys were always paid off.

Never go in debt crew.

[Destor]

"Leverage" = "I don't understand risk, and hope everything works out exactly as planned"


Making up lies about other people's wealth doesn't make them true. Debt free, $1.4 million net worth last time I checked, steadily increasing.

Were you given a house that is now worth $1.4million?

Or did you do it without debt along the way? What’s the breakdown, how did it happen, etc.

If done without debt, your net worth could likely be significantly higher if you used debt wisely through the journey.

[guest89]

Were you given a house that is now worth $1.4million?

Or did you do it without debt along the way? What’s the breakdown, how did it happen, etc.

If done without debt, your net worth could likely be significantly higher if you used debt wisely through the journey.

His house ain't 1.4. He said he paid like 300K for it. The 1.4 is probably is savings/investment/retirement fund.



There is a lot of give and take with utilizing debt/leverage to build wealth. You can build a much higher let worth over the long run if you use debt. But at the same time its far riskier/more stressful. Literally all of the wealthy people I know stay debt free.

They save money. Then they buy small businesses/real estate cash with that money. They save that additional cash flow. Then rinse and repeat. Until they own enough small businesses/real estate to pay them hundreds of thousands a month. Yes. Technically they could acquire more sooner by utilizing debt. But none of the ones I know utilized that strategy.

[guest89]

Big fan of Dave Ramsey for the ethos of paying off (and staying out of) debt. But that's about as far as it goes.

The main benefits of being debt free include reducing your outgoing expenses, and being ridden of any negative interest leeching away at your net worth.

Unfortunately though, if you don't come from wealth or get some sort of windfall of money, this is a tough time to be a young adult in a 1st world country. After potentially struggling to pay off all debts (car, student, medical, credit cards), and bringing your net worth to likely sub $100k by the end of it, now you're faced with trying to save for a house. This is in a time where even "cheaper" starter homes are selling for $400k+ and interest rates are 7%+. You must either put little down and suffer a hefty mortgage making your outgoing expenses massive.... or save for years while houses continue to get more expensive.

Becoming debt free is always ideal regardless of the economy or times. But it used to mean more. Now, becoming debt free is just the start, and is not even 50% of the battle these days for young adults.

The problem is young adults are going into debt to get a car, student loans, credit cards, etc. For some strange reason people think just because they qualify to take out loans and get credit cards. That's what they should do. Its stupid as ****.


You earn money. You save a portion of said money. You invest a portion of said money. And you spend the rest of said money. If you need to earn more money. You get a second job or work more hours. You scale your income over time. And as you scale your income, you also scale the amount of money you save and invest. And over time the amount you spend on luxury purchases. What you don't do is buy **** you can't afford, with money you don't have.




Staying debt free, building wealth, becoming a millionaire, buying a home, etc. All are extremely easy to accomplish. Even in 2024. Anyone who disagrees definitely needs a dose of Dave Ramsey. Because everyone that follows his financial plan over the long term would agree with me. Especially those that start at 18-19.

[Destor]

His house ain't 1.4. He said he paid like 300K for it. The 1.4 is probably is savings/investment/retirement fund.



There is a lot of give and take with utilizing debt/leverage to build wealth. You can build a much higher let worth over the long run if you use debt. But at the same time its far riskier/more stressful. Literally all of the wealthy people I know stay debt free.

They save money. Then they buy small businesses/real estate cash with that money. They save that additional cash flow. Then rinse and repeat. Until they own enough small businesses/real estate to pay them hundreds of thousands a month. Yes. Technically they could acquire more sooner by utilizing debt. But none of the ones I know utilized that strategy.

How do you get started saving up enough money to buy a house without debt? Outside of being a very high earner, and even then it would be a loooong period of saving before you’d have enough to see a benefit and any contribution to a high income would be very minimal at the front end.

I’m renting out a $500k house right now for $2500/month, you’d need 40 of those or $20million in real estate to produce $100k per month lol

[nutsy54]

Were you given a house that is now worth $1.4million?

Or did you do it without debt along the way? What’s the breakdown, how did it happen, etc.

If done without debt, your net worth could likely be significantly higher if you used debt wisely through the journey.

I wasn't given anything along the way. Used to live buried in debt - I could "afford" something if there was available balance on a credit card. Bought cars with loans, etc.

I started following Dave Ramsey's advice before I knew it was his advice, then things really improved when I fully followed his advice. Eliminated debt, cut up the credit cards, etc. Bought the condo with a significant down payment, paid it off in 4 1/2 years (which saved me $104K on interest), that was 6 years ago.

Not sure how my net worth would be significantly higher by saddling myself with more debt. That's a payment that grabs at the paycheck every month. Instead, I can pour money into investing (along with the Vacation Fund) every month.

Condo is worth $300K. Retirement investments $890K. Non-retirement investments $175K.

*My first home, pre-Dave, was stupid expensive, far more than I needed or could really afford. I sold it (military transfer) moved, rented while wrapping up debt, then came back to the same area and bought what I actually needed and could afford. The old place is $430K, compared to $300K where I live now (just around the corner, same zip code).

[eddiehaskell]

How do you get started saving up enough money to buy a house without debt? Outside of being a very high earner, and even then it would be a loooong period of saving before you’d have enough to see a benefit and any contribution to a high income would be very minimal at the front end.

I’m renting out a $500k house right now for $2500/month, you’d need 40 of those or $20million in real estate to produce $100k per month lol

live well below your means, save/invest and buy a home/location suitable for the amount you have. if you get married, live in that house with two incomes and save even more until you can sell the first house and buy the next without a mortgage. in my area near charlotte you can buy a 2/1 house for about $200-250k. a 3/2 house for about $275-300k.

[guest89]

How do you get started saving up enough money to buy a house without debt? Outside of being a very high earner, and even then it would be a loooong period of saving before you’d have enough to see a benefit and any contribution to a high income would be very minimal at the front end.

I’m renting out a $500k house right now for $2500/month, you’d need 40 of those or $20million in real estate to produce $100k per month lol

The Dave Ramsey strategy is your home is the only thing you go into debt for. And you pay it off ASAP. Preferably in 15 years. I know his financial strategies seem boomerish and out-dated. But they still work. I know because I know people that follow his financial plan.


The only thing I haven't done that's with his plan is I use credit cards to pay for everything and I pay them off at the end of every-month. I accept the fact that its not as efficient as cash. But I'm so comfortable it doesn't matter for me.




I've been following Dave Ramseys strategy for awhile now. I'm 37. My house costs less then 10% of my monthly income. All of my living expenses combined are less then 20% of my monthly income. Bought my house on a single income. Run it on a single income. If I want a stay at home wife and to have kids its perfectly affordable on my single income. I'll be retiring in my mid to late 40s. And I'll spend my days riding motorcycles/dirt-bikes, on boats, hunting and fishing.


I'm financially free. And never had anything given to me. And no help along the way. No room mates. No inheritances. Etc. Its doable. And it really helps if you get started at 18 and never start drowning in debt.

[XPmpnII]

OP based

i already have a paid off house, only debt is car loan but ya know, gotta yolo a lil bit too cuz life is short so i’m whippin a scatty

But the plan is to hopefully pay it off in 3 years and be debt free by 40

[Godfrd824]

OP, if your daughter told you of a class trip to Europe her class will be doing, but it costs $4k, would she be able to go?

[Destor]

I wasn't given anything along the way. Used to live buried in debt - I could "afford" something if there was available balance on a credit card. Bought cars with loans, etc.

I started following Dave Ramsey's advice before I knew it was his advice, then things really improved when I fully followed his advice. Eliminated debt, cut up the credit cards, etc. Bought the condo with a significant down payment, paid it off in 4 1/2 years (which saved me $104K on interest), that was 6 years ago.

Not sure how my net worth would be significantly higher by saddling myself with more debt. That's a payment that grabs at the paycheck every month. Instead, I can pour money into investing (along with the Vacation Fund) every month.

Condo is worth $300K. Retirement investments $890K. Non-retirement investments $175K.

*My first home, pre-Dave, was stupid expensive, far more than I needed or could really afford. I sold it (military transfer) moved, rented while wrapping up debt, then came back to the same area and bought what I actually needed and could afford. The old place is $430K, compared to $300K where I live now (just around the corner, same zip code).

Your net worth could be much higher because if you took a mortgage, at what was probably quite a low interest rate, you could have put money into investments at that time and benefitted from growth in the value of those while carrying the mortgage debt.

Even if you just put $300k into the S&P 500 in May 2018, not adding anything for the four years prior, that would be worth $578k today.

$300k in the S&P eight years ago would be worth $758k today, invested ten years ago it would have been worth $800k.


What if you sit waiting to save up enough cash to buy a house outright and the real estate market explodes in that time? You could have taken a mortgage, bought the house then, and benefitted from the market exploding — you don’t get that if you wait and buy cash.

Interest costs on *good* debt shouldn’t really be a concern

[Anachron]

If you owe the bank $1 million that’s your problem

If you owe the bank $100 million that’s the bank’s problem

Your slave mindset is 100% your problem

Spoiler!

also money is fake lol

Don't even bother with these guys...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[gmenfan40]

Don't even bother with these guys...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

"Leveraging" debt is great, but it's slavery and added stress to your life. The simplicity of being debt free and adding wealth without owing a dime is way better than the American greed mindset that you think is superior.

[Anachron]

"Leveraging" debt is great, but it's slavery and added stress to your life. The simplicity of being debt free and adding wealth without owing a dime is way better than the American greed mindset that you think is superior.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[nutsy54]

Your net worth could be much higher because if you took a mortgage, at what was probably quite a low interest rate, you could have put money into investments at that time and benefitted from growth in the value of those while carrying the mortgage debt.

The problem is nobody can guarantee investment returns in the short term. You can guarantee the mortgage payment is due every month.

Even if you just put $300k into the S&P 500 in May 2018, not adding anything for the four years prior, that would be worth $578k today.

$300k in the S&P eight years ago would be worth $758k today, invested ten years ago it would have been worth $800k.

Where in the world would I have gotten $300K in cash 8-10 years ago?
Today, debt-free with no mortgage, I pour $6,000 into investing each month...

What if you sit waiting to save up enough cash to buy a house outright and the real estate market explodes in that time?

Nobody suggested doing that...

By the way, what's your net worth following your plan?

[Abzu]

live well below your means, save/invest and buy a home/location suitable for the amount you have. if you get married, live in that house with two incomes and save even more until you can sell the first house and buy the next without a mortgage. in my area near charlotte you can buy a 2/1 house for about $200-250k. a 3/2 house for about $275-300k.

Easiest way to get rich in America, if you are smart, is to get a job, save money, trade options under a roth, keep your job, lose money for a while, keep working, become profitable, keep working, start hitting homeruns, keep working, start building an income portfolio, keep working, start making enough money in the income portfolio to pay all your bills, keep working, start generating enough money to buy anything you want then quit your job after your roth comes to maturity and start contemplating the existential lol.

[Godfrd824]

Not sure how my net worth would be significantly higher by saddling myself with more debt.

I'll give you an example. I have mortgages, I have tenants paying said mortgages. That's how.

[Abzu]

The problem is nobody can guarantee investment returns in the short term.

Lol that is not true.

You can guarantee the mortgage payment is due every month.

Anyone can garauntee their mortgage every month if they are smart.

First way is you work and pay your mortgage.

Second way is rent rooms to cover.



If you want to get creative then you can stay with a relative and rent the whole house or you can convert a section of your house to an additional living area and rent that.



There are also a lot of government programs to help you federally and even better ones on the state level depending on where you live.

I don't have a regular job so I use dividend payers to fund my lifestyle and ensure that it doesn't change lol I boost my returns by buying long calls in growth stocks.

I like to borrow against my accounts when I want to make big purchases so I need to have the stability to avoid a margin call, I can't borrow against FB and have it go to $80 lol, I might find it difficult to cover.

Instead of buying stock on say google, I buy 2 year calls and collect more money than holding 100 shares, I take the money that I saved buying calls as opposed to stock and put it into a stock that pays a dividend above 5% then I sell calls on it. Google has been running in 2-3 year cycles anyway. Google hit a low at the end 2008 and hit the high by the end of 2009(30% down after high) then didn't go higher until 2012, it hit the next high in early 2014(20% down after that high) and didn't break it until late 2015, it hit the next high in 2018(25% down) didn;t go higher until 2020(35% down).

[Destor]

The problem is nobody can guarantee investment returns in the short term. You can guarantee the mortgage payment is due every month.


Where in the world would I have gotten $300K in cash 8-10 years ago?
Today, debt-free with no mortgage, I pour $6,000 into investing each month...


Nobody suggested doing that...

By the way, what's your net worth following your plan?

How did you pay off the condo? I interpreted your post as saying you put $300k of cash into it over a period of 4.5 years ending 6 years ago, so just threw together the S&P numbers for some rough napkin math comparisons.

Not sure what my total net worth is because it’s not something I focus on, but the big easy numbers I have are $330k in stocks right now and somewhere around $1.5m of real estate (two houses). The mortgages on my houses are a bit under $1.15m.

However, I also had a late start and just got out of college a decade ago. In 2014 I had zero or negative net worth and was renting a basement suite.

[eddiehaskell]

OP, if your daughter told you of a class trip to Europe her class will be doing, but it costs $4k, would she be able to go?

of course. but shes go so many places already that i wouldn't see it as big deal if she didn't go. i'd probably see it as a waste of money. my school went to nyc as seniors but it wasn't anything special.

[Anachron]

How did you pay off the condo? I interpreted your post as saying you put $300k of cash into it over a period of 4.5 years ending 6 years ago, so just threw together the S&P numbers for some rough napkin math comparisons.

Not sure what my total net worth is because it’s not something I focus on, but the big easy numbers I have are $330k in stocks right now and somewhere around $1.5m of real estate (two houses). The mortgages on my houses are a bit under $1.15m.

However, I also had a late start and just got out of college a decade ago. In 2014 I had zero or negative net worth and was renting a basement suite.

Please tell me you already converted to US dollars...

[BigDeeps01]

In on another jew thread

[eddiehaskell]

"Leveraging" debt is great, but it's slavery and added stress to your life. The simplicity of being debt free and adding wealth without owing a dime is way better than the American greed mindset that you think is superior.

which do you think benefits the chew more.....a nation of 350 million where debt is seen as good/ok or one where there's a wholesale shunning of debt/consumerism?

[Destor]

Please tell me you already converted to US dollars...

We could talk purchasing power parity if you want, but comparing with spot exchange rate doesn’t make a lot of sense.

But then we’d need to talk real estate cost vs value and yadda yadda