At least 16 dead in Florida school shooting

[Flounderbout]

Much truth there Karl.

It's much easier to blame the tools used than to examine the break down in society that has occurred over the last several decades. I do blame the media though to a large degree and the endless coverage of the attackers, I also blame the violent video games, violent and angry music, along with the general disregard for morality in general.

This is why we don't have mass shootings in the UK - because our media isn't allowed to report in sensationalist fashion and violent music and video games are banned.

[Brackneyc]

Does anybody get the feeling that thoughts and prayers only seem to be making things worse?

No.

[mtpockets]

Does anybody get the feeling that thoughts and prayers only seem to be making things worse?

People Sick Of 'Thoughts And Prayers' Demand Action After Florida School Shooting


http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/f...b0058d5565da26

[thomashenry]

Does anybody get the feeling that thoughts and prayers only seem to be making things worse?

How So ? elaborate

Speaking from my Own personal Experience and only mine, the wisdom and the comfort of the ages helps me, when no human can or is capable, what with ? I don`t know what to say, I am so Sorry Etc Etc, to a degree heartfelt and appreciated, doesn't assuage the Hollow emptiness however, when your World changes in an instant at least from my perspective, No Human can answer the questions/feelings that are front and center, and pound your brain so hard it hurts and the empty feeling you have, the absolute devastating Heartache, when it`s quiet and your alone with your thoughts, My Rest, ease and comfort come from nothing Human, We all have our own different thoughts, I get that, I am not advocating for a fight or argument and didn`t indicate I was itching for one either, I can only say what works for me in those moments

I am just using this to illustrate ................... Remember this post from me, I could use some Prayers {Daughter Died} last nite

I could use some Prayers {Daughter Died} last nite



I don`t know what to say ! I know were inanimate or anonymous to a large extent, we share and talk etc, my 24 yr old daughter died last nite, and within the last 15 hrs again the stark reality of whats important and whats not has once again cropped it`s head, I had to go to downtown Detroit to "Henry Ford Hospital" and Identify her, I know she is at rest and in a place {home, heaven} where I will see her again, no sorrow no tears I miss her tremendously, and my heart hurts so much, I feel so awful, and on the other hand I know that God is in complete control, I believe it when he says that "in this world you will have trouble, However know that I have overcome the World".

{John 14:6.}

I just would like if "people" can find it their hearts to say a prayer for my wife, she is disabled and having a very rough go of it, & for one brief moment stop & take hold of what really is important in life and be grateful if you have family and health and a Lord, that we can have a relationship with, who is real and who is there for us no matter what just be, open to his ever present voice


Prayers Work & have Worked for Me, Prayers, making things worse, what a bunch of crap ! When actual Evil show`s up, you better believe I am praying

[JediRN]

How So ? elaborate

It is more a statement of exasperation.

Prayers Work & have Worked for Me, Prayers, making things worse, what a bunch of crap !

I thought about editing the original post to change if from "making it worse" to "not helping" but didn't get a chance to get back to it. Clearly "prayers and thoughts" are not effectively solving any problems.

My views are well known and I really don't care to derail the thread any further. I'm willing too if anyone cares... but fortunately, and to my liking, no one does.

respect.

[wesleysh21]

This is a random thought that I have had about these mass shootings for a long time. I wonder how many of these we would actually see if it wasn't for the instant fame these nutjobs attain when they commit these acts. Soon, the entire country will know who this guy is and his picture will be everywhere. We will know his entire biography and all sorts of details about his life and childhood. I imagine that can be quite appealing to some unstable nut who has nothing going for him in life. Instead of feeling like an anonymous angry loser, he can dominate the news cycle and become a household name.

I'm not sure if this is valid, but I wonder what would happen if the media stopped identifying these wackos....or maybe, didn't obsessively cover this every time it happened. Don't get me wrong, I am not blaming the media....I blame the shooter -- but I just can't help thinking that the instant fame is an attractive lure to somebody like this.

I have felt this way ever since the Virginia Tech shooting. I say treat them like streakers at sporting events. They don't put those people on TV anymore and purposely turn away.

[thomashenry]

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...ds-killer-dies

Football coach who shielded kids dies

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends

[sy2502]

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...ds-killer-dies

Football coach who shielded kids dies

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends

Yes, this guy was a hero, no doubt about it. But I can't help ask myself if that same guy had a gun, would he have saved the same students without having to die? I guess we'll never know.

[Mark1T]

Yes, this guy was a hero, no doubt about it. But I can't help ask myself if that same guy had a gun, would he have saved the same students without having to die? I guess we'll never know.

Good point, sy. I think arming certain faculty members would be at least part of some type of protection program.

[bustasinclair]

Yes, this guy was a hero, no doubt about it. But I can't help ask myself if that same guy had a gun, would he have saved the same students without having to die? I guess we'll never know.

It's an interesting concept. I just wonder if that would be enough? I'm interested to see how it could play out under this particular scenario where the kid was basically shooting fish in a barrel. How many were already dead before anyone even knew what was going on to even alert one of the faculty who is packing heat? I'm sure it could be figured out if this is indeed the direction we decide to go.

Right now, I'm thinking I'd like to be one of those designated faculty members. I cannot even look at the mug shot of this kid without feeling rage bubbling up inside me.

[sy2502]

It's an interesting concept. I just wonder if that would be enough? I'm interested to see how it could play out under this particular scenario where the kid was basically shooting fish in a barrel. How many were already dead before anyone even knew what was going on to even alert one of the faculty who is packing heat? I'm sure it could be figured out if this is indeed the direction we decide to go.

Right now, I'm thinking I'd like to be one of those designated faculty members. I cannot even look at the mug shot of this kid without feeling rage bubbling up inside me.

As I said, I have no idea, but the guy was willing to put his life on the line for the students, so it's not entirely out of the question in my mind that if he could have fought the attacker, he would have. Bottom line is that I am really sad this guy died, he was clearly an extraordinary person, and I wish he didn't have to.

[Karl_Hungus]

It's an interesting concept. I just wonder if that would be enough? I'm interested to see how it could play out under this particular scenario where the kid was basically shooting fish in a barrel. How many were already dead before anyone even knew what was going on to even alert one of the faculty who is packing heat? I'm sure it could be figured out if this is indeed the direction we decide to go..

I think this is one of the problems. School shooters KNOW they are shooting fish in a barrel. If there were an armed faculty member or police officer on campus, I suspect that would act as a deterrent. Schools wouldn't seem like easy targets anymore.

[KeepItMoving]

Does anybody get the feeling that thoughts and prayers only seem to be making things worse?

No. Even with an 'alone in the universe' point of view, I can't see how thoughts and prayers aren't valuable to keep the victims and families in the consciousness of the community. Also, for people who may not be in a position to do much in the way of affirmatively acting, Praying can help ease their minds AS IF they are helping. Thinking about the tragedy can lead to ideas about how to take affirmative steps. I get the whole anti-God/anti-prayer thing, I have a doctorate and was taught by some of the most 'educated' atheists ever, but I can't help believing it comes from their own bitterness and isolated frustrations. If nothing else, praying hurts as much as chicken soup

[Plateauplower]

I think this is one of the problems. School shooters KNOW they are shooting fish in a barrel. If there were an armed faculty member or police officer on campus, I suspect that would act as a deterrent. Schools wouldn't seem like easy targets anymore.

I have attended various programs by various law enforcement agencies through work since I am on our planning / response team. The "experts" on this subject matter feel the same way, sensationalism in the media is a major problem for these cowards who want notoriety, they almost ALWAYS choose targets in "gun free zones". Obviously the answer is not to hand every kid coming into school a firearm and wish them luck, but having some trained and proficient armed personnel in these "soft targets" would not only serve as a deterrent in some cases, but would allow for a more rapid response. IMO the problem is choosing the right people who can operate effectively under such a high stress situations and not ended up making it a crossfire situation if they were forced to take action....

[Dave76]

Yes, this guy was a hero, no doubt about it. But I can't help ask myself if that same guy had a gun, would he have saved the same students without having to die? I guess we'll never know.

Agreed. I can't count the number of times that I've heard the argument that "no mass murder has ever been stopped by an armed citizen". Well, how do you know that? If the teacher had been armed, a mass murder may have never occurred. Who knows how many mass murders have been stopped by armed citizens? There's no way to measure that.

A gun free zone means nothing to a mass killer except that he won't have to worry about his own safety during his rampage.

[Brackneyc]

People Sick Of 'Thoughts And Prayers' Demand Action After Florida School Shooting


http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/f...b0058d5565da26

Everyone will probably just turn in their guns if asked nicely.

[wesleysh21]

Agreed. I can't count the number of times that I've heard the argument that "no mass murder has ever been stopped by an armed citizen". Well, how do you know that? If the teacher had been armed, a mass murder may have never occurred. Who knows how many mass murders have been stopped by armed citizens? There's no way to measure that.

A gun free zone means nothing to a mass killer except that he won't have to worry about his own safety during his rampage.

There are actually places on the interwebz where they record mass shootings and document those that have been stopped by armed citizens. So whomever says there are no mass murders stopped by armed citizens is simply wrong. Not just misguided...but wrong.

[latebloomingmom]

easier access to guns? I don't know
kids up here in the country have always had guns in home for hunting
and were taught to keep their hands off em
unless Dad or Grandpa was taking them out hunting
problems with how we raise kids now a days? maybe
coddling and the unrealistic expectations that everything should go their way all the damn time
creates this inability to cope with life in general
the media coverage of it that glorifies the violence?
you bet your a$$ that is part of it
go out in a blaze of glory
and have somebody post it on YOUTUBE and make money off it
copy cat crimes...some of these kids are doing research on places like Columbine
so they can figure out how to do it
I have heard ...some are part of online groups that egg each other on to do this kind of crime


course I am a redneck but I say arm all the damn staff
and slap a big ole NRA sticker on the front door of the school

[thomashenry]

No. Even with an 'alone in the universe' point of view, I can't see how thoughts and prayers aren't valuable to keep the victims and families in the consciousness of the community. Also, for people who may not be in a position to do much in the way of affirmatively acting, Praying can help ease their minds AS IF they are helping. Thinking about the tragedy can lead to ideas about how to take affirmative steps. I get the whole anti-God/anti-prayer thing, I have a doctorate and was taught by some of the most 'educated' atheists ever, but I can't help believing it comes from their own bitterness and isolated frustrations. If nothing else, praying hurts as much as chicken soup

A Great many turn to politics in order to explain evil because it makes them feel safer. They think they can put evil in a nice little box; maybe if we can contain it, or pass some legislation, some believe they can dream up easy solutions to authentic "evil", maybe if they can boil it down to a political party or a policy or a law or anything, then we don't have to face the most terrifying reality: that evil is everywhere. All around us. Not just around us but, worst of all, within us!



For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

[bustasinclair]

A Great many turn to politics in order to explain evil because it makes them feel safer. They think they can put evil in a nice little box; maybe if we can contain it, or pass some legislation, some believe they can dream up easy solutions to authentic "evil", maybe if they can boil it down to a political party or a policy or a law or anything, then we don't have to face the most terrifying reality: that evil is everywhere. All around us. Not just around us but, worst of all, within us!



For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Meh.....some turn to politics, some turn to religion. Neither one is doing any good as far as I can tell.

[thomashenry]

Meh.....some turn to politics, some turn to religion. Neither one is doing any good as far as I can tell.

One Relies on man`s opinion, ever changing, the other doesn`t.......meh :]

[mtpockets]

I owned rifles and shotguns before I was a teen, had access to many more as they were stored on the wall. They were tools for hunting. I hunted rabbits, duck and partridge at a young age and shot my first moose at 12. With this said, I never once thought about shooting up a school. I got in a lot of fights, skinned many knuckles and blackened a lot of eye's, that's as far as it went.

After school we went fishing, hunting, played ball, hockey or other sports. We didn't sit in front of a video game playing something like COD that glorified killing and made it look so easy.

I'm real glad I grew up at a time when life was simpler and exciting.

[Dave76]

I'm real glad I grew up at a time when life was simpler and exciting.

My son graduated from a semi rural school in 2001. During his time at school, it was common for some of the boys to go dove hunting before school started. When school was out, they went out for an afternoon dove hunt. During the school day, their guns were either in the truck gun rack or in the trunk of their car. The morning harvest was in a cooler. It wasn't unusual to see the Principal admiring the student's shot gun. No one thought anything about it. It was normal.

Yes, times have changed.

[mtpockets]

My son graduated from a semi rural school in 2001. During his time at school, it was common for some of the boys to go dove hunting before school started. When school was out, they went out for an afternoon dove hunt. During the school day, their guns were either in the truck gun rack or in the trunk of their car. The morning harvest was in a cooler. It wasn't unusual to see the Principal admiring the student's shot gun. No one thought anything about it. It was normal.

Yes, times have changed.

Yup Dave, I can relate to your story and it's testimony as to how things have changed.

[TnTNZ]

Interesting that this comes from Australia. Is it the same thing there? I always thought this was mainly an American thing. I grew up in Europe, and it was not like this at all.

American culture is more and more pervasive here. However we’re certainly not as prudish about sexuality.

However violence is still glorified, but we don’t have have regular mass shootings in Australia. There’s a simple reason for that.

[jakob10102]

It's the 18th school shooting this year? The 8th resulting in death. And it's ... mid February. One fatal school shooting a week.

I just can't even.

This shooting is a tragedy, no doubt. But these numbers are completely inflated with no context at all.... people spreading misinformation on things like this is rampant and important of note because it leads policy discussion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...3fe_story.html

[Old-Time-Lifter]

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...ngs-people-can

[bustasinclair]

my point was even if they'd have had the resources to investigate what was he guilty of ?

there's no laws against going to weird websites or owning an AR-15 with a boat load of ammo for non felons..

what infuriates me is the over exposure we're going to get for the next 48 hrs on all of this by the networks because they're all trying to keep up with each other..

we're gonna see all kinds of different angles of what went on today from cell phone camera's, and they're gonna inadvertently make this guy a hero for the next idiot who''s pissed off at the world..

for me there's no human interest story's in what the networks do after these shootings..

there's just an element of sleaziness after 7 or 8 hours !

Not sure why this story isn't getting more traction, but Florida guy likely had something written down (I'm not using this POS's name). If this Florida guy had some kind of journal, he could have been arrested like this guy.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/school-...tt-washington/

[Corbi]

And the pile of $hit shooter confessed to the crime, but i'm sure we will still be subjected to a long drawn out trial for no reason. I say he confessed so lets toss him into a room with the parents of the dead kids and lets see what happens?

[poundXpound]

I have attended various programs by various law enforcement agencies through work since I am on our planning / response team. The "experts" on this subject matter feel the same way, sensationalism in the media is a major problem for these cowards who want notoriety, they almost ALWAYS choose targets in "gun free zones". Obviously the answer is not to hand every kid coming into school a firearm and wish them luck, but having some trained and proficient armed personnel in these "soft targets" would not only serve as a deterrent in some cases, but would allow for a more rapid response. IMO the problem is choosing the right people who can operate effectively under such a high stress situations and not ended up making it a crossfire situation if they were forced to take action....