"The Great Bodybuilding Debate" - Ian McCarthy and Dave Pulcinella

[lukamura]

Well, if you have spoken to some scientists you'd also have an impression of them being very annoying because of their presence - simple as that. Still, his channel is way more informative than 99.9% of fitness channels out there. I respect Ian for being one true mind not afraid of speaking directly without needless bull****.

[Jeddore]

kind of related, Ian's father works in that facility that was attacked by terrorists in Algeria

http://www.***.co.uk/news/world-africa-21042659

edit: b b c obviously

[MAX.MAREK]

cliffs:
ian pretty much gets owned by someone more qualified and experienced.
regurgitates layne's knowledge and can't back it up because he has no solid education in science.
45:00 ian gets rawdogged.

exactly. iifym loses. broscience wins. thank you.

[MAX.MAREK]

that Ian has some rush on his face from dikcs

lmao! shiiiiiiiiiiit lol

[lancs_hotpot]

Why does he give a ****? Well he doesnt he only pretends to do what he does for humanity. Anyway, i dont get this eating six times a day ruins lives if you arent gonna be pro. I eat 6 times a day no problem, i have to to keep my size. He talks ****.

[DanielEver]

Why does he give a ****? Well he doesnt he only pretends to do what he does for humanity. Anyway, i dont get this eating six times a day ruins lives if you arent gonna be pro. I eat 6 times a day no problem, i have to to keep my size. He talks ****.

because he chooses to excell at popular basics of science in order to ensure his social dominance and pursue a higher hierarchical role in a community he revolves around.

[flangmasterj]

that Ian has some rush on his face from dikcs

A what?

[tsiparlanaeht]

Fuk Ian/Browny boy. Enough said.

[spamy]

Comparing different diets is like comparing different methods of training: they all work to some degree if you respect the basic rules. And from the basics one guru or another will develop his own theory "better than the others", many times for financial purposes.

[ikillsuckers]

yeah I'm sure he's really upset about people from a forum. He's right about not wasting your time if you don't have the genetics.

wtf? lmao how is it wasting time if its something you enjoy doing? is playing any type of recreational sport a waste of time if you enjoy doing it even if youll never be pro? is learning to cook a waste of time even if you never become a chef?

thats possibly the most piss poor, pathetic logic ive heard in a long time.

just wow.

Fuk Ian/Browny boy. Enough said.

for real

[TTimmerman]

wtf? lmao how is it wasting time if its something you enjoy doing? is playing any type of recreational sport a waste of time if you enjoy doing it even if youll never be pro? is learning to cook a waste of time even if you never become a chef?

thats possibly the most piss poor, pathetic logic ive heard in a long time.

just wow.

i've seen a lot of people getting into financial/social problems cause they kept trying to go for bodybuilding... if you're already at a very low level and you have to make sacrifices like that you should face the facts and take it down a notch.

[ikillsuckers]

i've seen a lot of people getting into financial/social problems cause they kept trying to go for bodybuilding... if you're already at a very low level and you have to make sacrifices like that you should face the facts and take it down a notch.

Sure, if the person doesnt have the common sense to make a decision on weather or not their hobby/passion is hurting them more than helping..then that would not be the actual hobby or passion itself but the person whos pursuing it.
?

[Lvisaa2]

Sure, if the person doesnt have the common sense to make a decision on weather or not their hobby/passion is hurting them more than helping..then that would not be the actual hobby or passion itself but the person whos pursuing it.
?

Eh bodybuilding has inherently more consequences than some other hobbies. For example, if your hobby is reading then the possible risks are considerably less. Is bodybuilding inherently bad? No, but it does come with financial, physical, social, and mental burdens

[justinnnnn]

Why does everyone hate this Ian guy?

They both make good and bad points.

[Zachary533]

Why does everyone hate this Ian guy?

They both make good and bad points.

Indeed, what really made me cringe though is that Ian is usually in people's face about everything, but when it was turned around on him as to why he was on this crusade again people 'wasting' their life bodybuilding


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"Gives me something to do."

[ikillsuckers]

Indeed, what really made me cringe though is that Ian is usually in people's face about everything, but when it was turned around on him as to why he was on this crusade again people 'wasting' their life bodybuilding


...


...


"Gives me something to do."

Exactly...it was a very lame response which is what led me to believe that he has negative intensions..

[ikillsuckers]

Eh bodybuilding has inherently more consequences than some other hobbies. For example, if your hobby is reading then the possible risks are considerably less. Is bodybuilding inherently bad? No, but it does come with financial, physical, social, and mental burdens

Whenever i do something i give it my all, sure you have an argument but the argument can be true about any hobby.

How would anyone know what they can acheive if they didnt give something they were pursuing 100%?

Very negative and lame outlook on it

Btw if ur starting to bodybuild and are unaware of what chemicals do what and weather or not you should run something instead of paying.bills and what excersises affect what in the long run...then again, this is a common sense issue and not bodybuilding its self

[PillClinton]

Whenever i do something i give it my all, sure you have an argument but the argument can be true about any hobby.

How would anyone know what they can acheive if they didnt give something they were pursuing 100%?

Very negative and lame outlook on it

Btw if ur starting to bodybuild and are unaware of what chemicals do what and weather or not you should run something instead of paying.bills and what excersises affect what in the long run...then again, this is a common sense issue and not bodybuilding its self

Hmmm, not sure Lvissa was specifically stating anything about chemicals. I may be wrong that he was implying it, but I won't speak for him.

What I will speak on, however, is that bodybuilding can engross someone's life very easily, especially to people first getting into it. They are bombarded with "you need 100% dedication, you need to eat THIS and THAT way, you must be determined and never miss a workout!" So you will see plenty of teenagers on here (and adults), who showcase what they do, every day, to a Tee, and if they do in fact monitor themselves like that, every day, its a bit of a unnecessary burden, not just on them but on the people around them.

They can't go anywhere without their food
They have to eat specific foods
They must go to the gym at THIS time
They refuse to be taken apart from their food/gym schedule
Etc.

It can really be a burden. All this is fine, if you are making it to the top... But I am pretty sure most people, if they got it, can become pro without needing to be so stubborn about such minute details. Once you are competitive, then worry about it. Until then, just relax. Eat your food, workout regularly, and enjoy your life.

[Zachary533]

wtf? lmao how is it wasting time if its something you enjoy doing? is playing any type of recreational sport a waste of time if you enjoy doing it even if youll never be pro? is learning to cook a waste of time even if you never become a chef?

thats possibly the most piss poor, pathetic logic ive heard in a long time.

just wow.



for real

I agree, lets apply this thought process to a different sport, that usually has to have genetic input to get top tier.


Lets not play rugby ever as we don't have the genetics to be massive in the legs, have a solid blocky core, naturally skilled/good centre of gravity- and have no fear of taking someone down. Lets forget about how much we enjoy playing the game, how many friendships are made over the sport, and the opportunity those who do pursuit it get to boost their self confidence/physique.

^Ian logic


Sounds legit.

Once you are competitive, then worry about it. Until then, just relax. Eat your food, workout regularly, and enjoy your life.

Too right- perseverance is key in this lifestyle that's for sure

[ikillsuckers]

Hmmm, not sure Lvissa was specifically stating anything about chemicals. I may be wrong that he was implying it, but I won't speak for him.

What I will speak on, however, is that bodybuilding can engross someone's life very easily, especially to people first getting into it. They are bombarded with "you need 100% dedication, you need to eat THIS and THAT way, you must be determined and never miss a workout!" So you will see plenty of teenagers on here (and adults), who showcase what they do, every day, to a Tee, and if they do in fact monitor themselves like that, every day, its a bit of a unnecessary burden, not just on them but on the people around them.

They can't go anywhere without their food
They have to eat specific foods
They must go to the gym at THIS time
They refuse to be taken apart from their food/gym schedule
Etc.

It can really be a burden. All this is fine, if you are making it to the top... But I am pretty sure most people, if they got it, can become pro without needing to be so stubborn about such minute details. Once you are competitive, then worry about it. Until then, just relax. Eat your food, workout regularly, and enjoy your life.

Whos to say it can really be a burden? That is an opinion my friend and btw if you want to be great at something then there is no harm in paying attention to minute detail, if ian was big and lean and actually had genetics to look like a body builder, hed be playing a different tune on his flute, but since he doesnt appear to be someone who stands out and is hating on people who want to dedicate them selves by working hard at something, its pretty obvious hes just upset and unhappy with his own results.


And stop using the its easy for.body building to take over ur life bs...

At the end of the day if you cant control your own actions and what is healthy and.unhealthy for.you, the problem lies deeper within urself then just the hobby your pursuing weather its bbing or reading as someone else previously exampled.

[zmcdole]

wtf? lmao how is it wasting time if its something you enjoy doing? is playing any type of recreational sport a waste of time if you enjoy doing it even if youll never be pro? is learning to cook a waste of time even if you never become a chef?

thats possibly the most piss poor, pathetic logic ive heard in a long time.

just wow.



for real

My point was you shouldn't chase the dream of becoming an IFBB pro if you don't have what it takes to make it. I never said anything about doing recreational stuff that makes you happy. Hell I do that with powerlifting. I'm not sinking my life savings into it, selling my cars, or doing g4p in the hopes that I'll be the strongest ever though.

I just don't see the point in loading yourself up with a ton of stuff in the hopes and prayers that you'll somehow make it even though genetically you really haven't been dealt a great hand. If you didn't blow up real quick when you 1st started training and "got on" then don't pour your life into it hoping that you're gonna be the next guy on the front of the mags at the grocery store.

Everyone should shoot to achieve their dreams, but the bodybuilding IFBB pro dream just seems to be the most illogical one to chase after IMO unless you're genetically blessed and in which case you'd stand out and then you'd at least have a reason to chase that dream.

[PillClinton]

Whos to say it can really be a burden? That is an opinion my friend and btw if you want to be great at something then there is no harm in paying attention to minute detail, if ian was big and lean and actually had genetics to look like a body builder, hed be playing a different tune on his flute, but since he doesnt appear to be someone who stands out and is hating on people who want to dedicate them selves by working hard at something, its pretty obvious hes just upset and unhappy with his own results.


And stop using the its easy for.body building to take over ur life bs...

At the end of the day if you cant control your own actions and what is healthy and.unhealthy for.you, the problem lies deeper within urself then just the hobby your pursuing weather its bbing or reading as someone else previously exampled.

not sure if you read my post, because i don't feel like the points you are making follow...

of course bodybuildng can be a burden to many, of course it is an opinion, and of course you have to pay attention to many details if you want to be achieve a lot of success. My point was that some people would be better of not being so hardcore about their dedication and realize that there are other things in life to pursue, especially if they don't even have the goal to achieve that success but their actions speak like they do. Have you ever met someone 110% dedicated to the bodybuilding lifestyle, being natural, and never wanting to compete? I have, and its a strain being around someone who's goals don't line up with their actions, especially considering that they could achieve their fitness goals without as much stubborn dedication. Who wants to hang around someone who acts like they are competing at the olympia, but don't want to get "huge?"

Not even sure why you brought up ian mcarthy. I don't know what you are referring to and I never mentioned him.

(this is also an opinion), it is easy for bodybuilding to take control of someone's life, especially if they were addicts to begin with. Whether you want to believe it or not, the fitness world itself draws in many many addicts, especially in bodybuilding, so i am not sure why you sought to adamantly defend that point with mental health arguments. And I am not sure why you chose the word "using" in the second to last paragraph.

Overall, i am more confused than informed about what you are trying to say

[PillClinton]

My point was you shouldn't chase the dream of becoming an IFBB pro if you don't have what it takes to make it. I never said anything about doing recreational stuff that makes you happy. Hell I do that with powerlifting. I'm not sinking my life savings into it, selling my cars, or doing g4p in the hopes that I'll be the strongest ever though.

I just don't see the point in loading yourself up with a ton of stuff in the hopes and prayers that you'll somehow make it even though genetically you really haven't been dealt a great hand. If you didn't blow up real quick when you 1st started training and "got on" then don't pour your life into it hoping that you're gonna be the next guy on the front of the mags at the grocery store.

Everyone should shoot to achieve their dreams, but the bodybuilding IFBB pro dream just seems to be the most illogical one to chase after IMO unless you're genetically blessed and in which case you'd stand out and then you'd at least have a reason to chase that dream.

yeah, i am pretty much saying this. why invest so much mental focus on such a specific goal, especially if you A) don't have what it takes genetically, B) don't even want to be an IFBB Pro, but train/eat like they do? Can't tell you how many delusional people i have seen on bodyspace who do either A or B

[zmcdole]

For example, that Cody Lewis fella. Do you guys think he's wasting his time? My guess is you'd argue that he's living the dream.

I think we know for sure he's all in.



But I don't think there's many here who think he's gonna make it.

And if he does get that pro card, what's that mean? Nothing really unless you're a Phil Heath, Dexter Jackson, Ronnie Coleman, Jay Cutler etc.

Just for fun, lets guess where he'll be in 15 years after gunning for the pro card doing whatever it takes and deciding he's had enough. My guess is his body will be pretty beat up and his endocrine system will be shot forcing him to be on HRT for the rest of his life. He'll look like he's never even touched a weight and he'll have nothing to show for it except for a few medals and trophies. But hey, if that's his dream, live and let live. Just isn't the life I'd wanna lead or try to live if I wasn't blowing people away on stage from the beginning.

[1325AIR]

Thought I'd stumble into the convo, since I watched the whole vid.

First off, a big thanks to Dave and Mike P! My Wife bought me RTB 1,2,3 for X-mas and after I finish the last CD will post a review. I am confused as to why a Pro with so much experience would banter about with this kid and his pseudo science, for which he failed, miserably, to show any imperical evidence or other hard data and didn't even know how long the trials were that gave him his "data".

But I digress...

We have all seen how "science" says one thing one day and something totally different the next on every topic from vitamins and supps to physics. Sometimes it's not the data that's wrong but rather our limited interpretation of the data.

Dave P and many other Pros eat several meals (as do many of us here) and it works...."data" be damned. I don't know about the "thermic effect" and whether that is or isn't true but there are other benefits to eating several smaller meals which do not require science to confirm/dispel.

- small meal = small belly (who in the hell wants to stuff 3600+ cals in their belly in 1 meal especially from whole food)
- small meal = less sugar in blood = less being stored as fat
- small meal = satiety = not overeating and causing "fatness" lol
for example.....

But anywho always like Mike's vids though I wish you'd do some more investigative style journalism i.e. stalk the little frat boy and find out what he's really up to

[Loctus]

^Why are you calling Dave a "Pro". He isn't a pro.

Also, I can give you a dozen of articles from peer reviewed journals that conclude that meal frequency really does not have a direct effect on TEF or BMR. It might have an indirect one, which no one has ever tried to argue against. What Ian would say is "eat whatever amount of meals it is that works the best for you", and that one does not need to eat 5+ meals per day for "optimal gainz", which is what this whole debacle is about; the old bro-myth that it is somehow needed to eat every 2½ hours if you want to maximize your results as a bodybuilder.

I really can't understand why someone would have a problem with this idea, but apparently A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE do

edit: nvm that last line I wrote, I do know why people ahve a problem with it. They don't want to accept that you don't need to "sacrifice to win" and that the time they brought brown rice and chicken with them to class so they could eat at 2:15pm on the dot was a completely retarded waste of energy and now they don't want to admit that what they did was pointless. Thus they rage on people who say "bro, you don't need to do that you know, you can just eat it whenever it fits your schedule"

[Lvisaa2]

Thought I'd stumble into the convo, since I watched the whole vid.

First off, a big thanks to Dave and Mike P! My Wife bought me RTB 1,2,3 for X-mas and after I finish the last CD will post a review. I am confused as to why a Pro with so much experience would banter about with this kid and his pseudo science, for which he failed, miserably, to show any imperical evidence or other hard data and didn't even know how long the trials were that gave him his "data".

But I digress...

We have all seen how "science" says one thing one day and something totally different the next on every topic from vitamins and supps to physics. Sometimes it's not the data that's wrong but rather our limited interpretation of the data.

Dave P and many other Pros eat several meals (as do many of us here) and it works...."data" be damned. I don't know about the "thermic effect" and whether that is or isn't true but there are other benefits to eating several smaller meals which do not require science to confirm/dispel.

- small meal = small belly (who in the hell wants to stuff 3600+ cals in their belly in 1 meal especially from whole food)
- small meal = less sugar in blood = less being stored as fat
- small meal = satiety = not overeating and causing "fatness" lol
for example.....

But anywho always like Mike's vids though I wish you'd do some more investigative style journalism i.e. stalk the little frat boy and find out what he's really up to

You are precisely why people like Ian exist. You spew random info without understanding its implications. So what if a larger meal causes more momentary fat storage? It is about the overall balance that determines whether you gain or lose weight. Plus claims of satiety are neither supported by science or by many people. So saying small meals brings more satiety is false as it is dependent on the person.

[stealth_swimmer]

Why does everyone hate this Ian guy?

They both make good and bad points.

x2

Indeed, what really made me cringe though is that Ian is usually in people's face about everything, but when it was turned around on him as to why he was on this crusade again people 'wasting' their life bodybuilding


...


...


"Gives me something to do."

lol, yeah, was kinda funny. Personally, I enjoy spreading what I believe to be truth because I feel it helps make the world a better place. Even if I'm wrong, in which case I'm fine with learning I'm wrong cus I don't wanna be wrong. I think that ultimately, the only tools we have to make the world a better place are truth and love. Yes, I know that sounds extremely cheesy, but that's what I believe.

[DPNZ]

I eat and train the way I do because I love it. I don't care about the end result. I balance my life well because I'm an adult with a ****ing brain.

I eat 6-7 times a day with extreme ease and simple preparation.

**** Ian and his total lack of ability to practice what he preaches.

[Lvisaa2]

I eat and train the way I do because I love it. I don't care about the end result. I balance my life well because I'm an adult with a ****ing brain.

I eat 6-7 times a day with extreme ease and simple preparation.

**** Ian and his total lack of ability to practice what he preaches.

I appreciate that you can approach it with perspective, but lots don't. Tons of younger kids get hooked on lifting/dieting and take it to the extreme which results in EDs and consumption of their life.

I think Ian approaches it the wrong way, but I'm a firm believer in eating/lifting in a way you enjoy. Whether that be 10 meals a day or two, as long as you approach it rationally then you are probably fine. Lifting/fitness/health should be a lifelong pursuit and eating in a schedule that you hate is counterproductive to that. I see too many people quit because they think the lifestyle is too demanding. While there are demands, everyone should find their own balance and learn how to fit it into their life. Consistency and effort goes a long way