Protein before workout?

[joen270]

i like a scoop before

[newpctech]

I like to get a bowl of cottage cheese or a protein bar about 60 min before my workout then I get a shake 30 after the workout....I follow up before bed with yogurt or cottage cheese before bed.

[ygbodybuilder10]

Volume makes a difference as I indicated above. But every competitive bodybuilder I know of who has used a carb-free protocol has done so lifting heavy and doing cardio. WTF is a 'light workout'?

wait a min, so would u recommend one of those keto diets for some one like ronnie coleman, and we all know how he trains

[Ace50]

Usually eat a solid meal an hour or two before. You should be good to workout with or without aid of pre-workout supplementation.

Then I take 1.5-2 Scoops of Protein with Water after I workout, then eat a meal shortly afterwards.

[dvsness]

a half assd one...

So you are indicating that professional bodybuilders that utilize diets different for yours don't know how to train as well as you?

wait a min, so would u recommend one of those keto diets for some one like ronnie coleman, and we all know how he trains

I recommend retiring to Ronnie based on his last guest posing.

[ygbodybuilder10]

I recommend retiring to Ronnie based on his last guest posing.

lol wowwwwwwwwwww

[dvsness]

lol wowwwwwwwwwww

Hey, he was one of the greatest. Better to preserve that memory and go out gracefully as he first announced than to have this foolish 'comeback'.

[ygbodybuilder10]

Hey, he was one of the greatest. Better to preserve that memory and go out gracefully as he first announced than to have this foolish 'comeback'.

i agree

[BalloonKnot]

It have been said before but a solid food meal pre-workout is much better than a protein shake as whey protein spikes insulin and an insulin spike pre-workout is not a great idea.

My post workout shake contains:

50g whey
20g leucine (insulin spike)
20g glutamine (insulin spike)
20g glycine (replenish energy stores)
4g Prolab Creapure creatine

I consume this post workout regardless of training volume. Post workout carbs are over rated.

[ygbodybuilder10]

It have been said before but a solid food meal pre-workout is much better than a protein shake as whey protein spikes insulin and an insulin spike pre-workout is not a great idea.

My post workout shake contains:

50g whey
20g leucine (insulin spike)
20g glutamine (insulin spike)
20g glycine (replenish energy stores)
4g Prolab Creapure creatine

I consume this post workout regardless of training volume. Post workout carbs are over rated.

is their proof to this statement

[TMac26]

It have been said before but a solid food meal pre-workout is much better than a protein shake as whey protein spikes insulin and an insulin spike pre-workout is not a great idea.

My post workout shake contains:

50g whey
20g leucine (insulin spike)
20g glutamine (insulin spike)
20g glycine (replenish energy stores)
4g Prolab Creapure creatine

I consume this post workout regardless of training volume. Post workout carbs are over rated.

Glutamine is garbage....You can't have an insulin spike without carbs to provide the spike...thats why you get "sugar crashes" you body produces a ton of insulin in response to the sugar..then the sugar is burned up and you are left with just insulin...that's why complex carbs are important it takes insulin longer to break them down...so simple carbs are important post workout to induce the insulin spike

[dvsness]

Glutamine is garbage....

Explain.

You can't have an insulin spike without carbs to provide the spike...thats why you get "sugar crashes" you body produces a ton of insulin in response to the sugar..then the sugar is burned up and you are left with just insulin...that's why complex carbs are important it takes insulin longer to break them down...so simple carbs are important post workout to induce the insulin spike

Carbs are not the only thing that spike insulin. Everything you eat will spike it to a degree. BCAAs actually spike insulin quite well.

[TMac26]

Explain.



Carbs are not the only thing that spike insulin. Everything you eat will spike it to a degree. BCAAs actually spike insulin quite well.

Well the do to some degree...but in my Advanced Nutrition class in school (I'm a bio major/minor in nutrition)....BCAA's spike insulin to a MILD degree compared to simple carbs...if you are avoiding carbs then yes BCAA's would be a good choice..but you would need quite a bit.....there is no replacement for carbs postworkout



As far as the glutamine...this thread convinced me

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=3426061

[dvsness]

Well the do to some degree...but in my Advanced Nutrition class in school (I'm a bio major/minor in nutrition)....BCAA's spike insulin to a MILD degree compared to simple carbs...if you are avoiding carbs then yes BCAA's would be a good choice..but you would need quite a bit.....there is no replacement for carbs postworkout



As far as the glutamine...this thread convinced me

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=3426061

Ok, since you're stuck on carbs... What if you have carbs in your nutritional plan, carbs in your pre-WO meal, but not in your PWO meal? What happens?

As far as Glutamine, I am more fond of it than carbs.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...11&postcount=4

Immune boosting, gut health, and glucose disposal? Useless!

JPEN J Parenter Enteral Nutr. 2006 Mar-Apr;30(2):76-80.

Glutamine supplementation increases postprandial energy expenditure and fat oxidation in humans.

Iwa****a S, Mikus C, Baier S, Flakoll PJ.

BACKGROUND: Glutamine interacts with insulin-mediated glucose disposal, which is a component of the increase in energy expenditure (EE) after a meal. The study aim was to examine if glutamine supplementation alters postmeal nutrient oxidation. METHODS: Ten healthy young adults consumed a mixed meal (6.5 kcal/kg, 14%:22%:64% = protein:fat:carbohydrate) containing either glutamine (GLN:1.05 kcal/kg) or an isocaloric amino acid mixture (alanine: glycine:serine = 2:1:0.5; CON). GLN and CON treatments were administered on separate days in random order for each subject. EE, nonprotein respiratory quotient (RQ), and fat and carbohydrate oxidation rates were assessed using indirect calorimetry for 30 minutes before and for 360 minutes after meal ingestion. RESULTS: Premeal EE and RQ were similar between treatments. The increase in EE above basal during both early (0-180 minutes) and late (180-360 minutes) postmeal phases was greater in GLN than in CON (p < .05), resulting in postmeal EE being 49% greater during the total postmeal phase (p < .05). Net change of carbohydrate oxidation was 38% higher during the early phase with GLN (p < .05), whereas it was 71% lower during the later phase (p < .05). GLN enhanced fat oxidation by approximately 42 kcal compared with CON during the late phase (p < .05). CONCLUSIONS: Glutamine supplementation with a mixed meal alters nutrient metabolism to increase postmeal EE by increasing carbohydrate oxidation during the early postmeal phase and fat oxidation during the late postmeal phase. Consideration must be given to the potential that these postprandial changes in EE are related to glutamine-mediated changes in insulin action and consequently glucose disposal.

[ygbodybuilder10]

Explain.



Carbs are not the only thing that spike insulin. Everything you eat will spike it to a degree. BCAAs actually spike insulin quite well.

so one shouldnt take in alot of bccas

[TMac26]

Ok, since you're stuck on carbs... What if you have carbs in your nutritional plan, carbs in your pre-WO meal, but not in your PWO meal? What happens?

As far as Glutamine, I am more fond of it than carbs.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...11&postcount=4

Immune boosting, gut health, and glucose disposal? Useless!

JPEN J Parenter Enteral Nutr. 2006 Mar-Apr;30(2):76-80.

Glutamine supplementation increases postprandial energy expenditure and fat oxidation in humans.

Iwa****a S, Mikus C, Baier S, Flakoll PJ.

BACKGROUND: Glutamine interacts with insulin-mediated glucose disposal, which is a component of the increase in energy expenditure (EE) after a meal. The study aim was to examine if glutamine supplementation alters postmeal nutrient oxidation. METHODS: Ten healthy young adults consumed a mixed meal (6.5 kcal/kg, 14%:22%:64% = protein:fat:carbohydrate) containing either glutamine (GLN:1.05 kcal/kg) or an isocaloric amino acid mixture (alanine: glycine:serine = 2:1:0.5; CON). GLN and CON treatments were administered on separate days in random order for each subject. EE, nonprotein respiratory quotient (RQ), and fat and carbohydrate oxidation rates were assessed using indirect calorimetry for 30 minutes before and for 360 minutes after meal ingestion. RESULTS: Premeal EE and RQ were similar between treatments. The increase in EE above basal during both early (0-180 minutes) and late (180-360 minutes) postmeal phases was greater in GLN than in CON (p < .05), resulting in postmeal EE being 49% greater during the total postmeal phase (p < .05). Net change of carbohydrate oxidation was 38% higher during the early phase with GLN (p < .05), whereas it was 71% lower during the later phase (p < .05). GLN enhanced fat oxidation by approximately 42 kcal compared with CON during the late phase (p < .05). CONCLUSIONS: Glutamine supplementation with a mixed meal alters nutrient metabolism to increase postmeal EE by increasing carbohydrate oxidation during the early postmeal phase and fat oxidation during the late postmeal phase. Consideration must be given to the potential that these postprandial changes in EE are related to glutamine-mediated changes in insulin action and consequently glucose disposal.

Yea i can see you and carbs have a love hate relationship...you love to hate'em.

As far as a pre workout meal with carbs i work out very intensely and do bout 30 min of HIT cardio after weights. I've done the no carb thing after working out and i was miserable. No energy what-so-ever...went back to just a few carbs (like 30 grams..not a ton) and then for the rest of the day i dont eat a crap load of carbs. My post workout meal usually consists of tons of steamed veggies and lean chicken and beef. I just think that supplementing with glutamine is a marketing scam. With the 2-3 shakes a day esp. with ON protein there is no need to supplement with glutamine. Esp. since is found naturally found in protein of all kinds...i just prefer to spend that money i would on glutamine on whole food and protein powder

[dvsness]

Yea i can see you and carbs have a love hate relationship...you love to hate'em.

As far as a pre workout meal with carbs i work out very intensely and do bout 30 min of HIT cardio after weights. I've done the no carb thing after working out and i was miserable. No energy what-so-ever...went back to just a few carbs (like 30 grams..not a ton) and then for the rest of the day i dont eat a crap load of carbs. My post workout meal usually consists of tons of steamed veggies and lean chicken and beef. I just think that supplementing with glutamine is a marketing scam. With the 2-3 shakes a day esp. with ON protein there is no need to supplement with glutamine. Esp. since is found naturally found in protein of all kinds...i just prefer to spend that money i would on glutamine on whole food and protein powder

Ah, but you are wrong. I eat carbs. I had pasta with my last meal.

I don't hate carbs, I hate misinformation. I am just making it clear that you don't need carbs PWO. You can enjoy them or not. You can augment your physique with or without them, as well as with or without glutamine or protein shakes.

However, I gave you a study on how glutamine can effect insulin and glucose disposal and you chose to ignore it in favor of your marketing theory.

[dvsness]

so one shouldnt take in alot of bccas

Depends. Some people like to take a lot PWO. I rarely use aminos and if I do it's a very small to moderate amount pre-AM cardio or between lifting and cardio during prep. I don't perform cardio offseason and never take them for any other circumstance.

[TMac26]

Ah, but you are wrong. I eat carbs. I had pasta with my last meal.

I don't hate carbs, I hate misinformation. I am just making it clear that you don't need carbs PWO. You can enjoy them or not. You can augment your physique with or without them, as well as with or without glutamine or protein shakes.

However, I gave you a study on how glutamine can effect insulin and glucose disposal and you chose to ignore it in favor of your marketing theory.

No i wasnt ignoring it...your post was exactly right when it comes to glutamine it does work i just dont believe in supplementing with it. And i dont mean to bash at all...i'm sorry if i came across that way...please accept my apologies

[dvsness]

No i wasnt ignoring it...your post was exactly right when it comes to glutamine it does work i just dont believe in supplementing with it. And i dont mean to bash at all...i'm sorry if i came across that way...please accept my apologies

It's all good! I just want to make sure the reading audience doesn't think you need carbs. I would speak out just as much if someone said you can't cut with carbs (another myth) as you certainly can get lean using them.

[TMac26]

It's all good! I just want to make sure the reading audience doesn't think you need carbs. I would speak out just as much if someone said you can't cut with carbs (another myth) as you certainly can get lean using them.

Spoken with 100% words of wisdom....Ma'am its no wonder you are a Prolab rep

Edit: i meant Prolab sponsored Athlete

[ygbodybuilder10]

Depends. Some people like to take a lot PWO. I rarely use aminos and if I do it's a very small to moderate amount pre-AM cardio or between lifting and cardio during prep. I don't perform cardio offseason and never take them for any other circumstance.

i know people that take it all day, for example layne norton and marc

well i take in alot of protein drink, so i guess my insulin spike id up the roof

[dvsness]

well i take in alot of protein drink, so i guess my insulin spike id up the roof

FFAA is not the same as protein.

[ygbodybuilder10]

FFAA is not the same as protein.

but their is alot of bcca in protein powder

also dvsness what are your thoughts on those like me who do take in carbs while dieting.

why do you think we do it and what we benifit from it?

[dvsness]

but their is alot of bcca in protein powder

also dvsness what are your thoughts on those like me who do take in carbs while dieting.

why do you think we do it and what we benifit from it?

Bound still /= FF.

Nothing wrong with carbs while dieting. I've done preps using carbs as well. I know guys who prep with 300g of carbs a day. So long as you're in sufficient caloric deficit, have adequate protein for muscle retention and are losing fat on schedule, don't fix what's not broken. Do what works best for you, your physique, your energy levels and mental state.

[BalloonKnot]

in my Advanced Nutrition class in school (I'm a bio major/minor in nutrition)....BCAA's spike insulin to a MILD degree compared to simple carbs...if you are avoiding carbs then yes BCAA's would be a good choice..but you would need quite a bit.....there is no replacement for carbs postworkout

The flat liners that wrote your text book and the flat liner that is teaching that class are at least twenty years behind the elite fitness professionals in post workout nutrition science.

Play the game and get the 'A' in the class but most of what you are learning is severely dated.

[SouthernLord]

Bound still /= FF.

Nothing wrong with carbs while dieting. I've done preps using carbs as well. I know guys who prep with 300g of carbs a day. So long as you're in sufficient caloric deficit, have adequate protein for muscle retention and are losing fat on schedule, don't fix what's not broken. Do what works best for you, your physique, your energy levels and mental state.

I got rippedddd up carb cycling this past spring. On my high day(s) I was eating upwards of 800g of cho lol.

This thread is full of misinformation. I;m glad you are keeping these guys in check. I've agreed in my head with everything you've posted in this thread lol.

[MoonWalker0]

The flat liners that wrote your text book and the flat liner that is teaching that class are at least twenty years behind the elite fitness professionals in post workout nutrition science.

Play the game and get the 'A' in the class but most of what you are learning is severely dated.

So he should trust some dude on the internet instead?

[ygbodybuilder10]

Bound still /= FF.

Nothing wrong with carbs while dieting. I've done preps using carbs as well. I know guys who prep with 300g of carbs a day. So long as you're in sufficient caloric deficit, have adequate protein for muscle retention and are losing fat on schedule, don't fix what's not broken. Do what works best for you, your physique, your energy levels and mental state.

so dvsness, when one is bulking do you still think one doesnt need post workout carbs

also do u think one can put on body fat and still be at the same body weight

[TMac26]

So he should trust some dude on the internet instead?

Good point...my textbook was wrote this past year (2009 edition) and my Prof. has a Ph.D and is only 28 is also a bodybuilder...usually knows what he is talking bout....also...he wrote the book that we use in the class