God is not real, prove to me that he is.

[Jerking_Off]

Sigh, another little **** who just watched some atheists argue on youtube now feels all intellectual and badass for making threads like this.

We all go through it. Get over it fast, it's better for you.

[HereToGain94]

Rash/10

[Ka0s]

If you want to have a philosophy off then come at me bro.

I said that because this thread has been so many times I can't be bothered to write a worthy response where I would pick apart the meaning of 'proof' and it is meaningless in relation to the notion of a God.

You must have missed where I said "no offense Gancor =P"

[pothead93]

In after essay

cliff pls?

[sparkblade]

One of my favorite units in a philosophy course I took was on religion. One of the philosophers we studied, St. Thomas Aquinas, was the most persuasive to me.

Not my own work as of here....
Aquinas’ first proof is through the argument of motion. It can be noted that some things in the universe are in motion and it follows that whatever is in the state of motion must have been placed in motion by another such act. Motion in itself is nothing less then the reduction of something from the state of potentiality to actuality. Because something can not be in potentiality and actuality simultaneously, it follows that something can not be a mover of itself. A simple example of this is a rubber ball motionless on a flat surface. It has the potential for motion, but is not currently in the state of actual motion. In order for this to happen, something else in motion must set the ball in motion, be that gravity, another moving object or the wind. And yet something must have set that object in motion as well (even gravity, a force caused by matter warping the space-time fabric, attributes its existence to pre-existing matter and the exchange of pre-existing graviton particles). Thus pre-existing motions cause all motions. Yet, this chain can not extend into infinity because that would deny a first mover that set all else in motion. Without a first mover, nothing could be set in motion. Thus we acknowledge the first and primary mover as God.

The second proof follows closely with the first and expounds the principle of causality. St. Thomas explains that in the world of sense there is an order of causes and effects. There is a cause for all things such as the existence of a clock. And nothing can cause itself into existence. A clock cannot will itself into existence, it must be created and caused into existence by something else. A clockmaker creates a clock and causes its existence, and yet the material of the clock and the clockmaker did not cause themselves to exist. Something else must have caused their existence. All things can attribute their existence to a first cause that began all causes and all things. We call this first cause God.

Aquinas next explains that things of this universe have a transitory nature in which they are generated and then corrupt over time. Because of this the things of nature can be said to be "possible to be and possible not to be". Since it is impossible for these things always to exist, then it indicates a time when they did not exist. If there are things which are transitory (and are possible not to be) then at one time there could have been nothing in existence. However, as was already explained in his second proof, there must have been a first cause that was not of transitory nature that could have generated the beginning of nature.

In his fourth point Aquinas notes that there is a certain gradation in all things. For instance we can group things that are hot according to varying degrees of the amount of heat perceptible in that object. In classifying objects there is always something which displays the maximum fullness of that characteristic. Thus universal qualities in man such as justice and goodness must attribute their varying qualities to God; the source of maximum and perfect justice and goodness.

Finally, Thomas Aquinas says that the order of nature presupposes a higher plan in creation. The laws governing the universe presuppose a universal legislature who authored the order of the universe. We cannot say that chance creates order in the universe. If you drop a cup on the floor it shatters into bits and has become disordered. But if you were to drop bits of the cup, they would not assemble together into a cup. This is an example of the inherent disorder prevalent in the universe when things are left to chance. The existence of order and natural laws presupposes a divine intelligence who authored the universe into being.

I agree.

[Asiannn]

One of my favorite units in a philosophy course I took was on religion. One of the philosophers we studied, St. Thomas Aquinas, was the most persuasive to me.

Not my own work as of here....
Aquinas’ first proof is through the argument of motion. It can be noted that some things in the universe are in motion and it follows that whatever is in the state of motion must have been placed in motion by another such act. Motion in itself is nothing less then the reduction of something from the state of potentiality to actuality. Because something can not be in potentiality and actuality simultaneously, it follows that something can not be a mover of itself. A simple example of this is a rubber ball motionless on a flat surface. It has the potential for motion, but is not currently in the state of actual motion. In order for this to happen, something else in motion must set the ball in motion, be that gravity, another moving object or the wind. And yet something must have set that object in motion as well (even gravity, a force caused by matter warping the space-time fabric, attributes its existence to pre-existing matter and the exchange of pre-existing graviton particles). Thus pre-existing motions cause all motions. Yet, this chain can not extend into infinity because that would deny a first mover that set all else in motion. Without a first mover, nothing could be set in motion. Thus we acknowledge the first and primary mover as God.

The primary movement was set about (theoretically) by the Big Bang, which thrust materials outwards and created the constantly expanding universe of today. Also note that there's no friction in space, so as the big bang essentially created space and caused particles to move, they continued to move until they stopped. This led to the formation of small planets which had a strong enough gravitational force to grow larger and larger into rocks, while other dust and gas particles formed the stars, etc

The second proof follows closely with the first and expounds the principle of causality. St. Thomas explains that in the world of sense there is an order of causes and effects. There is a cause for all things such as the existence of a clock. And nothing can cause itself into existence. A clock cannot will itself into existence, it must be created and caused into existence by something else. A clockmaker creates a clock and causes its existence, and yet the material of the clock and the clockmaker did not cause themselves to exist. Something else must have caused their existence. All things can attribute their existence to a first cause that began all causes and all things. We call this first cause God.

Tell me then, where did god come from? Are we to assume that nothing else can defy physics but god, that he is a supernatural being that is simply there without a creator? If god 'created' the big bang, who is god's creator? In order to cause motion or existance, one needs energy. Are you saying that god is a form of energy that can defy physics? There could have been other explanations for this rather than a supernatural being willing things into creation.

Aquinas next explains that things of this universe have a transitory nature in which they are generated and then corrupt over time. Because of this the things of nature can be said to be "possible to be and possible not to be". Since it is impossible for these things always to exist, then it indicates a time when they did not exist. If there are things which are transitory (and are possible not to be) then at one time there could have been nothing in existence. However, as was already explained in his second proof, there must have been a first cause that was not of transitory nature that could have generated the beginning of nature.

In his fourth point Aquinas notes that there is a certain gradation in all things. For instance we can group things that are hot according to varying degrees of the amount of heat perceptible in that object. In classifying objects there is always something which displays the maximum fullness of that characteristic. Thus universal qualities in man such as justice and goodness must attribute their varying qualities to God; the source of maximum and perfect justice and goodness.

Why do we attribute our qualities to god? Things are how they are. There is no 'maximum' goodness in man. How would one justify this? What is the LIMIT of this maximum goodness, and if no man has ever attained this limit how do you know it exists? If we can find new elements with higher and higher melting points, do we assume that the melting point caps off at the highest element we can find? No, there remains that uncertainty that a new element may be discovered with a higher melting point.

Finally, Thomas Aquinas says that the order of nature presupposes a higher plan in creation. The laws governing the universe presuppose a universal legislature who authored the order of the universe. We cannot say that chance creates order in the universe. If you drop a cup on the floor it shatters into bits and has become disordered. But if you were to drop bits of the cup, they would not assemble together into a cup. This is an example of the inherent disorder prevalent in the universe when things are left to chance. The existence of order and natural laws presupposes a divine intelligence who authored the universe into being.

I kinda just put a lot of opinion into that lol

[kRausa]

religious debates are the biggest waste of time. lol @ you *******s.

[Gancor]

Why do we attribute our qualities to god? Things are how they are. There is no 'maximum' goodness in man. How would one justify this? What is the LIMIT of this maximum goodness, and if no man has ever attained this limit how do you know it exists? If we can find new elements with higher and higher melting points, do we assume that the melting point caps off at the highest element we can find? No, there remains that uncertainty that a new element may be discovered with a higher melting point.

Maximum goodness in man could be said to be where his acts don't come into moral conflict with anything because his inner faculties never actually give rise to desires which contradict moral justness. Hence he is perfectly just.

How you define what is moral justness is up in the air though.

[gonnebehuge]

Ok, so I was walking home from the gym today and I havent lifted for a week. My numbers were pretty **** (only 315x8.5 today on bench, but ive got >500 when i was around 385lbs, now 366), anyways I was walking and threw an empty condom wrapper in front of the church, before it hit the ground, a strike of lightning zapped it in midair. LOL coincidence??

[MartyrMoose]

LOL IM BUDDHIST

[gonnebehuge]

Okay, so people are negging me calling me "Athiest". Let me clarify that I am NOT. I dont believe in **** like the big bang, wtf is that bs? I believe that the world was created by Dinosaurs (100% srs). Dont ask me about my religion because I am very private about it and only a few people in the world see the world the way I do.

[Zach93]

If God isn't real then how do you explain magnets?

[LankedOut]

If God isn't real then how do you explain magnets?

Fucking magic.

[Jibbin.Rails]

i think u know he's real and just dont wanna admit it.

[gonnebehuge]

i think u know he's real and just dont wanna admit it.

im in denial brah

[Wegzyzz]

yea proof that he exists means nothing when you look at the bigger picture. His unconditional love for you and that everything that happens to us has a reason that contributes something meaningful to our lives. had to have my mom almost die of cancer, dad die of drug abuse, and hit rock bottom to realize and accept those two things which are comforting and moreover... liberating. That and watching Fight Club.

people need to keep an open mind... that goes for both sides of any argument otherwise it just sounds like a bunch of conflicting biased opinions.

[gonnebehuge]

yea proof that he exists means nothing when you look at the bigger picture. His unconditional love for you and that everything that happens to us has a reason that contributes something meaningful to our lives. had to have my mom almost die of cancer, dad die of drug abuse, and hit rock bottom to realize and accept those two things which are comforting and moreover... liberating. That and watching Fight Club.

people need to keep an open mind... that goes for both sides of any argument otherwise it just sounds like a bunch of conflicting biased opinions.

god doesnt exist

there is medicine to fight cancer, and rehabilitation to fight drug abuse

DINOSAUR>ALL

[Uberwaffle]

The only plausible conclusion is





































Santa Claus is God

[gonnebehuge]

The only plausible conclusion is











n

























Santa Claus is God

not really tempted not to neg you...

[joel223]

I propose that you are not real, prove to me that you are.

[gonnebehuge]

I propose that you are not real, prove to me that you are.

does god post on bb.com lol?

[Jibbin.Rails]

does god post on bb.com lol?

prove to me he isnt real, with facts brah.

[mr_ben]

ok, time for story..

A and B were friends. They are arguing if God existed. B thinks God does exist. But A doesn't.
So A start asking B :
A:can u see God?
B : No
A : Can u hear God?
B : No
A : can u touch God?
B : yes, the wind and as such in nature.
A : so, 2 out of 3, there is no God.

Now, B asks A
B : can u see ur brain?
A : No
B : Can u hear ur brain?
A : No
B : can u touch ur brain?
A : no
B : so, 3 out of 3, u have no brain!!

lol.

[Achilles-]

another original thread from the misc. I'm athiest but seriously, I've heard enough of this crap and I dont care what they believe in and there is no way they will ever believe what we believe or that we believe what they believe. It all comes down to that we are all run on our own faith and there isn't any point in talking about it anymore.

[ThePook]

ok, time for story..

A and B were friends. They are arguing if God existed. B thinks God does exist. But A doesn't.
So A start asking B :
A:can u see God?
B : No
A : Can u hear God?
B : No
A : can u touch God?
B : yes, the wind and as such in nature.
A : so, 2 out of 3, there is no God.

Now, B asks A
B : can u see ur brain?
A : No
B : Can u hear ur brain?
A : No
B : can u touch ur brain?
A : no
B : so, 3 out of 3, u have no brain!!

lol.

wow. i lost some brain cells after reading this. please read what you just wrote.

[Wegzyzz]

god doesnt exist

there is medicine to fight cancer, and rehabilitation to fight drug abuse

DINOSAUR>ALL

hence how my mom lived. fortunately it was found early on and the medicine had a 80/20 chance of working. yeah great rehab for drug abuse wow really you're 22? :facepalm: contrary to popular belief stuff doesn't just get fixed. Consider my dad--he had a condition. He was bipolar. You can't just put him somewhere and sh*t just works and he's better again. Likewise God can't control who lives or who dies and that's because of our FREE WILL. But he can use those things for you to grow and realize things and appreciate them.

Hitler took power because of democracy. Cause & Effect explains the rest.

proof is temporary, you're life on this planet is temporary and science/religion is, ultimately, a bunch of meaningless bullsh*t therefore you're proof is nothing in the big picture and long run.

[gonnebehuge]

prove to me he isnt real, with facts brah.

why, you a believer?

[Animal_Strength]

I believe that the world was created by Dinosaurs (100% srs). .

am i the only one who saw this and went WHAT THE FRUITCAKE IS THIS SH*T?


to try and dissprove God by saying well i cant see feel touch or hear him is stupid. can u feel oxygen? hear it? touch it? see it? how about cells? can you show me one on a plate? hand me an electron?

thank you.

[ZenBrah]

jesus backwards sounds like sausage.

[Cyre]

Christianty has been been blown out of proportion. Remember that the bible to this day has only what the church wants you to see in it. Think of all the books that the vatican church burnt to keep their stories "real" and "true". (yes this is true the church burnt any books that had anything to do with magic or anything that opposed their thoughts. This was during a crusade.)

Religion does nothing but cause war. People who believe need to grow up, and as studies show, as we are progressing there are less idiots believing in religions.

If you ask a random christian why they believe in god the most common answer you will get is "so i dont go to hell". From what i see, people need something to believe in to give them purpose.

In general, people are very retarded and will follow whatever is spoonfed to them, if they are brought up in a christian family then they will most likely grow up as a christian etc etc.