Confused on how and where to begin

[MyEgoProblem]

Going from an on the rails machine to a free weigh movement is fine if you have actually built the strength and skill (which includes stabilisation ������) and kinesthetic awareness by doing said free weigh movement pattern in the past or concurrently..

Machine jockeys, and we have all seen this happen.. Who only use machines and never developed the ability to actually control and move their their loaded body or a bb/db thru space....

That's just when the embarrassment starts for them. They are piss weak, uncoordinated because their is no rail to move on, they move like a wobbly legged baby dear, are unable to stabilise the movement due to not actually building the musculature that stabilises the joints the prime movers are using.

Let alone the ability for their trunk/ to hold any appreciable load or know how to brace it.

Everyone should really put in the time to learn and develop at least a working skill level of the basic free weigh movements with some external loading..
its as mandatory for anyone who wants to keep a good quality of life as they age aswell as for any athlete. (this includes aesthetics only weirdos too xD)

Stabilisers are real But most of us all do some variation that develops them any way and we can if soo desired so 90% of our work on machines or with smalls movements.

Do you do a squat that requires bslance & brace?
Do you do a Hinge that requires balance & brace?
So you do a push that requires you to Stabilise your arms/shouldder joint or you eat it?

Or have previously acquired and maintained these?
Then youre Probably good

[air2fakie]

Ad most are built to a terrible spec that actually encourages you to load more plates due to deliberately leveragibg them to NEED more plates. To make you feel better/stronger

Old leg press machines.. Using ⅓ of the weight. Doing a better job.. Just sadly don't get used cos "damn i got wesk, i could do 400kg last time, not 200... I'll use the other one"... Go don't get kept in gyms nor are new ones built to that spec.

I know cardio isn't popular here, but it's the same trick manufacturers use for the calorie counter on their treadmills, bikes and ellipticals to make theirs popular. Each company keeps increasing the meter until people all think they're burning 2,000 cals during a 25 minute session.

Have heard that for years because I bought a smith machine 24 years ago….guess what quiets them down….warming up and repping 315 on free weight bench.

The facts about my own old school smith is this…it’s HARDER than free weights due to the friction of the tube dragging on the support. I get lazy and don’t oil the support/guides and everything feels heavy. There are no bearing on it.

Squats on my smith are much tougher than free weights, more or less resembles a hack squat in how it reduces low back and rear end emphasis, reducing the poundage ….and the drag factors in too. Smith might be 305x4-5 reps while 405 for the same free weights. Just how it is for my machine.

But you already know how to bench & squat - it's a bit diff. Some people want to learn "proper" form of bench, squat & even DL in a smith machine, and some never switch over to do it with a free bb.

And oil your smith machine. :P

[EliKoehn]

Word of advice: if anyone says one training tool is “better” than another, or throws in some BS “stabilizer” argument that they cannot quantify, then congratulations! You know you can immediately stop listening to them because they haven’t a clue..

In F5 you’re already doing a back squat which is infinitely better than a front squat by any measure (no, front squats aren’t “more quad”) and doing RDLs. Plus, a lot of people do not want to squat 3x a week. Crazy, I know…

Lol

[MyEgoProblem]

I know cardio isn't popular here, but it's the same trick manufacturers use for the calorie counter on their treadmills, bikes and ellipticals to make theirs popular. Each company keeps increasing the meter until people all think they're burning 2,000 cals during a 25 minute session.



But you already know how to bench & squat - it's a bit diff. Some people want to learn "proper" form of bench, squat & even DL in a smith machine, and some never switch over to do it with a free bb.

And oil your smith machine. :P

Boom!

[coachcalande]

Boom!

Someone recommended coconut oil….no idea.

[BeginnerGainz]

Lol

Starting strength forum is that way ======>

But you already know how to bench & squat - it's a bit diff. Some people want to learn "proper" form of bench, squat & even DL in a smith machine, and some never switch over to do it with a free bb.

I’m other words, and I’ve said this to death, is do different variations. When you stall on one, cycle it out and climb the strength ladder on another. Then rinse and repeat.

[EliKoehn]

I’ve seen quite few people try to overload a leg press and move the sled a couple inches. Very few actually get quads-to-chest-without-their-ass-coming-off-the-seat deep. Especially with a significant load.

In F5 you’re already doing a back squat which is infinitely better than a front squat by any measure (no, front squats aren’t “more quad”) and doing RDLs. Plus, a lot of people do not want to squat 3x a week. Crazy, I know…



People REALLY don’t like to admit this, but is great for building an overall stronger set of legs, when done correctly and not bastardized like some twinks do. It is still a compound. The quads extend the knee and they are doing the most work but the glutes are still lengthened under load. Hamstrings and calves still for stability (even though most of the stability is built in), you still have to brace the core…

Word of advice: if anyone says one training tool is “better” than another, or throws in some BS “stabilizer” argument that they cannot quantify, then congratulations! You know you can immediately stop listening to them because they haven’t a clue..

Yeah, you just point-blank tripped over your own accusation. Not my fault.

[TheShadowMan]

Being front loaded alone is reason enough to nail quads more than back squats do. It's hip dominant, the glutes move back, a tendency of forward lean instead of an upright lean like front squats provide. Still a great squat, but it's a tool for a different job - i've tried stance variants and while close actually does bring more quad into the mix, the back squat doesn't begin with inherent quad specificity like the front squat does. And it's good that it doesn't, because it's nice to have a squat with some carryover into hip health and development. But to think that a hip dominant lift can also be quad dominant is silly.

[MyEgoProblem]

Being front loaded alone is reason enough to nail quads more than back squats do. It's hip dominant, the glutes move back, a tendency of forward lean instead of an upright lean like front squats provide. Still a great squat, but it's a tool for a different job - i've tried stance variants and while close actually does bring more quad into the mix, the back squat doesn't begin with inherent quad specificity like the front squat does. And it's good that it doesn't, because it's nice to have a squat with some carryover into hip health and development. But to think that a hip dominant lift can also be quad dominant is silly.

That's not entirely true tho is it.

What the anterior load of a front squat does (by way of a more vertical torso) is remove recruitment of the pc, NOT increase recruitment of the quads, and push the limiting factor to the upper back. *1

Which funnily enough can be done the same with a hibar squat by pushing your knee further forward.

A front squat and hibar squat elicit the same response from the quads (statistically insignificant differences) and this is just how it is..

the real difference in the pc vs upper mid back and the subsequent loads used. So in this regard. Certainly its s tool for s different job. (athlete response depending)

*1. The exact same way that incline doesn't increase upper pec, it just removes the ability of the lower pecs to be recruited and has the shoulders as the bigger limiting factor.

[BeginnerGainz]

The final word I’ll say on the subject of quad recruitment in different types of squat is this:

If you want “more quad” you have to get a longer moment arm at the knees than the hips.

And no, you do not have to choke yourself with a bar to do that, as the late John Meadows once opined.

[TheShadowMan]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25630691/

[TAWS6]

https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle...s-for-big-legs

I feel that I agree with this crazy bastard most of the time. ^^^