AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[mituandrei]

if im a hardgainer should i do the cardio+abs on rest days ?

[mituandrei]

and why shouldn t we look at out daily macros

[nightanole]

if im a hardgainer should i do the cardio+abs on rest days ?

Doesnt matter. The only thing a hard gainer needs is to be a consistent eater. You can go nutts on the cardio if you want, even the recommended 3x10k jogs per week will only offset 1500 cals per week.

[nightanole]

and why shouldn t we look at out daily macros

Because hard gainers will eat 3500 cals one day, and the next day 1000 cals, or 3500 cals sat/sun, and 1000 cals mon/tues. At the end of the week, the total will still only average 1800-2200 cals per day, which is below the allpro starting cutting diet.

[polivoks]

Box squats 90kg,
bench stays novice, you never switch back and forth.

"a plate" should be 20kg, the same as what the bar weighs. You might be able to do 25kg, again this is just practice with light weight to get the lift down, so if you got 20's, go with 20's.

OK, done heavy day yesterday (tuesday), it was bit challenging but managed it, usually heavy is on monday but since i was on music festival over the weekend took extra day to recover lost sleep and diet.

Push presses i done after SDLD and managed to get 3 reps.
Is that normal on my stats or should i move them as accessory later.. after calf raises for example?

On pendlay rows with plate im confused with finger holding a plate.. do i place plate on floor after finishing a rep or do i hold plate in hands whole time and just take 5-10 sec beetween reps when preparing to hit my chest?

Also think i strained my neck on finishing squat reps so now planing to do medium day on friday if not better on thursday, and easy day maybe on next monday. Does that make any sense or should i aim to finish this 8 rep week on saturday with easy day?

[nightanole]

OK, done heavy day yesterday (tuesday), it was bit challenging but managed it, usually heavy is on monday but since i was on music festival over the weekend took extra day to recover lost sleep and diet.

Push presses i done after SDLD and managed to get 3 reps.
Is that normal on my stats or should i move them as accessory later.. after calf raises for example?

On pendlay rows with plate im confused with finger holding a plate.. do i place plate on floor after finishing a rep or do i hold plate in hands whole time and just take 5-10 sec beetween reps when preparing to hit my chest?

Also think i strained my neck on finishing squat reps so now planing to do medium day on friday if not better on thursday, and easy day maybe on next monday. Does that make any sense or should i aim to finish this 8 rep week on saturday with easy day?

Might want to make this a reset week...

Push press looks good as is, they can be done before curls/calf if you want.

The pendlay is with a bar bell, so i dont know what finger holding is. You put a 20kg on each side of a 20kg bar, now it looks like you are ready to deadlift it, but you just row it and dead drop it after you hit your chest.

As for your neck thing, do you wonder if your head moves during the lift? You dont want to be looking forward or up, you want to be looking slightly down, to keep a neutral head.

[polivoks]

Might want to make this a reset week...

Push press looks good as is, they can be done before curls/calf if you want.

The pendlay is with a bar bell, so i dont know what finger holding is. You put a 20kg on each side of a 20kg bar, now it looks like you are ready to deadlift it, but you just row it and dead drop it after you hit your chest.

As for your neck thing, do you wonder if your head moves during the lift? You dont want to be looking forward or up, you want to be looking slightly down, to keep a neutral head.

OK, so if do rest this week next i start again with 8 reps or 9 rep?
If i could make it to do this friday workout and then again next monday, should do friday heavy/medium/easy?

Following weekends wont be any going out or drinking and will be heading to sleep earlier, only on July had some night events to attend.

Pendlay is clear now, thought it had to be done only with plate and no barbell lol

On squats usually i try to keep head neutral but this time probably have moved it more then and looked up trying to push up on finishing 90kg reps.

[nightanole]

OK, so if do rest this week next i start again with 8 reps or 9 rep?
If i could make it to do this friday workout and then again next monday, should do friday heavy/medium/easy?

Following weekends wont be any going out or drinking and will be heading to sleep earlier, only on July had some night events to attend.

Pendlay is clear now, thought it had to be done only with plate and no barbell lol

On squats usually i try to keep head neutral but this time probably have moved it more then and looked up trying to push up on finishing 90kg reps.

I would do this week as normal, but do warmup only squats, then next week repeat 8 rep week.

And yes looking up is a bad habit, to the point some people are given a tennis ball to hold under their chin to break the habit.

[polivoks]

I would do this week as normal, but do warmup only squats, then next week repeat 8 rep week.

And yes looking up is a bad habit, to the point some people are given a tennis ball to hold under their chin to break the habit.

Allright, might even try the tennis ball on hard days just in case.

So if i go only this friday i do easy day?

Also its big heatwave in my country for most of this month,
gym is in the rooftop floor and its like sauna there mostly if dont get in early morning,
its bit of extra hard to concentrate.

So was kind of thinking maybe just keeping routine on 2 times per week until weather cools off, and repeat whole cycle in september.
What would be solution for going about this, just on keeping my current strength on this routine?
Could i do one day outside like only bodyweight in park gym or something?

[nightanole]

Allright, might even try the tennis ball on hard days just in case.

So if i go only this friday i do easy day?

Also its big heatwave in my country for most of this month,
gym is in the rooftop floor and its like sauna there mostly if dont get in early morning,
its bit of extra hard to concentrate.

So was kind of thinking maybe just keeping routine on 2 times per week until weather cools off, and repeat whole cycle in september.
What would be solution for going about this, just on keeping my current strength on this routine?
Could i do one day outside like only bodyweight in park gym or something?

1 heavy a week is more than enough to maintain.

So if you just wanted to survive, you could just do the main lift and its accessory, each day, and break up the program into like 3-4 15min sessions.

[bjw11180]

Another question, if I may:

Regarding the discussion about "dogging" reps, is it the case that we should always be going for maximal bar speed, i.e. pushing/pulling as hard as possible while maintaining control? I admit that I don't typically do this...I wouldn't say that I purposely go slower than necessary to "increase time under tension" or anything like that, but I do try to focus on moving through the ROM in a controlled manner, rather than exploding. Is this always wrong?

Hi night -- I think you might've missed the quoted post from the previous page. Think it got lost in a rapid flurry of questions. Would be interested in your advice if possible. Thanks.

[nightanole]

Hi night -- I think you might've missed the quoted post from the previous page. Think it got lost in a rapid flurry of questions. Would be interested in your advice if possible. Thanks.

Wut? All reps should with max bar speed in mind. Yes you shouldnt go nuts and lose control/form. As i stated a few times, if you slow down the bar speed to get more reps in, you dogged the weight. That act will make for poor cns patterns. When the lifter adds weight, bare speed will drop a lot more vs the the lifter that pushes hard. If bar speed is not fast enough, you will get stuck at transition points in the lift, and miss the rep. These points are a few inches above the chest in the bench, and just above parallel on the squat, as examples. On a pendlay row or deadlift, if you are not 100% breaking off the floor, you will not have enough momentum at lockout, and will end up hitching or not hitting your chest.

I guess i could compare it to sprinting.

Instead of going all out on the 100m dash, instead you get a slower 100m time, but dash 150m(because otherwise you would collapse trying to run 150m at full speed). Which is going to improve your 100m dash?

In the case of natty lifting, the ONLY thing you need to worry about is increasing your 1rm. That is the ONLY thing that will increase your muscle size. So every rep should be treated like you are going for a 1 rep max.

If you read that article on quality reps, the guy even says "The final rep on any max set, has the same bar speed as an actual 1 rep max".

So if on test day you video your final rep on squats, and "just made it", it should look the same ,and have the same bar speed, as if you did 150% of your working weight for 1 rep. Now for the "dogger" that will be an impossible feat, odds are they might get pinned with only 120-125%, and that weight is only 2 cycles away.


And for anyone else reading this and doing allpro, please dont go out and put 125-150% on the bar and goto town. You risk hurting yourself because even though you are strong enough, you are only strong in the 8-12 rep range. The 5 reppers might be able to do a 1 rep max test and not get hurt, but all pro'rs really shouldnt be testing anything lower than a triple, which is 90% of your 1rm.

[sqal]

I've been doing some reading and from what I gathered, you need at least 10 sets per muscle group (20 being optimal) per week. This workout seems to only be about 6 sets per week. I've been doing strength training with 10 sets of 5 for Monday and 5x5 for other days. Splitting upper body and lower body. Is the all-pro pretty much a step down from my current workout? I like that I could do squats and dead lifts every workout because I really suck at those.

I did this workout today, and felt like I could've done a whole lot more in terms of sets. Also, I never seem to feel the dead lifts in my legs. I feel like it's working out my back more than anything. I usually don't really feel it my legs until the 3rd or 4th set. Is this just a problem with form?

Also, if I do this workout can I do it every second day? And would I just remove another 10% weight?

When I bench press, where should I be feeling the burn? I only feel it in my shoulders when I do it, and when i put my grip closer I feel it more in the back arm muscle, I think it's called triceps. I never feel it in my chest but that could be because I don't really have chest muscles yet.

Say I complete this workout and feel like doing more, can I? I know you advise others to add more isolation work once they feel they need to, but what about just adding say 2 to 3 sets of each exercise? I have a bunch of extra time on my hands and feel like working out 2-3 hours may be more beneficial to me than a 45 minute workout. Am I wrong with thinking more sets equals better hypertrophy?

I've been eating at a caloric surplus and have gained about 3 lbs in the last 3 or 4 weeks so I think I am making progress in my strength training but I've read that for better muscle development a higher rep range is better, so I'm trying out this workout for a while.

I'm sorry for all the questions, I may have already asked some of them weeks ago, but I find navigating this site to be a pain in the ass. It took me 20 minutes just to get to find a log in screen because the register link is broken.

Regards,

sq

[nightanole]

I've been doing some reading and from what I gathered, you need at least 10 sets per muscle group (20 being optimal) per week. This workout seems to only be about 6 sets per week. I've been doing strength training with 10 sets of 5 for Monday and 5x5 for other days. Splitting upper body and lower body. Is the all-pro pretty much a step down from my current workout? I like that I could do squats and dead lifts every workout because I really suck at those.

I did this workout today, and felt like I could've done a whole lot more in terms of sets. Also, I never seem to feel the dead lifts in my legs. I feel like it's working out my back more than anything. I usually don't really feel it my legs until the 3rd or 4th set. Is this just a problem with form?

Also, if I do this workout can I do it every second day? And would I just remove another 10% weight?

When I bench press, where should I be feeling the burn? I only feel it in my shoulders when I do it, and when i put my grip closer I feel it more in the back arm muscle, I think it's called triceps. I never feel it in my chest but that could be because I don't really have chest muscles yet.

Say I complete this workout and feel like doing more, can I? I know you advise others to add more isolation work once they feel they need to, but what about just adding say 2 to 3 sets of each exercise? I have a bunch of extra time on my hands and feel like working out 2-3 hours may be more beneficial to me than a 45 minute workout. Am I wrong with thinking more sets equals better hypertrophy?

I've been eating at a caloric surplus and have gained about 3 lbs in the last 3 or 4 weeks so I think I am making progress in my strength training but I've read that for better muscle development a higher rep range is better, so I'm trying out this workout for a while.

I'm sorry for all the questions, I may have already asked some of them weeks ago, but I find navigating this site to be a pain in the ass. It took me 20 minutes just to get to find a log in screen because the register link is broken.

Regards,

sq

Dont have much time...

You are correct about the 10-20 sets, however remember that number is also 10 sets for n00b and 20 for advanced. Allpro has 4 sets per muscle group per workout, so thats 12 per week. And after a while you get to add another 2 accessories, incase you need more volume etc.

And yes you should feel like superman till week 10, then things get harry and take real effort. This is a fatigue buildup routine, you are not allowed to recover and feel fresh.

Um bench should be done up to competition wide, but i recommend pinkies on the 810mm rings or closer.

The starting diet is 100g of fats/protein and 200-300g of carbs. Most need to cut to get to 13%, then slow bulk. There are a few underweight folk that are running the program on a bulk from the get go, but they are rare. I feel your 50lb per year bulk is a bit unreasonable...

Rule of thumb is bulk at 1/4-1/3 the rate you can cut at without your lifts going to crap. So at 4lbs per month, can you cut at 12-16?

[mituandrei]

if i dont have any weights on the bar how do i increase 10% of the weight?
I multiply 10% with the bar ?
the bar has 15kg

[nightanole]

if i dont have any weights on the bar how do i increase 10% of the weight?
I multiply 10% with the bar ?
the bar has 15kg

Yup. 15kg bar, so min 1.5kg bump. Odds are you could do 20kg next cycle or at least 17.5kg if you have 1.25kg plates. 10% is the min bump for the pattern to work, most bump a lot more as the improve form. If you are a light weight, you might start off benching a 20kg bar, and 6 cycles later be benching the 20kg bar with 20kg plates on it, for a total of 60kg.

[mituandrei]

Thanks
Another question
Should i feel the sldl s in my legs too? or just the lower back

[sqal]

My calorie surplus has only been about 400 calories, which was recommended on some bodybuilding site. I was always a skinny guy, I mean real skinny. I started bulking a few years ago but I didn't take the working out as seriously as I do now. I'm 5'9 at 169lbs right now, I used to be about 120. I did a quick body fat percentage and it was 25%, although if I probably measured my arms and all that it might be higher.

My rational for keeping in a bulk is so that any 'newbie gains' will not be wasted because I'm on a cut to lose the gut. My main goal is to get my arms to be a normal size, which actually may be impossible because they are about the size of a tiny girls.

This is the first time I'm hearing about this rule of thumb though. I've read that the optimal amount that I can gain would be about a lb of muscle per week, which I assumed would be about 2lbs a week with fat? I read that a cut should only be about a lb a week, so my bulk would be a lb a month? That would be depressing. I haven't been weighing myself everyday so there may be some error in my lb a week gains estimate. I actually had thought I gained 5 lbs in those 3 weeks but I weighed myself after that post and it was only 3 lbs, so I edited that in. I completely stopped drinking soda (about 8-10 a day) 2 weeks ago and have been drinking quite a lot of water so it could possibly be water weight.


The only thing I haven't been tracking is my carbs so I'll have to start looking into what those are and how much I've actually been consuming.

Now I'm not sure if I should even be bulking since a lb/month probably isn't noticeable in the arms at all until 3-4 years training.

An off topic question I have which you may not be able to answer is do the gains from testosterone injections go away after you stop using them? This is the one thing that's keeping me from trying them. I don't wan't to get trapped in some expensive habit that I can't stop.

[nightanole]

Thanks
Another question
Should i feel the sldl s in my legs too? or just the lower back

Its a hamstring stretch exercise since the squat does not fully extend them. You should keep a neutral back the entire time.

[nightanole]

My calorie surplus has only been about 400 calories, which was recommended on some bodybuilding site. I was always a skinny guy, I mean real skinny. I started bulking a few years ago but I didn't take the working out as seriously as I do now. I'm 5'9 at 169lbs right now, I used to be about 120. I did a quick body fat percentage and it was 25%, although if I probably measured my arms and all that it might be higher.

My rational for keeping in a bulk is so that any 'newbie gains' will not be wasted because I'm on a cut to lose the gut. My main goal is to get my arms to be a normal size, which actually may be impossible because they are about the size of a tiny girls.

This is the first time I'm hearing about this rule of thumb though. I've read that the optimal amount that I can gain would be about a lb of muscle per week, which I assumed would be about 2lbs a week with fat? I read that a cut should only be about a lb a week, so my bulk would be a lb a month? That would be depressing. I haven't been weighing myself everyday so there may be some error in my lb a week gains estimate. I actually had thought I gained 5 lbs in those 3 weeks but I weighed myself after that post and it was only 3 lbs, so I edited that in. I completely stopped drinking soda (about 8-10 a day) 2 weeks ago and have been drinking quite a lot of water so it could possibly be water weight.


The only thing I haven't been tracking is my carbs so I'll have to start looking into what those are and how much I've actually been consuming.

Now I'm not sure if I should even be bulking since a lb/month probably isn't noticeable in the arms at all until 3-4 years training.

An off topic question I have which you may not be able to answer is do the gains from testosterone injections go away after you stop using them? This is the one thing that's keeping me from trying them. I don't wan't to get trapped in some expensive habit that I can't stop.

Oh boy you got some readin to do!

Rule of thumb is bulk at 1/4-1/3 the rate you can cut at without your lifts going to crap.

on a good bulk 1/4-1/3 of the weight will be fat. on a cut while in the lower teens of body fat would be the opposite, 1lb of muscle loss per 3-4lbs of fat.

While you are in the upper teens/twenties, you can bulk just fine on your beer gut, even if skinny fat.

And now for the horror.
The best n00bs after a year of good lifting will have a BMI of 25 @ 13%
2 years later BMI of 26
decade later BMI of 27

Basically you are only going to put on about 25lbs more than a bmi 24, over a lifetime of lifting, with half your gains in the first 18 months.

[espo324]

Hey night, so I'm on cycle 4 right now of this program and it's been great so far. I was just wondering I'm 6'2 and 200 pounds and I can barely do 135lb 5 times on bench. I think my bodyfat percentage is around 30% right now... Would you recommend a bulk or a cut? I'm just wondering because I feel like if I bulk, I'll put on EVEN MORE fat, which i don't want, but if i cut, I won't gain any muscle and just be weak or even weaker... What do you think I should do?

Thanks

[nightanole]

Hey night, so I'm on cycle 4 right now of this program and it's been great so far. I was just wondering I'm 6'2 and 200 pounds and I can barely do 135lb 5 times on bench. I think my bodyfat percentage is around 30% right now... Would you recommend a bulk or a cut? I'm just wondering because I feel like if I bulk, I'll put on EVEN MORE fat, which i don't want, but if i cut, I won't gain any muscle and just be weak or even weaker... What do you think I should do?

Thanks

Id cut to 180 and then slow bulk to 200 again. As long as you are over 15% you should be able to cut with zero performance loss.

And 135 for 5 seems about right unfortunately. If you do the math, even at 180, you would be about 15%, which still leaves you a bit over fat and a bit under weight. Extending the model out, it should be possible to get to 205lbs 16%, get a 185 for 10 bench, and then cut down to 185-190lbs, while mantaining those lifting numbers. Odds are this total process will take 6-9 months.

[espo324]

Id cut to 180 and then slow bulk to 200 again. As long as you are over 15% you should be able to cut with zero performance loss.

And 135 for 5 seems about right unfortunately. If you do the math, even at 180, you would be about 15%, which still leaves you a bit over fat and a bit under weight. Extending the model out, it should be possible to get to 205lbs 16%, get a 185 for 10 bench, and then cut down to 185-190lbs, while mantaining those lifting numbers. Odds are this total process will take 6-9 months.

Okay, thank you.. Is there anyway doing this program that I can just cut weight till I have around 5-10% body fat? I know I probably won't be able to make crazy gains but I really need to get rid of this fat.. I'm 21 years old, I ran XC and Distance Track in highschool and was 6'2 150ish. I was only a little weaker than i am now... it's so sad.

[nightanole]

Okay, thank you.. Is there anyway doing this program that I can just cut weight till I have around 5-10% body fat? I know I probably won't be able to make crazy gains but I really need to get rid of this fat.. I'm 21 years old, I ran XC and Distance Track in highschool and was 6'2 150ish. I was only a little weaker than i am now... it's so sad.

You can run this program just fine till 13%/flex abs. Then its either try to maintain and get to 10%, or bulk and progress.

[espo324]

You can run this program just fine till 13%/flex abs. Then its either try to maintain and get to 10%, or bulk and progress.

By maintain you mean just keep doing the 3 days a week while eating in a caloric deficit and not go up in weight but just stay on a repeated cycle?

[espo324]

Also, when getting to 10% body fat, where should I go from there? Do you have a program that you would recommend? Sorry for asking so many questions, thank you for answering them

[nightanole]

By maintain you mean just keep doing the 3 days a week while eating in a caloric deficit and not go up in weight but just stay on a repeated cycle?

Yup. The canary in the coal mine is 10 rep week. If you are not missing reps that week, each cycle, you are not cutting so deep that performance is affected.

[nightanole]

Also, when getting to 10% body fat, where should I go from there? Do you have a program that you would recommend? Sorry for asking so many questions, thank you for answering them

Might want to read up on what 10% really is. "athletic" for team sports starts at 18%, some can have relaxed abs as early as 13%.

Anyway as to 10%, that will require weighing your food, not just precision eye balling it. And you can run any program. The only difference will be progression. Progression will be slowed, so on allpro bumps might not happen till 2-3 cycles. On 3x5 it might mean weekly bumps instead of per session. And it just means 2 months of bulking 4lbs and then 2 weeks of cutting 2-3lbs, rinse repeat.

[espo324]

Okay thank you, one more thing; I'm assuming this has been stated before and you've gotten this question a million times.. But at the end of this cycle, I can increase the weight more than 10%, right? currently some of my lifts are just too easy right now, or should I just follow the 10% and stick to the rules?

[nightanole]

Okay thank you, one more thing; I'm assuming this has been stated before and you've gotten this question a million times.. But at the end of this cycle, I can increase the weight more than 10%, right? currently some of my lifts are just too easy right now, or should I just follow the 10% and stick to the rules?

Everyone feels like superman first cycle till 10-11 rep weeks.

If test day felt real easy, you can bump more than 10%. On test weeks light day, you can try out your new above 10% weight for 1 set, if you get in 10 reps, you are gold for next cycle.