"Fierce 5" Comprehensive Program List

[Farley1324]

Well I suppose I was paying $110.00 an hour to at least have a spotter. I was using the half rack he had me in.

But that's not really the point of my initial question which was what exercises can I sub for squats, deadlifts and leg presses to still have an effective program.

The PT isn't going to spot a 325 pound bar + lifter. The PT isn't going to jump in there in fractions of a second and grab the bar to protect you. Spotting squats doesn't work that way.

I think it is critical that people, particularly those that have prior injuries from the movement, understand how to safely squat. Relying on a (singular) person to bail you out of a 325 pound squat you ditch is not at all safe.

Half rack? So you were above safeties? That's the only truly safe way to spot a squat...nice strong metal pins/bars that will catch the bar.

Safety first guys.

[cwinsor]

The PT isn't going to spot a 325 pound bar + lifter. The PT isn't going to jump in there in fractions of a second and grab the bar to protect you. Spotting squats doesn't work that way.

I think it is critical that people, particularly those that have prior injuries from the movement, understand how to safely squat. Relying on a (singular) person to bail you out of a 325 pound squat you ditch is not at all safe.

Half rack? So you were above safeties? That's the only truly safe way to spot a squat...nice strong metal pins/bars that will catch the bar.

Safety first guys.

Well it's great to know that now...But leads me to again question why I was paying the PT...

Safeties were short 4" pins that would have required me to lean forward which was not an option in the moment.

Back to the question at hand though, any substitutions I can make?

[bob2589]

I usually do 5 mins of cardio to just get my heart rate up and get blood flowing. Then before any compound lift I would warm up with the bar for 8-10 reps then go to 50% of my working weight and do about 5 reps then start my working sets.

I think I was most likely also going too heavy on the tricep extensions because I never resetted since I didn't miss any reps but I should still have stepped back occasionally and built back up.

As my lifts progressed I think my method didn't cut it anymore if you have any suggestions I'd really appreciate it thank you.

You might want to add some band pull aparts and pass throughs to your warm up, they have really helped me. Also, make sure you are properly warming up your elbows when you heal up. I like to massage the lower tricep just above the elbow on a knurled bar and then do some stretches with a band. I got them from a video on reducing elbow/wrist pain on the front squat but have found they carry over.

Here you go - https://youtu.be/uwT3G6c8fXE

[bob2589]

Well it's great to know that now...But leads me to again question why I was paying the PT...

Safeties were short 4" pins that would have required me to lean forward which was not an option in the moment.

Back to the question at hand though, any substitutions I can make?

I wouldn't be confident suggesting subs with your injury history and doubt anyone but a qualified physician would be. Have you been told not to squat after your previous back injury?

[cwinsor]

I wouldn't be confident suggesting subs with your injury history and doubt anyone but a qualified physician would be. Have you been told not to squat after your previous back injury?

It's the physiotherapist I am seeing that has recommended against performing them due to lingering back problems from before. They didn't suggest alternates though, just recommended skipping entireley.

[Derem]

The Novice Full Body Program

Workout A
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Pendlay Rows 3x8
Face Pulls 3x10
Calf raises 2x15/Tricep pressdowns 2x10 Superset

Workout B
Front Squat 3x5
Overhead Press 3x5
Romanian Deadlift 3x8
Lat Pulldowns 3x8 (any grip)
Ab work 2x15/Curls 2x10 Superset (I don’t care what ab work you do)

You will be working out 3 nonconsecutive days a week and alternating between workouts A & B. Ex: Mon-A, Tues-Rest, Wed-B, Thur-Rest, Fri-A, Sat-Rest, Sun-Rest, Mon-B…etc. Each week you’ll add 5 lbs to all of your upper body lifts* and 10lbs to all of your lower body lifts.

*Reverse flies will increase 5lbs per month, leg curls (if subbed) will increase 5lbs per week and ab work increases in reps (try adding a few reps each week.) If you are unable to increase weight in these increments due to equipment limitations then, for that exercise only, increase weight every other week. For the exercises in the 5 rep range add 1 rep per set during the weeks you aren’t increasing weight. For exercises in the 8-15 range add 2 reps per set during weeks you aren’t increasing weight.

This is a question I'm repeatedly asked so here is a progression example:
Monday-Squat-200, Bench-150
Wednesday-Romanian Deadlift-200, OHP-100
Friday-Squat-200, Bench-150
Weekend of rest
Monday-Romanian Deadlift-210, OHP-105
Wednesday-Squat-210, Bench-155
Friday-Romanian Deadlift-210, OHP-105

[Click to return to top]

Just in quick question

Is it ok if I do abwork after the day at the gym? (I go through everything but just do the abwork at home on that same day)

[MyEgoProblem]

Just in quick question

Is it ok if I do abwork after the day at the gym? (I go through everything but just do the abwork at home on that same day)

Yup.. I do my abs after the gym (usually a few hours later) with a wheel I keep under the bed lol.

[Derem]

Yup.. I do my abs after the gym (usually a few hours later) with a wheel I keep under the bed lol.

Could I do a full Ab workout that day or would that be overtraining?

[MyEgoProblem]

Could I do a full Ab workout that day or would that be overtraining?

If a full Ab workout ends up being harder than 3x AMRAP for rollouts, I'll wager it's not even close :-D . It's likely not worth the time...30 reps of loaded Ab work twice a week should be more than enough.

But no.. Lol. Not "overtraining" nor "overreaching".. Or anything like that.

[pepsicola123]

Being from europe, is it O.K to add 2.5KG (i5.5lbs) and 5kg (11lbs) instead of 5/10lbs for the FB novice program? Is it going to change much?

[Farley1324]

Being from europe, is it O.K to add 2.5KG (5.5lbs) and 5kg (11lbs) instead of 5/10lbs for the FB novice program?

Yes.

[rlefebvr]

I usually do 5 mins of cardio to just get my heart rate up and get blood flowing. Then before any compound lift I would warm up with the bar for 8-10 reps then go to 50% of my working weight and do about 5 reps then start my working sets.

I think I was most likely also going too heavy on the tricep extensions because I never resetted since I didn't miss any reps but I should still have stepped back occasionally and built back up.

As my lifts progressed I think my method didn't cut it anymore if you have any suggestions I'd really appreciate it thank you.

Doing curls or any biceps work before usually help warm up the elbow and get blood flowing into it. It is also less stressful then triceps work.

You can even do it as a super set
Just do the bicep exercise or warm up before your triceps exercise.

This usually works for me and my right elbow is really bad.

Ron

[davisj3537]

Hey All,

Looking for some guidance. I've been doing a split for the past 9 weeks while cutting and it's been a disaster. No progress on my lifts. I have however lost 36lbs and currently sit at 244 and 28% body fat. I'm planning to now start the Fierce 5 beginners full body routine.

I however have low back issues that I am currently seeing a PT for. They are recommending against squats and deadlifts and leg presses at this time. What should I be subbing for these?

If you're seeing a medical professional then that's who I'd be asking brother.

It's the physiotherapist I am seeing that has recommended against performing them due to lingering back problems from before. They didn't suggest alternates though, just recommended skipping entireley.

Until you see a more qualified physio, then that's what I'd do.

[bob2589]

A few quick ones from me -

I struggle with neck pain somewhat (which i'm seeing a PT for) - If I was to buy a neck harness to strengthen my neck, would I put this on the upper days after facepulls, or have it on rest days?

Loaded carries - Would farmers walks be inserted on lower days as a core exercise or would they impact on leg recovery too much?

[Mertcann85]

Davis, Ego or Farley whenever you have time, can you please check my DL forms? I opened the below thread at Exercises section last saturday, but no luck. I will be deloading depending on your form directions and today is the last day I can check the forums for this week due to business travel, that's why I am kinda in a rush. Sorry for bombing the forums with the same 2 posts.


"I did not like my sumo form at all. It seems like semi-conventional deadlift. I cannot go wider on stance, since my hip mobility does not allow me. And also it seems like, my hips were too high in the initial position before taking off from ground, and also I have to have more vertical lower back I guess. I will be decreasing the weight, for focusing on technique; so any advice is appreciated. Because, there is a huge difference on my stance between 100-105 and 130.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydAqBQFY7xI



RDL seems solid to me though. 8. rep is a little bit out of my control I guess. Should I go a little bit further down? (This is last set)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ibmvyx06TXc


Thanks."

[WolfRose7]

[QUOTE=Mertcann85;1489610141]Davis, Ego or Farley whenever you have time, can you please check my DL forms? I opened the below thread at Exercises section last saturday, but no luck. I will be deloading depending on your form directions and today is the last day I can check the forums for this week due to business travel, that's why I am kinda in a rush. Sorry for bombing the forums with the same 2 posts.





Bar isn't even close to your mid foot my friend, it's way out in front of you when you start the pull.
And hips definitely need to be lower, maybe you should stick to conventional if you can't get lower, but you should be able too.
Back is also rounded, but this might just be because of ^^ those issues.



This has been the most useful video for me learning to Sumo, have a watch when you can.

[cwinsor]

If you're seeing a medical professional then that's who I'd be asking brother.

Until you see a more qualified physio, then that's what I'd do.

Thanks for the feedback. How do I go about finding a more qualified Physio? It's pretty slim pickings where I live.

[Arkadij947]

When cutting, after you fail twice with the normal progression, is it ok to try a third time with micro-loading before resetting?
I've been using this method mostly with OHP and rows and managed to progress nicely so far.

[davisj3537]

A few quick ones from me -

I struggle with neck pain somewhat (which i'm seeing a PT for) - If I was to buy a neck harness to strengthen my neck, would I put this on the upper days after facepulls, or have it on rest days?

Loaded carries - Would farmers walks be inserted on lower days as a core exercise or would they impact on leg recovery too much?

In general add in physical therapy work any way you see fit. I will never complain about someone adding exercises via physiotherapist.

I personally would put farmer walks on upper, but you do as you wish. Neck harness on upper or rest day...either way brother.

Davis, Ego or Farley whenever you have time, can you please check my DL forms?

The sumo form does need some help. Your whole back is rounded and your setup needs some work. The video wolf posted is going to help. Focus on driving your knees outward right before you pull.

Thanks for the feedback. How do I go about finding a more qualified Physio? It's pretty slim pickings where I live.

It's like picking a brain surgeon. You don't go with the first one you see. Do some research on the ones in your area, read their credentials...etc. You have to work with what you have available, but you need to be well informed on what you have available so you can use those resources to your full benefit. Maybe one of them is good with hips and not so good with everything else...same concept applies with them all. I have found many specialize in something...knees, football injuries, posture, weight lifting...etc.

Unfortunately the burden rests on you.

[Derem]

Just wondering, can I try to increase the weights workout to workout? At least for some of the lifts because I definitely feel like I could hit higher weights and progress quickly for things like the bench or the front squat

Could I try having some where I increase the weight workout to workout instead of week by week until it gets to a certain point?

[bob2589]

Just wondering, can I try to increase the weights workout to workout? At least for some of the lifts because I definitely feel like I could hit higher weights and progress quickly for things like the bench or the front squat

Could I try having some where I increase the weight workout to workout instead of week by week until it gets to a certain point?

Not on this program, otherwise it would have been written that way.

You may feel like you can progress quicker right now but that wont always be the case, and when you hit that point you will be glad you put in the groundwork. Be thankful for the easy progression and lack of resets while it lasts!

[davisj3537]

Just wondering, can I try to increase the weights workout to workout? At least for some of the lifts because I definitely feel like I could hit higher weights and progress quickly for things like the bench or the front squat

Could I try having some where I increase the weight workout to workout instead of week by week until it gets to a certain point?

If you had 10 years of lifting experience, were coming back from a layoff from lifting and didn't need to learn the core lifts I would say yes. This isn't the case. Aggressively increasing weight will eat you alive both physically and mentally in ways you can't comprehend brother. Dialing in good form and motor patterns during this time will build the foundation for your entire lifting career. Don't short change yourself.

[Derem]

If you had 10 years of lifting experience, were coming back from a layoff from lifting and didn't need to learn the core lifts I would say yes. This isn't the case. Aggressively increasing weight will eat you alive both physically and mentally in ways you can't comprehend brother. Dialing in good form and motor patterns during this time will build the foundation for your entire lifting career. Don't short change yourself.

i understand that, and i know its a really good program and i should follow it as its written. but i think i started too light on some of the excercises. for example i think i started too light for the bench press (obviously im a beginner so my numbers aren't high at all) but i started out at 65 pounds but the other day because i thought my max was a lot lower than it was (well tbf it's still really low lol) but i did 10 reps of 100 without feeling fatigued at all (i definately could have done more)

the program says start out at 80-85% if ur max so could i start out at 75-80 pounds for the bench press instead, and then keep the progression as it's supposed to be?

i definately don't plan on trying to start to high on weights i stayed pretty conservative going to 70-75% for most of the lifts instead of 85%

also one thing though, the lowest plates go here is to 2.5kg so how do i make 5 pound jumps for my arm excercises?

[MyEgoProblem]

i understand that, and i know its a really good program and i should follow it as its written. but i think i started too light on some of the excercises. for example i think i started too light for the bench press (obviously im a beginner so my numbers aren't high at all) but i started out at 65 pounds but the other day because i thought my max was a lot lower than it was (well tbf it's still really low lol) but i did 10 reps of 100 without feeling fatigued at all (i definately could have done more)

the program says start out at 80-85% if ur max so could i start out at 75-80 pounds for the bench press instead, and then keep the progression as it's supposed to be?

i definately don't plan on trying to start to high on weights i stayed pretty conservative going to 70-75% for most of the lifts instead of 85%

also one thing though, the lowest plates go here is to 2.5kg so how do i make 5 pound jumps for my arm excercises?

It's surprising how well submaximal lifting works!
Crisp, clean, repetition builds speed, power and strength...

Currently I'm working with 55-75% of my 1rep and hitting estimated 1rep maxes (legit MAXS aren't necessary at all) via calculators that have historically been very accurate for me..

Always training ALL OUT is not required, nor is it actually beneficial. Regardless of what the Bro's and magazines say. You will ramp up to higher intensities soon enough..

But this is just advice, you do you.

[davisj3537]

i understand that, and i know its a really good program and i should follow it as its written. but i think i started too light on some of the excercises. for example i think i started too light for the bench press (obviously im a beginner so my numbers aren't high at all) but i started out at 65 pounds but the other day because i thought my max was a lot lower than it was (well tbf it's still really low lol) but i did 10 reps of 100 without feeling fatigued at all (i definately could have done more)

the program says start out at 80-85% if ur max so could i start out at 75-80 pounds for the bench press instead, and then keep the progression as it's supposed to be?

i definately don't plan on trying to start to high on weights i stayed pretty conservative going to 70-75% for most of the lifts instead of 85%

also one thing though, the lowest plates go here is to 2.5kg so how do i make 5 pound jumps for my arm excercises?

Then take the big jump to 75-80% all at once and stay there. Just don't do workout to workout increases.

[pepsicola123]

Then take the big jump to 75-80% all at once and stay there. Just don't do workout to workout increases.

Can I run the Novice full body program on monday, thursday and saturday?

[WolfRose7]

Can I run the Novice full body program on monday, thursday and saturday?

yes. just count thursday as day 1 of the week

[Buckeyes2199]

Which program do you think would benefit me more? My current 1rm are bench: 215, squat: 315, and deadlift: 385 or so. I'm stuck trying to decide between the novice and intermediate program.

[davisj3537]

Which program do you think would benefit me more? My current 1rm are bench: 215, squat: 315, and deadlift: 385 or so. I'm stuck trying to decide between the novice and intermediate program.

Intermediate

[Rambonakki]

In the U/L & LU/LPP should I do the reset protocol while on a cut also? Isn't that counterproductive considering that you should try to maintain as much muscle mass as possible while dieting?