Equipment Crew- Part III

[daniel327]

I'd stop overthinking it and carry on benching

The Occam's razor approach. I like it.

It's not that easy on the collegiate racks, here's a photo:

OK. In that case, see post #3869.

[twodog]

OK. In that case, see post #3869.

I'm in full agreement with post #3869, especially since I just learned to adapt, lol.

[BloodType3R]

Ahh so, we've combined two of the most debated equipment usages into one topic, on the previous page...

Does using a belt really require less core activation? I personally do not think so. I think that it requires different muscular activation than going beltless does. Ask any intermediate how sore their abs are after their first time squatting with a belt. As a generalization, I believe that belted compound lifts will lead to increased abdominal and oblique output but possibly decreased spinal erector involvement. You also have to take into account the increased work capacity that a belt can offer. If you are able to get one or two more reps, then that small decrease in lower back involvement may be nullified, all while increasing the work performed by the remaining entirety of your body and possibly even your anterior core musculature.
I went beltless for a long time, and while I don't regret it, I saw the biggest advances in strength after adding it. I don't think beginners should be belting up but I do believe that the call should be made in the early to mid intermediate stages.

Straps.. There is no argument here. Straps do lessen involvement of gripping musculature. Can this be used in a beneficial manner? Absolutely but you better have a good reason and fully understand that reason. If in doubt or you just hear yourself making excuses, go strapless. I personally believe that they have no place in a beginner's routine.. ever. I would hesitate to suggest usage of straps to an intermediate for anything other than heavy or overloaded assistance work such as rack pulls, RDL's, shrugs, and BB rows, but even then you may be missing out on valuable grip training. There is no greater grip strengthening exercise than deadlifts, imo. Until you get into advanced territory, strapping up on deadlifts is robbing you of exercise economy. Sure you could do a bunch of supplementary grip work to make up for the work lost in strapped deadlifts.. or you could just do the deadlifts and be done with it.......


These are just my personal opinions. Please don't take offense if my views differ from yours. I'm not attempting to talk down to anyone.. just offering my view.

[dumb.bell]

Straps.. There is no argument here. Straps do lessen involvement of gripping musculature. Can this be used in a beneficial manner? Absolutely but you better have a good reason and fully understand that reason. If in doubt or you just hear yourself making excuses, go strapless. I personally believe that they have no place in a beginner's routine.. ever. I would hesitate to suggest usage of straps to an intermediate for anything other than heavy or overloaded assistance work such as rack pulls, RDL's, shrugs, and BB rows, but even then you may be missing out on valuable grip training. There is no greater grip strengthening exercise than deadlifts, imo. Until you get into advanced territory, strapping up on deadlifts is robbing you of exercise economy. Sure you could do a bunch of supplementary grip work to make up for the work lost in strapped deadlifts.. or you could just do the deadlifts and be done with it.......

I don't disagree with anything you've said, assuming the lifter has an interest in increasing grip strength.

Personally, I have no interest in increasing grip strength. If it is the weak link in a lift and prevents me from fully developing other muscles, I'd rather just take it out of the equation with straps.

This opinion is coming from someone who apparently has decent genetics for grip strength. I've never failed a lift (single) because of my grip and I don't seem to be able to lift more weight with the straps than without (but I can do more reps). If this weren't the case, I might view this topic differently.

[BloodType3R]

...Can this be used in a beneficial manner? Absolutely but you better have a good reason and fully understand that reason.

I don't disagree with anything you've said, assuming the lifter has an interest in increasing grip strength.

Personally, I have no interest in increasing grip strength. If it is the weak link in a lift and prevents me from fully developing other muscles, I'd rather just take it out of the equation with straps.

No argument here.

[dumb.bell]

What's up dude?

I'm back to trying to figure out the deadlift. This lift still doesn't feel right to me. I feel like I should be able to lift more. I've been paying a lot of attention to the critiques and advice given out and I think I'm lacking the leg drive that Bloodtype refers to and am basically stiff legging the weight like you described. I had a guy in the gym who appeared to know what he was doing, critique me the other day and he said my back was fine, but my ass started really high. However, when I attempt to start in a lower position, I don't seem to have any leverage.

[BloodType3R]

I'm back to trying to figure out the deadlift. This lift still doesn't feel right to me. I feel like I should be able to lift more. I've been paying a lot of attention to the critiques and advice given out and I think I'm lacking the leg drive that Bloodtype refers to and am basically stiff legging the weight like you described. I had a guy in the gym who appeared to know what he was doing, critique me the other day and he said my back was fine, but my ass started really high. However, when I attempt to start in a lower position, I don't seem to have any leverage.

Do you do much hamstring and glute work?

[Wildtim]

As a guy who has done a whole lot of full body routines I will never forget the day I learned to use straps, they really added a lot to a workout that has both upper back work like rows and pulldowns as well as deads. By using the straps for my back centered pulls I didn't need them to progress my deadlift. I still get all the grip work I can handle but not to much.

I'm back to trying to figure out the deadlift. This lift still doesn't feel right to me. I feel like I should be able to lift more. I've been paying a lot of attention to the critiques and advice given out and I think I'm lacking the leg drive that Bloodtype refers to and am basically stiff legging the weight like you described. I had a guy in the gym who appeared to know what he was doing, critique me the other day and he said my back was fine, but my ass started really high. However, when I attempt to start in a lower position, I don't seem to have any leverage.

You probably aren't sitting back far enough at the beginning of the lift. This would allow you to drop your butt and drive off the floor with your legs further under you, not behind you. It feels more like to are pulling the bar into you rather than straight up.

[dumb.bell]

Do you do much hamstring and glute work?

I do GHDs. Usually 3 to 5 sets of anywhere from 10 to 20 reps. However, my GHD seems to have a slight incline, so I don't think they are as difficult as they might be on one with a decline. I need to build some sort of block to raise the rear legs.

I also do standing leg curls, but have been a little lax on those as of late.

[dumb.bell]

You probably aren't sitting back far enough at the beginning of the lift. This would allow you to drop your butt and drive off the floor with your legs further under you, not behind you. It feels more like to are pulling the bar into you rather than straight up.

I'll try working on that then, sitting back and pulling the bar into me.

[Wildtim]

I'll try working on that then, sitting back and pulling the bar into me.

This is sort of a body cue more than what actually happens. In order to get the bar directly in line with where your center of gravity will be when standing most of your body is behind it in the starting position. It feels like you would fall over backwards if you let go, heck, you might. When you pull up and drive your heels through the floor the bar comes straight up and your body unfolds towards the bar reaching equilibrium just at lock out.

[BloodType3R]

I do GHDs. Usually 3 to 5 sets of anywhere from 10 to 20 reps. However, my GHD seems to have a slight incline, so I don't think they are as difficult as they might be on one with a decline. I need to build some sort of block to raise the rear legs.

I also do standing leg curls, but have been a little lax on those as of late.

Doesn't sound like a muscular imbalance then, unless your back is folding, which IIRC you said wasn't happening.

You probably aren't sitting back far enough at the beginning of the lift. This would allow you to drop your butt and drive off the floor with your legs further under you, not behind you. It feels more like to are pulling the bar into you rather than straight up.

That's a good tip, even if just used as a mental cue.



I know one thing that causes me to start with excessively high hips is having the bar too close to my shins so you may want to play with bar positioning (as well as stance width and foot angle).

[judgecrandall]

I know a few other guys here have been starting out with front squats, so I wanted to post my experience with them so far.

I started out with just the bar, and playing around with a clean grip vs straps (towels in my case). My first sets with more than just the bar went pretty well, but I was surprised by how sore my abs and upper back were. It definitely hits those muscles much more than a back squat (high bar, in my case). I found that with a few reps under my belt, I was able to use the clean grip without too much trouble. But as the weights went up, I found that it was really tough on my fingers, so I switched back to towels for the top sets. This allowed me to focus on the main lift (which is tough enough on its own) without worrying about my fingers. I also jumped up in weight too quickly, which didn't go well, so I went back down and slowed the progression. I probably need to do them more than once a week to improve my form (currently only doing them on the deadlift day of Madcow). Overall, I really enjoy front squats, but am finding it very technical and humbling relative to back squat. For those starting out with front squats and having trouble, I'd say be patient and get your form down and don't be afraid to use straps if you're having issues with the clean grip (especially if you don't need to learn the clean grip for power clean, etc).

On a semi-related note, I've been stalling on my back squat again, right around the same weight as before - 315ish. Not quite sure what the problem is, but I've noticed some nagging hip soreness when I'm at parallel, or slightly below, as well as some lower back soreness. I think I might be using more lower back to compensate for my hips. When this happened before, I lowered the weight and started doing the Agile 8 stretching routine, which helped a lot, but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be enough.

Not sure if I need to:
- lower the volume/intensity (I just increased the increments between sets from 12.5% to 15%)
- take a break from squatting
- add accessory exercises
- start a different routine (I've been on Madcow for quite some time)

Would appreciate any thoughts, thanks!

[BloodType3R]

Good stuff judge.
I've also been floundering around, at about the same weight, with my squat. I hit my first calculated max improvement in 4 months yesterday, so I may be onto something, finally. 2 cycles ago, I added a single AMRAP 1st set last. This extra volume, at low intensity, seems to be working for me.

Judge, you pull sumo, correct?

[Wildtim]

I know one thing that causes me to start with excessively high hips is having the bar too close to my shins so you may want to play with bar positioning (as well as stance width and foot angle).

Yea, true. When I start the bar is not quite touching my legs maybe just brushing my leg hair

[judgecrandall]

Good stuff judge.
I've also been floundering around, at about the same weight, with my squat. I hit my first calculated max improvement in 4 months yesterday, so I may be onto something, finally. 2 cycles ago, I added a single AMRAP 1st set last. This extra volume, at low intensity, seems to be working for me.

Judge, you pull sumo, correct?

Nice work! I've been really frustrated with my squat lately since it used to be my favorite/easiest lift, but just haven't been able to make much progress once the weights got around 300. Madcow sort of has that concept built into it's PR day - after a 3 rep set of the new PR weight, there's an 8-rep set at 70%, but obviously that hasn't been working for me.

Yeah, sumo. Just occurred to me that sumo is harder on the hips, so that could be something I change up as well. Conventional just doesn't feel as natural for me and I've been wary of it after hurting my back a few times, but it shouldn't be an issue now.

[BloodType3R]

Yea, true. When I start the bar is not quite touching my legs maybe just brushing my leg hair

I think a lot of people make the mistake of having the bar too close, which doesn't allow them to find the "pulling backwards" groove that you described earlier. I made this mistake for a loooong time and it's still generally the first form error that I hit during exhaustion. This makes it easy to break the bar from the floor but leads lower back rounding and stiff-legging, making the rest of the lift more difficult than it needs to be.

Nice work! I've been really frustrated with my squat lately since it used to be my favorite/easiest lift, but just haven't been able to make much progress once the weights got around 300. Madcow sort of has that concept built into it's PR day - after a 3 rep set of the new PR weight, there's an 8-rep set at 70%, but obviously that hasn't been working for me.

Yeah, sumo. Just occurred to me that sumo is harder on the hips, so that could be something I change up as well. Conventional just doesn't feel as natural for me and I've been wary of it after hurting my back a few times, but it shouldn't be an issue now.

Yeah, sumo and front squats in one day could be leaving your hips under recovered. Maybe you could swap the accessory work, putting front squats on your squat day and moving that day's work to deadlifts day.

[judgecrandall]

Yeah, sumo and front squats in one day could be leaving your hips under recovered. Maybe you could swap the accessory work, putting front squats on your squat day and moving that day's work to deadlifts day.

I think that definitely doesn't help, but I was having the hip issues even before I started front squatting. I took some time off awhile back and that seemed to help a bit, but I think that had more to do with the fact that I deloaded when I started lifting again. As much as it pains me to admit it, I think I might just need to find a less squat-centric routine, at least for awhile.

[dumb.bell]

This is sort of a body cue more than what actually happens. In order to get the bar directly in line with where your center of gravity will be when standing most of your body is behind it in the starting position. It feels like you would fall over backwards if you let go, heck, you might. When you pull up and drive your heels through the floor the bar comes straight up and your body unfolds towards the bar reaching equilibrium just at lock out.

I understood what you meant.

Doesn't sound like a muscular imbalance then, unless your back is folding, which IIRC you said wasn't happening.

No, I don't think I'm having any issues with my back. My wife had been monitoring me and she said everything looked good, but I felt better getting someone else to confirm it.

I know one thing that causes me to start with excessively high hips is having the bar too close to my shins so you may want to play with bar positioning (as well as stance width and foot angle).

This could be an issue, since I'm pretty sure I start with the bar against my shins.

I need to film myself like others have and let you guys critique me. It would probably help is I could see what I look like too.

[rlundregan]

Judge, do you stretch your hamstrings out regularly? Maybe that is included in the Agile 8, I'll have to Google it to find out more. I know that I have really tight hams, which pull on my pelvis and cause a fair amount of buttwink when I am in the hole. Stretching my hamstrings has helped me a lot with increasing my squat and deadlift numbers without hurting myself.

That may not be the issue you are having, but I was experiencing hip soreness as well when I would go down to parallel, and I hurt by lower back while deadlifting, so I thought I would put it out there.

[judgecrandall]

Judge, do you stretch your hamstrings out regularly? Maybe that is included in the Agile 8, I'll have to Google it to find out more. I know that I have really tight hams, which pull on my pelvis and cause a fair amount of buttwink when I am in the hole. Stretching my hamstrings has helped me a lot with increasing my squat and deadlift numbers without hurting myself.

That may not be the issue you are having, but I was experiencing hip soreness as well when I would go down to parallel, and I hurt by lower back while deadlifting, so I thought I would put it out there.

I do stretch the hammies, but it's not something I focus on. And now that you mention it, they are pretty tight. I'd been focusing so much on my hips and lower back that I haven't thought about them in awhile. I'll try more hamstring stretches and see if it helps, thanks for the advice.

Here's a link to the Agile 8 - it doesn't really have much hamstring work: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/we...-a-631289.html

[Wildtim]

I understood what you meant.

Yea you did, my bad. I get used to explaining things in some sections where the first instruction on any and every lift has to be "find a barbell" often followed by "its that long thing you put weights on for the last exercise".

[animalfan]

Ahh so, we've combined two of the most debated equipment usages into one topic, on the previous page...

The debate around belts and straps will always be here, and I don't think there really is a right or wrong. For the record I use a belt on my "heavy" sets and don't use straps on deadlifts much. If someone does use straps for rep sets I think it'll be ok, unless they are using the deadlift for grip work. If someone does or doesn't use a belt I think that'll be ok too. I've done multiple heavy/rep sets on the deadlift and squat with and without a belt, and heavy deadlifts or front squats done without a belt will leave your abs "feeling it".

I'm back to trying to figure out the deadlift. This lift still doesn't feel right to me. I feel like I should be able to lift more. I've been paying a lot of attention to the critiques and advice given out and I think I'm lacking the leg drive that Bloodtype refers to and am basically stiff legging the weight like you described. I had a guy in the gym who appeared to know what he was doing, critique me the other day and he said my back was fine, but my ass started really high. However, when I attempt to start in a lower position, I don't seem to have any leverage.

Do you feel the same with trap bar deadlifts, or is it just with an olympic bar?

Do you do much hamstring and glute work?

I need to do more of this, personally.

dumb.bell, where are your toes pointed when you deadlift? They should be pointed slightly out, not straight forward. This will get your glutes involved in the movement.

Yeah, sumo. Just occurred to me that sumo is harder on the hips, so that could be something I change up as well. Conventional just doesn't feel as natural for me and I've been wary of it after hurting my back a few times, but it shouldn't be an issue now.

Sumo deadlifts kill my hips, I can do them for lower weight, but if I get heavy with them, just OUCH.

[dumb.bell]

yea you did, my bad. I get used to explaining things in some sections where the first instruction on any and every lift has to be "find a barbell" often followed by "its that long thing you put weights on for the last exercise".

lol

[dumb.bell]

Do you feel the same with trap bar deadlifts, or is it just with an olympic bar?

I've only done these once, it was at a hotel gym a few years ago and I didn't go heavy enough to really get a feel for the lift.

[animalfan]

I've only done these once, it was at a hotel gym a few years ago and I didn't go heavy enough to really get a feel for the lift.

Gotcha. Just wondering if keeping the bar too far in front of you was an issue.

[animalfan]

Had a 2" cyst removed from my neck Friday, been in pain with it for a while. Draining/bleeding all weekend, hope it stops so I can work tonight. Luckily this beard hid it, looked pretty gross. Still does, but now it's covered with gauze.

Can't wait for this to heal so I can lift again.

[ProtienandIron]

Had a 2" cyst removed from my neck Friday, been in pain with it for a while. Draining/bleeding all weekend, hope it stops so I can work tonight. Luckily this beard hid it, looked pretty gross. Still does, but now it's covered with gauze.

Can't wait for this to heal so I can lift again.

Nice. I had my sebaceous syst taken off my head last month, its like saying goodbye to an old friend.

[Wildtim]

Nasty. They going to biopsy it?

[SkinnySquats]

Had a 2" cyst removed from my neck Friday, been in pain with it for a while. Draining/bleeding all weekend, hope it stops so I can work tonight. Luckily this beard hid it, looked pretty gross. Still does, but now it's covered with gauze.

Can't wait for this to heal so I can lift again.

You just reminded me, Walking Dead is back on tonight. Get better!