Hypertrophy/Bodybuilding Routine

[Jasonk282]

rest days

i know kelei says take them when needed, but lets say youve already lifted 6 days in a row. is it completely fine for a natural lifter to continue on to the 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th etc consecutive day of lifting w no days off as long as u feel ok? because it is my 7th day today and my chest feels fine, thus im considering doing push day again. is this ok?

take em when you feel you need em

[sepandee]

Subbed.

Does anyone do this routine with endurance training/more cardio? I know, I know, not ideal, but that's the life I live in now. Chronic issues with my elbow (golfer's eblow), so I don't want to go too hard.

Also, because of my elbow tendonitis, what's a good replacement for RDLs? Yes, there aren't any, I get it But what's the best alternative?

[Jasonk282]

Subbed.

Does anyone do this routine with endurance training/more cardio? I know, I know, not ideal, but that's the life I live in now. Chronic issues with my elbow (golfer's eblow), so I don't want to go too hard.

Also, because of my elbow tendonitis, what's a good replacement for RDLs? Yes, there aren't any, I get it But what's the best alternative?

RDLs replacement would be good mornings as both are a hip hingle movement.

[ThatOneLurker]

Subbed.

Does anyone do this routine with endurance training/more cardio? I know, I know, not ideal, but that's the life I live in now. Chronic issues with my elbow (golfer's eblow), so I don't want to go too hard.

Also, because of my elbow tendonitis, what's a good replacement for RDLs? Yes, there aren't any, I get it But what's the best alternative?

I do weighted hyperextensions (hamstring style/emphasis) in place of RDLs.

[klaximilian]

I do weighted hyperextensions (hamstring style/emphasis) in place of RDLs.

What was your reasoning? Didn't feel enough contraction in the hams?

[krysix]

Subbed.

Does anyone do this routine with endurance training/more cardio? I know, I know, not ideal, but that's the life I live in now. Chronic issues with my elbow (golfer's eblow), so I don't want to go too hard.

Also, because of my elbow tendonitis, what's a good replacement for RDLs? Yes, there aren't any, I get it But what's the best alternative?

Did u try some kind of straps for RDL?

[64509chvl]

RDLs replacement would be good mornings as both are a hip hingle movement.

Really like good mornings

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

Anyone else able to lift almost as much with dumbbells as a barbell?? It's probably the strangest thing ever, but somehow I've managed to get my dumbbell bench press to 100s (200 total) for 10 reps and my 10 rep barbell bench press is 215 lbs. Just seems strange since most people would be able to barbell press 300 with a dumbbell press like that.


This one is more curiosity than anything:
if I do 1 arm at a time with more weight than both arms at the same time, I'm increasing my overall volume which should increase hypertrophy (in theory anyways), correct?

Example: I can mower row 90 lb dumbbells with strict form with 1 arm for 10 reps, switch hands, do 10 reps with the other for 50 reps each arm (or 100 reps total) vs. being able to do chest supported dumbbell rows with 75 lbs with strict form for 10 reps (50 reps total). Even if I did 100, the mower rows would be better since I'm moving more weight which = greater volume which = greater hypertrophy using mower rows vs chest supported rows??

[Jasonk282]

Anyone else able to lift almost as much with dumbbells as a barbell?? It's probably the strangest thing ever, but somehow I've managed to get my dumbbell bench press to 100s (200 total) for 10 reps and my 10 rep barbell bench press is 215 lbs. Just seems strange since most people would be able to barbell press 300 with a dumbbell press like that.


This one is more curiosity than anything:
if I do 1 arm at a time with more weight than both arms at the same time, I'm increasing my overall volume which should increase hypertrophy (in theory anyways), correct?

Example: I can mower row 90 lb dumbbells with strict form with 1 arm for 10 reps, switch hands, do 10 reps with the other for 50 reps each arm (or 100 reps total) vs. being able to do chest supported dumbbell rows with 75 lbs with strict form for 10 reps (50 reps total). Even if I did 100, the mower rows would be better since I'm moving more weight which = greater volume which = greater hypertrophy using mower rows vs chest supported rows??

I'm pretty sure we don't add up the DBs and 200 lbs DB bench would be a 200 lb DB in each hand...even though I get what you're saying, it's not exactly working out that way as unlike in the barbell bench, each arm is moving the weight independently unlike on the barbell.

As for the rows...I would use the motion that let's you use the most weight for the most volume. I've always prefered DB rows over BB rows...however with my home gym I unfortunately don;t have heavy enough DBs so I have to use barbell to get a heavier load.

[ThatOneLurker]

What was your reasoning? Didn't feel enough contraction in the hams?

I simply dislike the exercise.


Maybe I'll return to doing them again in the future.

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

I'm pretty sure we don't add up the DBs and 200 lbs DB bench would be a 200 lb DB in each hand...even though I get what you're saying, it's not exactly working out that way as unlike in the barbell bench, each arm is moving the weight independently unlike on the barbell.

As for the rows...I would use the motion that let's you use the most weight for the most volume. I've always prefered DB rows over BB rows...however with my home gym I unfortunately don;t have heavy enough DBs so I have to use barbell to get a heavier load.

Did you mean to type 100 instead of the second 200?

I get so much more volume with mower pulls over chest supported rows which I get more volume over bent over rows.

I just seem to get more volume in with dumbbells period. It's strange because everyone says do barbells because you can use more weight... well that isn't very true for me at all. I don't really know why either, haha. Oh well..

[LazyBastard]

Anyone else able to lift almost as much with dumbbells as a barbell?? It's probably the strangest thing ever, but somehow I've managed to get my dumbbell bench press to 100s (200 total) for 10 reps and my 10 rep barbell bench press is 215 lbs. Just seems strange since most people would be able to barbell press 300 with a dumbbell press like that.


This one is more curiosity than anything:
if I do 1 arm at a time with more weight than both arms at the same time, I'm increasing my overall volume which should increase hypertrophy (in theory anyways), correct?

Example: I can mower row 90 lb dumbbells with strict form with 1 arm for 10 reps, switch hands, do 10 reps with the other for 50 reps each arm (or 100 reps total) vs. being able to do chest supported dumbbell rows with 75 lbs with strict form for 10 reps (50 reps total). Even if I did 100, the mower rows would be better since I'm moving more weight which = greater volume which = greater hypertrophy using mower rows vs chest supported rows??

Yeah, I don't think that's too weird. I Bench 95's for 11 reps and with the Barbell I do 220 for 11 reps. Now I can max 295 on the Bench, but that's just 1 rep.

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

Alright, well why are people so hell bent on using barbells? For strength reasons, I kind of get it... but if your focus is pure hypertrophy, I feel like dumbbells are the way to go. I feel the targeted muscle contract, get pumped up way more, range of motion increases, more natural movement so less joint pain...

Maybe I'm just getting old and realizing the increasing joint stress isn't worth it.

[LazyBastard]

Alright, well why are people so hell bent on using barbells? For strength reasons, I kind of get it... but if your focus is pure hypertrophy, I feel like dumbbells are the way to go. I feel the targeted muscle contract, get pumped up way more, range of motion increases, more natural movement so less joint pain...

Maybe I'm just getting old and realizing the increasing joint stress isn't worth it.

Dunno. I utilize both. Maybe some people like to see the large amount of weight on the barbell? For me- I feel like I hit my chest a bit differently each way- so I jump back and forth.

[64509chvl]

Alright, well why are people so hell bent on using barbells? For strength reasons, I kind of get it... but if your focus is pure hypertrophy, I feel like dumbbells are the way to go. I feel the targeted muscle contract, get pumped up way more, range of motion increases, more natural movement so less joint pain...

Maybe I'm just getting old and realizing the increasing joint stress isn't worth it.

I prefer DB aswell. After my last form correction with BB bench just before my surgery I was at 215 10-12 reps & with DB's it was 90's for 15 (my power blocks only go to 90). Basically same as you.
I simply prefer the natural/less restricted path with DB's...my shoulders have always been crap! It's just harder with rest/pause & DB's but I don't care . For the matter of DB's being more effort getting in place, I take long enough rest to get 5 reps per set...usually 40 seconds.

[LazyBastard]

Hmm... just curious- since some of us seem to be at similar strength (at least as far as chest goes)- how long have you guys been lifting? And how long with kelei's program?
Myself- I've been pretty serious for about the past 2 years. I switch to straight sets sometimes for a few months and even did some ICF for a while, but I'd say I've utilized Kelei's for at least 50-60 percent of my programming. I also attribute most of my gains from this program, but I do like to mix it up- especially since I tend to burn myself out on Kelei's after a while.

[Jasonk282]

Did you mean to type 100 instead of the second 200?

No. When wet talk about benching DBS it's assumed it's that weight per hand. So a 45 lb db bench would be 45s in each hand. Not 90 lbs. just like you're not doing 90lb curls when you curl 45s

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

Hmm... just curious- since some of us seem to be at similar strength (at least as far as chest goes)- how long have you guys been lifting? And how long with kelei's program?
Myself- I've been pretty serious for about the past 2 years. I switch to straight sets sometimes for a few months and even did some ICF for a while, but I'd say I've utilized Kelei's for at least 50-60 percent of my programming. I also attribute most of my gains from this program, but I do like to mix it up- especially since I tend to burn myself out on Kelei's after a while.

I lifted from 18-23? then took 4 years off and have been back in it for 2 1/2 (I think). I think I had some muscle memory since I gained quite a bit of strength back right away. I've gained a ton though this past 8 months of running Kelei's program.

I think 8 months ago I was at 185 lbs for 10 reps and now I'm at 210 or 215 for the same on bench... I think that's a pretty sizeable gain. Similar numbers for the rest of the lifts in terms of gains in that amount of time.

Probably more information than you wanted... sorry I'm high on preworkout.

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

No. When wet talk about benching DBS it's assumed it's that weight per hand. So a 45 lb db bench would be 45s in each hand. Not 90 lbs. just like you're not doing 90lb curls when you curl 45s

I've always thought about it as adding the 2 dumbbells added up = barbell lift

So 100 lb dumbbell presses (100 lbs each hand) would = 200 lbs on the barbell

I don't get the point you're trying to make... or if you're trying to make a point. lol. What are we talking about??

[ThatOneLurker]

Did you mean to type 100 instead of the second 200?

I get so much more volume with mower pulls over chest supported rows which I get more volume over bent over rows.

I just seem to get more volume in with dumbbells period. It's strange because everyone says do barbells because you can use more weight... well that isn't very true for me at all. I don't really know why either, haha. Oh well..

Chest Supported Rows are still superior to mower DB rows because the only way to cheat on a CS row is when your chest comes off of the pad and it's easily rectified. You can't use your lower back or any of your surrounding muscles to jerk the weight up as fatigue sets in as opposed to mower rows where you can swing up the weight by using momentum by using your lower back, shoulders or a combination of the two. Regardless of how conscious you are of your form it is bound to happen in your later reps.

I'm inclined to believe that simultaneous contraction of your rhomboids (as opposed to alternating rows with arm) will do more to counterbalance your pressing and chest/front delt work.

It's no secret that chest supported rows are the best strength exercise for overall shoulder health in addition to building a great upper back and considering the amount of volume we do for chest on these routines it is a necessary staple of the routine.

[Jasonk282]

I've always thought about it as adding the 2 dumbbells added up = barbell lift

So 100 lb dumbbell presses (100 lbs each hand) would = 200 lbs on the barbell

I don't get the point you're trying to make... or if you're trying to make a point. lol. What are we talking about??

im not trying to make any point. Just saying that 2 100 lb DBS don't equal a 200 lb barbell bench

[1mitchnathan]

Why is my rest pause endurance not improving for my bench movement?

I'm on the third week on this routine, running the PPL spit 6x per week for 50 reps total per exercises, eating well (4000kcal) and sleeping great. All lifts are improving on the first set, and I love this workout. However, for my push workout, I cannot complete ANY pressing movements in a manner where I can only rest 30sec-1minute. If I attempt to rest in that time, I cannot complete one rep. As a matter of fact, I'm managing around 3 reps by resting 1:30-2min between sets and, in the last few sets, I'm even resting 2:30-3minutes to manage 3 reps. However, for the very first set, i'm failing on 11-14reps, so I don't think then weight is too heavy. I understand that Kelei's point is not to worry about rest times so long as you push to failure (technical failure) each set, but I just wanna make sure I'm doing this right by resting so long? For what it's worth, my other exercises for Pull and Leg days I can manage three reps with only about a minute of rest between sets.

Thanks for reading.

[Jasonk282]

Why is my rest pause endurance not improving for my bench movement?

I'm on the third week on this routine, running the PPL spit 6x per week for 50 reps total per exercises, eating well (4000kcal) and sleeping great. All lifts are improving on the first set, and I love this workout. However, for my push workout, I cannot complete ANY pressing movements in a manner where I can only rest 30sec-1minute. If I attempt to rest in that time, I cannot complete one rep. As a matter of fact, I'm managing around 3 reps by resting 1:30-2min between sets and, in the last few sets, I'm even resting 2:30-3minutes to manage 3 reps. However, for the very first set, i'm failing on 11-14reps, so I don't think then weight is too heavy. I understand that Kelei's point is not to worry about rest times so long as you push to failure (technical failure) each set, but I just wanna make sure I'm doing this right by resting so long? For what it's worth, my other exercises for Pull and Leg days I can manage three reps with only about a minute of rest between sets.

Thanks for reading.

maybe it's just too much volume for you...for now.

[1mitchnathan]

Thanks for the response. I'll lower my total reps to 40 for push movements and see how it works.

However, even if I lower total reps, my very first few sets after the first failure set will still take me around 1:30 to 2 minutes to rest. Is this ok and in par with the program?

[Jasonk282]

Thanks for the response. I'll lower my total reps to 40 for push movements and see how it works.

However, even if I lower total reps, my very first few sets after the first failure set will still take me around 1:30 to 2 minutes to rest. Is this ok and in par with the program?

Rest times for the most part do not matter...getting the volume in does. I prefer to not go over a minute of rest per set. Typically I stay around 30 seconds.

[1mitchnathan]

Rest times for the most part do not matter...getting the volume in does. I prefer to not go over a minute of rest per set. Typically I stay around 30 seconds.

Thanks for the response man, definitely helpful!

One last thing just to make sure I read right. On every workout with the push pull legs exercises that Kelei recommended, I'm doing 50 reps per exercise, which means 100 reps per body part due to a second exercise that targets the same muscle group (ex: wide bench and incline bench for chest). Preformed twice weekly, I'm doing 200 reps per week per body part. Compared to conventional thought of training, this would seem crazy, but I suppose this wouldn't be bad considering I'm de-loading after every 18th session/3 weeks?

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

Chest Supported Rows are still superior to mower DB rows because the only way to cheat on a CS row is when your chest comes off of the pad and it's easily rectified. You can't use your lower back or any of your surrounding muscles to jerk the weight up as fatigue sets in as opposed to mower rows where you can swing up the weight by using momentum by using your lower back, shoulders or a combination of the two. Regardless of how conscious you are of your form it is bound to happen in your later reps.

I'm inclined to believe that simultaneous contraction of your rhomboids (as opposed to alternating rows with arm) will do more to counterbalance your pressing and chest/front delt work.

It's no secret that chest supported rows are the best strength exercise for overall shoulder health in addition to building a great upper back and considering the amount of volume we do for chest on these routines it is a necessary staple of the routine.

Thanks Kelei Jr.

My sternum starts really hurting with chest supported rows which is why I went to mower pulls... how do I fix that?

im not trying to make any point. Just saying that 2 100 lb DBS don't equal a 200 lb barbell bench

Gotcha! Sorry for the confusion.

[ThatOneLurker]

Thanks Kelei Jr.

My sternum starts really hurting with chest supported rows which is why I went to mower pulls... how do I fix that?



Gotcha! Sorry for the confusion.

Position your chest higher up on it so your sternum is on the pad less.

Have you tried chest supported dumbbell rows?

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

Position your chest higher up on it so your sternum is on the pad less.

Have you tried chest supported dumbbell rows?

Yeah, I was doing chest supported dumbbell rows. I'll try to get up higher on the pad..

[ThatOneLurker]

If it's that uncomfortable then does your gym have one of these?




You could perform rows on these with your chest on the pad.


Or continue doing mower rows but throwing in reverse flyes.