phosphatidic acid

[OT2000]

After running both King and SL, I would say I noticed more of a difference in the King product. My appetite went through the roof after supplementation that was not replicated with SL. I did notice some strength increases on both but felt a lot heavier in my stomach with SL.

[NewAgeMayan]

Interesting observations, Kitzy.

I personally have noticed no changes to my appetite with neither King or soyl. Its curious how these things can vary between people.

[Joe D]

Anyone excited about muscletech's phospha build?

[Quadzilla99]

Anyone excited about muscletech's phospha build?

No.

[Joe D]

Here's the profile

[ShoooterMcGavin]

I'll look into it tomorrow

thanks boss

[ShoooterMcGavin]

thanks boss

You bought two 90 servings of Xtend and you are worried about getting a free $25 product that is 10x more effective.... Go buy it and when your free bottle comes in you have an extra.

And posting for everyone to see instead of keeping it to pm's over a free product....like you are calling him out for not sending it overnight bb.com style shipping. If I was fug I would have reneged on the offer the minute you posted wanting to know where it was the first time.

ummm. one. i didnt ask him for the product. he offered it to me. I sent him a PM but either he never received or something. He told me i was supposed to get it awhile ago.

I have no problem buying it after trying it if it works. so... hmm

[kissdadookie]

Anyone excited about muscletech's phospha build?

I have two bottles of that. Currently running the Epiq one.

Thus far, IMHO:

The Epiq is quite comparable to Micro-PA. This is after I've stopped use of PA completely for ~1 month.

[llahhsoj]

Anyone excited about muscletech's phospha build?

It isn't a MuscleTech product. It is made by the same makers though. I would like to see one drop and put it in Performance Series. I have been on if for about 3 weeks now though and muscle fullness and strength is doing great.

[Joe D]

It isn't a MuscleTech product. It is made by the same makers though. I would like to see one drop and put it in Performance Series though. I have been on if for about 3 weeks now though and muscle fullness and strength is doing great.

I think it would be perfect in the performance series

[nathangreen]

Late to party, but finally got some of this stuff

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/now/lecnon.html

Dosing 3 TB based off recommendations ITT. 2pre/1post

1st dose this morning. Mixed with a little water. No real bad taste imo, kind of nutty. Texture wasn't pleasant, but only took a few seconds to get down

Couple of questions for the OG's of this thread..

1) When did you first start to notice any effects and what were they?

2) I keep reading that the phytoestrogens in soy lecithin is bad for males etc etc. Then i read something that contradicts it, back and forth. Can't seem to get a solid answer. Any experts ITT? I normally don't consume much soy so this is a lot more than normal for me and I already have problems keeping estrogen in a healthy range, so i want to avoid any extra problems is why I'm asking

Just an example "Soy contains an anti-nutrient known as phytic acid that bind to minerals such as iron, zinc, and magnesium and disrupts their absorption by the human body.

In a study published in Food and Chemical Toxicology, the researchers concluded by stating that soy lecithin was also found to be strongly estrogenic.1 These estrogenic compounds found in soy have been shown to disrupt thyroid and endocrine hormone production. "

[NewAgeMayan]

1) When did you first start to notice any effects and what were they?

Some users report 'acute' effects, some dont. These early effects (strength increase, muscle fullness, appetite increase) seem to vary from person to person, and I wouldnt necessarily let them be any indicator of any long term benefit of supplementing with PA. The main use of PA, I think, is its long term effect on stimulating hypertrophy (long term as in you prolly wont notice this in short time periods).

2) I keep reading that the phytoestrogens in soy lecithin is bad for males etc etc. Then i read something that contradicts it, back and forth. Can't seem to get a solid answer.

As far as I understand this (from those more knowledgable than myself) is that the estrogen concern is largely centred on soy oils and powders; we are ingesting highly processed ( and de-oiled) soy granules, and as such this poses very little issue for us. It has been discussed a few times itt, and my take-away from it has been there is no issue with the granules.

[Joe D]

The first acute things you might notice is increase in hunger, which I initially felt, but luckily went away

[MuscleUpCrohns]

I think that examine.com did a decent job explaining it:

In regards to men and Testosterone, the isoflavones genistein and daizein are implicating in reducing testosterone levels.

When soy is used as a food product, there do not appear to be large reductions in testosterone for the most part.[41] Supplementation with Soy Protein shares this same notion, and the trend suggests that does not seem to adversely affect testosterone.[42][43][44] It should also be noted that many studies on whey or casein protein supplements will use soy protein as a control; many of the studies cited on those pages which use soy protein as control can be used as indirect evidence for the inefficacy of soy protein supplements in lowering test.

Most well-conducted meta-analyses come to similar conclusions. The evidence is too weak or varied to come to the conclusion that 'soy reduces testosterone'.[45][46]

This isn't to say that soy is not at all related to lower testosterone levels; some case studies note that drastic overconsumption of soy can result in reduced androgen levels.[47] There is some evidence that for those who harbor the bacteria that can produce equol, that they can experience reductions in testosterone.[48] A study that did not specifically control for Equol but noted its production also noted decreases in testosterone.[49]

One study found decreases in testosterone independent of equol[50] but has been criticized for its statistical analysis for including a large outlier.[51] Another study noted decreases at high isoflavone contents, but minimal decreases at lower isoflavone contents (and did not control for equol production).[52]

Soy does not appear to significantly affect testosterone levels in moderation (1-2 servings of soy food daily, less than 25g of soy protein from non-concentrate sources), and seems to be able to adversely affect testosterone levels when superloaded (enough so that the equol issue is moot; around 100mg isoflavones daily). Between moderation and excess, there is a grey area that is dependent on whether or not one is able to produce equol from daidzein. These numbers do not apply to soy protein concentrate, which has negligible isoflavone content from ethanol extraction.

[NewAgeMayan]

yip, found these from earlier itt:

Soy isoflavones mimic estrogen, from my understanding the soy lecithin does not contain or contains very little isoflavones.

Soy isoflavone content of Soy Lecithin is roughly 10mg per 100 grams.

[drjgrahamdc]

Late to party, but finally got some of this stuff


Dosing 3 TB based off recommendations ITT. 2pre/1post

1st dose this morning. Mixed with a little water. No real bad taste imo, kind of nutty. Texture wasn't pleasant, but only took a few seconds to get down

Couple of questions for the OG's of this thread..

1) When did you first start to notice any effects and what were they?

2) I keep reading that the phytoestrogens in soy lecithin is bad for males etc etc. Then i read something that contradicts it, back and forth. Can't seem to get a solid answer. Any experts ITT? I normally don't consume much soy so this is a lot more than normal for me and I already have problems keeping estrogen in a healthy range, so i want to avoid any extra problems is why I'm asking

Just an example "Soy contains an anti-nutrient known as phytic acid that bind to minerals such as iron, zinc, and magnesium and disrupts their absorption by the human body.

In a study published in Food and Chemical Toxicology, the researchers concluded by stating that soy lecithin was also found to be strongly estrogenic.1 These estrogenic compounds found in soy have been shown to disrupt thyroid and endocrine hormone production. "

Just like you, I am finally starting this! Using 3 Tbsp Fearn SL per day.

Started a week ago... so far, not much change in appetite. I have added 1 lb of weight and decreased body fat 1%, according to my Omron scale so accuracy is questionable.

Workouts felt good this week with increased strength, but still too early to be conclusive.

[nathangreen]

thanks for the responses! exactly what i was looking for

[McWinning]

so what brand is everyone using now a days, still fearn? havent been here since page 70 or so lol

[OT2000]

Just looked at Epiq and the new Phosphabuild on GNC and wow, what a rip off. $69-99. And for 28 day serving...*shakes head*

Picked up 2 more bottles of King. Paid half of that for 60 day supply.

[NewAgeMayan]

so what brand is everyone using now a days, still fearn?

My current stash:

3x Fearn
1x LEF
1x VitaCost

Would love to get some Optima, but damn that sh!t is expensive where I am.

[cumminslifter]

so what brand is everyone using now a days, still fearn? havent been here since page 70 or so lol

for the most part

[Joe D]

Really starting to feel my strength going up. I've gotten to 8 reps at 225lbs with squats, perfect form ass to calves. Wednesday I'm gonna try to throw up 100lb dumbells flat bench. It's been like 4 weeks of use, with a week break in between. 255lb squats is my goal eventually.

[kissdadookie]

Just looked at Epiq and the new Phosphabuild on *** and wow, what a rip off. $69-99. And for 28 day serving...*shakes head*

Picked up 2 more bottles of King. Paid half of that for 60 day supply.

I like it (Epiq). You know what you're getting in the bottle. Would of course wait around to see if there's a sale or deal on it of course at the three letter store. Just like everything else they have in that store.

Comparable to Micro-PA IMHO.

[hamdysayed]

I like it (Epiq). You know what you're getting in the bottle. Would of course wait around to see if there's a sale or deal on it of course at the three letter store. Just like everything else they have in that store.

Comparable to Micro-PA IMHO.

why wait for a sale when u can get king??if its the pill form u fancy ???
Best sale price u will see probably is 50 bucks mehhhh

[kissdadookie]

why wait for a sale when u can get king??if its the pill form u fancy ???
Best sale price u will see probably is 50 bucks mehhhh

Nope.

[Joe D]

I was wondering if the lecithin granules can have a negative effect on mood?

[TheFugitive]

I was wondering if the lecithin granules can have a negative effect on mood?

It shouldn't have a negative effect. What are you experiencing?

[Joe D]

It shouldn't have a negative effect. What are you experiencing?

I've been a little emotional , more than normal. I'm not blaming it on the granules. Was just curious

[TheFugitive]

I've been a little emotional , more than normal. I'm not blaming it on the granules. Was just curious

I never experienced that. How much are you taking?

[Joe D]

I never experienced that. How much are you taking?

2 1/2 tablespoons