possibly the best atheist argument I've ever seen

[garythesnail]

god is real
/thread

[S4V4NT]

pascal right?

on the op... i agree with it and I too don't believe but the problem is those are just words. sorta like either/or fallacy. we only have so many words we can use and there are tricks with those words we use to argue that never really allow us to achieve "truth", which really is just another word.

totally agree, but arguing about it is neither here nor there, believers gon believe

actually its not pascals wager its einsteins static universe theory

[pcos17]

It's not really flawed. Just means you should pick something to believe. Believing in the flying spaghetti monster is STILL better than believing in nothing.

Unless you have a spiteful god. Then it's probably a push.

It is not the case that atheist's "believe in nothing" - they just lack a particular belief (that a god, prime mover, or some supernatural entity was responsible for the cosmos). This lack of a belief can be, as it often is, replaced with numerous other theories about life and the cosmos - only these theories do not include a god. Arguing semantics about such a juvenile argument is almost as absurd as creating it. Srs.

[jsanchez311]

But, surely something so complex would have to be created? Don't give me that whole unmoved mover thing. I find it easier to believe that these things have come from probability and a infinite number of events.

And that's fine, but who created the atoms to randomly bond with each other to make those infinite number of events possible? I have no problem believing that atoms had an infinite amount of time to bond and un-bond until humans came about, but my question lies in who made the atoms.

[chlaxman]

People keep posting pascals wager. Its a very flawed argument.

Actually I'm the only one to post it and everyone just quoted it

[Awarebrahhh]

god has givien us free well

And also bad grammar apparently.

[Seldini]

And that's fine, but who creating the atoms to randomly bond with each other to make those infinite number of events possible? I have no problem believing that atoms had an infinite amount of time to bond and un-bond until humans came about, but my question lies in who made the atoms.

What the? I don't even...

[JustSaiyanBro]

If you believe and you're wrong...nothing
If you believe and you're right...awesome
If you don't believe and you're wrong...


Even better argument

At any rate, I thought the idea was to believe because you thought it was true? Not because some magic man promises you

rewards.

[jsanchez311]

What the? I don't even...

Aside from the typo in the first sentence, my statement makes a good amount of sense. Please, tell me what you don't understand and I'll gladly clarify.

[Retoaded]

You're right, there's no universal set of values. Which is why my values tell me that if there were a god similar to the generic christian version, it is a god I would reject.

But the concept of god is manmade in attempt to find cause and deeper meaning, also to extort and manipulate. Which is why I'm not worried about it.

I was not even espousing my own personal beliefs, just pointing out the flaws in the original argument.

[chlaxman]

And that's fine, but who created the atoms to randomly bond with each other to make those infinite number of events possible? I have no problem believing that atoms had an infinite amount of time to bond and un-bond until humans came about, but my question lies in who made the atoms.

Subatomic particles make the atom

[pcos17]

on the op... i agree with it and I too don't believe but the problem is those are just words. sorta like either/or fallacy. we only have so many words we can use and there are tricks with those words we use to argue that never really allow us to achieve "truth", which really is just another word.

totally agree, but arguing about it is neither here nor there, believers gon believe

Words are not agents of truth or validity, they are simply instruments used to convey/symbolize points. If words truly failed in the sense that you are claiming, it is unlikely that we would be able to have any sort of productive discourse at all. Asking and assessing truth is a metaphysical question, so in some ways we may never entirely have holistic access to those answers. But by using epistemology, we can assess validity (based on the way a string of connected claims (strings of words) interact with one another), validity is a tool in our understanding of truth and thus, words are far more potent than you seem to be claiming.

[JustSaiyanBro]

Aside from the typo in the first sentence, my statement makes a good amount of sense. Please, tell me what you don't understand and I'll gladly clarify.

The causal chain problem is not solved by God, because then we are asking who made God.

[bottle_cap]

Its not on us to disprove that god exists, its on religious people to prove he exists. Which they can't.

[drewzon87]

If you believe and you're wrong...nothing
If you believe and you're right...awesome
If you don't believe and you're wrong...


Even better argument

if you believe in a god too stupid to not know if you really believe or not

[thecheezman]

That's not an argument for atheism perse. Deist beliefs point to God's existence (hence our creation, free will, etc) but then stepping back to let his creation run its course.

I may not believe in typical Christian ideals of thinking, but I do believe in a God. I see him as a master engineer. I look at a machine like a car. Thousands of complex parts engineered to fit together and achieve various individual tasks, coming together as a machine that does 0-60 in 7 seconds, provides 50 degree A/C, shifts gears automatically, can detect its own problems, and can play your favorite song.

Now look at a human body. Essentially the same idea, except trillions of times more complex. So complex that we have the ability to CREATE the car and machines like it. A man who engineers a car is a brilliant creator of a fantastic machine. The being that creates man is exponentially more brilliant for creating something exponentially more fantastic.

Take that idea and keep in mind that that being also created plants, animals, mountains, rivers, oceans, volcanoes, suns, moons, and other planets, and made them all fit so intricately together that it just WORKS, and try not to believe in a God. He may not be some holy, ever positive, love your neighbor, give up my son, bearded man wearing white like most people picture, but I believe that SOMETHING did this intentionally. It could be ancient aliens for all we know. But even so, who created the matter that makes THEM up?

We'll probably never know, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Richard Buckminster Fuller said "Until the 20th century, reality was everything humans could touch, smell, see, and hear. Since the inital publication of the charted electromagnetic spectrum, humans learned that what they can touch, smell, see, and hear is less than one millionth of reality."

Don't know if this is a copypasta, but it brings up some good points. As a believer/non you cant expect God to prevent everything evil that goes on in the world. And all the stuff that could have happened and didn't, we never hear about those. I'm a christian, and it might be a little unorthodox to say it, but I do see it as God sitting back and letting his little science experiment take course in laymans terms. Maybe he only interferes when he absolutely needs to. And when he wants a new start, he clears the slate and gives it another try (natural disasters).

[Dec4y]

Originally Posted by chlaxman
If you believe and you're wrong...nothing
If you believe and you're right...awesome
If you don't believe and you're wrong...


Even better argument

Only if you actually believe God is dumb enough to not know when people are only believing in him to hedge their bets and doesn't see through your bullsht.

This. It's not true 'belief' if this is your motivation....Although some religions do preach the fire and brimstone fear this so believe in Me stuff....

[CRUCIATUS]

why does an entire group of people, that even has a name for themselves, spend a lifetime trying to prove God is not real?

[iLiftAllNatty]

And when he wants a new start, he clears the slate and gives it another try (natural disasters).

lol no.

[JustSaiyanBro]

why does an entire group of people, that even has a name for themselves, spend a lifetime trying to prove God is not real?

[Bar182]

Don't know if this is a copypasta, but it brings up some good points. As a believer/non you cant expect God to prevent everything evil that goes on in the world. And all the stuff that could have happened and didn't, we never hear about those. I'm a christian, and it might be a little unorthodox to say it, but I do see it as God sitting back and letting his little science experiment take course in laymans terms. Maybe he only interferes when he absolutely needs to. And when he wants a new start, he clears the slate and gives it another try (natural disasters).

WTF!

If God created everything in existence I am pretty sure he would have the ability to prevent evil. Mind = blown at the stupidest thing I have ever read.

Sounds like a ****ing stand up guy.

[Chakadap]

why does an entire group of people, that even has a name for themselves, spend a lifetime trying to prove God is not real?

It's like telling someone why you're a certain political party. When someone asks you why you're that belief/party, you have to give an explanation, otherwise "because/ I have my reasons" will lead to them annoying the f~ck out of you.

[Killamunkz]

The causal chain problem is not solved by God, because then we are asking who made God.

This. A deity just adds a infinitely complex piece to the puzzle.

[Bar182]

why does an entire group of people, that even has a name for themselves, spend a lifetime trying to prove God is not real?

Strong knowledge of Atheism/science in this one.

[Penile_Dementia]

why does an entire group of people, that even has a name for themselves, spend a lifetime trying to prove God is not real?

If you think this is synonymous with "why do atheists provide arguments in favour of atheism?", you are very wrong, if not outright disingenuous. I have regularly made arguments in favour of atheism, but never have I tried to "prove God is not real", which anyone who was bothered to do honest learning on the subject will understand without contradiction.

Hardly any atheists try to prove God is not real, so what name are you referring to... "Gnostic Atheists"? "Strong Atheists?"

Now, to answer "Why do atheists provide arguments in favour of atheism?" (Which is crucially different from the - probably inadvertently - off-topic question you asked -

- Because I care about what's true.
- Because I care about what can be known.
- Because I care about what is done based on perceived truth and knowledge.

[jsanchez311]

The causal chain problem is not solved by God, because then we are asking who made God.

Thanks, Didn't know there was a name for it. I still choose to believe there is a maker instead of believing in nothing.

Subatomic particles make the atom

Ok, but then who was subatomic particle?

Don't know if this is a copypasta, but it brings up some good points. As a believer/non you cant expect God to prevent everything evil that goes on in the world. And all the stuff that could have happened and didn't, we never hear about those. I'm a christian, and it might be a little unorthodox to say it, but I do see it as God sitting back and letting his little science experiment take course in laymans terms. Maybe he only interferes when he absolutely needs to. And when he wants a new start, he clears the slate and gives it another try (natural disasters).

Not a copypasta, it's just a really slow day at the office. I know I spend too much time on the internet when I'm almost honored that my argument was thought to be a copypasta.

[Seldini]

Aside from the typo in the first sentence, my statement makes a good amount of sense. Please, tell me what you don't understand and I'll gladly clarify.

I just don't understand why you have a question about who made the atoms... We know how atoms are made, and how the subatomic particles of the very early universe would have eventually cooled and formed hydrogen atoms, in term forming stars which went nova and dispersed heavier and heavier elements in turn. I don't see what the question is?

[Dollabill7]

Aliens

[iron_monster]

Evil still exists but I think Life is a test to see what you'll make of it. Wether you'll choose to help people and give back to the world or be selfish and degrade society. In the end you'll be judged for the decisions you make and how you live.

It's good everyone has there own beliefs

[XxmartinixX]

If you believe and you're wrong...nothing
If you believe and you're right...awesome
If you don't believe and you're wrong...


Even better argument

Im curious, guys that share this opinion.
Couldn't that be interpreted then that your faith isn't true. If you're doing it 'to be safe' surely you're essentially just doing it to cover your own ass and not because you genuinely believe..which could almost be seen as worse than outright not believing, to 'God'
I mean imagine a real life situation if you're in charge of employees...you would rather someone told you if they disagreed as opposed to lieing just to reap the benefits when it suits?