All Vets Who Want To See A Change On The Board, Pm Me!

**SupaNatural** · 12-04-2002, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by Big H
Just out of curiousity, while we are conjuring up the new rules, who would want to have YJ unbanned? i see about 10 people so far? Anyone else?

Give a bro a third strike, H.

Didn't know he was banned in the first place til I read this thread.

Again I commend you on your efforts to make a change for the better here.

**Twin Peak** · 12-04-2002, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by Supa Freek 420
I see your point Fu.

Some members do have that God complex that was described earlier. However many times when a newbie, teen or whatever is told to do a search, even politely, the reply is usually snide, along the lines of "in the time it took you to write that you could have answered my question," with the usual profane stream included. That is where the real flame wars start and where most of us feel it is necessary.

I don't by this argument. If that is a newbie response to a respectful pointing in the right direction, they should be banned immediately. There is no need for flaming t'all. On the board which I frequent most, almost without excpetion a newbie will apologize and explain that s/he will do the search and is then able to ask better questions. But we don't get many teens, so that may be the difference.

**dg806** · 12-04-2002, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by Big H
Just out of curiousity, while we are conjuring up the new rules, who would want to have YJ unbanned? i see about 10 people so far? Anyone else?

Ok, let me add my .02. I really don't know YJ very well, but I do know he is on several boards I frequent. I have read many posts by him, and even though I might not agree with everthing he has said and for some flaming I've seen, he is absolutely a positive factor for this board. He is very knowedgable and has a lot to contribute! Maybe if we do have some definate rules outlined, it would make a difference. Bring the bro back............

**SupaNatural** · 12-04-2002, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by Twin Peak
I don't by this argument. If that is a newbie response to a respectful pointing in the right direction, they should be banned immediately. There is no need for flaming t'all. On the board which I frequent most, almost without excpetion a newbie will apologize and explain that s/he will do the search and is then able to ask better questions. But we don't get many teens, so that may be the difference.

Some get the common sense knocked back into them. Many don't until they are manhandled. We have more mods now so maybe the banning will take place, but at the time it was few and far between. You should have seen some of the sh*t we had to put up with. If you want an example, look up chrisxiong or I think it was NO-FDBY-BS or something like that.

**dg806** · 12-04-2002, 05:36 PM

Chrisxiong-LMAO!!! Yep that would be a great example!

**SupaNatural** · 12-04-2002, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by dg806
Chrisxiong-LMAO!!! Yep that would be a great example!

I see you remember him too dg.

**dg806** · 12-04-2002, 05:48 PM

Oh yeah....could not forget him!

**Fudog1138** · 12-04-2002, 05:50 PM

BB.com took on a gaggle of dildons from another board that were pissed off about Big Cat smacking their guru (summers) around a while back. Though it was a bit stressfull at times, some awesome whoop ass was layed down on those jokers. So in retrospect it was a fun time. The fight was different then though. Fighting amongst ourselves just won't prove anything. No one of value's attitude in the gym is half assed, it shouldn't change when you come to this virtual coffee shop that we've all become a part of.
Well juice bar for a few of you. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

**97LT1** · 12-04-2002, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by Big H
Just out of curiousity, while we are conjuring up the new rules, who would want to have YJ unbanned? i see about 10 people so far? Anyone else?

I still stand by what i wrote in the thread he was banned on.

As my friend(Yes Bro, you are and always will be), i would like to see him unbanned.

**jweave23** · 12-04-2002, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by Big H
Just out of curiousity, while we are conjuring up the new rules, who would want to have YJ unbanned? i see about 10 people so far? Anyone else?

umm..................yep!

EDIT: In all seriousness, yes please unban YJ, besides being an all around great bro, his knowledge is great, and he will help anyone who tries to help themselves. And I'm glad you are taking the initiative for this discussion Big H.

**SirSavageX** · 12-04-2002, 06:24 PM

Unban YJ. He is not some newbie who asks stupid sh*t, he's a good guy who gives good advice. Sure, he can be rough around the edges, but that does not warrant a ban.

**John Benz** · 12-04-2002, 07:52 PM

Unban YJ!

**Twin Peak** · 12-04-2002, 07:56 PM

Yeah its something like 20 to 2.

**ManBeast** · 12-04-2002, 08:00 PM

YJ contributed way too much to this board to be banned over silly pissing contests....

ManBeast

**windwords7** · 12-04-2002, 08:05 PM

Hmmmm, seems like banning YJ was NOT in the best interest of the board or its members. Unban him already!

**Matthew D** · 12-04-2002, 08:48 PM

As so many have said before... YJ needs to be unbanned manly because of his contributions to the board. Also, I have read the thread that he was banned on.. IMO, he did what needed to be done.
UNBAN YJ.

**scotty2** · 12-04-2002, 08:59 PM

Must be unbanned entirely too knowledgeable, brings a lot to the table, including a horrendous attitude.

**CerealKiller** · 12-04-2002, 11:40 PM

Another vote to free Mandela I mean unban YJ. The contributions he makes far outweigh the occasional name calling episodes. Short of death threats I'm not a proponent of banning anyone. YJ's knowledge in nutrition and supplementation and his unique personality provide a great source of edutainment. I've learned alot from reading his articles here and at the "other" site and it would be a shame to lose him.

**wardog** · 12-05-2002, 04:22 AM

Will the man be unbanned already? Come on now...

Big H, what you are doing is the right thing to do. As far as some of the less experienced bros bitching about it, get over yourselves. Learn to research, and post respectfully and you will probably never get flamed. I have been on boards like this for almost 5 years, and have YET to get flamed for something I asked. The reason is, I research before I ask. As I stated, there is a wealth of info in the vets around here, and it is something the teens can learn from. Having some teen PM me and tell me "if your older than 25 you shouldn't be on boards like this"..is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard.

The best way to conduct yourself is to look at this the same way you do the gym. If you walk in and see 3-4 big guys by the squat rack (because thats where you find big boys..lol) would you walk up and ask even HALF of the stupid questions you post? I doubt it. Yet for some reason, people get in front of a computer screen and are suddenly "tough guys" I have more respect for some guy who posts that he is 140 and new to weight training, than some 16 year old posting what a bada*s he is in his signature.

The only thing almost as bad is some bro becoming a mod, and his whole attitude changing. to THOSE mods..it is the INTERNET for God's sake. Being a mod isn't going to change your life, make you more popular, or get more ladies interested in you in the real world. You may say that the vets shouldn't handle things the way they do, and I tell you "We have now tried it YOUR way" The results of YOUR way are that most of the vets have left. You are left with semi-experienced guys giving sometimes completely WRONG advice to the newbies. These newbies then go off posting the wrong advice because they are trying to pretend THEY know what the hell they are talking about. I remember less than a year ago, when someone got out of hand, the vets decended on him like a pack of wolves. Each of us had the others back. This board was a place with a LOT of good info coming out of it, and a LOT of experimentation. Then the "play nice" BB.com came..and the results speak for themselves.

I have said it before, and will say it again. Bodybuilding isn't easy. Nobodys natural instinct is to put 350 pounds on a squat rack and rep it out. It hurts, it sucks and it really is NO fun, compared to sitting at a bar talking up a cutie. If someone does not have the mental fortitude to take a good "smack" (or flame) and grow from it, then they certainly do not have what it takes to expose themselves to grueling workouts day after day after day. They will wash out of the game. Those that stay in this game have a certain "edge" to them. That edge is what makes us drop another 10 on the bar and go for one more set. It is the little guys who lift for a year, and look no different, that sit whining and crying.

Obviously the decision is not mine to make. Big H is trying something I feel is needed, however if he doesn't have the support of his fellow mods, I don't see much happening.

**wardog** · 12-05-2002, 04:28 AM

Originally posted by 97LT1
I still stand by what i wrote in the thread he was banned on.

As my friend(Yes Bro, you are and always will be), i would like to see him unbanned.

How you can call YJ a friend, and yet knife him in your other posts..remains a mystery to me. I prefer to not have friends like that.

Just how I see it bro.

**Scorpio** · 12-05-2002, 04:56 AM

WARDOG, whats up bro? glad to see you still come around every once in a while.

YJ banned again? Man we can't leave you alone for 5min can we!LOL! but on a serious note.....I think that YJ is a knowledgeable bro, who contributes good information to these boards. I don't know exactly what happened, but I do know YJ has a tendency to say whats on his mind. Just want the mods to consider unbanning a bro who has dropped much knowledge on many of us.

**Original Poster** · 12-05-2002, 05:05 AM

Originally posted by wardog
Will the man be unbanned already? Come on now...

Big H, what you are doing is the right thing to do. As far as some of the less experienced bros bitching about it, get over yourselves. Learn to research, and post respectfully and you will probably never get flamed. I have been on boards like this for almost 5 years, and have YET to get flamed for something I asked. The reason is, I research before I ask. As I stated, there is a wealth of info in the vets around here, and it is something the teens can learn from. Having some teen PM me and tell me "if your older than 25 you shouldn't be on boards like this"..is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard.

The best way to conduct yourself is to look at this the same way you do the gym. If you walk in and see 3-4 big guys by the squat rack (because thats where you find big boys..lol) would you walk up and ask even HALF of the stupid questions you post? I doubt it. Yet for some reason, people get in front of a computer screen and are suddenly "tough guys" I have more respect for some guy who posts that he is 140 and new to weight training, than some 16 year old posting what a bada*s he is in his signature.

The only thing almost as bad is some bro becoming a mod, and his whole attitude changing. to THOSE mods..it is the INTERNET for God's sake. Being a mod isn't going to change your life, make you more popular, or get more ladies interested in you in the real world. You may say that the vets shouldn't handle things the way they do, and I tell you "We have now tried it YOUR way" The results of YOUR way are that most of the vets have left. You are left with semi-experienced guys giving sometimes completely WRONG advice to the newbies. These newbies then go off posting the wrong advice because they are trying to pretend THEY know what the hell they are talking about. I remember less than a year ago, when someone got out of hand, the vets decended on him like a pack of wolves. Each of us had the others back. This board was a place with a LOT of good info coming out of it, and a LOT of experimentation. Then the "play nice" BB.com came..and the results speak for themselves.

I have said it before, and will say it again. Bodybuilding isn't easy. Nobodys natural instinct is to put 350 pounds on a squat rack and rep it out. It hurts, it sucks and it really is NO fun, compared to sitting at a bar talking up a cutie. If someone does not have the mental fortitude to take a good "smack" (or flame) and grow from it, then they certainly do not have what it takes to expose themselves to grueling workouts day after day after day. They will wash out of the game. Those that stay in this game have a certain "edge" to them. That edge is what makes us drop another 10 on the bar and go for one more set. It is the little guys who lift for a year, and look no different, that sit whining and crying.

Obviously the decision is not mine to make. Big H is trying something I feel is needed, however if he doesn't have the support of his fellow mods, I don't see much happening.

Wardog,

BRAVO !

On YJ, he has only himself to blame for being banned IMO.
He was given a chance before. What is this the three strikes and your out program and he only has two strikes ? Believe it or not, I'm one who hated to see YJ and his knowledge leave or get banned. A vet's knowledge and contibutions have always allowed them a little slack when it comes to flames and such. And anyone that denies that is sleeping IMO.

Has it been enough slack lately...........I say NO. That's what we are trying to change. Giving more slack to the members is the big issue here. And it looks to me that some positive changes will come about. Will the changes make everyone happy.....BE REAL.

Would I like to see YJ unbanned ? I'm not sure. Actually yes, but only if he chills. But I doubt that would happen. I don't think it's in his rebel nature to change on these matters, but I could be wrong on this. His knowledge was a big contribution to these forums.

But I ask....... What price is knowledge worth, YJ's or anybody's for that matter.

But should respected vets be allowed to do as they please. NO ! Some vets feel that just because they are more knowledgable on a subject, that they'll be damned before they will heed a mods warning to chill, or cool it a bit. THIS IS DEAD WRONG and bad for this forum. There is a line that the vets, mods, everyone needs to learn, NOT TO CROSS. That's been YJ's Problem IMO. He acts as if he is above the group. HE is NOT A GOD, but a bodybuilder and an overall very knowledgable person IMO. There are a ton of knowledgable people here, some vets, some mods, and yes even some newbies. Educational flaming I'm all for. Showing total disrespect for rules and mods, I'M NOT. Losing up on the rules as it pertains to flaming is a good thing IMO

.

I'm not insinuating that mods deserve respect , but the job Ryan has asked them to do, SHOULD be. And when a mod makes a mistake in judgement (as we all do, we are human), that does not give a member the right to NOT heed his future warnings because they do not repect that mod. This will end up with that member being banned.

The bulk of you post I agree with especially your points on educational flaming.

As far as Big H having mod support for this.
He DOES. I'm behind him 1000%
The mods have been discussing this alot lately.

PEACE

**snakeman** · 12-05-2002, 05:25 AM

hey bro's and good friends;

last i checked this is the united states, and freedom of speech is 1 of our most important amendments.
now we all make mistakes in judgement, but yj stated how he felt and in what he believes, we can not hold this as a banning issue. i have seen numerous threads that have gotten alot worse than this one, in which he was banned. i consider yj a close and personal friend, and he is truely knowledgable. give him another go. we are losing alot of wisdom, even though he is young i wished i had half the knowledge that he possessed.

chi ; bro you and i are tight, and youhave always been fair, i asking you to get with the mods to bring yj back.we need to stay together, so we can make this board what it can be. big h is on the right track. peace don.

**wardog** · 12-05-2002, 05:25 AM

Bro, with all respect, I read the thread YJ was banned on, and I could see those posts coming from myself, the "old" K(same) and quite a few other vets. To have some snot nosed kid with NO command of the english language making stupid statements just gets your blood boiling. Just like many others, there are mods I respect, and those I don't. Want to look at flame wars? Take a look at the old K(same) and Big Cat discussions. That was some serious flamethrower work..lol!

Personalities are personalities. Have we had some "conflicts" at the "other" board..sure. What happens there is that BDC asks if any of us are close to that person, and to talk to him..friend to friend. It works. Having someone you don't respect coming down on you tends to just make it worse. It is called diplomacy. You and I had an issue, I respect you, and the issue was resolved. A mod I didn't respect PMed me, the result would probably have been totally different.

Being a mod is not an easy job , not if done correctly. To sit on your high horse and say "I am a mod..and you will listen" isn't the way to go. Considering personalities and relationships on this board, and the best way to accomplish your goal..is.

**Original Poster** · 12-05-2002, 05:49 AM

Originally posted by wardog
Bro, with all respect, I read the thread YJ was banned on, and I could see those posts coming from myself, the "old" K(same) and quite a few other vets. To have some snot nosed kid with NO command of the english language making stupid statements just gets your blood boiling. Just like many others, there are mods I respect, and those I don't. Want to look at flame wars? Take a look at the old K(same) and Big Cat discussions. That was some serious flamethrower work..lol!

Personalities are personalities. Have we had some "conflicts" at the "other" board..sure. What happens there is that BDC asks if any of us are close to that person, and to talk to him..friend to friend. It works. Having someone you don't respect coming down on you tends to just make it worse. It is called diplomacy. You and I had an issue, I respect you, and the issue was resolved. A mod I didn't respect PMed me, the result would probably have been totally different.

Being a mod is not an easy job , not if done correctly. To sit on your high horse and say "I am a mod..and you will listen" isn't the way to go. Considering personalities and relationships on this board, and the best way to accomplish your goal..is.

God, those days between K(same) and BC were fun weren't they.
To be quite honest, I don't even know exactly what thread and posts YJ was banned for. Could someone point me to it so I could read it.

I see your point on how people respond to people they don't respect vs. the people they do. Point taken. In those instances, I think most mods have recognised a member does not like or respect them and usually will ask another mod to handle an issue if it arises with that member (if they need a warning). Usually, but not always is this the case.

You are correct, It's about diplomacy and it's a tough issue IMO.

What I will point out is some people will have issue with any and all mods. Especially, mods who may warn them. After they've gone through almost the whole group of mods, who's left to warn them........RYAN ? I think not. Some people will not respect authority or rules, period and feel they are above them. THAT is WHAT I"m saying MUST stop.

Snake, I hear ya, but this is more complicated than most think.

These discussions and exchanges on this and other issues are great IMO. Wardog, you have my respect as you have always been one of the watchDOGS

on this forum. Please continue to do so.

What I ask all members and mods to do is........Remember we are all human and make mistakes and it doesn't hurrt to admit when we are wrong and to learn from our mistakes. This forum is a place where we all have a common tie. We bodybuild, we train and are serious about or nutrition & supplementation and overall health. We just need to treat others the way we would wish to be treated. If more of us do that, this forum would be a bettter place.

PEACE

**Fudog1138** · 12-05-2002, 07:08 AM

Pioneering is never easy. If we want to make this place the ideal virtual meeting spot then there are going to be some growing pains. I think we can all agree on that point. Rules are in the stickies that no one reads, well most don�t anyway. When you first sign up for an account here are you referred to those stickies? May be something that we could suggest to Ryan and then to his IT people.

With regards to a three strike rule. Think of that implication long term. Would it fairly apply in all cases or would there be certain rules set up to define an acceptable unbanning?
Is it a peer consensus vote or a unanimous vote by mods?

I know some of those questions seem a bit tedious, but do they have to be defined if were going to be successful in changing?

O/T Wardog,
I don�t see 97LT1 as backstabbing for expressing his honest opinion. That was a bit harsh IMO.

**dio** · 12-05-2002, 07:39 AM

I think the tone of the board started to change right around the time K started mellowing out. Maybe it's a coincidence, but I think that played a part.

I also remember people talking about "newbie hunting" which does not strike me as tough love, but more of a form of entertainement. I think that's what made Ryan finally get involved and when the stronger flaming rules started.

I would prefer seeing more leeway for answering stupid questions -- since it makes lurkers and other posters think twice before they ask something. OTOH, I do not mind answering a couple of creatine or other basic questions per day. There will always be new people on the board and having active discussions on older issues will help them. I don't get pissed until I see 3 threads on the same subject on the same page. I've unloaded several times in that situation.

Again, right or wrong, people should respect reasonable requests from the mods -- sometimes to just help keep the peace.

I'm sorry to see so many leave, but that is their choice. It's not hard to maintain a presence on several boards -- so I think it's possible that many will return.

Oh yeah and free YJ. I'm not done arguing with him yet

**Original Poster** · 12-05-2002, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by dio
I think the tone of the board started to change right around the time K started mellowing out. Maybe it's a coincidence, but I think that played a part.

So do I BRO, so do I.

In a lot of ways, I think guys like YJ were filling the void left by K(same) and others. And I think that is a healthy thing, a changing of the guard in a way. (K, don't get mad at that, Your still the MAN LOL

) But I think the line for a while was being pushed to far......and that caused Ryan to call for a crackdown. I think the crackdown may have been taken too far and though it was with good intentions that it was called for, it may have done more harm than good. Unperceived Consequences arose. That is what leads us to where we are today, trying to work things out and make this forum better.

PEACE

**Big Daddy Chemo** · 12-05-2002, 01:23 PM

Running a discussion board is hard work no matter what motivation prompts the creation. Whether you call meso (long live meso!) home or bb.com the fact still remains that the general order and atmosphere of the forum is set by the mods and vets. How many redundant questions do you see on other serious forums? Go to gotfina and ask a stupid conversion question that is clearly in a sticky or meso and pose a dbol only cycle.

IMO, this is all a feedback cycle that has redundant questions as the root of evil. Some newbie asks whether creatine can be snorted and a vet responds in a less than eloquent manner out of frustration. This causes the a flame exchange that has typified this board over the past few months.

So what can be done to turn this ship around? Try to implement some standard responses like posting a link to the sticky that has the information instead of a flame. This cuts down on the exchanges and does not make the newbie flee in terror. Hell, turn it into a game to see who is the fastest on the draw in posting the correct link. Over time this will let newbies know the routine (research) and that the information is indeed available.

Imagine this...a newbie question is posed and instead of a flame a link is posted instead. No flame exchange and no vets / mods / bros fighting about flaming a newbie. WOW! What a difference it would make for the bb.com forum atmosphere!

The point to my rather long post is that solutions are hard to find and will seldom satisfy all. Do the most good for the most bros and it will be alright in the morning

Instead of treating the symptoms attack the root cause. This plan of action may take longer to implement and see results but will be a permanent improvement to the forum. Big H, you are on the right track though...identify the problem and then eliminate it methodically.

Now, as everyone knows I have my own forum but this does not cloud my desire to make bb.com a better home for all. Knowledge is free and should remain so...but, must also have an atmosphere for sharing it too.

Chemo

BTW, UNBAN YJ!

**Fudog1138** · 12-05-2002, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by Big Daddy Chemo
.... Some newbie asks whether creatine can be snorted and a vet responds in a less than eloquent manner out of frustration. This causes the a flame exchange that has typified this board over the past few months...
BTW, UNBAN YJ!

That idiot deserved to get fried. I support your idea of standard responses though.

Thread: All Vets Who Want To See A Change On The Board, Pm Me!

Thread Tools

Search Thread

Let's get with it now.

My $0.02...

Re: My $0.02...

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions