About SLEEP - You will be shocked.

[costa99]

Great Read. Awesome Thread!

[MUFC92]

This is brilliant. Thank you for your time.

[Nico987]

Very interesting post

[NoahhM]

So... If you repeat these cycles throughout the night, doesn't that mean you'd go back to light sleep(where your still aware of your surroundings) after you finish each cycle?

[Freeko55]

If only they made alarm clocks that could sense what stage you are on and would go off on the last possible completed cycle

[Foliage]

If only they made alarm clocks that could sense what stage you are on and would go off on the last possible completed cycle

There are about 20 different products on the market that already do this. Google it.

[Jeeed]

This is nice-- there's a little semi-off info that could maybe use some changing or adding-to; not a big deal though. Just thought I might contribute a bit of knowledge.

If you wake up and fall back asleep, you can fall back to the same stage if it's within 5-10 minutes of waking up. For example, if you wake up early in the morning during REM sleep and stay in bed then fall back asleep, that tends to be the time people have the most dreaming. Erections from sleeping also occur at the start of REM sleep-- with some skill, it's possible to lapse directly into REM sleep after waking up but still be conscious. It's sort of a form of sleep paralysis and it's a little scary. Your limbs start to become paralyzed, heart rate speeds up, and the erection has a pretty quick onset. I've been able to do it a few times, but most times I freak out too much at the onset that I get out of it. You can also experience pretty amazing hallucinations during this time (a lot of people think this explains why people experience "alien abductions").]

Stage 1 sleep is when people tend to have strange thoughts (similar to dreaming, but still conscious) that they control but make little sense (hypnagogic illusions). Also during this stage is when people experience phenomena such as hypnagogic jerks and the illusions I just mentioned.

Stage 4 sleep is probably the most important stage for any bodybuilders; it occurs only twice during sleep, but it's the period in which the mind is almost completely shut off and the hypothalamus releases a ton of growth hormones which is necessary for muscle repair.

The most important thing about getting adequate sleep is a enough of both physical (which im sure everyone here gets) and mental stimulation throughout the day. I've experienced this myself just over the past few days. Now that I'm on break and rarely studying I'm getting pretty crappy sleep, while when I have a ton of work during the schoolweek I sleep like a baby.

[WaydayRaima]

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[RoroCwalker]

Is it an issue if we change our sleeping schedule?
For school, I slept at 10 pm and woke up at 7 am, about 9 hours of sleep.
But now since the holidays I'm sleeping at 3:30 am and waking up at 12:30pm, about 9 hours of sleep.
Does it have any negative effects on my workout?
The thing is that I workout at 5 pm, which is about 4 hours after I wake up.
But during school, I had a full 10 hours before I wake up.
Any influence?

[Foliage]

No issue at all.

[advancedfit]

this thread is interesting

[BradCathie]

Might have to take advantage of this because I always want to go back to sleep but I have so many things that wake me up. Work, my bedroom is near the toilet, parents and sister waking up before me, etc. It's so annoying to think the cycle must start all over again :/

[nealbha]

Looks good, im going to try this tomorrow, I need about 8 hours of sleep and in that 8 hours i go through about 5 and a half cycles so ill go to sleep at a certain time and set an alarm so its right in the middle of the 2nd stage so i feel refreshed etc etc Hope this works

[Teen-Body-Build]

Okay so first of all, this is a long thread but please take your time reading this as it took me hours to write and edit; you won't regret it, I promise you.

So I have recently stumbled upon lots of people here who say "Even though I sleep 8-9 hours, I'm still tired." and a lot of others who just generally believe that more sleep = more energy + better well-being.

This is NOT TRUE.

When you go to sleep, your body enters different "stages" of sleep. There are 5 overall stages and together they count as 1 "cycle". During the night, these cycles keep repeating until you wake up. 1 cycle lasts approximately 90 minutes but it varies from person to person. You might think this is nonsense but keep reading, you will benefit greatly.

THE IMPORTANT THING: There are 2 ways in which you can wake up. Full of energy and positivity or completely tired with a bad mood. These 2 are NOT a result of either sleeping more or less; they are a result of you either waking up at the end of a particular cycle, or cancelling a cycle by being interrupted by an external source. Read below.

If you finish a cycle successfully and wake up, you will feel brilliant, full of energy and positivity. If your cycle is interrupted by an external source (you wanting to pee, parents/friends waking you up), you will feel terrible / grumpy and you will feel like you need "more sleep". Also, if in some mornings you wake up full of energy (which means you have just finished a cycle), and then force yourself to sleep more, there's a good chance you won't finish that newly entered cycle since you're just lazing about for 10 minutes and that will result in you waking up feeling tired again. And this is not just about waking up tired; this is about how your energy will be used throughout your entire day.

Side note 1: Sometimes you will find yourself lucky in a way that even though someone wakes you up which is an interruption, you will be at the end of a cycle so you'll feel good. Don't bet on it though, the chances of someone waking you up right at the end of a cycle is pretty low.

THE WHOLE POINT: The whole point is that even though most people need a particular number of cycles which add up to 8 hours (hence they say "You need 8 hours of sleep minimum"), it doesn't mean YOU need the 8 hours. Everyone is different and there are a few famous people who only need a small amount of cycles in order to replenish their energy, therefore they only sleep 2-3 hours daily which is phenomenal (imagine all the time saved). A cycle usually lasts 90 minutes, so just remember, if you wake up at the end of one, that's when you'll feel like a king. Your body might need 5, 6, 7 hours... You never know... If you naturally wake up earlier than most people (without interruptions), that will mean you need less cycles than most people. In that case, there's nothing wrong with you, you can just get up and enjoy a longer day .

Side note 2: Even if you woke up after 1 cycle (90 minutes), you would still feel energetic even though your body definitely needs a lot more cycles in order to engage in important activities such as muscle growth. Waking up & feeling good isn't everything.

SO HOW DO I KNOW WHEN I'M SUPPOSED TO WAKE UP?
This is easy. You need to eliminate all possible external sources which can wake you, including the urge to pee, so just drink water slightly earlier in the day so you urinate before bed. If there are no interruptions, your body will automatically wake you up at the end of your very own cycle; that's when you should get up.

For the next part I'll be using wikipedia to slightly help me out with the numbers, read only if you're REALLY interested :

*** More Scientific Part ***

Types & Percentages of Sleep In Stages:

• Stage 1 & 2: Light sleep; together, these two stages account for 50% of all sleeping time.
• Stage 3 & 4: Deep sleep; together, these two stages account for 25% of all sleeping time.
• Stage 5 (REM stage) – this stage represents the remaining 25% of all sleeping time.

Stage Functions:

Stage 1: Our heart rate and breathing become slower. If something wakes you up during this stage, you can easily believe that you haven’t fallen asleep at all as you are still highly aware of your surroundings.

Stage 2: This stage defines the beginning of true sleep. This is also the stage in which most people loose their awareness. The muscles become relaxed and the body stops moving.

Stage 3: Similar to Stage 4.

Stage 4: This is the deepest stage of sleep. Blood pressure drops; heart and breathing rate are decreased and stabilized.

Stage 5 - Rapid Eye Movement (REM): This is a special stage of sleep during which our brains become extremely active. Blood pressure increases, breathing becomes faster and irregular. The eyes start to dart back and forth. Most of our dreaming occurs in this stage. Because we might hurt ourselves while trying to move in response to the content of our dreams, the brain completely blocks our muscles.

The above 5 steps I copied ages ago from a legit site but can't remember which one, now I just edited them and rewrote them so they're more understandable. Don't be surprised if you recognise them. The rest is purely written by me.

I hope you've enjoyed reading this; just thought I'd share some useful information.

Edit: A source that slightly helped me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep

Edit 2: By the way, interruptions may include vibrations of some kind, scary dreams, erections, people waking you up, wanting to urinate, traffic noise, the "biological clock" etc. I studied and experimented with these things carefully a while back as I was greatly interested in sleep cycles, that is how I know everything.

Edit 3: If a cycle is broken (disturbed) and you go back to sleep, that cycle will NOT continue. A new one will begin.

Questions are welcome!

A sticky would be great. Thank you .

Just fully read this in class. I worked out (back/bis) tuesday night. I got to sleep at 4,30 am and clocked a total of about 3 and a half hours. I woke up today feeling fairly refreshed and not too tired. I'm assuming I completed 2 cycles. Is 2 cycles enough for muslce growth/recovery? It's not a regular basis of course, would one nights cycle effect muscle growth/recovery? Say you get 5 cycles in the next night, would that make up for the previous night where muscle growth is concerned? Hope you manage to read this and respond, you know your sh**! Thanks.

[Ludicrous]

Great thread man, but I have a question. If a cycle lasts 90 minutes, there's no way I can guarantee that I will be waking up right at the end of a cycle, because I don't know how fast i'll fall asleep, right? So what's the solution to that?

[Foliage]

Great thread man, but I have a question. If a cycle lasts 90 minutes, there's no way I can guarantee that I will be waking up right at the end of a cycle, because I don't know how fast i'll fall asleep, right? So what's the solution to that?

Buy a mobile phone with an accelerometer or a one of those devices you put on your wrist that detects when you are in REM and wakes you up accordingly.

[Ludicrous]

Buy a mobile phone with an accelerometer or a one of those devices you put on your wrist that detects when you are in REM and wakes you up accordingly.

I have one of those programs on my iphone, but it doesn't do **** hahah. Are those devices really worth buying?

[Foliage]

I have one of those programs on my iphone, but it doesn't do **** hahah. Are those devices really worth buying?

The good ones apparently are.

[samw93]

insomniaa!

[mdy228]

Good post brotha.

This semester of college (which was my first), I usually got 3-4.5 hours of sleep and this was not problem because I learned to wake up at the end of my sleep cycle.

[bri1hv]

nice forum

[th1nk]

I have one of those programs on my iphone, but it doesn't do **** hahah. Are those devices really worth buying?

I will try this app (Sleep Cycle) tonight, i want to try it ^^

[Brendon1215]

Good thread. We discussed the differences between REM & NREM in my psychology class. It's pretty interesting.

[nonagon]

I was really hoping this article would be about how it's okay for me not sleep at all some nights. How will I ever make up for my procrastination on school work now without giving up my health? AH WELL.

[gillG]

Great thread, my neurologist said that there are also the occasional person who can slip into REM sleep much quicker and therefore can do things like muscle growth etc. with only said 5hrs of sleep

[Agumon]

Also, can it make you depressed if you continually wake up in the middle of a cycle?

Recently I will set my alarm for 8 or 9 (7 hours of sleep) and feel a bit too tired to get up. So I sleep for another 60-90 mins and then when I wake up (not sure if naturally or because of noise) I feel like crap and am in a bad mood for the day. Been happening like this for weeks now and just wondering if this could be causing depressed moods or if its just stress from exams.

Anyone else find this?

Yes, that happens.

is supplementing with melatonin a good idea?

No.

so based on a average person which is 90 min per cycle, if u get 7 and a half hours of sleep u wont interupt a cycle. like if i got to bed at 10 and i set my alarm clock at 530. thats all 5 cyles 90 minutes each. is that what u are tryin to say and what people should try to do?

Yes, but get more than 5 cycles.

Since I always feel weak and tired in the morning yesterday I tried going to sleep earlier.

I started sleeping at 23.00, alarm at 6.45.
I didn't wake up during the night, as far as I can remember.

I woke up thanks to the alarm at 6.45.

Does this mean I need even more time to sleep than 7.5 hours?
I have to wake up at 6.45 for school.

Should I try going to bed at 22.00 to see if I can wake up without the alarm?

Yes.

wondering if someone can shed some light and help me here.

i used to go to bed on school days at around 10:30pm and got up at 7am and felt ok tbh, but then other stuff got in my way and it got later and later. around 2 months ago i started going to bed at 12am and still getting up the same time on schooldays at 7am. I felt tired, but adjusted over time.

Now, its the holidays. For some reason, i went to bed even later like 1am for a few days, and couldnt snap out of the habit. Because i didnt have to get up in the morning, i slept in until literally like 11am. I am still in this cycle. Because i am waking up so late, i start my day so late and dont go to bed until late.

Hoowever, i am getting more sleep than on schooldays, but im going to bed later. But, i am actually MORE tired now that im getting MORE sleep. The only difference is im going to bed later and waking up later.

Why is this if anyone knows?? Do i simply need to go to bed earlier? Is there a difference?

Yes, there is a difference. Sleep earlier.

I can't get uninterrupted sleep. I always wake up during the night 1-2 times and it makes me feel very tired in the morning. Any tip?

When you wake up, try get back into sleep and make it a habit.

Does 1 cycle begin instantly after the last or is there like a short break?

It's gradual.

So as long as u complete a cycle which is 5 stages of sleep and then wake up you won't feel so bad compared to if you wake up in the middle of a cycle.


How do u really find out what your actual cycle is? since it ranges from 60- 120 mins.

Experiment.

How do i adjust my sleeping length? i used to sleep more than eight hours but now due to work and school, i must sleep seven hours , what timing should i sleep for maximum hormone and energy produced?

Generally the more the better, but use common sense.

so is 7 hours enough for me?

I agree on this my cousin that's a seaman sleeps only 4 - 5 hrs a day yet he wakes up feeling "full charged". I have one question though.. how long would it take for your tissues to repair during sleep?

Everyone is different.

I end up waking up a few times through the night,and try to end off an a cycle but it doesn't always happen..

Try learning not waking up and make it a habit.

Just wondering,my sleeps schedule is completely wack,but if I take a few naps throughout the day and sleep like a normal person later that day,is that fine?Lets say a 3hour a nap and a regular 6hour sleep..would that be good for muscle growth as well?

Sorry if this has been asked before, but if someone could answer this, it would be great.

I completely understand that oversleeping may result in a groggy wake up, due to waking up during a sleep cycle, and at certain times you can wake up, you will feel great.

But besides that initial wake up feeling, are there any negative factors of sleeping longer than one might need? Wouldn't sleeping longer still benefit muscular recovery, and the immune system, and all that?

Yes, but there is a limit.

Nice thread,and I have a question,its kinda wierd,but almost everytime i wake up in the morning,i have erection,and i have no idea why,is that abnormal ? any idea what could it be ?

It's normal.

does the time matter?
for example sleeping at 1am and waking up at 10am as suppose to sleeping at 10pm and waking up at 7am?

It matters. Choose 10pm.

since Saturday I have been falling asleep then 2-3 hours later, wake up and can't go back to bed until hours later.. do you know the cause of this? I tried melatonin, but it did not work. I'd go the marijuana route, but I get drug tested. I can't seem to sleep a perfect 6-8 hours without waking up.

Go to sleep earlier and don't use substances.

Is 14 hours of sleep per day good too?

Everyone is different, but that seems like too much.

Hello,

I like to workout in the morning from 7 am to 9 am and after that i feel so dizzy. I don't even like to move my hands from one place to other place while i take complete sleep of around 7 hours in night. Do i need some energy capsules to boost up my energy level or it is obvious thing?

Get more sleep if you need energy.

On weekends I find it very difficult to wake up at a reasonable time. I'm a teen and obviously growing, but I find it much more difficult than waking up on school days. (This is not when I have had a big night before hand)

Go to sleep earlier.

Is it really a big problem for muscle-growth if i go up and pee 1 time in the night? Sorry if this question has already been asked but don't wanna go through 22 pages.

No, it's not a problem.

what if im sleeping like 10 hours a day? is that ok?
coz sometimes i sleep like 10-11 hours, but still when i wake up, im tired and my eyes cant handle it.

Experiment and see what fits you best.

so.... from what i read you're supposed to let your body naturally wake itself up without any other distractions?? What if you work, or go to school and have to get up at 7 in the morning?? And in the summer i got to sleep as much as i wanted and i woke up naturally at random times, sometimes 9, sometimes 10 and i still felt like ****, un king-like.

Quality of sleep is important, not just the length. Make sure you get deep sleep and your environment is calm and cooled.

Really good info thx man , but here is my question... How much hours does our body need , to be "rested" or to be able to perform physical activities?

Everyone is different. The average is 8 hours+.

Very interesting, good info you made there but do you have the reason to this then; when you don't sleep at least a couple of hours, like 4-5 you get a bad headache? huh.. ever happened to you guys?

Yes, it happens. Get more sleep.

Brilliant info! But i have a question or two, I tend to always wake up tired even when I wake up naturally, but recently, no matter what time I've gone to bed I seem to wake up about 5 in the morning, should I get up? Would that make me feel better?
Also, if i go to the gym tired, would i be able to build muscle as quickly if i went not tired?

Go to bed earlier to sleep better.

No, because when you're tired you can't lift as much.

I personally have trouble waking up 2-3 times to piss at night. I finish working out at ~8 to 830pm and sleep about 10-11pm. I don't drink any water after my workout, end up going to bed thirsty with a dry mouth, yet still have to wake up to piss a few times.

Wake up dehydrated as **** with brown piss and have to scull half a litre of water. If I drink more I have to piss even more.

Ideas?

Don't go to bed thirsty. Urinating at night is not a problem, it generally doesn't affect cycles because you can slip back into a cycle if you urinate quickly. However, if you want to stop urinating at night, learn not to do it at night even if you feel like you need to. Your body will get used to it over time.

This is nice-- there's a little semi-off info that could maybe use some changing or adding-to; not a big deal though. Just thought I might contribute a bit of knowledge.

If you wake up and fall back asleep, you can fall back to the same stage if it's within 5-10 minutes of waking up. For example, if you wake up early in the morning during REM sleep and stay in bed then fall back asleep, that tends to be the time people have the most dreaming. Erections from sleeping also occur at the start of REM sleep-- with some skill, it's possible to lapse directly into REM sleep after waking up but still be conscious. It's sort of a form of sleep paralysis and it's a little scary. Your limbs start to become paralyzed, heart rate speeds up, and the erection has a pretty quick onset. I've been able to do it a few times, but most times I freak out too much at the onset that I get out of it. You can also experience pretty amazing hallucinations during this time (a lot of people think this explains why people experience "alien abductions").]

Stage 1 sleep is when people tend to have strange thoughts (similar to dreaming, but still conscious) that they control but make little sense (hypnagogic illusions). Also during this stage is when people experience phenomena such as hypnagogic jerks and the illusions I just mentioned.

Stage 4 sleep is probably the most important stage for any bodybuilders; it occurs only twice during sleep, but it's the period in which the mind is almost completely shut off and the hypothalamus releases a ton of growth hormones which is necessary for muscle repair.

The most important thing about getting adequate sleep is a enough of both physical (which im sure everyone here gets) and mental stimulation throughout the day. I've experienced this myself just over the past few days. Now that I'm on break and rarely studying I'm getting pretty crappy sleep, while when I have a ton of work during the schoolweek I sleep like a baby.

Great information, repped+.

[Agumon]

Just fully read this in class. I worked out (back/bis) tuesday night. I got to sleep at 4,30 am and clocked a total of about 3 and a half hours. I woke up today feeling fairly refreshed and not too tired. I'm assuming I completed 2 cycles. Is 2 cycles enough for muslce growth/recovery? It's not a regular basis of course, would one nights cycle effect muscle growth/recovery? Say you get 5 cycles in the next night, would that make up for the previous night where muscle growth is concerned? Hope you manage to read this and respond, you know your sh**! Thanks.

No, getting 5 cycles the next night will not make up for the lost night before. 2 cycles isn't enough.

Great thread man, but I have a question. If a cycle lasts 90 minutes, there's no way I can guarantee that I will be waking up right at the end of a cycle, because I don't know how fast i'll fall asleep, right? So what's the solution to that?

Consider 15 minutes of falling asleep time in your calculations.

Good post brotha.

This semester of college (which was my first), I usually got 3-4.5 hours of sleep and this was not problem because I learned to wake up at the end of my sleep cycle.

It's not enough for a healthy lifestyle. Get more sleep.

Great thread, my neurologist said that there are also the occasional person who can slip into REM sleep much quicker and therefore can do things like muscle growth etc. with only said 5hrs of sleep

Yes, this is very rare.

[hoffmanxtreme]

I honestly had no clue about sleep cycles until I read this thread. Excellant! Thank you for all the good info.

[anuragp122195]

Is there a such thing as too much sleep? Weekends off from school=sleep until 1-2pm Haha