Question to Alan Aragon regarding nutrient timing.

[PJR23]

wow. 4 pages and still awaits response.
Note to self: Next time i have a question and need responses, i need to put AA's name in the title.

edit: 5 pages

[JohnBrowne]

That isn't false. Brad Pilon addresses this in his book and he uses a bunch of research done by Norrelund. Here's one particular study done by another gentleman that he references:



Hartman ML, et al. Augmented growth hormone (GH) secretory burst frequency and amplitude mediate enhanced CH secretion during a two-day fast in normal men. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism 1992; 74(4):757-765

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1548337

GH rises during a fast... that's hardly groundbreaking research. But GH =/= T3/T4

[Vigilante_Inc]

wow. 4 pages and still awaits response.
Note to self: Next time i have a question and need responses, i need to put AA's name in the title.

edit: 5 pages

That's because everywhere Alan shows up honest info always follows... Truth as we all know is a rare thing on this board

[zepplin92]

In .

[Cinekydo]

Yeah... In

[WilWander]

Sorry about that, I agree about the term being quite broad. But I was referring to nutrient timing in a sense of ingesting certain macronutrients at certain times, like when the body is most catabolic carbohydrates should be ingested during these times etc.

Haha, and I was just being pedantic.

[Joseph1990]

Oh Alan, Wherefore art thou?

[alan aragon]

Oh Alan, Wherefore art thou?

Just finished my monthly thesis. Now I have clients tapping their fingers waiting for my email response.

As far as this thread goes, there's really not much else to add to the response I already gave (see post #83). I'll try & think of something more poignant & sexy, but I have to take care of client work 1st.

[SydTheKid]

Just finished my monthly thesis. Now I have clients tapping their fingers waiting for my email response.

As far as this thread goes, there's really not much else to add to the response I already gave (see post #83). I'll try & think of something more poignant & sexy, but I have to take care of client work 1st.

This AARR was brotastic like all the other ones, brb working on undergrad in Broscience

[juliacheh]

I'll try & think of something more poignant & sexy, but I have to take care of client work 1st.

[RealMenDeadLift]

GH rises during a fast... that's hardly groundbreaking research. But GH =/= T3/T4

Heightened catecholamine levels is a common response to fasting.

[Ghosting]

No... it doesn't.

Please read #4

http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top...-debunked.html
Thus metabolic rate is increased in short-term fasting (up to 60 hours).

This is only the 2nd post of yours I have read and both were wrong. You are one of those people that posts as if you are sure you are right. It is disturbing. Please stop.

[Ghosting]

GH rises during a fast.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=131789903

So now it does? Post #11.

[MikeK46]

It rises when fasting, falls when eating. Who cares? The higher it rises while you fast, the harder it will fall when you have your big meal, right? These up & down fluctuations are irrelevant. It's the total area under the curve that has significance.

[JohnBrowne]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=131789903

So now it does? Post #11.

Do you know what the word significant means?

[alan aragon]

It's the total area under the curve that has significance.

Word.

[CaliforniaKing]

So can someone show the cliffs on what the consensus is so far?

[trance__dreamer]

Word.

hey, where'd you get my picture from?!?!

[kusok]

^^^ Rear delts fishnets rip is my favorite exercise.

[JOSEF RAKICH]

Still finishing up my work. AARR & clients >>>>

Josef, you really picked the worst time to make this thread, but if you can hang in there another day, I'll gladly oblige you at greater length.

Couple things though: 1) spellcheck, 2) you eat 7 times per day & train once per day, and your primary focus is fat loss. You are one of the last people on the planet who needs to nitpick over the placement of your meals. There's nothing thus far you've brought to the table in terms of logic or science that supports your concerns.

Lol allgood, and soz.

Yeah my spelling is pathetic i know. Ok so Alan, what if i consumed all my carbohydrates in the morning meals 1,2,3 but i then trained late in the evening after meal 6 which had no carbs, would it not matter and make no difference what so ever??

Being in a calorie deflict those carbs would have been used for energy alredy, Surely it would benifit me if i had correct nutrient timing and consumed the carbs for when they are needed most would it not? Please explain?

I also now raise a question about meal frequency, for example eating 2x per day VS eating 6x per day. Calorie intake = 3500 for both. I can see the logic to that being true that it makes no difference on fat gain/fat loss, but according to my broscience i for some reason question it.

Basically my question is when do EXCESS calories become EXCESS calories? The body dosent know when its next meal is going to be, the body also dosent know 24 hours, also when the body goes to sleep it still burns through calories it dosent automatically turn off and store all the calories which where not used for that day, so how does the body know to keep burning the calories for energy or to store the calories??

My broscience thoughts where if too much calories where consumed at ONCE thats when calories become EXCESS calories, (why over a 24 hour period, whay that cut off time?) now where as if meals where more frequent and smaller they would be used as energy and no need for the body to store the 'excess' calories as bodyfat as they would be used as energy soon by.

Now calories from protein and carbs are 4 cals each, BUT when stored as fat do they become 9 cals each creating an overall greater amount even if calories intake was indentical over a 24 hour period. Therefore consuming less frequent but larger meals more likely to gain bodyfat as its more likely for the body to store the calories as they are an EXCESS at that time where as opposed to smaller but more frequent meals even if calorie intake it the same.

Do you understand what im trying to get say, i have it in my head but its so hard for me to explain? If you get what im trying to get through maby you could shed some light?

No, there aren't.

Spot fat reduction:

There is data that suggests that localized lipolysis does occur to a greater degree in an actively contracting muscle vs. a resting muscle under certain training variables. Statistical significance and practical significance are two different things though.

Comfounding the matter would be the fate of the FFAs - oxidized to re-esterfied.

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/co...act/292/2/E394

In conclusion: blood flow and lipolysis are generally higher in SCAT adjacent to contracting than adjacent to resting muscle irrespective of exercise intensity. Thus specific exercises can induce "spot lipolysis" in adipose tissue.

[AlwaysTryin]

yes all the calories will get stored as fat but you aren't looking at the whole picture (day)

fatty acid synthesis vs fatty acid oxidation

fatty acids get stored in that large meal but the rest of the day fatty acid oxidation (of stored TAGs) occurs thus creating a net balance

Lol allgood, and soz.

Yeah my spelling is pathetic i know. Ok so Alan, what if i consumed all my carbohydrates in the morning meals 1,2,3 but i then trained late in the evening after meal 6 which had no carbs, would it not matter and make no difference what so ever??

Being in a calorie deflict those carbs would have been used for energy alredy, Surely it would benifit me if i had correct nutrient timing and consumed the carbs for when they are needed most would it not? Please explain?

I also now raise a question about meal frequency, for example eating 2x per day VS eating 6x per day. Calorie intake = 3500 for both. I can see the logic to that being true that it makes no difference on fat gain/fat loss, but according to my broscience i for some reason question it.

Basically my question is when do EXCESS calories become EXCESS calories? The body dosent know when its next meal is going to be, the body also dosent know 24 hours, also when the body goes to sleep it still burns through calories it dosent automatically turn off and store all the calories which where not used for that day, so how does the body know to keep burning the calories for energy or to store the calories??

My broscience thoughts where if too much calories where consumed at ONCE thats when calories become EXCESS calories, (why over a 24 hour period, whay that cut off time?) now where as if meals where more frequent and smaller they would be used as energy and no need for the body to store the 'excess' calories as bodyfat as they would be used as energy soon by.

Now calories from protein and carbs are 4 cals each, BUT when stored as fat do they become 9 cals each creating an overall greater amount even if calories intake was indentical over a 24 hour period. Therefore consuming less frequent but larger meals more likely to gain bodyfat as its more likely for the body to store the calories as they are an EXCESS at that time where as opposed to smaller but more frequent meals even if calorie intake it the same.

Do you understand what im trying to get say, i have it in my head but its so hard for me to explain? If you get what im trying to get through maby you could shed some light?



Spot fat reduction:

There is data that suggests that localized lipolysis does occur to a greater degree in an actively contracting muscle vs. a resting muscle under certain training variables. Statistical significance and practical significance are two different things though.

Comfounding the matter would be the fate of the FFAs - oxidized to re-esterfied.

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/co...act/292/2/E394

In conclusion: blood flow and lipolysis are generally higher in SCAT adjacent to contracting than adjacent to resting muscle irrespective of exercise intensity. Thus specific exercises can induce "spot lipolysis" in adipose tissue.

[Dolphski]

It seems to me that Joseph is primarily concerned with min/maxing. I do it a lot in things like gaming: try to find the absolute best possible way of doing something given that all things are perfect- something which is impossible. Alan made a statement using the words “not necessary” meaning that the benefits gained from nutrient timing are almost negligible. To me, it seems AA is trying to give a general rule that everyone should follow/not be concerned with, because **** isn’t perfect. Joseph seems to me like the type of guy that wants to do everything 100% BEST POSSIBLE WAY OF DOING SOMETHING!!!!11!!!!! which is not what normal people care for( i.e. people who have cheat meals, etc). Just my opinion on what Mr. Rakich is thinking anyways…

[Haveboards]

Lol allgood, and soz.

Yeah my spelling is pathetic i know. Ok so Alan, what if i consumed all my carbohydrates in the morning meals 1,2,3 but i then trained late in the evening after meal 6 which had no carbs, would it not matter and make no difference what so ever??

Being in a calorie deflict those carbs would have been used for energy alredy, Surely it would benifit me if i had correct nutrient timing and consumed the carbs for when they are needed most would it not? Please explain?

I also now raise a question about meal frequency, for example eating 2x per day VS eating 6x per day. Calorie intake = 3500 for both. I can see the logic to that being true that it makes no difference on fat gain/fat loss, but according to my broscience i for some reason question it.

Basically my question is when do EXCESS calories become EXCESS calories? The body dosent know when its next meal is going to be, the body also dosent know 24 hours, also when the body goes to sleep it still burns through calories it dosent automatically turn off and store all the calories which where not used for that day, so how does the body know to keep burning the calories for energy or to store the calories??

My broscience thoughts where if too much calories where consumed at ONCE thats when calories become EXCESS calories, (why over a 24 hour period, whay that cut off time?) now where as if meals where more frequent and smaller they would be used as energy and no need for the body to store the 'excess' calories as bodyfat as they would be used as energy soon by.

Now calories from protein and carbs are 4 cals each, BUT when stored as fat do they become 9 cals each creating an overall greater amount even if calories intake was indentical over a 24 hour period. Therefore consuming less frequent but larger meals more likely to gain bodyfat as its more likely for the body to store the calories as they are an EXCESS at that time where as opposed to smaller but more frequent meals even if calorie intake it the same.

Do you understand what im trying to get say, i have it in my head but its so hard for me to explain? If you get what im trying to get through maby you could shed some light?



Spot fat reduction:

There is data that suggests that localized lipolysis does occur to a greater degree in an actively contracting muscle vs. a resting muscle under certain training variables. Statistical significance and practical significance are two different things though.

Comfounding the matter would be the fate of the FFAs - oxidized to re-esterfied.

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/co...act/292/2/E394

In conclusion: blood flow and lipolysis are generally higher in SCAT adjacent to contracting than adjacent to resting muscle irrespective of exercise intensity. Thus specific exercises can induce "spot lipolysis" in adipose tissue.

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

[UliqMadiq]

In for response.

^^^

Also, come on man, he's asking a question. He's entitled to do that without being ridiculed.

[Cumulonimbus]

Lets do it in retard terms. Dat dere cals in vs cals out. If your daily expenditure is more than your daily intake, you loose, vice verse. As mentioned, you are constantly storing and losing bodyfat. Net balance is what matters. It is like worrying how much muscle you gain from a 5 x 20 bicep curl brosession.

Also, you don't need carbs around every meal/training session. People rely on exogenous glucose too much, especially panzy bodybuilders.

[MakeABanana]

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

I admire Josef for trying to learn. He isn't some ignoramus who asks questions that are already answered in the stickies. It's apparent that he's been reading and trying to understand the information and is willing to learn more.

It's a Mark Twain quote I personally disagree with. The fear of being thought as stupid itself impedes intellectual progress.

As far as I know, Josef's kind of a perfectionist. That body doesn't lie. He's next in line to dethrone Zyzz.

[snorkelman]

If your daily expenditure is more than your daily intake, you loose, vice verse.

[Cumulonimbus]

Lets do it in retard terms.

.

[Madevilz]

Just waiting for AA's response lulz

[Chuck2600]

ITT we get mod trolled. AA knows many of us have not slept in days waiting by the computer in anticipation for his promised response.