Question for the Gurus

[boorsey]

I am severely overweight. I am planning to start a SKD this monday, up the intensity of my workout and add some LISS, also possibly ECA, and then move to a CKD after a few months, when I am not at a ridiculous weight (427 now) and I can be more effective at a depletion workout, IMO. Should I do this, or should I start with the CKD immediately? Would my current sedentary lifestyle mean that a depletion workout would be possible to me on a CKD? I want to maximize this plan, and transform. Thanks for anything you can advise!

[weber25]

My personal opinion based on your size.

Becareful as heavy as you are. Any Diet and exercise program will do wonders for you and possibly just getting your diet in check first before going straight to KETO might be best.

That being said if you are determined to do KETO then:

Concentrate 90% of your efforts on Diet. Get Keto down to an absolute science for you. Then focus on exercise.

Also with your weight I would not even think about doing a CKD, TKD, or SKD. or in other words do not Carb up at all for at least a month if not more, till you get a managed healthier weight.

You will notice massive amount of weight being lossed your first couple of weeks. Drink a ton of water, more than you could have ever imagined yourself drinking before. You will absolutely need it to keep your body flushed.

Remember the Veggies lots of green stuff

With the Exercise you will find great progress with the LISS, go for walks and take it slow. A couple of resistance sessions a week wont hurt.

Really again IMHO saty away from carbing up for as long as possible, get your weight down first before you even come close to worrying about bulking.

[Ekke]

My personal opinion based on your size.

Becareful as heavy as you are. Any Diet and exercise program will do wonders for you and possibly just getting your diet in check first before going straight to KETO might be best.

That being said if you are determined to do KETO then:

Concentrate 90% of your efforts on Diet. Get Keto down to an absolute science for you. Then focus on exercise.

Also with your weight I would not even think about doing a CKD, TKD, or SKD. or in other words do not Carb up at all for at least a month if not more, till you get a managed healthier weight.

You will notice massive amount of weight being lossed your first couple of weeks. Drink a ton of water, more than you could have ever imagined yourself drinking before. You will absolutely need it to keep your body flushed.

Remember the Veggies lots of green stuff

With the Exercise you will find great progress with the LISS, go for walks and take it slow. A couple of resistance sessions a week wont hurt.

Really again IMHO saty away from carbing up for as long as possible, get your weight down first before you even come close to worrying about bulking.

SKD's dosent have carb ups

[boorsey]

Thanks for the quick replies! I chose SKD at first because of the lack of carb ups, since I wasn't sure that I could work at the intensity required to fully deplete before a carb up, so I figure do SKD for a few months, shed lotsa fat, build up my intensity capabilities, then move to a CKD to shake it up/drop the remainder.

[DietSpam]

Becareful as heavy as you are. Any Diet and exercise program will do wonders for you and possibly just getting your diet in check first ...

Concentrate 90% of your efforts on Diet. Get Keto down to an absolute science for you. Then focus on exercise.

You will notice massive amount of weight being lossed your first couple of weeks. Drink a ton of water, more than you could have ever imagined yourself drinking before. You will absolutely need it to keep your body flushed.

Remember the Veggies lots of green stuff

With the Exercise you will find great progress with the LISS, go for walks and take it slow. A couple of resistance sessions a week wont hurt.

I trimmed some of Weber's response to things I would have mentioned. A few additional suggestions would be to get into the habit of recording your nutritional intake. how many calories, grams of fat, protein, and carbs. There are some online tools you can use like fitday.com to help you with this.

I'd consider waiting on the EC stack and stick to just getting the diet right first. This way you'll be able to see if you're getting the results you've hoped for without them.

One more thing that I wish I did before my first day of this diet was to take my "before" pictures for myself. I finally took a picture after 3 weeks in and hoping to see some differences in a month or two. It might be something cool for you to look at and compare as you progress.

[boorsey]

Thanks, I opened a fitday account just now, looks like a great tool. I think I'll take your advice on the EC and wait to see what I can do on my own, that would make it easier to gauge the effectiveness of each seperately, I guess.

Thanks for all the great advice!

[Rennard]

I agree with a lot of what the others have been saying in here.

It sounds like you're on the right path now. How's your SKD looking so far? I mean, what foods do you plan on enjoying?

If there was any other thing I could add [something totally optional] is you could start up you're own food/diet/workout log so members can watch how you're progressing, comment, and help keep you motivated. That's always a plus, and you got people to share your success with which is also very cool.

Good luck man!

[Eileen]

Agree. Get a good basic keto diet that you can live with. Lots of green veg. It's one of the big myths that keto means no veg. In fact, you should find you are eating a lot more veg than before. Apart from the fact that veg will fill your plate and keep you regular, it will also keep your family and doctor off your back. It's hard to tell someone who is chomping broccoli that their diet is unhealthy!

Forget carb-ups for the moment.

Get into the gym, start lifting. Go as heavy as you can, concentrating on compound lifts. Some of them may be difficult at this stage, but you can work towards them. At your weight, you obviously have a good muscle base, you just need to show it.

I would stick with the diet on its own for now, keep the ECA for later. Green tea or Yerbe mate and lots of fish oil are good additions to a keto diet.

[boorsey]

Thanks, folks, I appreciate all the advice!

I will be keeping/uploading food logs and workout logs. I will also (maybe) be uploading progress pictures.

For my workouts, I have a circuit planned with all compound exercises, and I will be doing some exercise videos and treadmill for LISS.

Thanks, again, guys! I really am excited to look good again!

[CanuckTank]

I am severely overweight. I am planning to start a SKD this monday, up the intensity of my workout and add some LISS, also possibly ECA, and then move to a CKD after a few months, when I am not at a ridiculous weight (427 now) and I can be more effective at a depletion workout, IMO. Should I do this, or should I start with the CKD immediately? Would my current sedentary lifestyle mean that a depletion workout would be possible to me on a CKD? I want to maximize this plan, and transform. Thanks for anything you can advise!

You don't need to be worrying about carbing up or depletion workouts at your size.

You need to get moving and eating properly. Worry about the special diets later.

[boorsey]

Okay, folks, a bit more info.

My workout plan:

Incline Press
Squat, Bodyweight only
Cable Pulldowns
Lunges, Bodyweight only
Cable Twists
Bridge, 30 seconds

Repeat this circuit 3 times, to failure on last set. I tried to design it so that I could switch to each exercise with no rest, rest 30 seconds to 1 minute between circuits. After 3 circuits, 30 minutes walking on the treadmill.

Diet:

2800 cals, 65 fat, 30 prot, 5 carb. However, eating clean on this keto plan seems like WAY too much food (bet you never thought a 400+ pound guy would say that, haha), so I plan on preparing 2800 cals worth of food, and eating until I'm not hungry anymore. I will be also throwing in some protein +BCAAs as a PWO meal.

Any thoughts, suggestions, etc?


CanuckTank: I agree completely, I have been sedentary too long, I know I'll lose just getting active and cutting some cals. I won't be thinking about any TKDs or CKDs for a while.

[Eileen]

Eat when hungry, eat slowly, stop when not hungry.

You should find you are eating the amount you need. Make the most of it, and get used to the feeling of real hunger as opposed to an insulin rebound. Most people don't actually know when they are hungry, just eat at meal times.

[boorsey]

Thanks, Eileen! You've been a great help! Is the workout plan okay?

[Eileen]

Looks fine. Throw in a few deadlifts if you can grab a barbell. They are a great whole body exercise.

[johnnyironboard]

2800 calories is a lot.

[boorsey]

Update:

I feel great. I am never hungry, natty pb saves me from temptations! Tonight is lift night, plus I am getting a treadmill. I am down 7 pounds. Hooray for Keto!

I will start a food log as soon as I am more comfortable with a daily menu. Thanks, again, folks!

[Rugger7]

2800 calories is a lot.

@ 420 lbs???????


Personally, i don't think it matters what you do, at your weight its going to fall off you quick either way.. listen to your body, not people on the forums.. Start out not with your SKD and when you notice your energy and mood deteriorating, take a carb-up.. It might be 7 days, it might be 14.. it might be 28... I would recommend carbing up at least every 4 weeks though.

[Rugger7]

nm..

[Jay Rawd]

Why not just do a reduced carb diet instead of keto?

[boorsey]

Why not just do a reduced carb diet instead of keto?

Isn't keto reduced carb?

[boorsey]

@ 420 lbs???????


Personally, i don't think it matters what you do, at your weight its going to fall off you quick either way.. listen to your body, not people on the forums.. Start out not with your SKD and when you notice your energy and mood deteriorating, take a carb-up.. It might be 7 days, it might be 14.. it might be 28... I would recommend carbing up at least every 4 weeks though.

Thanks for the tip, I'll probably carb up a little in a few weeks.

[Vietgoboi]

Isn't keto reduced carb?

Jay Rawd meant eating at 110-150 grams of carbs instead of 50 grams for keto.

Keto 65% fat / 30% protein / 5% Carb (Just a guideline)

2800 calories is a lot.

He at 400 lbs, if he eat any lower, he will develop loose skin

Thanks for the tip, I'll probably carb up a little in a few weeks.

Even if your carbing up, eat in deficit calories to lose weight...

[Jay Rawd]

Isn't keto reduced carb?

There's a difference between the 0-30 grams of carbs recommended here and some figure like 100-300 grams of carbs. For instance, I bulk on about 480 grams of carbs, so 300 would be a drastic reduction for me. Get it?

You need carbs to fuel your workouts. There's really no way around it. I know that well-meaning individuals here would like to believe that you can make your body run on fat during weight sessions, but that only happens if your sets are at least 3 MINUTES long.

Try a TKD, not an SKD. SKD doesn't work for anyone who lifts weights, regardless of bodyfat percentage. Just have like 50 carbs before and 50 carbs after and then no carbs throughout the rest of the day.

[boorsey]

Thanks for the knowledge, guys. This forum and this whole site kick ass! Repped for helping!

[boorsey]

I was thinking about suggestions, and I'm not sure I can work out with the intensity needed for a TKD yet. I think I am going to stay SKD for 8 weeks and re-assess. No offense to anyone who has given me advice to the contrary, it's just that Keto seems to be a way of eating that is highly individualized. "What works for you" is bandied about in the forums a lot, so I think I need to just monitor what works for me so far, as I have been losing 2 pounds a day pretty much since I started.

[Mercersburgguy]

hey the foodlog is a GREAT idea I am a big guy as well and the food log gives me that visual I need to know what I have eaten and what I still need to eat. Might want to try and plan out your meals so you sort of know what the week holds for you. Hey Rock on PA!!!!

[Jay Rawd]

I was thinking about suggestions, and I'm not sure I can work out with the intensity needed for a TKD yet. I think I am going to stay SKD for 8 weeks and re-assess. No offense to anyone who has given me advice to the contrary, it's just that Keto seems to be a way of eating that is highly individualized. "What works for you" is bandied about in the forums a lot, so I think I need to just monitor what works for me so far, as I have been losing 2 pounds a day pretty much since I started.

The fatter you are, the more you lose fat. However, most weight lifting requires carbs even if not that intense. Unless your sets are 3 minutes long each then you're just converting dietary protein to glucose and not running on fat at all. Not only that, but losing weight is independent of macronutrient consumption but caloric deficit. You can lose fat on a diet higher in carbs. Many bodybuilders do it and they come in peeled by contest time. Yes, I am talking about naturals here. Alfredo Nunez and Layne Norton are two natural examples of bodybuilders that have never done keto but maintain all their muscle mass during a cut and shred down to single digit bodyfat percentages. Carbs don't make you fat, excess calories do. There is no reason why a carb-based cutting diet isn't as muscle sparing as a fat-based carb diet. Just eat enough protein and you'll maintain your size. Plus, carbs give you the right energy to lift while sparing the protein. Like I said, fat can't be used for energy during weight-lifting. Stubborn people on this forum think they're burning fat during weight sessions, but the truth is they're just using up glycogen from the carb-up or protein from their diet.

Besides, I challenege anyone on this forum to show me an instance where the Phosphocreatine system runs on fatty acid by-products.

[boorsey]

The fatter you are, the more you lose fat. However, most weight lifting requires carbs even if not that intense. Unless your sets are 3 minutes long each then you're just converting dietary protein to glucose and not running on fat at all. Not only that, but losing weight is independent of macronutrient consumption but caloric deficit. You can lose fat on a diet higher in carbs. Many bodybuilders do it and they come in peeled by contest time. Yes, I am talking about naturals here. Alfredo Nunez and Layne Norton are two natural examples of bodybuilders that have never done keto but maintain all their muscle mass during a cut and shred down to single digit bodyfat percentages. Carbs don't make you fat, excess calories do. There is no reason why a carb-based cutting diet isn't as muscle sparing as a fat-based carb diet. Just eat enough protein and you'll maintain your size. Plus, carbs give you the right energy to lift while sparing the protein. Like I said, fat can't be used for energy during weight-lifting. Stubborn people on this forum think they're burning fat during weight sessions, but the truth is they're just using up glycogen from the carb-up or protein from their diet.

Besides, I challenege anyone on this forum to show me an instance where the Phosphocreatine system runs on fatty acid by-products.

I think I see what you're saying, here. I still feel like I will do better in a low carb scenario, as the fats will help keep me fuller, but I am coming around to your way of thinking about fuelling my workouts. To be honest, I didn't believe that my little routine was intense enough to do much glycogen depletion, but I am here to learn, so I think I will try the TKD you described earlier. Should I keep my ratios/cals the same? Split my carbs up between pre and post? And what about veg? Should I maintain my 20g/day from greens?

[boorsey]

hey the foodlog is a GREAT idea I am a big guy as well and the food log gives me that visual I need to know what I have eaten and what I still need to eat. Might want to try and plan out your meals so you sort of know what the week holds for you. Hey Rock on PA!!!!

Hey, thanks for the support! I started a Fitday account, but I need to train myself to make my entries more consistently. I will work on that and start a log in that section. Thanks, man!

[Jay Rawd]

I think I see what you're saying, here. I still feel like I will do better in a low carb scenario, as the fats will help keep me fuller, but I am coming around to your way of thinking about fuelling my workouts. To be honest, I didn't believe that my little routine was intense enough to do much glycogen depletion, but I am here to learn, so I think I will try the TKD you described earlier. Should I keep my ratios/cals the same? Split my carbs up between pre and post? And what about veg? Should I maintain my 20g/day from greens?

20-30 grams from veggies is fine. Then have like 25-50 grams before and after your workout. So have like 25-50 grams before and 25-50 after. Make sure to have protein with the post-workout shake.

It doesn't matter if you don't deplete glycogen with your workouts, you do need glycogen to fuel them. You don't want protein to be converted to glucose, you want it for repair. The carbs spare the protein in weight lifting environments. Fat spares protein at rest, not during heavy exercise of short duration and high intensity.