Read the story:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/blo...iarism-part-2/
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07-10-2008, 07:15 PM #1
Alwyn Cosgrove's Warp Speed Fat Loss plagiarizes Lyle McDonald's Ultimate Diet 2.0
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07-10-2008, 08:37 PM #2
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07-10-2008, 08:47 PM #3
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07-10-2008, 08:51 PM #4
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07-10-2008, 10:08 PM #5
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07-11-2008, 03:42 AM #6
Lets keep this in perspective. The successful ones blow sunshine up each others asses and steal back and forth from each other (crisscross promotions). They all also get their info from research and scientific studies that are not their own. This was kind of bound to happen. I mean, how many ways can there be to interpret the same fat loss research/studies? It's not like they are dealing with original design such as music or prose.
Of course copy and paste tactics goes against my grain too but...(shrugs) may be a sign of the times(technology).Last edited by tonester; 07-11-2008 at 03:45 AM.
"Adapt and overcome."
"Everything you need is inside you."
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07-11-2008, 08:33 AM #7
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07-11-2008, 08:50 AM #8
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07-11-2008, 09:20 AM #9
I thought that he was going to post a response to the plagiarism allegations on his blog today, but instead it's an advertisement for Warp Speed Fat Loss .
http://alwyncosgrove.blogspot.com/20...-fat-loss.html
Just posted a thread about this on T-Nation in the Bodybuilding section, it'll probably be censored though.Last edited by 101CavGrunt; 07-11-2008 at 09:36 AM.
IG: @toadkillerdog
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07-11-2008, 09:47 AM #10
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07-11-2008, 09:48 AM #11
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07-11-2008, 11:42 AM #12
Here's a post by TC on T-Nation:
Guys,
Never practice contempt prior to investigation.
Here are the emails between Alwyn and Lyle concerning this allegation:
Lyle,
I want to address your public accusation of plagiarism and set the record straight.
You may not recall but the chapter in question originally began life as a client handout - and then appeared in my what was tentatively titled Afterburn II and subsequently became two products - Afterburn II (workouts) and the "Real World Fat Loss" Manual.
This was after prior agreement with you via email (see attached emails below).
The chapter is found in the Real World Fat Loss (RWFL) Manual on pages 16-20. The chapter actually ends at the bottom of page 19. On page 20 of the manual the following text appears:
Quote:
(This chapter has been highly influenced by the work of Lyle McDonald and is essentially a very brief summary of his Fat Metabolism chapter in "The Ultimate Diet 2.0. I'd like to thank Lyle for his help both personally and professionally and his contributions to this field. I strongly urge you to check out Lyle's website �?? www.bodyrecomposition.net).
When we reprinted this chapter from the RWFL manual into the Warp Speed Fat Loss product, the above paragraph was inadvertently omitted.
This oversight was rectified immediately when this was brought to my attention.
I want to reiterate that this was always listed as a summary of your chapter - never passed off as my work.
The fact that the acknowledging paragraph was not included in WSFL was a huge oversight on my part, and I would have corrected it and rectified it with anyone who had purchased it immediately had you or anyone else simply brought this to my attention. I am deeply sorry about that omission.
It was not my intention to not give proper credit, but it was my responsibility and I failed in that, and I want to make it publicly known that I fault no one but myself for that error.
I would be happy to speak with you about this further if you want to give me a call.
--
Alwyn Cosgrove
Above referenced email exchange:
From Alwyn Cosgrove
To Lyle McDonald
Date Mon, Aug 14, 2006 at 8:45 PM
I'm also working on Afterburn II.
I am going to put in a chapter on fat metabolism.
To be honest it will be a short summary - nothing in depth.
However your chapter in UD2.0 has influenced me the most, to the point where I'd feel uncomfortable not saying that directly in the text.
basically the chapter will be primarily a summary of your chapter plus a few others (your chapter is 2200 words, the summary is about 600- 750).
In other words I want to credit you directly in that chapter.
So how do you prefer it was referenced - direct to you and your site, or direct to the book?
AC
Reply:
From Lyle McDonald
To Alwyn Cosgrove
Date Mon, Aug 14, 2006 at 8:53 PM
Yes (all three)
--
Lyle
My Reply:
From Alwyn Cosgrove
To Lyle McDonald
Date Mon, Aug 14, 2006 at 8:58 PM
mailed-by gmail.com
On 8/14/06, Lyle McDonald wrote:
>>So how do you prefer it was referenced - direct to you and your
>>site, or direct to the book?
>Yes (all three)
Gotcha.
ACIG: @toadkillerdog
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07-11-2008, 12:20 PM #13
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07-11-2008, 01:16 PM #14
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07-11-2008, 02:02 PM #15
The difference between "summary" & plagiarism
I'm wondering if Lyle ever saw a copy of Alwyn's previous book the Rapid Fat Loss Manual (RFLM) that his edited-to-shorten version of Lyle's UD2.0 chapter was in. Because I think characterizing the RFLM chapter as a "summary" was a false characterization. From Alwyn's original email to Lyle about the chapter:
basically the chapter will be primarily a summary of your chapter plus a few others (your chapter is 2200 words, the summary is about 600- 750).
I think if Lyle had actually seen the "summary" back then, he'd have said, "That's not a summary, that's an edited-down (i.e., plagiarized) version of my chapter."
Furthermore, supposedly that chapter was gonna be in Afterburn II, but actually Alwyn put it in two products back then: Afterburn II (workouts) plus the Rapid Fat Loss Manual (when he'd only mentioned the first of these two products in his original email to Lyle). Then two years later, it appeared in yet another new work.
I don't think Alwyn necessarily meant to do evil. But clearly he had a different understanding of the "agreement" he & Lyle made two years ago than Lyle did.
- Alwyn thought "summary" meant "edited version of Lyle's chapter" whereas Lyle probably thought it meant "summary" -- i.e., a rundown, but in Alwyn's own words, of the info from Lyle's UD2.0 chapter.
- Alwyn thought he had an "agreement" about use of the edited version of the chapter. Lyle thought Alwyn was seeking info on how to credit him, & provided it; there was no "agreement" per se, just info on how to credit.
- Alwyn thought this supposed agreement meant he had blanket permission to continue to use the edited-down version of the chapter into the indefinite future for other products.
I also found it interesting that in his email of explanation, Alwyn makes no mention of one of the other things Lyle mentioned in his blog about this, which was the uncredited verbatim use of Lyle's original Stubborn Fat Loss protocol (SFP 1.0) in New Rules of Lifting & again in the Warp Speed Fat Loss book, again completely uncredited.
-- MelLast edited by yksin; 07-11-2008 at 02:05 PM.
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07-11-2008, 02:31 PM #16
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07-11-2008, 03:22 PM #17
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07-11-2008, 05:41 PM #18
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07-11-2008, 06:13 PM #19
Oh well that sums it up, doesn't it? Lyle told Alwyn how to credit him for a summary that went in a product two years ago.
Lyle did *not* give permission for this new product, and based on his reaction, he had no idea of the extent of Alwyn's summary.
I'd say this far from justifies it. Explains it, sure, but this is the kind of crap that happens when you've got e-celebrity gurus trying to get rich by putting out one garbage product after another.www.ampedtraining.com | Articles and Blog
Is Cortisol Really Important?: www.ampedtraining.com/articles/cortisol-bodybuilding
Muscle Soreness/DOMS: www.ampedtraining.com/articles/doms-muscle-soreness
Periodization Redux: www.ampedtraining.com/articles/periodization-redux
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07-11-2008, 06:43 PM #20
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07-11-2008, 08:20 PM #21
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07-11-2008, 10:09 PM #22
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07-11-2008, 10:47 PM #23
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07-11-2008, 10:54 PM #24
***CONSPIRACY THEORY***
What if all this negative publicity is an attempt to maximize profits from the sale of BOTH books?
From what I have read, all boards are discussing this, everyone is probably curious what the heck is so important with CKD, etc....perhaps both books will sell more now?
(ps: This is a joke but a possibility nonetheless.)
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07-11-2008, 11:17 PM #25
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07-12-2008, 05:58 AM #26
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07-12-2008, 06:55 AM #27
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07-12-2008, 08:23 AM #28
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07-12-2008, 08:43 AM #29
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07-12-2008, 10:13 AM #30
I know a girl who keeps a notebook. in this notebook she writes down every single text message she both sends and receives. she writes down the person, date, time, and full text in said notebook that spans several years. it's very creepy, and goes right inline with the rest of psychotic personality.
Alwyn keeping emails several years old around for 'just in case' moments reminds me of her."Why would you want to eat a vegetable unless it was wrapped in bacon?" Michael Symon
Alwyn Cosgrove steals other peoples work.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=124530811
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