Ok, misc was right. Mike Mentzer training sucks for aesthetics.

[FukDaWorldCuh]

I do double nearly the volume he recommends and still notice my aesthetics shrinking

Very elite for strength training tho IMO. I hit a PR on something at least once per week these days

Some of Mentzer's teachings that I plan to keep following:
- Training to failure.
- More sets doesn't mean better.
- Rethinking the importance of rest days. Many clips where he goes deeply on the importance.
- High protein was advertised so marketers could sell powders through the mail.

[FukDaWorldCuh]

bump

[GerbilFarmer]

I fell for it too. I tried it for like 3 months a while back.

There’s no where near enough volume.

Might be ok to maintain or if you have very little time occasionally, but if you are above a novice level no way can you make gains.

[dopamine72]

Most of us fell for it

I'd like to know your numbers on the strength part tho

His training fatigues the CNS rather than actually training the CNS to become more efficient

This is a huge problem and not good for strength if you go to failure all the time

His single all out top sets can be quite the benefit sometime tho..But you do those sparingly and have to mix other training styles in to get the maximum gains

[FukDaWorldCuh]

I fell for it too. I tried it for like 3 months a while back.

There’s no where near enough volume.

Might be ok to maintain or if you have very little time occasionally, but if you are above a novice level no way can you make gains.

yea it's rly only for people with little time that want to maintain

[FukDaWorldCuh]

Most of us fell for it

I'd like to know your numbers on the strength part tho

His training fatigues the CNS rather than actually training the CNS to become more efficient

This is a huge problem and not good for strength if you go to failure all the time

His single all out top sets can be quite the benefit sometime tho..But you do those sparingly and have to mix other training styles in to get the maximum gains

strength has been great but it's likely due to bloatmaxxing rather than training style

[1hardgainer]

It worked for Mentzer though. Then again, I think bodybuilding is 99% genetics. If you have genetics like Menzter, you'd make gains regardless of what program you're doing.

[PhiloSquid]

99% of written workout material is nonsense in verbose so you have content to sell

[FukDaWorldCuh]

It worked for Mentzer though. Then again, I think bodybuilding is 99% genetics. If you have genetics like Menzter, you'd make gains regardless of what program you're doing.

if i follow correctly, he trained according to his teachings only after quitting pro bodybuilding

his routine was 5 days/wk during his ifbb years

[Strawng]

He has some great principles, but his exact program isn’t the best. I train to failure & do a lot of rest days, but I don’t do as low volume as he advocates.

[Shortfuze]

I do double nearly the volume he recommends and still notice my aesthetics shrinking

Very elite for strength training tho IMO. I hit a PR on something at least once per week these days

Some of Mentzer's teachings that I plan to keep following:
- Training to failure.
- More sets doesn't mean better.
- Rethinking the importance of rest days. Many clips where he goes deeply on the importance.
- High protein was advertised so marketers could sell powders through the mail.

That could be the issue. Stick to what he says and see if it makes a difference.

[FukDaWorldCuh]

He has some great principles, but his exact program isn’t the best. I train to failure & do a lot of rest days, but I don’t do as low volume as he advocates.

yea i got a lot out of his principles and plan to live by em

the 3 rest days in between workouts aint it tho

[FukDaWorldCuh]

That could be the issue. Stick to what he says and see if it makes a difference.

I stuck to it for a bit but not very long

It's Push, legs, pull, legs / 3 days of rest between workouts

So if you hit push day today, u won't hit it till 2 weeks later

Just ain't enough

[dopamine72]

Just lol if you're not on a proper powerlifting program using percentages and volume with progressive overload

Keep wasting your fuking time

[FukDaWorldCuh]

Just lol if you're not on a proper powerlifting program using percentages and volume with progressive overload

Keep wasting your fuking time

i want to look good and feel stronk, not be a geek

[Dave22reborn]

It worked for Mentzer though. Then again, I think bodybuilding is 99% genetics. If you have genetics like Menzter, you'd make gains regardless of what program you're doing.

He built his base through volume training, and didn't really practice what he preached.

[immune18]

It’s great. It takes longer to ‘look good’ because you aren’t driving much sarcoplasmic growth/pump at all, but over time you’ll look better than everyone else in the gym. Strength = muscle, simple as that.

[CellyTech]

I read this post about Mentzers training the other day. Posted by some guy Paul Carter on IG;

5 Things Mentzer got wrong.

. Pre exhaustion supersets, which never panned out the way he and Arthur Jones theorized. In fact, in all of the research it has worked the opposite way they claimed, and this makes sense when you actually understand how fatigue and motor unit recruitment works.
-
Ultimately what we saw over and over was that the prime mover activation went down, in the compound movement and that the secondary muscle activation went up. This makes sense when you understand how fatigue and motor unit recruitment works.
-
2 That doing a second set is the worst mistake you can make, when in fact we do need more than one set for a muscle in a workout to maximize the growth stimulus.
-
A second set will not give you double the stimulus. It does take about 5 more sets to double the stimulus. However, in every single study ever done in the history of man, doing 3 sets beats 1 set to failure. So multi set programs will always beat out 1 set for a muscle in a training session.
-
3 The last rep in a set to failure is magical, when really it’s not. We get mechancal tension on all the reps where we have full motor unit recruitment and a slowing of contraction velocity. In fact, in heavier loading it’s probably best to leave that last rep off to reduce fatigue.
-
There’s nothing magical that suddenly turns on in that last rep to failure. The last few reps to failure when motor unit recruitment is maximal with a slow contraction velocity is what we need. There’s nothing special about that last rep in the manner in which he describes it.
-

4 "Muscle growth is literally a protective mechanism." Muscle growth is the result of sarcomere addition, which occurs AFTER the protective mechanisms of the repeated bout effect.
-
5. "Lifting the weight is a waste of time so hold the weight in the contracted position and lower super slowly. This is because lifting the weight is the weakest part of the movement."
-
This isn't true because not all muscles produce high force at short lengths, and the eccentric portion of a dynamic repetition only gets us about half the amount of activation as lifting the actual weight.
-
Isometrics can cause hypertrophy. However a slow lowering of any weight we can lift, EVEN A TRUE 1RM, is going to get you AT BEST, about half of the activation of fibers that you get on the lifting phase. Eccentrics in dynamic reps do not function the same way that supra-maximal eccentric overloading does.
-
This isn't even getting into the discussion that some muscles don't produce high force at short lengths and thus won't experience a high degree of tension there.
-
Lowering a weight really slowly that you're capable of lifting in the concentric might get you some extra type I fiber growth, but it DOES NOT stimulate the largest fibers because they aren't even active in this manner.
-
Mike's early stuff was good because it moved people away from the nonsense that Arnold was doing, eg 20 sets for chest and back in a session etc.
-
But the mechanistic stuff that he talked about was so off the mark that it also needs to be pointed out because it's continuously repeated now and it's wrong.

[gmenfan40]

Sounds like a great way to tear muscles, especially if you're not on gear. (Super Ded fkn Srs)

[fishnbrah]

It’s great. It takes longer to ‘look good’ because you aren’t driving much sarcoplasmic growth/pump at all, but over time you’ll look better than everyone else in the gym. Strength = muscle, simple as that.

Cope.

[AstroGym79]

When you use the principles and methods of a man who would in private conversations would advocate for the use of methamphetamines to help with work/training schedules you're bound to run into some confusion and snags along to way.

[FingerFUKT]

told u he was a BUM.

I reckon the best bet for most people is 12-15 sets/week.
Done once a week with some overlap on a brosplit. Example bis work on backday ect.
If i wasnt torso dominant though id look into a split that skips arms & shoulders. Or toss them at the end of workouts & not dedicate a day for them.
Its all depending on your weakpoints really.

[immune18]

Cope.

Lol yes, my physique vs your physique. Cope

[EiFit91]

I progress well on low volume, but it's not for everybody. High volume training results in tendonitis.

Experiment with your own body and see what works. Keep doing what works and then change it when it's not working anymore.

Meanwhile the fitness industry will keep swinging between fads because they have to keep innovating in an oversaturated market.

[ajdahlheimer]

I tried it for 12 weeks about a year ago. I liked the 1 or 2 actual working sets (especially for the heavier compound lifts), but I've never been one for rest days--so I couldn't get fully into his methods.

-AJ