*** Official Tennis Thread Pt. 2****

[Trudope]

Damn lol, you are really butthurt.

I mean Nadal just tied Feds slam count and won #20.

only one butthurt here is you brah

[Dominik]

btw your "GOAT" grass player is 0-3 vs. djokovic on his beloved grass

No need to put the boot into the old man on a day you're supposed to be celebrating. Federer isn't even competing!

To be fair Djokovic is 6 years younger and only started beating him at Wimbledon when Federer was in his mid 30s, and 11 years after he won his first. Federer beat him in 2012 and would have given a beating in 2017. He was lucky to avoid Federer during his Pepe slump.

Anyway until Federer retires it's too early to have this "GOAT" debate. He had match points for #21 at Wimbledon a year ago. US Open looks like a dead end but is always a contender at the AO if Djokovic has another slump.

[nvrstopworking]

keep coping

Nadal is best on clay
Djokovic is best on hardcourts
Federer is "best" on grass

each one has a preferred surface. nadal is just by far the most dominant out of the 3 on his. slam count will decide who is GOAT

btw your "GOAT" grass player is 0-3 vs. djokovic on his beloved grass

That’s convenient lol... never heard this from Rafa fans until maybe 2 years ago.

Winning another AO and finally winning an ATP year end title would do a lot more for his legacy than 3 more FO titles.

[iabs]

Damn lol, you are really butthurt.

What do you add to the tennis conversation in this thread?

Stomping your rhetoric is fun the first 15 times, it's gotten old now, bud.

Get your shiit together, you're fast approaching wincel levels in this thread.

[ohiostate124]

I mean Nadal just tied Feds slam count and won #20.

only one butthurt here is you brah

No? I’m just being consistent with what I said earlier. An extra clay title doesn’t not elevate Rafa over Fed.

[ohiostate124]

What do you add to the tennis conversation in this thread?

Stomping your rhetoric is fun the first 15 times, it's gotten old now, bud.

Get your shiit together, you're fast approaching wincel levels in this thread.

What do you add to this thread? You don’t post in it unless Rafa is doing well. You completely disappear if he isn’t. Stop projecting.

[iabs]

No need to put the boot into the old man on a day you're supposed to be celebrating. Federer isn't even competing!

To be fair Djokovic is 6 years younger and only started beating him at Wimbledon when Federer was in his mid 30s, and 11 years after he won his first. Federer beat him in 2012 and would have given a beating in 2017. He was lucky to avoid Federer during his Pepe slump.

Hold up a minute, Dommy. Your boy ohio just called me out when I pointed out THIS EXACT same fact.

Your camp has got to get your story straight.

[ohiostate124]

Hold up a minute, Dommy. Your boy ohio just called me out when I pointed out THIS EXACT same fact.

Your camp has got to get your story straight.

Where

[iabs]

What do you add to this thread? You don’t post in it unless Rafa is doing well. You completely disappear if he isn’t. Stop projecting.

I only talk about the big 3.

I post regardless Rafa is doing well or no (I didn't join this thread until recently so..), you only post cringy one liners thinking you're smooth.

You're not.

[gomil]

I really don't understand why slam distribution matters so much; all slams have the same importance.

At this point, I'd be hard pressed to not rate Nadal over Federer.

Also, I really didn't expect Djokovic to win but playing a flat match after a 5 set SF seems to be his thing.

At the end of their careers, Federer will probably be #3 in the slam count.

[iabs]

Vs Agassi:

Nadal has twice has many USO titles than Agassi, defeating arguably the GOAT HC player in 2 of those finals. Nadal has twice the number of Wimbledon titles than Agassi, defeating arguably the GOAT grass court player in 1 of those finals.
Agassi having 6 HC slams and only 1 grass and clay slam make him a HC especialista so errrrrrrrrrr not even top 5 GOAT list.

Vs Sampras:

Never won the career slam, automatically disqualified for GOAT.

Vs Lendl

Never won the career slam, automatically disqualified for GOAT. Oh and won 5 HC slams, same as Nadal.

Vs Federer

Nadal has won at least 2 slams of each surface type, Federer only 1.

Never won the channel slam.

Has never defeated Nadal at the French.

Vs Djokovic

Only guy that’s close to Nadal in achievements, having beaten him at the FO and dominating him on the H2H. We can attribute this to Nadal’s physical decline, but 2011-2012 was prime physical Nadal and Djokovic crawled into his head and still resides there. In slams however, lacks the double surface achievement which he’s never been closer to achieving this year. And never routinely defeated the so called GOAT routinely across ALL surfaces on his prime, his career has been more opportunistic than anything sliding in at the perfect time where the other 2 GOATs commenced their decline and the new gens were completely absent.

Vs Becker

Becker has 1 more grass slam than Nadal, but never defeated the GOAT grass player.

Nadal has 2 more HC slams than Becker, oh and Becker never won the career slam which automatically disqualified him for GOAT.

Nadal’s physical decline huh? Interesting.

Here.

So, in the fanboy's mind Djokovic has only benefitted from FEDERER's decline, Nadal is still on his prime ya'll!!!

[ohiostate124]

Here.

So, in the fanboy's mind Djokovic has only benefitted from FEDERER's decline, Nadal is still on his prime ya'll!!!

Lol you completely missed the point again as usual. I wasn’t calling you out for that. I was calling you out for being a massive hypocrite.

[Dominik]

Hold up a minute, Dommy. Your boy ohio just called me out when I pointed out THIS EXACT same fact.

Your camp has got to get your story straight.

I'm not in any camp. Why not just enjoy the win? I'm being genuine here in saying I'm incredibly impressed by what Nadal did today and not the least bit upset, mad, coping, having a meltdown, etc. 15 years after he won his first he just thrashed the No. 1 player. That is an amazing achievement. If Federer closed out a win last year at Wimbledon I'd like to think you would have applauded him.

[iabs]

I'm not in any camp. Why not just enjoy the win? I'm being genuine here in saying I'm incredibly impressed by what Nadal did today and not the least bit upset, mad, coping, having a meltdown, etc. 15 years after he won his first he just thrashed the No. 1 player. That is an amazing achievement. If Federer closed out a win last year at Wimbledon I'd like to think you would have applauded him.

I'm not talking about you Dommy. But, being a mostly Federer supporter I kindda put you on his camp when arguing merits itt. Ohio is just a troll it seems that can't stomach his idol being passed in the slam race so he grabs at anything to cope.

And I would've definitely applauded Fed winning Wimbledon last year as I have in the past. No matter how the slam race ends, numbers just tell half the story. To me Fedal are the unquestionable co-GOATs of tennis and Djokovic as good as he is has benefitted tremendously from both their declines and absence of tennis talent to rival him on a consistent basis.

[ohiostate124]

I'm not talking about you Dommy. But, being a mostly Federer supporter I kindda put you on his camp when arguing merits itt. Ohio is just a troll it seems that can't stomach his idol being passed in the slam race so he grabs at anything to cope.

And I would've definitely applauded Fed winning Wimbledon last year as I have in the past. No matter how the slam race ends, numbers just tell half the story. To me Fedal are the unquestionable co-GOATs of tennis and Djokovic as good as he is has benefitted tremendously from both their declines and absence of tennis talent to rival him on a consistent basis.

You are unbelievable. Holy chit.

[Dominik]

100-2 at a slam is hard to comprehend. Maybe someone will come along one day and win more slams, who knows, but that is something we'll never see again.

[Dominik]

Federer was watching.

[gomil]

I'm not talking about you Dommy. But, being a mostly Federer supporter I kindda put you on his camp when arguing merits itt. Ohio is just a troll it seems that can't stomach his idol being passed in the slam race so he grabs at anything to cope.

And I would've definitely applauded Fed winning Wimbledon last year as I have in the past. No matter how the slam race ends, numbers just tell half the story. To me Fedal are the unquestionable co-GOATs of tennis and Djokovic as good as he is has benefitted tremendously from both their declines and absence of tennis talent to rival him on a consistent basis.

Nadal's ahead in my book right now since he's had to deal with two of the greatest ATG Number Ones at their primes but disagree on the bolded.

Djokovic is like a year younger than Nadal so what's with the decline talk? Nadal was the better player in their match ups during the early part of their careers but Djokovic has been better during the latter part of their careers.

Also, Djokovic beating Federer is 2015 is no different than Federer beating Agassi in 2004/05.

[iabs]

Nadal's ahead in my book right now since he's had to deal with two of the greatest ATG Number Ones at their primes but disagree on the bolded.

Djokovic is like a year younger than Nadal so what's with the decline talk? Nadal was the better player in their match ups during the early part of their careers but Djokovic has been better during the latter part of their careers.

Also, Djokovic beating Federer is 2015 is no different than Federer beating Agassi in 2004/05.

Injuries, injuries my friend. Chronic orthopedic conditions can only be managed for so long, the fact Nadal has accomplished so much despite his bad knees is a miracle.

[gomil]

The only thing I'd think twice before gloating if I was a Nadal fan is Slam H2H when 50 percent of their matches have been played at ONE slam (FO).

[iabs]

Federer was watching.

Roger as always a class act.

Did you guys see Novak's attitude in the 4 all game in the third set??

THAT is why no one likes him.

[gomil]

Injuries, injuries my friend. Chronic orthopedic conditions can only be managed for so long, the fact Nadal has accomplished so much despite his bad knees is a miracle.

Finding it hard to believe that the player who is still decimating the field on the most physically demanding surface at the age of 34 has had issues with bad knees in his career.

Nadal has almost never played a flat match even after a 5 hour encounter in the previous round.

If there's one thing that has hurt Nadal's career, it would be having a powder puff serve, not his physical traits. Nadal would have the advantage on every surface with a better serve against both Federer and Djokovic.

Roger as always a class act.

Really wouldn't read too much into this. Too much at stake to not have a "friendly" relationship with his biggest rival.

[iabs]

This video sums up some of my thoughts regarding the competition the big 3 have had to deal with during their careers.

[Trudope]

^ IMO federer had all the tools to lock down the GOAT title, but tennis is more than just skill and shot making. it's probably the most mentally demanding sport as you don't have anyone to rely on other than yourself, and physically demanding; and unfortunately in those 2 categories (mentally in particular) federer is behind these 2 guys.

last year should have been 21 for him, and that is not to mention all the times he choked during his career. 2 separate times he choked vs. djokovic when he had match points at the US open which could have been another 2 slams. Should have beaten del potro as well.

Fed should have had GS record locked already, especially given how weak the competition was in his earlier career, unfortunately he let too many opportunities go and now his record is in serious jeopardy of being surpassed. I find it very difficult to imagine him winning another slam and very difficult to imagine nadal not having at least 1 more french in him (to be realistic he probably has another 2-3 in him)

[euron]

I'm expecting a Joker win tomorrow.

this did not age well LOL

my god did joker not show up for this match. Props to Nadal for playing some pissening clay court tennis too.

[Dominik]

^ IMO federer had all the tools to lock down the GOAT title, but tennis is more than just skill and shot making. it's probably the most mentally demanding sport as you don't have anyone to rely on other than yourself, and physically demanding; and unfortunately in those 2 categories (mentally in particular) federer is behind these 2 guys.

last year should have been 21 for him, and that is not to mention all the times he choked during his career. 2 separate times he choked vs. djokovic when he had match points at the US open which could have been another 2 slams. Should have beaten del potro as well.

Fed should have had GS record locked already, especially given how weak the competition was in his earlier career, unfortunately he let too many opportunities go and now his record is in serious jeopardy of being surpassed. I find it very difficult to imagine him winning another slam and very difficult to imagine nadal not having at least 1 more french in him (to be realistic he probably has another 2-3 in him)

This is Nadal's day so enjoy it but let's not pile on Federer for his mental lapses and he hasn't retired yet so there could be something left in the tank. Of course I agree he's blown some big matches — and his attacking style requires more rolls of the dice than the other two — however Nadal lost a couple of AO finals being up a break in the 5th. 2014 final he got a slamless Stanislas who hadn't taken a set off him in 10 matches or whatever it was. Should have won Wimbledon 2018. Several years at Wimbledon in his prime he went out early to players you could only describe as journeymen. So he's had opportunities to pull ahead.

As for "how weak the competition was in his earlier career" I'm not buying it. Nadal was No. 2 and making Wimbledon finals from 2006 plus Federer was going through players who'd won slams before like Safin, Hewitt, Roddick, and Agassi* in his 30s. Going into the 2010s all 3 were playing at a high level + Murray and del Potro but what about the last 6 years?

*And speaking of Agassi, it's easy to think he was washed up but the "Big 3" today would be looking old right now if younger versions of themselves showed up. Take a few minutes to appreciate the level of ballstriking on a proper fast hard court. Please don't tell me the likes of Zverev and co. are hitting the ball cleaner than this.

[Dominik]

Lastly 2011 Djokovic and 2008 & 2010 Nadal displayed an incredibly high level but 2004 Federer is the highest level of tennis I've seen from any player. I'm not talking gladiator like battles of mental and physical toughness which the other two excelled at. You can call 2004-2007 a weak era but if you followed the sport back then you'd appreciate how much better Safin is to Zverev or Hewitt is to Medvedev, Roddick to Kevin Anderson, Davydenko to Goffin, and so on.

Federer just had so many options to end a point back then on fast courts and got even more cheap points on his serve.



I really can't see how Nadal and Djokjovic could have consistently troubled him on those courts without organizers slowing down conditions to suit them and produce more "epic battles" which is precisely what happened with a lot of 4hr+ matches. Even after 2008 when they were beating him as soon as the tour moved indoors or to a medium-fast court like Shanghai or Cincy he suddenly looked like the Federer of old. So his decline in his 30s was mainly down to conditions in my opinion.

2010 was Nadal's best season and he was on fire a couple of months earlier at the US Open. When faster conditions suited Federer's attacking game he obviously didn't look in decline at all. Ditto for 33 year old Federer vs. Djokovic.



Cliffs: No cope, just facts. Federer could have still beaten Djokovic and Nadal at slams on faster courts well into his 30s. 2017 AO the courts played faster than usual and we know what happened. He turned back the clock and beat his biggest rival.

[gomil]

This is Nadal's day so enjoy it but let's not pile on Federer for his mental lapses and he hasn't retired yet so there could be something left in the tank. Of course I agree he's blown some big matches — and his attacking style requires more rolls of the dice than the other two

Well, this is something I could agree on. I don't buy the fact that Federer is mental midget when winning most matches with a low percentage style of play requires a tremendous amount of mental strength of its own.

How well has Nadal fared against Federer in his 30s for example against a 36 year old Federer off clay? He's 0-5; Rafa's doing great against the rest of the tour by shortening points but this style doesn't seem to be working for him against Roger or Novak off clay.

However, Federer's biggest problem (even at his peak/prime) has been to close out tight matches against ANYONE on tour. Safin in AO'05 - lost that one; Nadal at Rome'06 - lost that one; 1/17 on BP's at FO'07 final; Nadal at AO'09 - lost that one; Del Potro in US'09 - lost that one; he's probably the best frontrunner (Roger played like only two 5 setters combined across all HC slams between 2004-2007) after Nadal but it's weird that he struggles to convert BPs (when he's easily the best tie break player over the past two decades).

Nadal beating Federer or Djokovic on clay as well is NOT* really what I'd consider to be a sign mental strength when he hasn't had to make any adjustments from day one on that surface. Beating Federer at Wimbledon '08, AO'09 (after a 5 hr Semi) or Djokovic at Olympics in '08, US Open in '13; now we're talking.

Overall, I'd rank Nadal, Djokovic and then Federer if we're talking about winning close matches.

Lastly 2011 Djokovic and 2008 & 2010 Nadal displayed an incredibly high level but 2004 Federer is the highest level of tennis I've seen from any player. I'm not talking gladiator like battles of mental and physical toughness which the other two excelled at. You can call 2004-2007 a weak era but if you followed the sport back then you'd appreciate how much better Safin is to Zverev or Hewitt is to Medvedev, Roddick to Kevin Anderson, Davydenko to Goffin, and so on.

Federer just had so many options to end a point back then on fast courts and got even more cheap points on his serve.

Federer's problems against Nadal or Djokovic are that he gets outmaneuvered and lacks stamina to hang in long baseline rallies on the slower surfaces. His work rates are usually low enough that lack of stamina doesn't hurt him but if he plays a long match, he's going to be weary during the latter parts of the match or during the next round.

At the end of the day, a one handed backhand will always be a liability in baseline exchanges against ATG left wings like Agassi, Safin, Nalbandian, Nadal and Djokovic. One of his best shots, the backhand slice also sits up on slower surfaces which many guys kill from the baseline. He has to end the point quickly since he plays with lower margins; it's why guys like Canas and Nalbandian were also giving him trouble.

I always thought Federer would clearly be the better player of the three as well after the age of 28 but that's not the case; for all the talk of Nadal and Djokovic burning out, they will not since they are relatively fitter and don't get hurt as often.

Highest level at a single tourney - I'd have to go with Nadal at FO'08 but the whole year, I'd put Rafa'08 or Djokovic'11 slightly ahead; Federer failed to win Monte Carlo or Rome in 2004 which hurts his case in my opinion.*

I do however think that Federer's win against Roddick at Wimbledon in 2004 was very impressive. 2004/2005 (until even mid 2006*) Federer when on was probably the best "shotmaker" over the past two decades (I see why you stressed the word tennis).

[Jayarbie]

100-2 at a slam is hard to comprehend. Maybe someone will come along one day and win more slams, who knows, but that is something we'll never see again.

Yep. Best clay court specialist the tennis world has even seen, and it's not even close.

[Jayarbie]

Elbow popped playing a league match Saturday. On the inside side ("golfers elbow" side). Hurts like hell and looks like someone jammed a walnut in it. Waiting for ortho office to call back. FML.