Oh boy ? I did just sit through reading all that with the same players leading ass-clown nation. What I think unfortunately happened is I actually lost brain cell functioning in the process which is unfortunate. Alas I digress?
Suggested pontification about herbal products and herbal extracts is better left to those with any kind of herbal study history behind them rather than ass-clown company owners known to suggest nothing more than inaccuracy after inaccuracy. As such, I am tired of being on the R&D team (indirectly of course because I tend to not get along well with imaginary friends) of SSE without getting any kind of compensation.
Nonetheless, I will PAY for someone to show me a discrepency in the studies available of the extract used in the MAN product and what is purported as the mechanism of action (I await the crickets). But, we?ll do as usual and be referenced in by PM to merely tell everyone what is adequately available ? conspiracy theorists aside, because, let?s face it ? without drama on this site, it would collapse.
In any event, one must consider many different notions ? first, which species of Epimedium is used. Seven of the better-known species have been used rather indiscriminately in the studies in question AND each has varying levels of icariins available. Yinyanghuo refers to the whole plant of Epimedium sagittatum (Sieb. et Zucc.) Maxim., Epimedium brevicornum Maxim. and Epimedium macranthum Morr. et Decne (Berberidaceae). The stem and leaf of E. sagittatum contain icariin, des-O-methylicariin, .beta.-anhydroicaritin and magnoflorine. The underground part contains the flavone des-O-methyl-.beta.-anhydroicaritin, icariins A, B, C, D and E, and lignan. EACH ONE, AS HAS ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED HAS BEEN ASSESSED TO POSSESS DIFFERENT EFFECTS THAT CONTRIBUTE TO THE POSITIVE EFFECTS OF EPIMEDIUM.
What we?re always interested in for this subsector of the industry is a misnomer at best. Increased Test is seen as inherently good, Decreased Cortisol is seen as inherently good and all other hormones follow suit as good or bad, but each has their place. Does each and every one individually translate into increased muscle mass?c?mon, gimme a break. Quantitative dictates qualitative here actually (kind of a rarity).
Traditional Chinese Medicine to encourage sexual performance and support healthy testosterone production, thus promoting sexual energy and overall sexual wellbeing. (Fukai T, Nomura T. ?Seven prenylated flavonol glycosides from two Epimedium species?. Phytochemistry: 1998:27:259-266). That?s correct ? SEVEN constituents were evaluated. But, who cares right? as we already said, increased libido too wouldn?t necessarily equate into body composition changes. Well, tell that to the guy with a low libido. The icariin in question that supports PDE5 inhibition to stimulate said effects is NOT the only way this works and each in and of themselves do NOT submit to the attempts by mass hysterics on bb.com at an attempt to discredit all of what we have just talked about.
How about supportive effects?
Pro-thyroid and Anti-cortisol properties each indirectly supports a pro-testosterone environment, but ass-clown nation may actually find that challenging to interpret once perusing through all the very bad science of a plethora of in vitros. Instead of getting into an abstract war and do all the work, you can read some below:
Wu T, Cui L, Zhang Z, Chen Z, Li Q, Liao J, Huang L. (1996). Experimental study on antagonizing action of herba Epimedii on side effects induced by glucocorticoids. Zhongguo Zhong Yao Za Zhi, 21, 748-751
Bucci, L.R. (2000). Selected herbals and human exercise performance. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 72, 624S-636S
Kuang AK, Chen JL, Chen MD. (1989). Effects of yang-restoring herb medicines on the levels of plasma corticosterone, testosterone and triiodothyronine. Zhong Xi Yi Jie He Za Zhi, 9, 737-738
But really, is this all? C?mon ? how about AChE (Acetylcholinestrase) activity, nerve stimulation and/or dopamine agonism? Think this has any potential at stimulating sexual neurotransmitters? Very likely. But instead, we?ll be very bad scientists at that and cite one out of a plethora in our survey and suggest it to be the end-all-be-all study.
How about MAO (Monoamine Oxidase) inhibition? All attributed to various extracts here. Think this might increase the levels of catecholamines (circulating and otherwise)? How many actually know what the hell they are? Think an overriding ability of pro-dopaminergic activity would at all encourage the release of Leutinizing Hormone (LH) from the pituitary? YESSIR! In fact, probably better-so than many things.
I could go on and on actually ? but the point of the matter is ? far too many companies are then trying to change researched extracts....40% Icariin, 50% Icariin, Do I hear 60% anyone? Then they apply research done with lower extracts to their write-up. Pretty sly, I do admit. Follow it up by Petri studies to suggest their extract is THE one and viola, they have themselves a purdy little product many people of the public domain would likely buy into.
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Moving along?
SSE can take his continual discussion of protodioscin and shove it because it is the EXACT same pontification, but seeing how we are into starting conspiracy theories, I have one that too can be backed up by research because I am sick and tired of his pimping the crap out of his horse**** products! In fact, I think he?d be best to call upon his imaginary friend ? the handy scientist to contest the following, because he?s certainly not qualified.
Even the mechanism behind tribulus is unclear. The LH-mimetic effect projection gets a lot of play time in the ads, but this is hardly agreed upon. Protodioscin converts to DHEA, which likely undergoes a conversion to both test AND estrogen (yup, this sounds like the frishiznit for post-cycle regimes everywhere). Think about the upstream nature of DHEA. Think about how DHEA concurrently administered with tamoxifen therapy actually NEGATES tamoxifen. But anyway ? try again with your suggested ?innovation.?
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Fadogia
How many literal times do we have to go through the same thing here?
LH-mimetic offering is NOT the only suggestion for how this is hypothesized to work. Let?s take your prototypical PH/PS/DeS/AAS user into account experiencing testicular shrinkage?the increased cholesterol synthesis at the level of the testes is likely a very important antagonistic mechanism to the pathology in question.
Let?s also understand how the HPTA works before responding. And understand, all things aside, the multiple offerings here at work in completion before an additional conspiracy theory begins ? dissolution of the tuberous outline is a rate-limited offering and one that I will not merely adopt like many ? the ?wishy-washy? subjective mentality that would merely suggest I am playing holier than thou and/or the mere fact that I don?t understand what the hell I am talking about.
Its threads like these that ARE dictated by supply-side much like random journals, but that would require how the industry really works ? save the big ?ginormous? labs and ?random? farms to chase around a rare pig?s saliva, or seeking out this rare extract off the cost of India somewhere (that cannot be disclosed for fear that you all would obviously seek out my source), and cleverly disguising my ingredients as being the rarest of the rare, super-duper (yet completely DSHEA compliant, of course) extract ? one that I can apply apparently directly to research indicating the actual extracts showing benefit and to top it off, I?ll even cite such literature in my attempts to maintain legitimacy, however ? this still doesn?t even compare to our oooober, dupppper extract ?bro,? I assure you.
WOW!
D_
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