Ongoing Study Discussion Thread - Nutrition, Training, Health etc.

[boo99]

The first part is true, the second part not necessarily. I don't think there's any evidence that eating more than 1.6 gram per kg increases MPS more than 1.6 gram per kg does.

Then there's also the issue that MPS and muscle retention/gain aren't perfectly correlated. So even if it increases MPS it doesn't necessarily have to be beneficial.

I’m curious as to what Jorn has to say about increasing protein while in a deficit.

I thought Jeff Nippard asked him this in the MPS YT Videos.

He just wrote to me on IG so I’ll chill asking him cause I know he’s busy but curious to what he has to say

Just curious, what is the primary means by which we’re measuring MPS?

Curious as well to this

[Mrpb]

Just curious, what is the primary means by which we’re measuring MPS?

Jorn explains it well: https://www.nutritiontactics.com/mea...ein-synthesis/

[AdamWW]

Jorn explains it well: https://www.nutritiontactics.com/mea...ein-synthesis/

Thanks!

[boo99]

Jorn explains it well: https://www.nutritiontactics.com/mea...ein-synthesis/

I need to re-read this. I missed this and I read this multiple times

[Mrpb]

high-dose leucine supplementation did not enhance gains in muscle strength and mass after a 12-week resistance training program in young resistance-trained males consuming adequate amounts of dietary protein.

https://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/A..._on.96364.aspx

Boo might not like this...

[boo99]

high-dose leucine supplementation did not enhance gains in muscle strength and mass after a 12-week resistance training program in young resistance-trained males consuming adequate amounts of dietary protein.

https://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/A..._on.96364.aspx

Boo might not like this...

No. I don't lol, but science is science

Thank you for sharing

I thought I did notice changes from it like.....oh is it nearly 2 yrs ago we discussed this?

That placebo effect tho

I would say after reading this that Leu supplementation would be best for those with a lower daily total amount of it who want to bring it up some to a range suitable for MPS

[Mrpb]

I thought I did notice changes from it like.....oh is it nearly 2 yrs ago we discussed this?

Maybe it does work for older people? I’m not sure if this has been studied yet.

But I reckon it won’t have any effect for people already consuming 2 gram per kg.

[boo99]

Maybe it does work for older people? I’m not sure if this has been studied yet.

But I reckon it won’t have any effect for people already consuming 2 gram per kg.

I'm glad you said older people and not old people lol

Last night a younger person called me old as I was walking down the street lol

Yea I agree. If we are already getting in enough protein there is likely no additional benefit --------->I'm thinking of BCAAs right about now

[Mrpb]

BCAAs as a supplement are utterly useless. Leucine is good for people who don't need enough protein.

[boo99]

BCAAs as a supplement are utterly useless. Leucine is good for people who don't need enough protein.

That is all people need to know

Especially with BCCAs, which I used to get into discussions about with clients, but I don't anymore

I'd say you'd be better off paying me for more training than wasting it on BCAAs

[AdamWW]

BCAAs as a supplement are utterly useless. Leucine is good for people who don't need enough protein.

What are your thoughts on EAA's?

I sometimes take a serving of complete EAA powder during training... mainly just because I prefer it to plain water... but I recall hearing they 'may' help with recovery, though it seems unlikely if you already have a meal pre-workout with enough protein.

[deano110]

^^ That was interesting, thanx for that Adam.

I think Jorn writes in his MPS research of supplementing leucine powder to vegan based diets to bring up the Leu amounts to where MPS is triggered at a maximum

Yeah I’ve seen similar recommendations too. Another good thing to note is that even though WPI was superior, the vegan protein did dramatically raise MPS, so it’s not an all or nothing comparison, just less optimal than the whey.

This is that vegan protein powders vs. whey study. Even though the leucine amount was matched between drinks the leucine peak from whey was much higher.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...s-11-02987.pdf

Sorry I'm a little late to reply but found this study really interesting, look forward to seeing further research between plant and animal based protein.

At this stage, if someone was using a plant protein and wanted to maximise MPS, would the hypothesis be to supplement with leucine? Would be interested to see Jorn's recommendations regarding this.

[Mrpb]

@Adam, 10 gram EAAs maximizes MPS. If you had protein before your workout it makes no sense to have it during your workout.

[Mrpb]

Sorry I'm a little late to reply but found this study really interesting, look forward to seeing further research between plant and animal based protein.

At this stage, if someone was using a plant protein and wanted to maximise MPS, would the hypothesis be to supplement with leucine? Would be interested to see Jorn's recommendations regarding this.

What’s your age?

For young guys doing split workouts a vegan powder that contains 3 gram leucine should come a long way. For older guys 4 gram would be better.

[deano110]

What’s your age?

For young guys doing split workouts a vegan powder that contains 3 gram leucine should come a long way. For older guys 4 gram would be better.

I'm 31 so not sure if I'm considered young or old anymore ha

[Mrpb]

I'm 31 so not sure if I'm considered young or old anymore ha

Are you doing full body workouts or splits?

Is all your protein vegan?

[deano110]

Are you doing full body workouts or splits?

Is all your protein vegan?

PPL split, no I have varied protein sources (animal meats, dairy and plant based). I have a serving of vegan protein powder in my pre-training meal which has prompted the additional leucine supplementation question, as it wouldn't costly or inconvenient to do so.

[Mrpb]

PPL split, no I have varied protein sources (animal meats, dairy and plant based). I have a serving of vegan protein powder in my pre-training meal which has prompted the additional leucine supplementation question, as it wouldn't costly or inconvenient to do so.

If you'd like to maximize MPS with this protein powder it would make sense to have at least 4 gram leucine in it.

Will one suboptimal protein serving per day have a significant effect on your results? Unlikely. (I'm assuming your protein intake is 2 gram per kg or higher)

[Mrpb]

But but Omega 6 is bad for you!

Omega-6 Fatty Acids and Cardiovascular Disease
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full...AHA.119.040331

[deano110]

If you'd like to maximize MPS with this protein powder it would make sense to have at least 4 gram leucine in it.

Will one suboptimal protein serving per day have a significant effect on your results? Unlikely. (I'm assuming your protein intake is 2 gram per kg or higher)

I agree, I don't mean to come across as pedantic about it just wondering what consensus was when supplementing with a vegan protein powder - particularly in-light of that study.

Thanks for the responses, mainly because it's practical and inexpensive I'll probably cover all bases and supplement with leucine whilst acknowledging the very marginal, if any, benefit.

[Mrpb]

I agree, I don't mean to come across as pedantic about it just wondering what consensus was when supplementing with a vegan protein powder - particularly in-light of that study.

Thanks for the responses, mainly because it's practical and inexpensive I'll probably cover all bases and supplement with leucine whilst acknowledging the very marginal, if any, benefit.

Well I asked if the new leucine study changed Jorn's mind about his leucine theory. He still believes it may have merit in certain circumstances. Yours would be one.

[deano110]

Well I asked if the new leucine study changed Jorn's mind about his leucine theory. He still believes it may have merit in certain circumstances. Yours would be one.

Perfect, thank you.

Coincidentally my pre-workout meal consists of a vegan protein powder and oats - just looked at the amino acid profile of oats and they're particularly high in leucine (approximately 7.4g per 100g) so ironically I've been covered all along!

[Mrpb]

Perfect, thank you.

Coincidentally my pre-workout meal consists of a vegan protein powder and oats - just looked at the amino acid profile of oats and they're particularly high in leucine (approximately 7.4g per 100g) so ironically I've been covered all along!

I doubt that's accurate. 100 gram oats is 1.0 gram leucine according to cronometer.com.

7.4 gram would only be reached if someone has added leucine.

[boo99]

Well I asked if the new leucine study changed Jorn's mind about his leucine theory. He still believes it may have merit in certain circumstances. Yours would be one.

Ahh I missed this yesterday.

Glad you got to ask him.

What are the certain circumstances?


Guessing for those not getting in enough Leu in each meal?

[Mrpb]

Ahh I missed this yesterday.

Glad you got to ask him.

What are the certain circumstances?


Guessing for those not getting in enough Leu in each meal?

Paraphrasing:
*For people that want to do everything possible to maximize gains, to leave no stone unturned, to push the envelope.

*If you're already eating enough protein adding leucine is more likely to do anything than adding more protein. If it does anything it's probably a very small effect, very hard to measure in studies.

[boo99]

Paraphrasing:
*For people that want to do everything possible to maximize gains, to leave no stone unturned, to push the envelope.

*If you're already eating enough protein adding leucine is more likely to do anything than adding more protein. If it does anything it's probably a very small effect, very hard to measure in studies.

Thanks

I haven’t bought any in over a year

Maybe I’ll push that envelope again

[Mrpb]

Thanks

I haven’t bought any in over a year

Maybe I’ll push that envelope again

Given that supplementing leucine can also have effects on serotonin levels and brain chemistry I'm not touching it. This is not built on strong evidence though (just like the positive effect on muscle growth isn't).

[deano110]

I doubt that's accurate. 100 gram oats is 1.0 gram leucine according to cronometer.com.

7.4 gram would only be reached if someone has added leucine.

I stand corrected, after a Google search multiple sources stated leucine to be around 7.4g per 100g, hence my post above.

Looking into it further the amount of leucine has been misinterpreted by these sources, the 7.4 figure actually relates to a percentile not unit of mass, and in fact of the protein in oats the proportion which is leucine is 7.4 percent not grams.

Which corresponds perfectly with cronometer.com (14g x 7.4% = 1.036g). Anyway, sorry for derailing the thread slightly with this minuscule issue, just wanted to clear up my confusion ha.

[Mrpb]

Never really looked into this: SFA reduces risk of stroke?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...39475319303801

Heisman2 have you looked into it?

[boo99]

Never really looked into this: SFA reduces risk of stroke?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...39475319303801

Heisman2 have you looked into it?

Interesting

Thanks for posting


In4 Heisman2 reply