Bench and OHP sux

[Time-Man]

Hi guys , next month will be a year that I have been training with Al Pro's system . Although the weight that I push has increased since I started I feel that my bench and OHP really sux . Is this just a matter of keep at it , it will go better as time goes along ? It's just demorolizing when I look at the "ideal" that you should be able to bench your own body weight , squat 1.5 times your body weight and after a year of training i'm no where near that .

At the moment my stats
6'6" @ 207lbs (last year Jan my weight was 246lbs)
Squat 198 lbs
Bench 132 lbs
OHP 61 lbs

[mtpockets]

Hi guys , next month will be a year that I have been training with Al Pro's system . Although the weight that I push has increased since I started I feel that my bench and OHP really sux . Is this just a matter of keep at it , it will go better as time goes along ? It's just demorolizing when I look at the "ideal" that you should be able to bench your own body weight , squat 1.5 times your body weight and after a year of training i'm no where near that .

At the moment my stats
6'6" @ 207lbs (last year Jan my weight was 246lbs)
Squat 198 lbs
Bench 132 lbs
OHP 61 lbs

Are you following a program?

[Time-Man]

Are you following a program?

Yup Allpro simple beginner's routine

[dazlittle]

There is no one size fits all formula but I feel that if you have been consistent for the year your lifts should be further along than they are currently. its not an excuse but remember your levers are longer than other non vertically gifted humans so you have to move the weight quite a bit farther than the manlets around here!!!

Just keep on plugging away, be aggressive, be consistent, and you will get stronger.

[Vermonter]

While it is good to chase the carrot and pursue progressive overload, what is more important is training effectively and putting in the effort that elicits results.
Mix it up. If you need an ego boost, do some decline benching for a week so you can easily throw more weight on the bar (which in turn will place higher demand on triceps). Do a few sets with a moderate rate where you do very slow eccentric, do pauses, etc. Time under tension and total control over the weight. It will make a low weight heavy a lot quicker (effort! intensity!).
Keep on a program so you can track your volume and such, but tailor it for your own strengths and weaknesses.
Typically, I find that I respond better with higher frequency, so I need to make sure not to go crazy with volume in my workouts (while still putting in good intensity). When I was younger I could just beat my muscles to a pulp and recover with ease and get fine results, now that I'm over 40 I find it better to not overdo it but stay consistent.

Rule out the possibility that the issue isn't your training, too. Eating and recovery (sleep) are vital. You can't expect to improve if you aren't recuperating.

[JeremyM07201978]

Are you in sustained calorie deficit OP? I stalled when I had been and the only thing that brought up weight was eating more.

[Time-Man]

Are you in sustained calorie deficit OP? I stalled when I had been and the only thing that brought up weight was eating more.

Well tbh that is still a very "grey" area for me as i worked very hard dropping my built in center spread and tube around my waist , so now following the advice i got from the allpro sticky gaining weight till i hit 98kg then cutting again down to 90 kg is short mini cut and bulks making sure i keep my diet clean and protein high , have seen that if my calorie deficit is too much i loose a lot of power in my lifts

[Time-Man]

There is no one size fits all formula but I feel that if you have been consistent for the year your lifts should be further along than they are currently. its not an excuse but remember your levers are longer than other non vertically gifted humans so you have to move the weight quite a bit farther than the manlets around here!!!

Just keep on plugging away, be aggressive, be consistent, and you will get stronger.

Thank you , yup i have realised there is no one way fits all , i have to add (no a excuse) but i pinched a nerve in my neck last year lost ALL my power on my righthand side and basically had to reset my bench from 50kg back down to battling my ass off to lift a measly 15kg took me 3 months to build my strength back up to lift 50kg , and yeah although blessed with height that in itself is also a curse as you say my levers are much longer than short stocky guys

[JeremyM07201978]

Well tbh that is still a very "grey" area for me as i worked very hard dropping my built in center spread and tube around my waist , so now following the advice i got from the allpro sticky gaining weight till i hit 98kg then cutting again down to 90 kg is short mini cut and bulks making sure i keep my diet clean and protein high , have seen that if my calorie deficit is too much i loose a lot of power in my lifts

I was the same way. I was very worried I would waste all the long time spent losing weight by upping my calories. I had 2 competing goals - get stronger and lose weight. I had to abandon my deficit, but I didn't go crazy. I took calories up slowly until I was in around a 300 cal surplus and I started seeing results. I did put on 11 lbs. in 5 months and was worried about that, but honestly, I was so happy my lifts were increasing. Felt good. Now I'm at or slightly below maintenance. I'm going to very slowly take those 11 lbs back off.

I will say this...there is always somebody that will get on and say, "Oh yeah, I increased my bench by X in 6 months easy..." Don't listen to stuff like that or try not to. Stay focused on your current goal. If it is to lose weight in deficit, do that until you achieve desired weight, but still lift hard. If, however, you want to add weight in these lifts, make sure you are eating to support that (consistently).

[tblodg15]

I focused on gaining strength for the first time during my gaining phase the last 6 months and I learned a few things.

Besides being in a modest surplus as Jeremy mentioned I found the frequency, volume, intensity, and recovery need to be optimized for what works best for you. Really I think everyone knows that but I am not sure a lot of people make the necessary adjustments.

I am not familiar with the programming of All Pro but with the minimal progress you have made I would not be afraid to try some adjustments. If sleep, diet, and recovery are good then increasing volume would be my first step. The difficulty is determining if you are currently doing too little or too much?

I personally saw a good increase in strength after stalling for a bit when I backed off the intensity a little (lower weight) and added more work sets. It seemed counterintuitive because most programs are pushing to keep adding 5 pounds but I was stalled at 3 sets of 5 no matter how much weight I tried to pile on. When I dropped down 5 or 10 pounds and did 5 sets of 5 I saw an immediate improvement.

Another thing that helped me was working up to a single at an RPE of 8 then backing off and doing several work sets of 5.

But none of these things may help you because it is individual as well as depending on your training status. The things that worked for me are more appropriate to an intermediate than a novice but thought I would share what I found.

And I agree with Jeremy and don’t compare yourself to others, only your own past progress.

[drkelly74]

How many times a week are you benching and doing OHP? How many sets and reps?

[OldFartTom]

FWIW... Some lifts are relatively more sensitive to cutting (OHP, bench) and other far less so (DL).

Some lifts are notoriously slower to gain (OHP, bench) than others (DL)

Sounds like you are looking at a tough combination: hard+harder=harderer

Keep on.. keeping on going

[Jtbny]

1: Make sure your form is good
2: Stop doing AllPros where the reps start at 8 and go to 12 if strength is your goal.
3: Add in push-ups. You're weak if 132lb bench is your max after a year of lifting and you have two arms.

[MajorTendonitis]

How many times a week are you benching and doing OHP? How many sets and reps?

This is my question also. I have muscle memory,so I get back up to speed fast . I hadn’t benched 225 for a year,and decided to go heavy again and am repping 225-5 .
But at my age it takes 7 rest days before I bench again. I’d like to bench once a week, but I go downhill if I do .
I also lose tons of strength on bench pressing if I do military presses, so I don’t do them . And I find there terrible on my rotators also .
So I only do flat and incline benching .
I also like to keep my reps low when I go heavy . I warm up with 8-12 reps , but have found that I can burn myself out quickly if I do high reps on my way to my heaviest set .
Sometimes I’ll only do a few reps at mid level weights , then do more when I’m getting to my peak .

If I max out at 5-200 , the next bench session I’ll add 5 pounds , and continue doing that till I’m benching 225-5 .
Seems like it’s easy to pick up 5 pounds on the next chest workout . If I fail to get 5 reps Ill usually drop down 5 pounds

[Silentpoet]

Form. Watch lots of youtube form videos. It helps me with my lifts. If I get a good tight setup for the bench I may have to drop the bar down a bit just to lift it off. Keeping my upper back tight really helps keep my shoulders healthier. I have made so much progress in the last 2-3 months. My work sets have gone up 30-40 pounds in that time. Lots of form work.

[Time-Man]

All good points you guys are making . For those who don't know Allpro's programming it is training 3X a week using your basic compound lifts starting rep 8 ,2 sets everytime in the same order running in 5 week cycles , heavy . medium light day every week beginning of week you add a rep to all exersizes at week 5 you have a "test " day 24 reps in total ,if you pass all lifts you add weight and new cycle drop reps and start new cycle . Order of lifts are squat/bench/BOR/OHP/SLDL/Curls/

I'm a stickler for form and make sure that form is 100% on point making sure to not use momentum or ego lifting in any of my presses .

But i have started to think maybe it's time for me to move to a different type of program maybe a push / pull / leg type of programming that i can do more volume and wider range of lifts ? As someone said lifting is not a cookie cutter science and that everyone's body responds diff to doing things diff and i agree i should have seen more change in amount 's lifted and muscle build in a year's constant training

Any suggestions what i can look at next and try ? I can train 6 days a week as i work for myself i'm not stuck to only training 2 or 3 times a week

[BromanianDL]

Do you have long arms? If so, your bench and OHP will always be tougher than your other lifts. I would switch programs. Probably to an upper/lower. This will allow you to OHP and bench hard twice per week.

[Time-Man]

Do you have long arms? If so, your bench and OHP will always be tougher than your other lifts. I would switch programs. Probably to an upper/lower. This will allow you to OHP and bench hard twice per week.

Yes i do have long arms , used it to a advantage when i did martial arts , got to say never really had upper body mass / strength , i'm thinking to change to a Upper/Lower/Pull/Push/Legs Split and see if that won't work better for me , maybe something like the viking bare bones

[drkelly74]

So you are benching and doing OHP 3x per week, but for only 2 sets during each workout/day?

[OldFartTom]

If you keep getting stalled you need something early intermediate, I know AllPro is already a bit like that in it's approach - but whadayawant?
If classic strength/big lifts is good, what about good old dependable MadCow (or MadCow tweak with a little more volume)
What are your goals?

[Cantplankwell]

I am not sure if the OP has clearly stated his goal:

Compete in power lifting

Bodybuilding

Overall athletic development

General fitness?

etc etc.

I think this is very important

Some of the programs thrown around I think may not be a good fit for someone who seems to be primarily concerned with weight loss and having a flat stomach. I have some of these same concerns myself, and starting out as a skinny fat older guy...there was no way I was going to eat my way to bigger squat or bench. A program that is primary designed around conditioning might be better...with a slight calorie deficit. The drawback is progress on the lifts...the numbers achieved are going to be slow, the lifting will be there....just on the back burner.

[Time-Man]

I am not sure if the OP has clearly stated his goal:

Compete in power lifting

Bodybuilding

Overall athletic development

General fitness?

etc etc.

I think this is very important

Some of the programs thrown around I think may not be a good fit for someone who seems to be primarily concerned with weight loss and having a flat stomach. I have some of these same concerns myself, and starting out as a skinny fat older guy...there was no way I was going to eat my way to bigger squat or bench. A program that is primary designed around conditioning might be better...with a slight calorie deficit. The drawback is progress on the lifts...the numbers achieved are going to be slow, the lifting will be there....just on the back burner.

Thank you Cantplankwell you actually hit the nail on the head made me sit and rethink what i want to achieve . I was also skinny fat and managed to drop a lot 22kg to be exact , in the beginning thought i wanted to do bodybuilding physique but as i progressed with my journey changing my whole lifestyle i realized that i'm actually still "young" enough to do fitness activities with my son hence us doing our first warrior OCR type of race in Aug as well both of us now running too we are fit at the moment and do a 10km race every month .

So taking this into consideration guess i'm more aiming for a functional strength with a athletic build , and although i know this you actually reminded me that i should stop to compare the amount of weight i can push compared to other guys or even getting bigger pecs and muscles i'm never going to look like a bodybuilder so just carry on the way i am going at the moment , you also made me realize that with my activities as they are at the moment getting fitter that i can not expect my muscles to grow like someone who purely focus on bodybuilding .

Funny how when you on a couple of bodybuilding forums / groups you tend to loose focus on what your goal is by looking at what other do and look like , that is why i love this forum guys give advice and point you into the right direction .

Going to finish this cycle of allpro then look at another type of program tbh after a year of doing the same routine same lifts it actually has gotten very boring

[tblodg15]

Some of the programs thrown around I think may not be a good fit for someone who seems to be primarily concerned with weight loss and having a flat stomach. I have some of these same concerns myself, and starting out as a skinny fat older guy...there was no way I was going to eat my way to bigger squat or bench. A program that is primary designed around conditioning might be better...with a slight calorie deficit. The drawback is progress on the lifts...the numbers achieved are going to be slow, the lifting will be there....just on the back burner.

I am not sure I agree with this. The strength training for weight loss and for building muscle are basically the same. Yes you need to be in a calorie deficit to lose fat and yes the lifts will not progress as fast in a deficit. But the weight training doesn’t change, or at least it shouldn’t.

Now powerlifting with low rep schemes is different but no one who is trying to get in shape or lose body fat is focused on powerlifting.

[shaneinga]

So I understand this, you are saying that you have been following a linear progression program, which Allpro is, for a year and you are OHP is 60 pounds? Your bench is 132 pounds? Have you had any injury that has caused missed time or huge reset?

You need to ask yourself what you REALLY want and what direction you REALLY want to go. Unless you are blessed by genetics, that lean and athletic look, contrary to popular belief, is not easy to accomplish. Lifting heavy and working hard in the gym will be required.

Functional fitness and being athletic is definitely a good goal and something to shoot for. However, functional for what? If your goal is to be a better runner, then do what runners do.

It might be worth hiring a trainer to get some professional advice on diet/nutrition as well as form checks to get you moving in the right direction.

I am not trying to be rude. I ran Allpro myself. It's not a bad program and I ran it for 7 cycles and I can understand the boredom and grind that comes with it. However if the effort in the gym isn't there no program in the world is going to bring real progress.

Good luck to you.

[blue9steel]

Your bench doesn't seem that bad in relation to your squat, however they both seem pretty low for your height. For me, whenever I'm not progressing at a good speed it generally means either A) My diet is wrong or B) My training isn't optimal (or both of course). Probably your best course of action is to post all of your diet and training info to try and get some specific feedback.

Here are some possibly reasonable bench press standards: https://exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/BenchStandards

[Jtbny]

Now powerlifting with low rep schemes is different but no one who is trying to get in shape or lose body fat is focused on powerlifting.

I'd have to disagree w/ya here. Many people pick up the sport of powerlifting precisely to drop body fat AND get in shape.

[gcoulson]

FWIW... Some lifts are relatively more sensitive to cutting (OHP, bench) and other far less so (DL).

Some lifts are notoriously slower to gain (OHP, bench) than others (DL)

Sounds like you are looking at a tough combination: hard+harder=harderer

Keep on.. keeping on going

And trying to progress these lifts while OP has not been in a sustained calories surplus is hardererest

[tblodg15]

I'd have to disagree w/ya here. Many people pick up the sport of powerlifting precisely to drop body fat AND get in shape.

When I hear powerlifting I am thinking competition and I can’t imagine very many people trying to lose fat and get in shape are competing in powerlifting as beginners. Plus weight loss is not a focus in powerlifting because of the negative affect on strength. But I don’t go to meets myself so I could be wrong.

[MajorTendonitis]

OP, I bet if you bench heavy every 8 th day ,that you will progress on bench . I know it sounds odd, but a gym owner told me this and that’s when I finally started progressing.
If I were in my 29’s I’d bench once a week,but it’s to often in your 40’s and 50’s

[Jtbny]

When I hear powerlifting I am thinking competition and I can’t imagine very many people trying to lose fat and get in shape are competing in powerlifting as beginners. Plus weight loss is not a focus in powerlifting because of the negative affect on strength. But I don’t go to meets myself so I could be wrong.

Tons of beginners use powerlifting to get in better shape. If you're talking elite level then I'd agree; it will hinder your progress, but for people who compete locally it's a great tool. For example; I've seen some super heavies take up powerlifting and drop down to the 242 class all the while building LBM and getting significantly stronger.