Should I cut or continue to lean bulk

[srh3576]

I was overweight around 2 years ago I went on keto went from 5’8 200 to 5’8 145. I was extremely weak so around 9 months ago I started to lean bulk I’m now around 185. I can only bench 1 rep max 150 but my bench has been increasing I just started bench around 2 months ago after doing only dumbbell presses. My main goal is to have a 6 pac (i have no idea how post pics on this first time using) I’m 18 btw

[giarmyjoe]

I was overweight around 2 years ago I went on keto went from 5’8 200 to 5’8 145. I was extremely weak so around 9 months ago I started to lean bulk I’m now around 185. I can only bench 1 rep max 150 but my bench has been increasing I just started bench around 2 months ago after doing only dumbbell presses. My main goal is to have a 6 pac (i have no idea how post pics on this first time using)

There is really no way to lean bulk. You are either gaining or cutting.

If you are not worried about gaining strength and just want six pack abs cutting again would probably be your best bet. At 5'8 you'll have to be leaner than 185 to have abs if you don't have a lot of muscle.

[TheUnderdog83]

You’re kind of all over the place. From 200, down to 145, up to 185, want to get stronger, but also want 6 pack abs.

First thing you need to do is get these wild weight swings under control. Read the link in my signature block about nutrition. Once you get your nutrition dialed in, then you need to pick a path and stick to it. Gaining 40 pounds in 9 months is not a lean bulk, a lean bulk is around 2 pounds per month, which is the maximum amount of muscle a first year lifter can gain in a month, you gained more than double that, meaning over half of what you gained was fat.

[srh3576]

You’re kind of all over the place. From 200, down to 145, up to 185, want to get stronger, but also want 6 pack abs.

First thing you need to do is get these wild weight swings under control. Read the link in my signature block about nutrition. Once you get your nutrition dialed in, then you need to pick a path and stick to it. Gaining 40 pounds in 9 months is not a lean bulk, a lean bulk is around 2 pounds per month, which is the maximum amount of muscle a first year lifter can gain in a month, you gained more than double that, meaning over half of what you gained was fat.

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I think most of my weight gain was due to having no muscle at all during the time I’ve been bulking my bf percentage dropped a bit.

[Mrpb]

Upload a picture to your body space for better advice.

[Mrpb]

Your body fat is probably above 20%. Basically two options: cutting (focus on fat loss) or recomping (focus on getting stronger while slowly losing fat).

My advice: cut down losing 1 to 1.5 pounds per week while getting stronger on a good routine. Fierce 5 Novice would be my pick.

[srh3576]

Your body fat is probably above 20%. Basically two options: cutting (focus on fat loss) or recomping (focus on getting stronger while slowly losing fat).

My advice: cut down losing 1 to 1.5 pounds per week while getting stronger on a good routine. Fierce 5 Novice would be my pick.

for the fierce 5 novice can I do something other then squats

[TheUnderdog83]

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I think most of my weight gain was due to having no muscle at all during the time I’ve been bulking my bf percentage dropped a bit.

Let me repeat, a first year natural lifter will not gain more than 25 pounds of muscle in 12 months under perfect conditions (age, genetics, diet, lifting program, sleep, etc.). You will not beat that number legally. More than half of your 40 pound gain was fat unless you’re not a natural lifter.

[AdamWW]

for the fierce 5 novice can I do something other then squats

Why ? Squats are the best leg builder you’ll ever find.

[Mrpb]

for the fierce 5 novice can I do something other then squats

Why?

[hercules666]

Why ? Squats are the best leg builder you’ll ever find.

Are you serious here?

[Mrpb]

Are you serious here?

Good question. "Squats vs. leg press for big legs", good article by Lyle: https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle...big-legs.html/

[hercules666]

Good question. "Squats vs. leg press for big legs", good article by Lyle: https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle...big-legs.html/

Personally if I had to pick one best bang for your buck exercise for legs, I'd go with hack squats

Barbbell squats uses way too much stability and core muscles to be the best exercise for leg growth

Not saying they are bad just not the best when focus is solely on leg muscle hypertrophy

[hardyboysare]

Personally if I had to pick one best bang for your buck exercise for legs, I'd go with hack squats

Barbbell squats uses way too much stability and core muscles to be the best exercise for leg growth

Not saying they are bad just not the best when focus is solely on leg muscle hypertrophy

Sorry I would always say stick with squats as the major compound movement I would argue if you are solely focusing on single growth by targeting the individual muscle in question then you will be forever hitting all the secondary and primary muscle instead of hitting them all at one go (basically doing isolation exercises for each muscle).

The hack squat is great for building leg muscles but it lacks the benefit that squats have in trunk activation which in my opinion is one of the main reason people (mainly men) exercise for and that is to build a six pack so any chance to hit abs more can't be missed just because it hurts a bit. Not to mention not every gym has a hack squat machine where a barbell is standard or can be improvised.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28704312

So OP stick to the program and squat.

[AdamWW]

Enjoy your leg press then, i'll stick with squats... i'd rather engage my entire body than recline on a bench during my workouts.

[Mrpb]

So are they "the best leg builder"? No, not necessarily.

Do they cause more trunk activation than leg press? Yes, that's very likely.

Is that necessarily a benefit? No, it depends on your goals etc.

Barbell squats uses way too much stability and core muscles to be the best exercise for leg growth

Not saying they are bad just not the best when focus is solely on leg muscle hypertrophy

Yeah I pretty much agree. Although some people get great leg hypertrophy from squats, many people don't. It depends...

[hardyboysare]

So are they "the best leg builder"? No, not necessarily.

Do they cause more trunk activation than leg press? Yes, that's very likely.

Is that necessarily a benefit? No, it depends on your goals etc.

Although some people get great leg hypertrophy from squats, many people don't. It depends...

I am mostly in agreement with this. However for you OP if you are wishing to skip squats then that is a sign to me at least that you should be doing them. As a novice I believe you should stick to what the program states missing bits and changing others will cause the balance to be out.

As for changing on the Fierce 5 novice squat part I can imagine you would be shot in the Workout Program section of this forum for that question and I am sure the designer Davis would not agree. I can't imagine any of the major programs would ever consider changing the squat parts (starting strength, stronglifts, generic bulking routine, 5/3/1, Allpro etc). I know Mark Rippetoe, Mehdi Hadim and Jim Wendler would not agree (actually Mark and Jim would be very annoyed) So my advice for you OP is keep them in and learn to love them.

If of course you are physically impaired and can't do them then I would stick with leg press simply because if you can't do barbell squats then hack squats are most likely out of the question too.

[AdamWW]

So are they "the best leg builder"? No, not necessarily.

Do they cause more trunk activation than leg press? Yes, that's very likely.

Is that necessarily a benefit? No, it depends on your goals etc.

Yeah I pretty much agree. Although some people get great leg hypertrophy from squats, many people don't. It depends...

Has this been shown/proven in long-term studies?

Personally, it feels at least very impractical to try and 'piece together' optimal leg development with isolated non-free weight exercises when something like a squat will engage your quads, lower back, glutes, core, even calfs... whereas leg press would do far less in terms of overall development. I don't even know how you'd program that... you'd need something like 4-5 movements to get as much as you could from just squatting and doing minimal accessories.

I'm not saying for certain people who cannot perform squats properly, to-depth, etc, that subbing in presses or hacks could get you good results, it just seems hard to accept that it'd be as-good for those who CAN properly squat to just hop on machines to mimic a natural movement pattern.

[Mrpb]

I don't recommend novices to change workout programs either. In this thread I was only reacting to the idea that squats are the best leg builder.

Has this been shown/proven in long-term studies?

That some people don't get good hypertrophy from squats? I don't recall any studies specifically but just think about what happens when someone is squatting and they can't progress in weight because their lower back won't allow it. With leg press they could still be progressing and be pushing more weekly volume.

Personally, it feels at least very impractical to try and 'piece together' optimal leg development with isolated non-free weight exercises when something like a squat will engage your quads, lower back, glutes, core, even calfs... whereas leg press would do far less in terms of overall development. I don't even know how you'd program that... you'd need something like 4-5 movements to get as much as you could from just squatting and doing minimal accessories.

Actually the barbell back squat is less optimal for leg development than you think. It's not optimal for glutes (similar as leg press) and it sucks for hamstrings (similar as leg press).

If you really want to achieve optimal leg development from 1 movement the rear foot elevated squat would probably win. I remember seeing a study where it achieved the same quad activation as the BBS, but better hamstring and glute activation. Not that activation always translates to more muscle built but in this scenario it would be likely.

it just seems hard to accept that it'd be as-good for those who CAN properly squat to just hop on machines to mimic a natural movement pattern.

Sounds a bit like an appeal to nature.

For pure quad hypertrophy it's generally as good. For other parts of the leg I haven't seen significant differences.

For athletic purposes and for trunk development, squats are better of course.