Squat help - come at me brahs

[sy2502]

Squat is the bane of my existence. I suck at it, I squat less weight than a 6 year old child, everything hurts when I squat, after squats I am so pooped I can't do anything else. Clearly I suck at it, but I need some help. Here's a short vid I took:

https://youtu.be/W-qGdewSHsI

Right off the bat I can see I lean forward too much, but I am sure you guys will see many more problems. But the real question is: how do I fix them?

[Mark1T]

Hy Sy. I'm not an expert squat analyzer, but to me, it looks really good.

If I were to make a couple of suggestions, slow down the pace and that may help your leaning forward, arch your back as much as possible. Your range of motion is good, but you could slow down the pace just a little and go lower.

Nice work.

[ChristianMR]

Yes, you're leaning forward. The problem is easiest to see at about 0:06 - 0:07. At 0:07, your bar is way in front of your heels (even in front of your toes). My understanding is that this suggests relative quad weakness compared to your posterior chain (you also have long femurs, so that could be a factor). I have the same problem, and switched to front squats to correct the issue (more quad dominant and you can't lean very far forward with front squats before the bar drops).

Disclaimer: I suck at squats, so I'm by no means an expert. Candido says it better than me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PlK...ature=youtu.be.

[Bando]

Hopefully JTBNY will chime in as he's my go to guy for the mechanics of lifts.

When I see these videos I'm always reminded of Rippetoe in Starting strength saying the shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line, and your bar is not travelling in a straight line. When I unrack and think "straight line" my hips, knees and back usually come through for me.

[weiss1967]

Right off the bat I can see I lean forward too much, but I am sure you guys will see many more problems. But the real question is: how do I fix them?

yes you lean forward quite a bit. I am no PT, but for what it worth, I would go light and not lean forward. And then gradually built it from there. It is not easy to fix. I had the same problem when I first started training at my teenage years, and this is what I did. I actually learnt not to lean forward by squatting with body weight first. Hope this helps. Or maybe just do smith machine squats and leg press, essentially the same move. Oh, and the other thing that helped me was trying to look up when I squat or do deads. Chin up and keep it up, this helps not to lean forward.

[DuracellBunny]

Your lower back is weak. The degree of lean gets greater with each rep, as you can't hold your back position. There is nothing particularly wrong with your technique, that won't self correct, if you strengthen your lower back.

You would think that your back must be strong to straighten you out when you lean, but it is your glutes and hams doing the straightening. I don't know if there is any history of injury, or if there is a strength deficiency due to training history and exercise choice, but your back is the weak link in your posterior chain and will be the limiting factor until it strengthens up.

[sy2502]

Your lower back is weak. The degree of lean gets greater with each rep, as you can't hold your back position. There is nothing particularly wrong with your technique, that won't self correct, if you strengthen your lower back.

You would think that your back must be strong to straighten you out when you lean, but it is your glutes and hams doing the straightening. I don't know if there is any history of injury, or if there is a strength deficiency due to training history and exercise choice, but your back is the weak link in your posterior chain and will be the limiting factor until it strengthens up.

Yes my back is not in the best of shapes. I have had s****osis since I was very little, and that's been giving me problems all my life. I have to wear a back brace when I do yard work, or I will be hurting really quickly, so I wonder if you think wearing a lifting belt while squatting would help?

PS: what the flying phuk??? Why is it censoring a frigging spinal medical problem????

[itsagoodday]

What are you doing currently in terms of bracing your core and keeping your upper body tight? I have the feeling those areas could use some work, it looks like your upper body is caving on the way down in the later reps, which is putting you in a worse position to come back up. A belt would give you something to brace against, which can be quite helpful in maintaining tightness, but wouldn't do anything beyond that.

Also, with your leg proportions, you might benefit from a wider stance. But it might not pair well with your current bar positioning, so that's more of a thought for some other time.

[Cass40]

I think I have the same problem with my lower back. I do the same thing. I was also told to go down slower at the gym and that was the first thing I thought too. Because of my sciatica, I have started recently with lower weights. I also want to get my squat right.

Sy, it's the same reason broc**** is banned, the same letters. That's why I spell it skoliosis here nowadays haha. My husband has it too.

[Cass40]

What are you doing currently in terms of bracing your core and keeping your upper body tight? I have the feeling those areas could use some work, it looks like your upper body is caving on the way down in the later reps, which is putting you in a worse position to come back up. A belt would give you something to brace against, which can be quite helpful in maintaining tightness, but wouldn't do anything beyond that.

Also, with your leg proportions, you might benefit from a wider stance. But it might not pair well with your current bar positioning, so that's more of a thought for some other time.

Oh you reminded me of something I was going to ask...do you think it would be good for me to start using a belt since I have the lower back/sciatica issues?

[RK42]

While (re-)reading some squatting articles, I came across an interesting idea for a corrective exercise I hadn't seen before: http://yashathoughts.com/check-your-balance/. I have no experience using it, but I think you should try it, and report back if it works.

As others have pointed out, part of your problem looks to be general tightness. You collapse slightly in the bottom position. But it also looks to me like the bar is traveling forward already on the way down, getting you into an unbalanced position. Make sure that the weight stays centered over mid foot. Or at least as a mental cue, try to feel the weight on your heels, and it will probably end up over mid foot.

You will find a lot of suggested cues to fix squat mornings if you watch form videos. I had a tendency to get too much forward lean on heavier weights, and one cue that helped me to some degree was to try and pull the bar into my back, which can help keep the upper back tight. Slowing down the descent helped my balance as well. Really focusing on firing up the glutes in the bottom position helped a lot. And then pushing up the hips, as explained in one of the standard Rippetoe videos.

[DuracellBunny]

Yes my back is not in the best of shapes. I have had s****osis since I was very little, and that's been giving me problems all my life. I have to wear a back brace when I do yard work, or I will be hurting really quickly, so I wonder if you think wearing a lifting belt while squatting would help?

PS: what the flying phuk??? Why is it censoring a frigging spinal medical problem????

A belt will help, by giving you something to brace against, but it won't solve things.

Can you do good mornings? I'm wary of recommending things when there are medical conditions involved, but if you can do good mornings, I would do some in the 15-20 rep range.

If you set the hips and put a slight arch in the lower back (if you can), the movement becomes like a bicep curl or a pec fly, in how you feel the muscle lengthen and contract. When you get the position right, you will feel a slight tension in your back before you start the eccentric phase.

That feeling of tension, is what you want before you start to descend on the squat; so you use the good mornings to train the feeling of tightness. The problem is that the lower back has awful recovery, so any work you do around it, should be in a rep range that won't add much recovery to things.

If your back strengthens up, your squat will jump. Coming out of the hole, there is more than enough strength in your legs, but your back cannot currently hold the weight that your legs can do and it is pulling you in to a disadvantageous mechanical position with sub-maximal weights.

If you can find a decent sports physio, I would go and see one. Somebody who can actually examine your back, and has experience with it, can give you some specific ideas on how to help strengthen it.

[PiperBill]

I think you could do a lot better if you set up, take a deep breath and brace your core as hard as you can before each rep. Take your time. Pull the bar down like you are trying to bend it and keep your elbows tucked under as much as possible.

Maybe try a wider stance as well and conciously push your knees out. I find I can sit back more with a fairly wide stance but I squat low bar.

[ironwill2008]

Squat is the bane of my existence. I suck at it, I squat less weight than a 6 year old child, everything hurts when I squat, after squats I am so pooped I can't do anything else. Clearly I suck at it, but I need some help. Here's a short vid I took:

https://youtu.be/W-qGdewSHsI

Right off the bat I can see I lean forward too much, but I am sure you guys will see many more problems. But the real question is: how do I fix them?

Reduce the load to a point where you can keep the bar path directly over the center of the foot for the entire ROM. Right now, it's far in front of proper position.





As always, any medical limitation(s) you may have will take precedence over any advice I might offer.

[sy2502]

So summarizing so far:

- Slow down the tempo, make sure I am ready and braced for each rep.
- Go light and work on form before weight.
- Work on back strength.
- Use cues to keep the torso up (squatting with feel on small plates, tuck elbows in)

Anything else?

It kills me that I leg press idiotic amounts of weight and then I squat with little girlie weights, makes me fill like a moron, but I guess it's for a good cause in the long run

[Plateauplower]

So summarizing so far:

- Slow down the tempo, make sure I am ready and braced for each rep.
- Go light and work on form before weight.
- Work on back strength.
- Use cues to keep the torso up (squatting with feel on small plates, tuck elbows in)

Anything else?

It kills me that I leg press idiotic amounts of weight and then I squat with little girlie weights, makes me fill like a moron, but I guess it's for a good cause in the long run

Yep agree with the above just back off a little and work on form. Be at the point where you can do good reps without getting forward but are still challenging. Nice work though, 155 is pretty solid for your build. We just backed my wife down a little I think she was starting to have some similar form issues at 145. She's working 5x5 at 135 now and getting stronger. The back will strengthen over time. I have mild skilliosis too, doesn't really effect me, I had terrible ankle mobility initially but that resolved itself over time.

[drudixon]

The bar isn't traveling forward that much, it's a sht camera angle. She maintains anterior tilt throughout the movement, so I doubt it's low back weakness. Her ass goes up first because her quads aren't doing their part to keep her upright.

The body always shifts the load to the strongest body parts, so her back takes over. I bet her deadlift is twice as strong.

Sy, do front squats to get you more upright. They really do help and carryover to back squats.

[sy2502]

Nice work though, 155 is pretty solid for your build.

Would your wife mind too much if I gave you a virtual hug for that? Because I leg press close to 300lbs so my squat numbers makes me cry.

[Cass40]

Yep agree with the above just back off a little and work on form. Be at the point where you can do good reps without getting forward but are still challenging. Nice work though, 155 is pretty solid for your build. We just backed my wife down a little I think she was starting to have some similar form issues at 145. She's working 5x5 at 135 now and getting stronger. The back will strengthen over time. I have mild skilliosis too, doesn't really effect me, I had terrible ankle mobility initially but that resolved itself over time.

I was there too, my highest was 135 at five reps, and it forever to even get to that point with proper form.

I see women smaller than me squatting a lot more than me at the gym all the time but whatever..

[grubman]

Would your wife mind too much if I gave you a virtual hug for that? Because I leg press close to 300lbs so my squat numbers makes me cry.

Vertical or 45 degree?

[Rabbitjb]

The bar isn't traveling forward that much, it's a sht camera angle. She maintains anterior tilt throughout the movement, so I doubt it's low back weakness. Her ass goes up first because her quads aren't doing their part to keep her upright.

The body always shifts the load to the strongest body parts, so her back takes over. I bet her deadlift is twice as strong.

Sy, do front squats to get you more upright. They really do help and carryover to back squats.

This seems like good advice to me alongside the going light to correct form although we don't have those gappy plates so I have no idea how much you're lifting there or what percentage of 1RM

I've found that low box squats and focusing on driving upwards helped a lot in the pathway and power of my squat to be honest and I still throw them in now ..I'm 5'8 so I come off a 30cm block

[NorwichGrad]

Balance is key. Without balance, there is only imbalance.

The brain is also good at misinterpreting data that the eyes see.

The body is also very good at adopting to movements.



You're doing good morning squats. You keep goodmorninging your squats and you will end up in Snap City.

You have imbalance.


But here's the key to brain interpretation: the lower back is weak.

This is common misinterpretation. ^^

The weakness is in fact your quads.

You are relying on lower back and hammies because these are stronger compared to our quads.

Strengthen your quads to return to balance.

Front squats. Goblets. Plié squats. Step ups.

[NorwichGrad]

PS. I posted before I read all responses.

Dru is correct on FS.

[sy2502]

Vertical or 45 degree?

It starts at 45 degrees, then I am pretty sure it gets more and more vertical as I do reps.

At least it feels that way LOL

[grubman]

It starts at 45 degrees, then I am pretty sure it gets more and more vertical as I do reps.

At least it feels that way LOL

I don't want this to sound dickish in any way...but you should be more proud of your squat. A 300 pound leg press at 45 degrees means your really moving around 212 pounds. With a squat you have to balance AND move your own bodyweight in addition. Like PP said, those aren't bad numbers...and you look great.

[DuracellBunny]

Balance is key. Without balance, there is only imbalance.

The brain is also good at misinterpreting data that the eyes see.

The body is also very good at adopting to movements.



You're doing good morning squats. You keep goodmorninging your squats and you will end up in Snap City.

You have imbalance.


But here's the key to brain interpretation: the lower back is weak.

This is common misinterpretation. ^^

The weakness is in fact your quads.

You are relying on lower back and hammies because these are stronger compared to our quads.

Strengthen your quads to return to balance.

Front squats. Goblets. Plié squats. Step ups.

I'm going to disagree based on tempo. A squat morning tends to bounce out of the whole and move the hips up and back as fast as possible, to transfer the load to the posterior chain. That is from quad weakness.

Sy is coming out of the hole almost casually, there is no lack of strength there. The problem is holding her back position. Squat mornings due to quads lean earlier in the motion.

The rate at which the lean increases from rep to rep is wrong for quad weakness too. She has already admitted to problems with her back and that she does lots of leg pressing. Somebody who does lots of their leg work on leg presses doesn't suffer from quad weakness, they suffer from posterior chain weakness; in this case, the weak link in the posterior chain being the erectors.

[Rabbitjb]

I don't want this to sound dickish in any way...but you should be more proud of your squat. A 300 pound leg press at 45 degrees means your really moving around 212 pounds. With a squat you have to balance AND move your own bodyweight in addition. Like PP said, those aren't bad numbers...and you look great.

Is there an equation there for converting leg press to actual weight moved? Or do you just take off around 90lbs

[grubman]

Is there an equation there for converting leg press to actual weight moved? Or do you just take off around 90lbs

You take the sine of 45 which is.707 and multiply the weight by that...that's what I've read, I'm no mathematician.

[sy2502]

I don't want this to sound dickish in any way...but you should be more proud of your squat. A 300 pound leg press at 45 degrees means your really moving around 212 pounds. With a squat you have to balance AND move your own bodyweight in addition. Like PP said, those aren't bad numbers...and you look great.

Yes sir, I vaguely remember something like that in Physics class. But it does sound impressive when I say it to people who have no idea LOL.

[NorwichGrad]

I'm going to disagree based on tempo. A squat morning tends to bounce out of the whole and move the hips up and back as fast as possible, to transfer the load to the posterior chain. That is from quad weakness.

Sy is coming out of the hole almost casually, there is no lack of strength there. The problem is holding her back position. Squat mornings due to quads lean earlier in the motion.

The rate at which the lean increases from rep to rep is wrong for quad weakness too. She has already admitted to problems with her back and that she does lots of leg pressing. Somebody who does lots of their leg work on leg presses doesn't suffer from quad weakness, they suffer from posterior chain weakness; in this case, the weak link in the posterior chain being the erectors.

Yup. I just saw her post about lower back issues. And you're right about too much leg press.

Sy - There is no shame in wearing a belt. Try it next time.