Squats and deadlifts are obsolete

[Scartown]

Like I care? My knowledge > his physique.

If you knew anything about anatomical adaptation and how important that is when you start training, then maybe you could be throwing up heavy compounds and making real progress.

I'll take going from 6'4 165 pounds to 6'5 240 in past 6 years, going from db benching 20 pound's to a 305 max, etc. and be content with it everytime.

I get smarter every single day, I will train smarter every single day, and will keep making progress every single day.

Welcome to the marathon, bitch.

ded. New copy pasta

[Maxlol200]

fair enough, I should consider taking both out of my training routine

[jaries12]

I don't get the "it wrecks your back and hips" comments.... if you are doing them properly and have reasonable biomechanics, you should have no issue whatsoever if you train properly and progressively overload.

Loading the posterior spine with the hip hinge position is one of the most important movements you can and should do as a human. Kettlebell swings are also an amazing exercise for this purpose... and if you can't do a DL or a kettlebell swing with a good hip hinge form, then you absolutely have postural and imbalance issues.

[Deathguard]

Are you retarded bro? Just wondering. LOL at using the word "principles". Baseless *******

If you lift weight, you should get stronger - principle. This happens regardless of roids.

[DDSF1]

The day i'm using other men's physiques instead of mine in an argument that you are desperately trying to make is the day I buy a chair, rope, and head to the closet. Keep watching guzman and bradley martyn and all these other playboys thinking they are the smartest people on the planet and living your life through them. At night when you finally stop lurking the misc browsing for male's avi's, instead of going on pornhub for the 6th time in the past 12 hours, I want you to look up gym memberships. I don't care if it is planet fitness or waldo's wonky bars. I want you to go for 1 day and perform 1 workout for at least 30 minutes. Do this for 3 to 6 months and then make sure to hire somebody for lighting as you spend 5 hours trying to get as close as an avi as possible to whatever physique you'll never reach because you have the attitude and mindset of a kardashian.

Dude I can't stand listening to your jargon anymore. The fact that you talk a lot of **** that you can not back makes me believe that you do a lot of reading and not a lot of lifting. How Can you give advice to people without truly understanding what you are saying? The answer is you can't ..... You can not tell someone something without knowing if it works or not. You have no experience lifting. You hardly know anything. Everything you do know you read in a book or stole from someone else. You have no factual eveidence that it works. You just take advice from credible sources and post them as your own....As an aspiring personal trainer, who has actually spent time working in a gym, watching and criticizing and experimenting. Stop posting. You don't know what youre talking about. You know it too.

[nzgs]

I think Dorian Yates stopped with the squats. If I recall correctly, he felt some people benefited more from it than he did (something like).

I personally think adjusting form with a consideration of body type, will yield different gains on the legs - wider stance vs narrower stance, or bar heights, grip, sumo vs regular etc

I also think some people, like 'bodybuilders', want to avoid hard exercises.

IMO, if you've gotten to the point where your squatting 500 and deadlifting 600, you've probably earned the right to discontinue for /reasons (medical aside).

Squats just aren't the best exercise for the quads unless you're built very specifically for them like Tom Platz. They aren't obsolete, just not ideal for everyone same as deadlifts. The other problem with these whole body exercises is that there's no guarantee that the muscles you want to work will be the ones doing the work. They're good used immediately after pre-exhaust isolation exercises, that is how Dorian and Mentzer used them. But doing them like a powerlifter while expecting the results of a bodybuilder is beyond stupid.

[MrStealYoGrill]

if your goal is purely hypertrophy deadlifts can certainly have an alternative, but if someone likes deadlifts, then do some fukin deadlifts (safely).
Squat is a little different, if we include front squat in here I would say its rare to see someone with top legs without either of those exercises though totally possible. if you mean general population good, yeah you don't need either of those.

These are my legs and I literally never bother with squats and deadlifts. Im convinced theres a powerlifting conspiracy aimed at making the entire fitness community DYEL and injured by convincing everyone that the 3 lifts in their competitions are the best exercises on earth. I dont know what these folks get out of it, but they have effectively fooled the entire fitness community by convincing them that their sport is relevant and the 3 exercises with arbitrary rules are above all.

[DDSF1]

These are my legs and I literally never bother with squats and deadlifts. Im convinced theres a powerlifting conspiracy aimed at making the entire fitness community DYEL and injured by convincing everyone that the 3 lifts in their competitions are the best exercises on earth. I dont know what these folks get out of it, but they have effectively fooled the entire fitness community by convincing them that their sport is relevant and the 3 exercises with arbitrary rules are above all.

You have wrestler in your sig...and you don't do deads?

[Deathguard]

Squats just aren't the best exercise for the quads unless you're built very specifically for them like Tom Platz. They aren't obsolete, just not ideal for everyone same as deadlifts. The other problem with these whole body exercises is that there's no guarantee that the muscles you want to work will be the ones doing the work. They're good used immediately after pre-exhaust isolation exercises, that is how Dorian and Mentzer used them. But doing them like a powerlifter while expecting the results of a bodybuilder is beyond stupid.

I think certain body types just need to adjust - to take advantage of the muscles (leverage better). Dorian probably needed to reconfigure for the squat, but hey, who cares when you got that much mass anyway. The problem I see is that people are now forgoing heavy lifting in favor for high reps and kidding themselves on the rate of progress they think they see. This just doesn't produce the same stimulus required for maximum growth (mass), which is what a good heavy squat / bench press can accomplish. Machines can only do so much before free weights are the only sane alternative to get that sort of jolt. You don't have to always lift heavy, just like you shouldn't always reserve yourself to 'hypertrophy' bodybuilding routines.

[MrStealYoGrill]

You have wrestler in your sig...and you don't do deads?

Not a wrestler anymore bro, those times are long gone : ( may get into it in uni though
And no. As a wrestler the most important thing ive found was having good wrestling skills and conditioning. Everything else deemed to be irrelevant.
From my experience, a good wrestler with average strength will absolutely manhandle a bad wrestler with much more strength.
Anyway i dont wrestle now so i dont have to worry about any of that chit.

[Malnourishment]

These are my legs and I literally never bother with squats and deadlifts. Im convinced theres a powerlifting conspiracy aimed at making the entire fitness community DYEL and injured by convincing everyone that the 3 lifts in their competitions are the best exercises on earth. I dont know what these folks get out of it, but they have effectively fooled the entire fitness community by convincing them that their sport is relevant and the 3 exercises with arbitrary rules are above all.

Your legs are chyt compared to your upper body but I agree with your assessment. As much as I loved the euphoria following a huge deadlift single PR, deadlifts are also the reason why I have three ruptured discs in my back and had to take two years off lifting for them to heal. My back is permanently stiff, crunchy and fukked up because it was abused by deadlifts. I was never given adequate warning or education about them, like that you should be able to touch your toes and do mobility work regularly before you even attempt them.

Part of the problem originates from the culture of the powerlifting community. It is, on average, grossly ignorant about preserving the body, preserving mobility, and using the lifts to actually benefit athletic performance instead of hindering it. A lot of top deadlifters are self-proclaimed masochists who "embrace the pain," which is a retarded way to train that ultimately leads to physical ruin for everyday Joe's and powerlifters alike.

That being said, I still do light deadlift modifications for my current athletic training but FUKK deadlifting off the floor with the standard narrow stance unless you are exceptionally well-built for them.

[DDSF1]

Not a wrestler anymore bro, those times are long gone : ( may get into it in uni though
And no. As a wrestler the most important thing ive found was having good wrestling skills and conditioning. Everything else deemed to be irrelevant.
From my experience, a good wrestler with average strength will absolutely manhandle a bad wrestler with much more strength.
Anyway i dont wrestle now so i dont have to worry about any of that chit.

I didnt say deads are the most important thing as a wrestler or that a bad wrestler will beat a good wrestler because of deads but damn do you have any idea how much they help? Seriously brah...in all grappling deads help.

[Toker095]

pathetic, those two lifts will take care of 80% of building the body and makes building the 20% (chest,delts and arms) a breeze

[MrStealYoGrill]

I didnt say deads are the most important thing as a wrestler or that a bad wrestler will be a a good wrestler because of deads but damn do you have any idea how much they help? Seriously brah...

Are you a wrestler? How exactly have they helped you?
I was always able to pick up guys in my weight with ease(assuming i had good position and wasnt dead tired) so i dont see how they would have helped me much

[MrStealYoGrill]

pathetic, those two lifts will take care of 80% of building the body and makes building the 20% (chest,delts and arms) a breeze

This is the propaganda that popularized powerlifting and the ego competitions with it, everyone trying to beat each other see who can deadlift or squat more, leading to back snappening form and injuries.
How do deadlifts or squats add the most mass to your body? They will literally just make your ass and thighs bigger. Is that what you want? A big tight ass? If that's 80% of your body goals for you then by all means keep squatting and enjoy the benefits.

[DDSF1]

Are you a wrestler? How exactly have they helped you?
I was always able to pick up guys in my weight with ease(assuming i had good position and wasnt dead tired) so i dont see how they would have helped me much

I guess I had a different experience. They helped me manhandle guys that were good or slightly better then me. It was directly from deadlifts in my opinion. I really noticed a difference when I would grapple with no-gi bjj guys too. Literally tossing them around.

I always used double overhand grip (no straps ever) so maybe because I never went very heavy, compared to a powerlifter, I didn't see any injuries or detriment.


Edit- I don't know if this makes a difference either but I'm a heavyweight, 220+

[MrStealYoGrill]

I guess I had a different experience. They helped me manhandle guys that were good or slightly better then me. It was directly from deadlifts in my opinion. I really noticed a difference when I would grapple with no-gi bjj guys too. Literally tossing them around.

I always used double overhand grip so maybe because I never went very heavy, compared to a powerlifter, I didn't see any injuries or detriment.

Well I know many wrestlers deadlift but I never really saw it. I was very technical with my wrestling most of the time, because of my bjj background so I never felt like I need a lot of strength in terms of picking things up. Like I said i could pick up guys my weight very easily, so i didnt see the point in pushing it more when I could've just worked on other things.

[Deathguard]

This is the propaganda that popularized powerlifting and the ego competitions with it, everyone trying to beat each other see who can deadlift or squat more, leading to back snappening form and injuries.
How do deadlifts or squats add the most mass to your body? They will literally just make your ass and thighs bigger. Is that what you want? A big tight ass? If that's 80% of your body goals for you then by all means keep squatting and enjoy the benefits.

And how much do you weigh?

Look, if you're wanting a pretty physique I understand your position. But if your wanting to be a top heavy brute, basic barbell moves are hard to beat. Reserving yourself to DB excercises or machines have limitations that the barbell does not have.

[PaddleBunt]

Tbh if you can't sit in a proper 3rd world/slav squat ... just don't squat. You already ruined your mobility. But OP, cmon man, you don't know the first thing about sports biomechanics if you are denouncing squats.

See how toddlers squat? You should be able to squat like that with zero effort and sit in that position and be able to maintain a position of rest. If you can't do that, you have compromised your mobility via sitting/inactiveness/simulated femoral retro or anteversion. Maybe you lost ankle dorsiflexion.

Either way, squats done by people with proper mobility don't stress your body. At all.


Cliffs: OP. Stop being a lazy poosie

Except for the fact that toddlers and full grown adults have different hip joint positions and bone length. It's asanine to assume that just because a child does something that this is the ideal way for a full grown adult to move. Femur length and acetablum shape are big factors in a full grown adults ability to squat to depth with good biomechanics, especially under additional load.

And that doesn't even begin to touch on the different load tolerance of multiple joints in the biomechanics of a loaded squat. A load that is tolerable for your hips may very well be too much for your lumbar spine for example, one slip in form and say goodnight

[MrStealYoGrill]

And how much do you weigh?

Look, if you're wanting a pretty physique I understand your position. But if your wanting to be a top heavy brute, basic barbell moves are hard to beat. Reserving yourself to DB excercises or machines have limitations that the barbell does not have.

I never use dumbbells or barbells let alone machines. Also weigh 164 right now.
There are much better weighs of gaining upper body strength than benching(awful exercise, even worse than dl and squat) and rowing(pretty good exercise but still)

[Deathguard]

I never use dumbbells or barbells let alone machines. Also weigh 164 right now.
There are much better weighs of gaining upper body strength than benching(awful exercise, even worse than dl and squat) and rowing(pretty good exercise but still)

Ah yea, I think I remember you from another thread; you're a body weight exercise guy.

If you have no need for lifting serious weight, then good for you I guess. Just remember though, your t-shirt will always hide your precious gains.

:P

[MrStealYoGrill]

Ah yea, I think I remember you from another thread; you're a body weight exercise guy.

If you have no need for lifting serious weight, then good for you I guess. Just remember though, your t-shirt will always hide your precious gains.

:P

Im not pure bodyweight and I can lift pretty serious weight.
Bench is just an awful exercise, the scapula doesn't get to move at all, the ROM i lessened by the arch and most people just cheat their way up ny bouncing on their chest or lifting their ass off the bench.
A weighted dip is superior in every way in terms of strength. In terms of aesthetics a dumbbell press is superior because you get a much better stretch on your chest.
Once again the bench is only popular due to powerlifting propaganda.


Also I attached a pic of my barbell bench free pecs and shoulders above. You are free to judge how effective dips are

[Rayzor84]

I stopped deadlifting 2 months ago when it became clear that they'd never be a safe lift for me again.

I did it for several years, developed a pars fracture due to a congenital abnormality in my L6(I think) and it healed 90% but still flares up. Lowered weight from over 4 plates for reps down to 315 for a while, but it was too unpredictable even with Nazi form (some days even 225 with super super strict aggravated the condition). Now I do more weighted hypers and still do heavy rdl with good form. Squats don't bother it unless I recently deadlifted so those are mostly fine.

Granted again this all happened because of a congenital malformation but meh

Inb4 miscers claim they are half horse and have an accessory ligament of the femoral head which stops leg abduction

[guest89]

I build my legs primarily through squats and deadlifts. At some point I decided to use other lifts + machines. Developed knee issues / some form of tendinitis behind my knee's over time from all the volume.




Currently only do one exercise for legs. The barbell back squat. (8-12 rep ranges). Original goal was just maintain leg size and alleviate the knee issues. Not only are the knees feeling better. But my legs are actually progressing despite only using one exercise to hit them and lower over-all volume. There are a ton of techniques that can be used so that you don't need to use a crazy/unsafe amount of weight. Super sets, drop sets, pyramids, shorter rest periods, etc.



Obviously the squat isn't the end all be all of leg exercises. You can build a great set of legs without them. But on the flip side, if you are only going to use one exercise the barbell squat or front squat are your best options. I choose to back squat because my quads are my strong point already so I don't need a larger emphasis on them. I don't know of any other exercises that are as efficient or effective at targeting the legs.




People get injured using a freaking leg press. I developed knee issues from leg extensions/reverse curls. The bottom line is you can get injured doing anything. The idea the squats and deadlifts are somehow dangerous came about because people load more weight then they can manage and perform the lift with improper form. If you try to 1 rep max a bicep curl you can get injured. Maybe nobody should work arms.

[harshkhanna28]

Hi..I need a small help. My regular workout schedule is
Monday:legs
Tuesday:chest
Wednesday:back
Thursday:shoulders
Friday:ABS
Saturday:arms
The problem is that my arms are not growing that well because on my rest day.im taking in Lots of wine.which is obviously killing my protein synthesis.and it's directly affecting my arms recovery.Also my diet on the rest day isn't that great.so I was wondering if I could follow this schedule for a good recovery my arms
Monday:arms
Tuesday:legs
Wednesday:chest
Thursday:back
Friday:shoulders
Saturdays:ABS
This might allow me to have a good recovery time for my arms .can you help me with this please

[Deathguard]

Im not pure bodyweight and I can lift pretty serious weight.
Bench is just an awful exercise, the scapula doesn't get to move at all, the ROM i lessened by the arch and most people just cheat their way up ny bouncing on their chest or lifting their ass off the bench.
A weighted dip is superior in every way in terms of strength. In terms of aesthetics a dumbbell press is superior because you get a much better stretch on your chest.
Once again the bench is only popular due to powerlifting propaganda.


Also I attached a pic of my barbell bench free pecs and shoulders above. You are free to judge how effective dips are

I don't know what pic you speak of - its not viewable/accessible apparently.

And nah dude. I use to do nothing but dumbell presses back in the day. Got some 'good gainz' in my early days. The biggest problem is when you start getting into 120+ pound dumbells for chest. Getting those into position can be nasty, if not counter productive to that lift. Eventually, the conventional bench press will need to be graduated to - at least for this reason. Granted chest development on dumbells is better, but anterior delt development on the press is better. You could do both...

Also, No offense, but you seem like you have something to prove against powerlifting. Seems pretty audacious considering each person lifts for their own reasons or purpose. Though if you're wanting to be a brute, bodyweight exercises are simply not enough to get you in that status.

I personally care more about numbers at the moment than how pretty I look. If I were single, it would probably be the other way around. Subconsciously, you think you might just be justifying this? Some people have fat phobia I imagine.

[sumusikoo]

So many anti deadlift threads lately, considering stopping with them especially since I can't keep my lower back 100% straight despite following all the fuking tutorials & tips on earth srs.

What would be a decent alternative? Thinking about romanian DLs as they're considerable lighter & not as hard to keep a decent form on.

I also can't squat that well either, feels weird as fuk to go ATG srs but I'm gonna keep doing them as my legs have exploded srs

[butwhowasgains]

These are my legs and I literally never bother with squats and deadlifts. Im convinced theres a powerlifting conspiracy aimed at making the entire fitness community DYEL and injured by convincing everyone that the 3 lifts in their competitions are the best exercises on earth. I dont know what these folks get out of it, but they have effectively fooled the entire fitness community by convincing them that their sport is relevant and the 3 exercises with arbitrary rules are above all.

Leaning up quick brah! gjdm

[BuddyBoyo]

OP the kinda fuker that calls walking on a treadmill for 15 mins a day 'cardio'
get rekt u unathletic kunt

[GabrielNovar]

this only squat 135 crew light and easy just to get dat boooty

the rest tears your ligaments apart