AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[Valeri0706]

Its pretty simple to come up with a plan:
push something forward
push something above your head
pull something towards you with palms down
pull something from at least 45 degrees different than the other pull, and use a palms up grip

Thats all you need. The SLDL counts as one of your pulls for arms, so you will need to replace it with an arms only something.

And no i dont want to see you 1.5 hours in the gym, i was just explaining how an "upper workout for intermediates works". Intermediates are not going to spend 3 hours a session on full body, so they split it into upper/lower or push/pull.

I see, so can I come up with something like this for the next 1 1/2 months(chest/arms only):

1.Bench Press
2. OHP
3. Bent over row or row machine
4. Barbell curls

or the same plan, but with dumbells?

If yes, do I still follow the All pro structure and continue the way I was thinking - 2nd cycle and increase in weight?

Please tell me this can work!

[nightanole]

I see, so can I come up with something like this for the next 1 1/2 months(chest/arms only):

1.Bench Press
2. OHP
3. Bent over row or row machine
4. Barbell curls

or the same plan, but with dumbells?

If yes, do I still follow the All pro structure and continue the way I was thinking - 2nd cycle and increase in weight?

Please tell me this can work!

That all looks good and you are correct. You still need to pick some kind of palms up pull to complete the workout. You could use any cable machine if you want. Or you could do an inverted row if you have a way of getting a fixed bar at the right height.

[Valeri0706]

Ok, can I add a lat pull down or a face pull, then? Or perhaps a seated row machine pull?

And what happens if I don't do a palms up pull exercise? There is usually only 1 cable pull machine and most of the time it's taken (small gym but mostly full).

[nightanole]

Ok, can I add a lat pull down or a face pull, then? Or perhaps a seated row machine pull?

And what happens if I don't do a palms up pull exercise? There is usually only 1 cable pull machine and most of the time it's taken (small gym but mostly full).

A lat pulldown will work. A face pull is too light, that is prehab for the bench press.

The point is you have 2 pushes (OHP/bench_) but only have 1 pull (row). A balanced program needs to be at least 50/50, and most good programs will have you pulling more than pushing.

[Valeri0706]

A lat pulldown will work. A face pull is too light, that is prehab for the bench press.

The point is you have 2 pushes (OHP/bench_) but only have 1 pull (row). A balanced program needs to be at least 50/50, and most good programs will have you pulling more than pushing.

Thanks for clarification. So do I just bring a bench to the cable machine for the lat pulldown? And what happens if I don't do any pull ups, but only the ones I've mentioned?

[nightanole]

Thanks for clarification. So do I just bring a bench to the cable machine for the lat pulldown? And what happens if I don't do any pull ups, but only the ones I've mentioned?

Again, 2 pulls and 2 pushes. You dont have to do any pullups. Hell you might get away with just doing Bench, then row, then OHP, then row again, then curl. The point is you need as much pulling volume as you have pushing volume. Ive never heard of a universal cable machine without an attached bench, but yea bring a bench.

[Valeri0706]

Again, 2 pulls and 2 pushes. You dont have to do any pullups. Hell you might get away with just doing Bench, then row, then OHP, then row again, then curl. The point is you need as much pulling volume as you have pushing volume. Ive never heard of a universal cable machine without an attached bench, but yea bring a bench.

By row do you mean bent over row or...? What is the row involving the machine called?

And what happens if I skip those rows?

[nightanole]

By row do you mean bent over row or...? What is the row involving the machine called?

And what happens if I skip those rows?

the normal allpro bent over row.

If all you do is OHP,bench, and curl, You will get a back and shoulder weakness. In extreme cases you will get rolled shoulders and even have the pecs pull the humerus joint forward in the shoulder socket, when in a relaxed state. AKA all the joints will start gravitating towards the strongest muscles.

[Valeri0706]

the normal allpro bent over row.

If all you do is OHP,bench, and curl, You will get a back and shoulder weakness. In extreme cases you will get rolled shoulders and even have the pecs pull the humerus joint forward in the shoulder socket, when in a relaxed state. AKA all the joints will start gravitating towards the strongest muscles.

Oh, thanks for the clarification. So it's all good. I don't need any machines, then. I basically continue with the program, minus the Squat (which leaves it all upper body exercises).

On Friday, I will be testing a new weight and based on my predictions, my bench will jump from 25 to 35 kg, OHP from 20 to 25 or 22.5 and my curls from 20 to either 25 or 30. Bent over row will also jump from 20 to at least 30 kg as I felt it way too light 1st cycle.

Is that ok until my gym membership finishes?

[nightanole]

Oh, thanks for the clarification. So it's all good. I don't need any machines, then. I basically continue with the program, minus the Squat (which leaves it all upper body exercises).

On Friday, I will be testing a new weight and based on my predictions, my bench will jump from 25 to 35 kg, OHP from 20 to 25 or 22.5 and my curls from 20 to either 25 or 30. Bent over row will also jump from 20 to at least 30 kg as I felt it way too light 1st cycle.

Is that ok until my gym membership finishes?

Yes. If you want alittle core work combine with some trap/forearm work, you could also do some farmer walks/carries if you get bored. Just pick some heavy dumb bells and try to walk up to 60 seconds with them before you have to put them down, distance doesnt really matter.

[Valeri0706]

Yes. If you want alittle core work combine with some trap/forearm work, you could also do some farmer walks/carries if you get bored. Just pick some heavy dumb bells and try to walk up to 60 seconds with them before you have to put them down, distance doesnt really matter.

Thank you! Unfortunately, I can't do that as the gym is small and I can't really go anywhere with them

Other than that, would you recommend any additional bicep work? Curls is my most favorite exercise and I really want to tone them! Is the standard barbell curl enough?

[nightanole]

Thank you! Unfortunately, I can't do that as the gym is small and I can't really go anywhere with them

Other than that, would you recommend any additional bicep work? Curls is my most favorite exercise and I really want to tone them! Is the standard barbell curl enough?

The best bicep movement i have found is the incline supination curl with dumb bells.

[Valeri0706]

The best bicep movement i have found is the incline supination curl with dumb bells.

Thanks! The barbell bicep curl however should tone them at least a bit, right? I mean, it does the job?

[nightanole]

Thanks! The barbell bicep curl however should tone them at least a bit, right? I mean, it does the job?

Yes, the bar bell will allow you to use the most weight, and normally that means promotes the most growth. You couldnt lift the same weight using the supenation curl.

[blackfieldgates]

The best bicep movement i have found is the incline supination curl with dumb bells.

In lieu of a incline bench (or any sort of bench at all) could this in theory be done on a Swiss exercise ball or something of that nature?

Also I saw you mention traps above- what actually works the traps on this program? Could one of the extra exercises be a isolation for traps and if so what would a good one be?

[xempik]

Hi Nightanole,

What do you think about my progress?

Format: starting weights // current weights (reps)
Currently did 1 cycle heavy/heavy and now cycle 2, finished week 4, only 1x heavy per week Before starting allpro I worked out 2 months with the same or similar exercises.
Im in slight caloric surplus. I am 178 cm, ~83 kg weight, prolly 18-20% BF.

Db squat: 16 kg per arm --> 18 kg (11 / 11 / 11)
Db bench: 16 kg per arm --> 18 kg (11 / 11 / 7) although in week 3 i did 10/10/10
Cable BOR: 40 kg --> 45 kg (11 / 11 / 9) but last week did 10/10/10
Standing DB OHP: 10 kg per arm --> 10 kg ( 11 / 9 ) last week did 10/10
Machine leg curl: 20 kg --> 20 kg ( 11 / 11)
Assisted machine pull up: -25kg --> -20kg ( 11 / 7) last week did 10/10
Calf raise with db in hands: 20kg in each arm --> 22 kg in each arm (16/14) last time did 15/15

thanks!

[nightanole]

In lieu of a incline bench (or any sort of bench at all) could this in theory be done on a Swiss exercise ball or something of that nature?

Also I saw you mention traps above- what actually works the traps on this program? Could one of the extra exercises be a isolation for traps and if so what would a good one be?

Elbows directly under the shoulder joint, in line with gravity, the elbow is stationary and behind the hips. How you rig that up is up to you.

traps are worked passively in just about every exercise. They grow best by just being a stabilizer with a load on them.

If you want more traps/core/forearms, that would be rack pulls around the knee, and farmer walks/carries. 99% of people dont need shrugs. If you want big traps, you just need to pick up very heavy things and just hold them, you can use straps if your forearms give out.

[nightanole]

Hi Nightanole,

What do you think about my progress?

Format: starting weights // current weights (reps)
Currently did 1 cycle heavy/heavy and now cycle 2, finished week 4, only 1x heavy per week Before starting allpro I worked out 2 months with the same or similar exercises.
Im in slight caloric surplus. I am 178 cm, ~83 kg weight, prolly 18-20% BF.

Db squat: 16 kg per arm --> 18 kg (11 / 11 / 11)
Db bench: 16 kg per arm --> 18 kg (11 / 11 / 7) although in week 3 i did 10/10/10
Cable BOR: 40 kg --> 45 kg (11 / 11 / 9) but last week did 10/10/10
Standing DB OHP: 10 kg per arm --> 10 kg ( 11 / 9 ) last week did 10/10
Machine leg curl: 20 kg --> 20 kg ( 11 / 11)
Assisted machine pull up: -25kg --> -20kg ( 11 / 7) last week did 10/10
Calf raise with db in hands: 20kg in each arm --> 22 kg in each arm (16/14) last time did 15/15

thanks!

Other than a very light squat, everything looks good. A few ideas; DB OHP should be the seated Arnold press, assisted pullup should be assisted chinup. I also dont see the SLDL listed, i assume you tried to replace it with a leg curl.

[Valeri0706]

Yes, the bar bell will allow you to use the most weight, and normally that means promotes the most growth. You couldnt lift the same weight using the supenation curl.

Thank you. So based on your recommendation, my remaining next month and a half at the gym will be:
1. Bench press 2x8
2. Bent over row 2x8
3. OHP 2x8
4.Barbell curl 2x8

How does that sound, with a warm up of the bar with 5-6 reps of its weight free from weights for the first 3 and the reps increasing by 1 with each week?

[nightanole]

Thank you. So based on your recommendation, my remaining next month and a half at the gym will be:
1. Bench press 2x8
2. Bent over row 2x8
3. OHP 2x8
4.Barbell curl 2x8

How does that sound, with a warm up of the bar with 5-6 reps of its weight free from weights for the first 3 and the reps increasing by 1 with each week?

1. Bench press 2x8
2. Bent over row 2x8
3. OHP 2x8
4.Barbell curl 2x8
5. Bent over row 2x8

And your warmup routine looks good.

[xempik]

Other than a very light squat, everything looks good. A few ideas; DB OHP should be the seated Arnold press, assisted pullup should be assisted chinup. I also dont see the SLDL listed, i assume you tried to replace it with a leg curl.

Thanks!

- the light squat is because my back is weak, I want to go slow with my back. Also, I really want a nice upper body, I am doing the lower body just so I am more less proportional. Plus squats kill me, too much effort I feel like throwing up sometimes after the squat.
- Assisted chinup - sorry thats what I do, working the biceps mainly. Im doing it with the palms facing toward me, with narrow grip.
- I don't do SLDL because again as squat above: back and don't care for huge legs.
- My question, why do u suggest seated arnold press, won't standing build more core for me?

[nightanole]

Thanks!

- the light squat is because my back is weak, I want to go slow with my back. Also, I really want a nice upper body, I am doing the lower body just so I am more less proportional. Plus squats kill me, too much effort I feel like throwing up sometimes after the squat.
- Assisted chinup - sorry thats what I do, working the biceps mainly. Im doing it with the palms facing toward me, with narrow grip.
- I don't do SLDL because again as squat above: back and don't care for huge legs.
- My question, why do u suggest seated arnold press, won't standing build more core for me?

If your dumb bells are only 1" thick, you can do them standing. However with 4-5"+ thick db's, the weight is pretty far infront of you, this creates a moment arm, and you cant use as much weight, and have to lean back considerably. Doing it seated (even with a seat back to rest the back against) will make it a more shoulder/arm isolation exercise.

If you want more core work etc, just like the other guy, do farmer walks/carries. This will build the forearms,traps,core, and wont fatigue the back or legs, since you are upright and not bending the knees much.

A final good core work is hanging leg raises with a bent knees.

[xempik]

If your dumb bells are only 1" thick, you can do them standing. However with 4-5"+ thick db's, the weight is pretty far infront of you, this creates a moment arm, and you cant use as much weight, and have to lean back considerably. Doing it seated (even with a seat back to rest the back against) will make it a more shoulder/arm isolation exercise.

If you want more core work etc, just like the other guy, do farmer walks/carries. This will build the forearms,traps,core, and wont fatigue the back or legs, since you are upright and not bending the knees much.

A final good core work is hanging leg raises with a bent knees.

Thanks!

-OHP. I am doing it like this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjoUYGXcXoQ but I think I am going a bit lower than this guy in the video
The DB are thick, and I don't seem to have a problem with leaning forward or back, i make sure the dbs move directly vertically up. Is that ok?

- Should I add core work? I Just thought standing OHP will be better standing than sitting considering I am already getting in some of that shoulder and arm muscle because I am doing db squats and db calf raises, so I need to hold the dbs in my hands...

[nightanole]

Thanks!

-OHP. I am doing it like this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjoUYGXcXoQ but I think I am going a bit lower than this guy in the video
The DB are thick, and I don't seem to have a problem with leaning forward or back, i make sure the dbs move directly vertically up. Is that ok?

- Should I add core work? I Just thought standing OHP will be better standing than sitting considering I am already getting in some of that shoulder and arm muscle because I am doing db squats and db calf raises, so I need to hold the dbs in my hands...

Yea thats what i thought you were doing. That is not a DP OHP, that is a shoulder press. The guy is not getting "the bar" even close to chest level, and with DB at the sides you are not getting much tricep/chest work.

We do the bar bell OHP standing, because it allows us to use a bit of body language to get the weight going, which allows us to use more weight, which increases overload when lowering the weight.

With the arnold press we cant use that body language, so we do it sitting so we can brace better.

Core work is going to be about the same for either exercise, since we are keeping the weight centered over mid foot. Your core can handle 400lbs or more right now standing straight, so that 50-100lbs you are lifting over head isnt taxing it much.

Anyway the requirement for the "move something heavy above your head movement" has a requirement that the "bar" needs to hit the chest each rep, have a shrug lock out, and keep the elbows directly under the wrists at the start of the movement. You can pick your variant based on that.

[KINE18]

i don;t know if this was said already but if i did this workout could i replace barbell curls with pull ups or is that to taxing on my back?

also can i do regular dead lifts with an emphasized(good morning almost) descent instead of stiff leg deadlifts?

[nightanole]

i don;t know if this was said already but if i did this workout could i replace barbell curls with pull ups or is that to taxing on my back?

also can i do regular dead lifts with an emphasized(good morning almost) descent instead of stiff leg deadlifts?

The replacement for the curl is either the upright row, or the chinup(palms facing you).

The SLDL on this program is not a power builder, its programmed to fully stretch the hamstrings and reenforce the back, along with some grip work. You should not be moving hundreds of pounds with it. Instead you should be focusing on using it to extend your range of motion to the point you can get the bar to your ankles with a straight back.

[ActionLogic]

Q: How many of the exercises require warm up sets? A: Only the first 3 (Squats, Bench Press, Bent Over Rows) require the 2 warm up sets. Perform only the 2 work sets for the remaining 4 exercises (OHP, SLDL, Curls, Calf Raises

First question: I was doing warm ups for all exercises the past two weeks, and I just found out the warm ups are just for the first 3 exercises. Why is not recommend to do the warm ups for the last 4 exercises (OHP, SLDL, Curls, Calf Raises)?

Second question: when transitioning from Bench Press to Rows/Inverted Rows, or Bench Press to OHP, what is the general rest time when transitioning between those muscle group exercises, or any muscle group exercise for that matter? I understand the rest time between sets when doing one specific exercise like Bench Press is 60-90 seconds, but when you are done with that exercise and move on to the next one, how long do you wait until you start the new exercise? I found that I am really fatigued/taxed when transitioning from Bench to Rows, or Bench to OHP with only 90 seconds of rest between those two exercises.

[davidbzr]

Hello, man. I failed on Monday, which was my test day 12 rep. I failed almost all of my exercises. This was my fault since I started way too heavy, I wanted to be as close to my SS records as possible which I now realize is ridiculous. Today is my medium day and I'm not sure how to continue, I want to go to the gym. What should I do?

Squats passed 50k
Bench Presses failed 45k
Bent-Over Rows passed 40k
Overhead Barbell Presses passed 15k
Stiff-Legged Deadlifts failed 45k
Barbell Curls failed 20k
Calf Raises passed 8 bars in the machine (40k?)

I'm thinking I don't want to increase weight in any exercise except for the calf raise and actually decrease weight for the curl and the SLDL. Would you recommend that?

[nightanole]

First question: I was doing warm ups for all exercises the past two weeks, and I just found out the warm ups are just for the first 3 exercises. Why is not recommend to do the warm ups for the last 4 exercises (OHP, SLDL, Curls, Calf Raises)?

Second question: when transitioning from Bench Press to Rows/Inverted Rows, or Bench Press to OHP, what is the general rest time when transitioning between those muscle group exercises, or any muscle group exercise for that matter? I understand the rest time between sets when doing one specific exercise like Bench Press is 60-90 seconds, but when you are done with that exercise and move on to the next one, how long do you wait until you start the new exercise? I found that I am really fatigued/taxed when transitioning from Bench to Rows, or Bench to OHP with only 90 seconds of rest between those two exercises.

1) rev 1.0 had warmups for all exercises. This caused too many stalls for the first set of guinea pigs due to too much volume, so the program was rearranged so that the first 3 lifts warm you up for the last 3 lifts, and then we threw in curls for the girlz.
2) There is zero rest time between exercises since we are not hitting the same muscle back to back, if you follow the original exercise order. Feel free to rest/work in if you want, it just extends the time in the gym. This is a hypertrophy routine, so its get in and get out and get the most growth, in the shortest amount of time in the gym. As intended this is a 30-45min program. Rest time of 90 seconds is the max, some drop it to 30 seconds or less on light days.

[nightanole]

Hello, man. I failed on Monday, which was my test day 12 rep. I failed almost all of my exercises. This was my fault since I started way too heavy, I wanted to be as close to my SS records as possible which I now realize is ridiculous. Today is my medium day and I'm not sure how to continue, I want to go to the gym. What should I do?

Squats passed 50k
Bench Presses failed 45k
Bent-Over Rows passed 40k
Overhead Barbell Presses passed 15k
Stiff-Legged Deadlifts failed 45k
Barbell Curls failed 20k
Calf Raises passed 8 bars in the machine (40k?)

I'm thinking I don't want to increase weight in any exercise except for the calf raise and actually decrease weight for the curl and the SLDL. Would you recommend that?

How about you take 72 hours or more rest after your failed heavy day, and do a single set 10 rep session using the weights you think you can handle. If you get in 10 reps, use that for next cycle. Each failed rep i would knock off 2.5% or the next weight change down, which ever is greater. So if you get 9 reps of 100lbs, odd are the next weight change down is 95lbs.