**The Official Engineers/Engineering Thread V2**

[TygaTyga]

Boyos did i goof picking chemical engineering? i never really hear about them at all.

[TXDStone]

Boyos did i goof picking chemical engineering? i never really hear about them at all.

You can do anything as a ChemE.

[TygaTyga]

You can do anything as a ChemE.

yeah but that is the same with any engineering degree though right? I just never really see people doing chem e on the misc are they not in as much demand as other types of engineers?

[axiom15]

Been bored with this down time I have at work, bought a practice exam for the FE going to start studying for it again now that I'm feeling kind of motivated. Hopefully I can take it in 2-3 months then move up from my current position to a petroleum/field engineer brah.

[SouthDakotaBrah]

yeah but that is the same with any engineering degree though right? I just never really see people doing chem e on the misc are they not in as much demand as other types of engineers?

My experience feels like all engineering degrees are pretty similar in the real world; you probably won't use much of the specific knowledge from your degree in your every day job. Maybe it's just the field I'm in, though. We hire engineers from all disciplines and basically learn the material on the job.

[Brocq17]

Boyos did i goof picking chemical engineering? i never really hear about them at all.

Graduated with a 2.7 GPA as a ChemE last May.

Currently living in Florida as a Process Engineer for a Fortune 500 company making 70k + stock options + benefits + bonuses/incentives.

Can't go wrong with ChemE. Make sure you do extracurriculars and network.

[cncman]

Is this thread for engineers or engineering students?

anyway, been an engineer for 3.5 years now. Took my PE exam yesterday, hope I passed!

Mirin, I might make that leap in design at some point. It requires 8 years since I graduated with a Physics degree and did the required engineering work as my minor. I don't even think me finishing the Masters in cpe helps, haven't checked though.

[Bobs of FL]

Aerospace Engineer here. Member of RAeS, graduated 4 years, and working for an aircraft design company.

Just transferred to UCF with my AA. Aerospace student here. Any advice? Biggest regret(s)? What's the most important thing you took with you from school?

[Ownster8932]

Just transferred to UCF with my AA. Aerospace student here. Any advice? Biggest regret(s)? What's the most important thing you took with you from school?

Not an aerospace, but a graduated EE working in the field.

1) Take your studies seriously/Maximize on the opportunity. Your mileage may vary on this as not everybody feels/will feel the same as I do/did upon graduating. I had zero issue finding a really good job out of college, I gained no hardships from the way I went about school, etc. So I don't say this as somebody bitter about me screwing up or anything. I say this because I took 6 years to finish my undergrad; no, I don't regret that it took that long, but I do wish that I had maximized on the opportunity throughout (not a regret, because I'm not really that type of person, just something I would do differently if I had to do it over). I went into college as an EE and never changed my major, so it's not like I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do. The first 3-4 years I was taking 4-5 classes a semester, maybe 1-2 of them was actually furthering my degree, the rest were just sounds kinda interesting classes (I was a make 1-2 A's, 1-2 B's, and/or 1-2 C's per semester student; not great, not terrible), and I wasn't in a rush. The last 2-3 years I had gotten an internship, finally started my real EE classes, started taking 6-7 classes (to try and start making up ground from my previous years of being lazy- not in a rush, but just changed my perspective of ok, it's time to get **** done). I started really enjoying my classes and I was getting straight A's. Time management went up, interest, work ethic, etc. I also took about 1/3rd of mechanical engineering. So this is where the if I had done things a little differently comes in. Since by the time I finished my EE degree, I had already been in school 6 years, and I ended up getting a good job offer doing what I wanted (in a different state), I never got to also finish the ME degree (again, not a huge deal, but in retrospect, if I had valued/tried harder earlier on, this might be something I could have completed within the same time frame of 6 years). The time you get in school is pretty valuable, so don't take it for granted. Take advantage of it as this is a time where you really get to indulge your intellectual interests and it's ok (while also building a foundation for you to use going forward). The fact that you are 27 will probably help this (and the fact that you were in the military, probably) as you have already grown, developed a work ethic, etc. But I say this in general for others and it may still help you to actually read it/internalize it (even if it seems obvious in retrospect).

2) How much you use your classes will vary. Kinda piggy backing off the first point, there are many different types of engineering roles within the engineering field. Depending on the role you select, you will have to use your school classes to varying degrees. For instance, somebody in R&D/Design is going to have to use much more of the theoretical/technical foundation of their schooling in applying it practically than say a sales engineer. However, what is undeniable is that the less you truly learn from your schooling, the more you are limiting yourself in your ability to succeed/excel at more technical positions. This is sort of a controversial topic as many people say that school doesn't matter, just get your degree, DGAF, learn everything on the job, blah blah blah. You may be able to fool some people into getting a technical job (IME, this is not something I would bank on), but once you start the job, it will be obvious whether or not you are a fraud. No, as a fresh graduate you are not expected to know everything (or really much of anything as it pertains to a particular industry), but I cannot tell you how much having a strong technical foundation has helped me. As you further into your career, you will be building upon concepts that you learned throughout school (not all of them, but a lot of them). The better foundation you build throughout school, the better position you will put yourself in for job opportunities, and the better position you will put yourself in to excel at your job and continue learning. I know personally, I can tell where I need to draw from something that I kinda mailed it in on vs something that I took the time to really learn the material. Similarly, another argument people who disagree me will use is "computers do everything for you now." A model/simulation is only as accurate as the information you input into said model. Yeah, you may not be able to practically (or at all) hand calculate something, but with a strong technical foundation, you can confidently model/simulate something and know whether the results you get are realistic/what they should be.

3) Try to get an internship. This should go without saying, but an internship seems to be a pretty big deal (along with having a 3.0 or higher upon graduating) for prospective employers. Try to get one relevant to your desired industry/job, but just about any internship is better than no internship, obviously. If you can't get an internship, try to do research with a professor or join a club to get some more technical/practical experience with/on projects.


There are probably other things that are escaping me at the moment, but those are pretty important, IMO. If you have more specific questions, feel free to ask.

[manjay]

Views from an Aus E eng that has done some work overseas.. every single job I've worked (6 years since grad) have been off the back of work contacts or former people I worked with. Even my first job as a graduate came out of careers day at uni, where myself and friends had a really down to earth, friendly chat with a recruiter (from a top US EPCM contractor). I graduated with what is the equivalent of a ~2.5 in US standards, what got me across the line was the personality factor.

Out in the real world I learnt fast that 90% of what I studied at uni just isn't needed in the real world, obviously keep your grades up as high as you can but there are other things to look for in graduates.

[TygaTyga]

Graduated with a 2.7 GPA as a ChemE last May.

Currently living in Florida as a Process Engineer for a Fortune 500 company making 70k + stock options + benefits + bonuses/incentives.

Can't go wrong with ChemE. Make sure you do extracurriculars and network.

Thanks dude, sounds like you got a sweet deal going, does the average chem engineer make that in america?
I swear when i see ameribrahs talk about the pay they get i feel like the uk short changes a lot of degrees.



anyone know exactly what is Financial Engineering is like a post grad subject after doing some form of maths based degree?

[SouthDakotaBrah]

Thanks dude, sounds like you got a sweet deal going, does the average chem engineer make that in america?
I swear when i see ameribrahs talk about the pay they get i feel like the uk short changes a lot of degrees.



anyone know exactly what is Financial Engineering is like a post grad subject after doing some form of maths based degree?

My understanding is that financial engineering is a sub-discipline of industrial engineering. It is basically the application of mathematics and modeling techniques to solve issues related to finance. Very software based, and very similar to industrial engineering. I don't know if we have anybody here who has actually studied financial engineering - I had looked into it for a bit and decided it wasn't worth it for me. MBA seemed to be more up my alley given my background and current employment.

I think if I were going to do financial engineering, two great choices would be Columbia and Cornell. Both have MSFE programs in the heart of NYC and are heavily recruited by hedge funds, investment banks, and other financial institutions.

http://ieor.columbia.edu/fe-internsh...-job-placement
http://www.orie.cornell.edu/academics/master/cfem/

[Jig2]

Finally finished with BEng in EE with a job lined up for the coming graduate intake. It's been a mad ride. Next step - chartership!

[dd45778]

Brags I'm worried.

Been working as a transportation engineer for a year now after I graduated and I received a letter that my states department of transportation might end funds at the beginning of July for all design projects and construction. That means I might lose my ducking job.

One thing they never tell you in school about civil engineering is that your client is the village/city/government. So if they are fukced, you are as well.

Looking to transfer out of this field. Pay is twindled down because you can only get paid by a certain amount (required by law) because the client is the government and the government wanted to write a law so we don't get over paid. No wonder civil is one of the most underpaid engineering fields. I need help. I studied for 4 years and ended up graduating with a 3.9 GPA and worked my ****ing ass off thinking it would be worth it and I'd be designing cool stuff and get paid well (or eventually) but in reality my salary growth within the next decade or two is probably maybe just barely going to break 80k. I need to get into a new field. Any suggestions?

Thinking about possibly becoming an actuary since I don't need to go back to school just take 7 exams and take online courses.

Been reviewing the materials for becoming an actuary and it doesn't seem difficult since I took courses already similar to the exams (stats, linear algebra, financial engineering 2 different courses)


I need some advice. I'm 23 and I want to get out of this industry

[Brocq17]

Thanks dude, sounds like you got a sweet deal going, does the average chem engineer make that in america?
I swear when i see ameribrahs talk about the pay they get i feel like the uk short changes a lot of degrees.



anyone know exactly what is Financial Engineering is like a post grad subject after doing some form of maths based degree?

Average starting salary for Chem is about ~66kish for 2016. It's consistently listed as one of the best degrees for starting salary. The main issue with ChemE though is location. Most companies locate their chemical plants a good distance away from densely populated areas due to all the red tape issues as well as public safety concerns for your more dangerous materials like solvents/fertilizes/flammables. The catch being that the higher paying jobs tend to place you in less than ideal locations. You could go to Alaska to work in mining/petro and get paid almost 100k.

One major bonus for ChemE, and engineering in general, is that the skills you learn can easily be applied to other focus areas that aren't exclusively engineering. A bunch of my classmates went into consulting and banking as ChemEs since an engineering degree teaches you godlike problem solving and analytical skills. Plus it's easier to teach an engineer how to create DCF models through excel than it is teaching a finance major what Bernoulli's Principle is

[CarmenCrudup]

studied EE - hardware, chip design, all the fun stuff, lot of advanced math and others. Go team!

[mdiggitydawg]

Which concentration/s of EE has/have the brightest outlook for future employment? I've knocked out some of the pre-req's for engineering (gen ed, calc 1-3, physics 1, intro to c++) and am about to transfer to get started on actual engineering courses. I have no idea what I want to specialize in though because it all sounds interesting, but I do know I want to pick something that will be in demand in the workforce. So what would you guys recommend? Robotics? Nanotechnology?

[SouthDakotaBrah]

Which concentration/s of EE has/have the brightest outlook for future employment? I've knocked out some of the pre-req's for engineering (gen ed, calc 1-3, physics 1, intro to c++) and am about to transfer to get started on actual engineering courses. I have no idea what I want to specialize in though because it all sounds interesting, but I do know I want to pick something that will be in demand in the workforce. So what would you guys recommend? Robotics? Nanotechnology?

Power systems will always be in high demand, and there are lots of opportunities and different paths you can go down with an EE power specialization. If you decide to transition away from engineering, EE Power specialization lends itself well to finance, consulting, law, etc. if you want to work on the business/finance/regulatory/management sides of the energy industry.

[Ownster8932]

Which concentration/s of EE has/have the brightest outlook for future employment? I've knocked out some of the pre-req's for engineering (gen ed, calc 1-3, physics 1, intro to c++) and am about to transfer to get started on actual engineering courses. I have no idea what I want to specialize in though because it all sounds interesting, but I do know I want to pick something that will be in demand in the workforce. So what would you guys recommend? Robotics? Nanotechnology?

If possible, I would discourage specializing at the undergrad level. Undergrad is for breadth, not depth, IMO. And particularly at that stage, you really don't even know what you do/don't like. How would you know you don't wanna be in controls or RF or electronics if you never take any classes in those subjects? In real life, a lot of things are not as cut and dry as classes (for example, you draw from aspects of several different subjects in completing projects). At least in my job, I certainly draw on a broad-range of EE skills. Then if you find you really like this or that, you can continue on to a master's. However, I have found that I continue to like basically everything (aside from power distribution- not that it isn't a worthy field, but it doesn't really get my EE senses tingling, lol), so I would literally be fine doing a MS in just about any EE subject. Some people only like certain parts/aspects. Point is, I think you need more breadth in your UG training in order to give yourself the exposure and ability to make that decision (and also actual experience in the field to see how you like it in practice).

However, some schools require you to specialize. Given that, i would tend towards things that tend to translate well and more generally, IMO (things like electronics or embedded rather than communication systems). Of course, different people will tell you different things.

Quite frankly, at the end of the day, I wouldn't concern yourself too much with getting the "right" specialty as there are many (basically any of them) that will serve you just fine. I would focus on taking classes that you enjoy and will do well in, lol.

[Mertcann85]

Industrial engineer here. Professional life for 7.5 years. Sales at Reckitt Benckiser, Territory Manager at a private petroleum company,f inancial Language Editor at S&P Capital IQ, now NAVIS implementation&sustainability admin for 8 different ports.

Well, what I can share depending on my personal experience is that,

1. I would skip master/PhD or whatever further steps are. Real life compared to educational clouds are ironic.
2. I would stay away from sales.
3. I would bust my a** off in a corporate/reputable company for the initial steps of the career, and then look for a fast-paced growing company to make myself priceless and unique with my gained skills and educational background.
4. I am sorry, if it sounds harsh and demotivating; but at the end of the day" you work for your life". So, balance is quite quite important. The stress, working hours, responsibilites out of your business scope,-even dressing code!- are crucial factors. Some financial income is not worth at it all!
5. This is the most important one I came across:
-Be successful at different things. Basketball, poker(not kidding I got one of the jobs because of stress management), football, travelling, chess, dancing, DJing bla bla...Noone cares if you are a president of a student union, that's just old-school lame illusive stuff. Just show them, you achieved everything you handled and indeed handle lots of different cases.

Dunno, how these "loans" work at USA, but globally; if you are an industrial engineer, do not afraid of jumping from trees to trees and ignore the "years of experienced base" career pressure. That's just an intimidating illusion of corporate structures and society


Good luck and hope the best for everyone.

[SouthDakotaBrah]

Whats everyone been up to lately? I've been landing some very cool projects lately, working with new technologies in the energy industry (renewable energy, energy storage, electric vehicles) and helping clients integrate these into their business strategy and planning efforts. Starting up a new project next month where I will be learning a new modeling software and have been gaining a lot more responsibility in the firm. Things are going really well here, hopefully everybody else has been having a good summer

Industrial engineer here. Professional life for 7.5 years. Sales at Reckitt Benckiser, Territory Manager at a private petroleum company,f inancial Language Editor at S&P Capital IQ, now NAVIS implementation&sustainability admin for 8 different ports.

Well, what I can share depending on my personal experience is that,

1. I would skip master/PhD or whatever further steps are. Real life compared to educational clouds are ironic.
2. I would stay away from sales.
3. I would bust my a** off in a corporate/reputable company for the initial steps of the career, and then look for a fast-paced growing company to make myself priceless and unique with my gained skills and educational background.
4. I am sorry, if it sounds harsh and demotivating; but at the end of the day" you work for your life". So, balance is quite quite important. The stress, working hours, responsibilites out of your business scope,-even dressing code!- are crucial factors. Some financial income is not worth at it all!
5. This is the most important one I came across:
-Be successful at different things. Basketball, poker(not kidding I got one of the jobs because of stress management), football, travelling, chess, dancing, DJing bla bla...Noone cares if you are a president of a student union, that's just old-school lame illusive stuff. Just show them, you achieved everything you handled and indeed handle lots of different cases.

Dunno, how these "loans" work at USA, but globally; if you are an industrial engineer, do not afraid of jumping from trees to trees and ignore the "years of experienced base" career pressure. That's just an intimidating illusion of corporate structures and society


Good luck and hope the best for everyone.

Valuable advice from somebody with great experience in the field, thank you brah

[DrinkingBull]

Whats everyone been up to lately? I've been landing some very cool projects lately, working with new technologies in the energy industry (renewable energy, energy storage, electric vehicles) and helping clients integrate these into their business strategy and planning efforts. Starting up a new project next month where I will be learning a new modeling software and have been gaining a lot more responsibility in the firm. Things are going really well here, hopefully everybody else has been having a good summer


Valuable advice from somebody with great experience in the field, thank you brah

That sounds awesome man. I've been interning pretty much the whole summer so far. It's my second summer with the company and I'm at a sweet spot of not having very many responsibilities yet, but still getting to work on cool and significant stuff.

In fact we develop a simulation/modeling application for analysts like yourself (different domain though). I'm actually pretty interested in that side of things. I'm hoping that in the future I'll get a bigger role in the analysis that goes on but I'm pretty strong on the programming side so I haven't had much of a chance yet to branch out.

[askem]

Guys, I may soon be in a tough spot where I have to choose between two offers but not trying to jinx it.

I graduated in May with a BSEE. GPA wasn't great (3.0) and I didn't get to do any internships. I know, I dun goofed. Unfortunately, I had to work during school and was working full time during my last two years. Job I did was unrelated to my degree but paid the bills and even helped pay for school with reimbursement. I was never too sure in which direction I wanted to go with the degree tbh.

I'm in sales now and have been considering doing tech sales. I had a final interview with a growing company for a tech sales role and I'm waiting for feedback. Actually got a call on Friday but was working so I missed it. Voicemail recruiter left said they have a position in mind for me. I called back and left the woman a voicemail. Hope to hear back tomorrow.

I have a phone interview tomorrow as well for an EE position at a company that designs and manufactures power equipment. Not really too excited but I think this position overall may be better career wise.

Not sure what to do brahs.

[Ownster8932]

Guys, I may soon be in a tough spot where I have to choose between two offers but not trying to jinx it.

I graduated in May with a BSEE. GPA wasn't great (3.0) and I didn't get to do any internships. I know, I dun goofed. Unfortunately, I had to work during school and was working full time during my last two years. Job I did was unrelated to my degree but paid the bills and even helped pay for school with reimbursement. I was never too sure in which direction I wanted to go with the degree tbh.

I'm in sales now and have been considering doing tech sales. I had a final interview with a growing company for a tech sales role and I'm waiting for feedback. Actually got a call on Friday but was working so I missed it. Voicemail recruiter left said they have a position in mind for me. I called back and left the woman a voicemail. Hope to hear back tomorrow.

I have a phone interview tomorrow as well for an EE position at a company that designs and manufactures power equipment. Not really too excited but I think this position overall may be better career wise.

Not sure what to do brahs.

In general, one may not necessarily be better than the other. One may be better than the other depending on what you want to do/where you want to go with your career. If you want to go into tech sales, where there are tons of available opportunities, with the ability to make some pretty-good money relatively speaking, then obviously the first is the better choice. If you want to be more technical, actually design things, use things you learned in your degree, where there are also tons of available opportunities, then the second choice is obviously better. I understand that the second job is not your ideal choice as far as design goes, but most people don't stay at their first job for their whole careers anyways. So you're certainly not forced to stay there long term. Gain some experience and try to find something that is more along the lines of what you want to do.

I actually had the same choice to make coming out of school. I had two good offers from two big companies (TI and Baker Hughes), one for sales and the other for R&D/Design. The money was about even (slightly more for R&D), but really, I knew I wanted to do something technical and it would have had to have been a pretty big $ difference for me to pick sales, so the fact that R&D came out ahead was just another bonus.

Maybe you don't know, but I have to suspect that you kinda know which one you would really rather do or where you want your career to go. I would not necessarily pick the actual better offer between the two (meaning $ wise), but rather pick the offer that gives you the best opportunity to do what you want moving forward. I will say that, generally, it's going to be more difficult to get back into design from a sales background than the other way around. Doing 5 years of sales and then saying eh, I want to go into R&D is going to present a much bigger (though not impossible) challenge than from design to sales.

I would say that just because you're in sales currently does not mean you should go into sales now, either. Clearly you went to school to fill some void or create some opportunities that you weren't able to get before. However, if sales is what you want, then sure, it seems like a natural transition/fit. So figure out what that is, as nobody here can answer that for you, outside of playing psychologist and guessing.

Why did you go back to school? Which of these jobs gives you the best chance for success in fulfilling those reasons? Where do you see yourself/your career going forward? Filter out the noise and focus on the meaningful things to question.

Best of luck.

[cncman]

After these years I've finally decided to bite the bullet and start my own company. Found a building and a machine, I'll slowly get it rolling I just have to make sure the machine is busy before it even gets there. Heading to UT - Austin for the MBA this spring, and I've taken the role of ISO/AS9100 rep at my current company to learn it all for my business.

I'm nervous about how much work I'm gonna find. I wouldn't do it if I hadn't designed, made, and sold a lot of parts to a lot of people.

[DanyBambino]

After these years I've finally decided to bite the bullet and start my own company. Found a building and a machine, I'll slowly get it rolling I just have to make sure the machine is busy before it even gets there. Heading to UT - Austin for the MBA this spring, and I've taken the role of ISO/AS9100 rep at my current company to learn it all for my business.

I'm nervous about how much work I'm gonna find. I wouldn't do it if I hadn't designed, made, and sold a lot of parts to a lot of people.

What business?

[askem]

In general, one may not necessarily be better than the other. One may be better than the other depending on what you want to do/where you want to go with your career. If you want to go into tech sales, where there are tons of available opportunities, with the ability to make some pretty-good money relatively speaking, then obviously the first is the better choice. If you want to be more technical, actually design things, use things you learned in your degree, where there are also tons of available opportunities, then the second choice is obviously better. I understand that the second job is not your ideal choice as far as design goes, but most people don't stay at their first job for their whole careers anyways. So you're certainly not forced to stay there long term. Gain some experience and try to find something that is more along the lines of what you want to do.

I actually had the same choice to make coming out of school. I had two good offers from two big companies (TI and Baker Hughes), one for sales and the other for R&D/Design. The money was about even (slightly more for R&D), but really, I knew I wanted to do something technical and it would have had to have been a pretty big $ difference for me to pick sales, so the fact that R&D came out ahead was just another bonus.

Maybe you don't know, but I have to suspect that you kinda know which one you would really rather do or where you want your career to go. I would not necessarily pick the actual better offer between the two (meaning $ wise), but rather pick the offer that gives you the best opportunity to do what you want moving forward. I will say that, generally, it's going to be more difficult to get back into design from a sales background than the other way around. Doing 5 years of sales and then saying eh, I want to go into R&D is going to present a much bigger (though not impossible) challenge than from design to sales.

I would say that just because you're in sales currently does not mean you should go into sales now, either. Clearly you went to school to fill some void or create some opportunities that you weren't able to get before. However, if sales is what you want, then sure, it seems like a natural transition/fit. So figure out what that is, as nobody here can answer that for you, outside of playing psychologist and guessing.

Why did you go back to school? Which of these jobs gives you the best chance for success in fulfilling those reasons? Where do you see yourself/your career going forward? Filter out the noise and focus on the meaningful things to question.

Best of luck.

I went back to school because I was tired of working in warehouses. I didn't go to school right after high school and chose EE because I always thought math and science came easy to me. I know I can make decent money with the degree but I also know that I can make six figures doing tech sales probably sooner. I'm honestly trying to pay off student loans ASAP, srs, like less than two years.

I agree with you in that it would be easier for me to go back to sales after EE experience than the other way around. I think that would be the better choice overall. Thanks for your input brother.

[Bobs of FL]

After these years I've finally decided to bite the bullet and start my own company. Found a building and a machine, I'll slowly get it rolling I just have to make sure the machine is busy before it even gets there. Heading to UT - Austin for the MBA this spring, and I've taken the role of ISO/AS9100 rep at my current company to learn it all for my business.

I'm nervous about how much work I'm gonna find. I wouldn't do it if I hadn't designed, made, and sold a lot of parts to a lot of people.

manlets taking over the world. you got this bro

[cncman]

What business?

I'll be manufacturing with a side of engineering and business consulting. Probably SAP and process heavy.

manlets taking over the world. you got this bro

we world domination now

[mslman71]

Industrial engineer here. Professional life for 7.5 years. Sales at Reckitt Benckiser, Territory Manager at a private petroleum company,f inancial Language Editor at S&P Capital IQ, now NAVIS implementation&sustainability admin for 8 different ports.

Well, what I can share depending on my personal experience is that,

1. I would skip master/PhD or whatever further steps are. Real life compared to educational clouds are ironic.
...

Without getting into the bit about doing what you love, want to do, etc. I will say that the PhD opens some doors you may not have considered. For me it has provided flexibility in terms of picking up a university appointment and contacts, has allowed me to consult as a subject matter expert, and best of all as an expert witness in patent litigation. The PhD doesn't preclude doing anything else but it sure does help with opportunities outside of industry that would be a lot harder (or impossible) to get without it. Let me tell you, patent litigation consulting money is damn good, obscenely good sometimes, at least in electrical engineering.