"Fierce 5" Comprehensive Program List

[manuel1987]

Guys i am having Mobility issues in my shoulders while doing the Overhead Press, what would the best substitute be while i work on my mobility? (i am rib flaring/bending back to be able to lift straight up)

Incline Benchpress is listed as one in the faq if i read correctly, was wondering if seated Dumbbell shoulderpress at a 85 degrees angle or something else would be better considering i have some issues?

My shoulders worry me since they make grinding/cracking noise when i move them and they are also uneven atleast the anterior deltoid is, unsecure if its genetics or unbalanced muscle development or both.

will add a picture:

What would you guys think is the best exercise considering my issues?

edit: doing the novice full body program.

Dont want to stress but any input would be greatly appreciated.

[MyEgoProblem]

Hi Ego, I understand what you are saying, my question is specially with regards to Deadlifts as I've seen some programs, SS, ICF seem to have 1x5 for Deadlifts as they (their words) are so taxing on CNS.

Other thing I have considered is having 1 heavy and a couple of slightly lighter back off sets to keep the volume up. I have accumulated a little knowledge and so am becoming dangerous so any feedback would be appreciated. Cheers.

Yeah my bad.. Was borderline asleep when I posted!

Davis has you doing submaximal sets of 5, as in not legit 5rms, the first 2 should be relatively 'easier' than the 1x5s other programs prescribe tbh. And only coming closer to your limit on the 3Rd..

Id be inclined to say a top set and two down sets as you suggested..

1x5 Top set following normal weights increases
2x5 down sets (90% of top set)

[deceptweb]

Dont want to stress but any input would be greatly appreciated.

Do you do any banded stretching before you OHP? A lot of shoulder problems are ROM problems which are alleviated over time with proper stretching.

[Metalmank]

The issue is Saturday and Sunday, in the FAQ he states that if you want to use deadlifts you should add an extra rest day between upper B and lower B to avoid working your back two days in a row, which in effect would make it a MT THSat program. Thanks for the compliment.

Yeah im suicidal and running U/L M to Th with deads.. If I die. I die.

[davisj3537]

On vacation. Fend for yourselves gents.

[dgoyena216]

On vacation. Fend for yourselves gents.

Enjoy it dude!

[manuel1987]

Do you do any banded stretching before you OHP? A lot of shoulder problems are ROM problems which are alleviated over time with proper stretching.

I tried that but it doesn't really help, i also got issues with thoracic spine mobility, coupled with the fact that i have high resting internal rotation and uneven deltoid development i was wondering if i should stop OHP esp. as the weight increases and instead do seated dumbbell presses at a slight angle.

I am just not sure if that is the right thing to do or if it would somehow screw up the balance of the program. Or if there is a better solution.

[deceptweb]

I tried that but it doesn't really help, i also got issues with thoracic spine mobility, coupled with the fact that i have high resting internal rotation and uneven deltoid development i was wondering if i should stop OHP esp. as the weight increases and instead do seated dumbbell presses at a slight angle.

I am just not sure if that is the right thing to do or if it would somehow screw up the balance of the program. Or if there is a better solution.

Well through out his posts, there's one lift he stresses not to remove from the program and that's OHP, as for your problems you may want to see a physiologist and ask their recommendation. You may have a more serious injury and we're only guessing.

[Metalmank]

I tried that but it doesn't really help, i also got issues with thoracic spine mobility, coupled with the fact that i have high resting internal rotation and uneven deltoid development i was wondering if i should stop OHP esp. as the weight increases and instead do seated dumbbell presses at a slight angle.

I am just not sure if that is the right thing to do or if it would somehow screw up the balance of the program. Or if there is a better solution.

Have you seen a professional in regards to this? Mite beable to help / solve some issues or offer an alternative. Otherwise yeah I would say find a sub. Unsure what you could sub for OHP other then Seated DB presses or seated OHP (if you can do that) or even machines.

[Metalmank]

On vacation. Fend for yourselves gents.

What davis really said.

[manuel1987]

Have you seen a professional in regards to this? Mite beable to help / solve some issues or offer an alternative. Otherwise yeah I would say find a sub. Unsure what you could sub for OHP other then Seated DB presses or seated OHP (if you can do that) or even machines.

Well through out his posts, there's one lift he stresses not to remove from the program and that's OHP, as for your problems you may want to see a physiologist and ask their recommendation. You may have a more serious injury and we're only guessing.

No i haven't seen a professional regarding my issues, i pretty much stopped doing sports at 17 and just started again about 15 months ago so i assumed lack of mobility and flexibility have to do with my 10 year hiatus. I have never really been the flexible type anyway.

It's not like i am in pain when doing OHP its just that i am worried of having shoulder issues a few years down the road if i continue with bad form etc.

I guess visiting a physical therapist might be a better idea then trying to fix everything myself.

[THErunCMD]

Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but I don't think my situation is fully covered in the FAQ. Does this look okay for someone with just a rack, bench, GHD, ironmaster 120lbers, dip station, and platform? Bear in mind warmups are built into this so if rep/set counts look weird that's probably why. My main concerns are doing the deadlift variation of Lower B but not having a leg extension and subbing in front squats as well as not being able to easily switch weights on the dumbells for the pullovers - was thinking on putting in dips there.

[Metalmank]

Realized for the Lower B Deadlift variation. I was doing Bulgarian Split squats instead of lunges. Is that fine? I figured they where basically the same.

[Charlescheeze]

No i haven't seen a professional regarding my issues, i pretty much stopped doing sports at 17 and just started again about 15 months ago so i assumed lack of mobility and flexibility have to do with my 10 year hiatus. I have never really been the flexible type anyway.

It's not like i am in pain when doing OHP its just that i am worried of having shoulder issues a few years down the road if i continue with bad form etc.

I guess visiting a physical therapist might be a better idea then trying to fix everything myself.

I have a slightly different issue to you but this prevents me from doing OHP without discomfort. After trying several different exercises I discovered that I can do DB overhead presses with a more neutral grip without issue.

That said still worth seeing a PT make sure there are no underlying issues.

[Stern84]

Hi all,

Quick question on hack squats, which are an approved substitution for front squats...

Are these barbell hack squats like this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdtaJRBqwes

Or smith hack squats like this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfEhHboTcow

Or does it not really matter? I've never done barbell hack squats before but happy to give them a go. Smith hack squats however i have done and the burn in my quads was intense (in a good way!)

Cheers

[Stern84]

For Question 2. Do you high bar or low bar squat normally?

I low bar, and also have issues with front squats. So I went with a paused high bar squat in place of front squats.

Another alternative, does your gym have a Safety Squat Bar? They're awesome for a replacement. Basically give you exactly the same positioning as a front squat, without any of the grip issues.

Sorry mate, i deleted my original post and started again when i realised that hack squats were already an approved sub for front squats!

So far as my back squats go, i've got long femurs and it took me months of trial and error to find the "sweet spot" which for me is a high position along with squatting shoes to raise my heals up. Prior to this i was squatting in flat shoes and using a lower position which was resulting in my squats looking like good mornings and causing a load of lower back pain!

Glad to see i'm not the only one with front squat issues! I don't know what it is but i just can't get to the stage where the bar feels secure enough to start adding real weight to it. To put it into perspective, I weigh 190lbs and my current back squat is 120kg (approx 260lbs) for 3x5. My front squat is stuck at 40kg (approx 90lbs)! It's now at the stage where i don't want to go to the gym on lower B because i'm that f**ked off with them! If it wasn't for the fact that i loved the rest of F5 so much, i'd have packed it in weeks back and gone onto a program without them!!

No we don't have a safety bar, although that would solve the issues! Paused back squats are an option but i fancied something a bit different. Smith hack squats (we don't have a proper hack machine) are something i used to do when i started out and i really liked them. Just wondering if they would still be ok or whether Davis was talking about barbell hack squats (bar behind the back type).

[Imp81318]

I've been doing a slightly modified version of the novice dumbbell program at home due to available equipment and time (or lack thereof to go to the gym). Now that school has let out for the summer, I may have more time to go to the gym twice per week coming up. If I am going to work out in the gym 2x per week and at home 1x per week, is it OK to do the novice full body program in the gym and the dumbbell program at home? It looks to me like the exercises are basically all modifications of the same movements using dumbbells rather than barbells and squat racks so I wouldn't expect there to be any issues with this plan other than maxing out my equipment at home, but I wanted to double check in case I'm missing some difference or if there is some alteration to one of the programs that would be appropriate.

[bob2589]

Realized for the Lower B Deadlift variation. I was doing Bulgarian Split squats instead of lunges. Is that fine? I figured they where basically the same.

Pretty sure Davis has said a number of times he prefers split squats to lunges so I would say yes.

I've tried them a few times but always feel like i'm gonna fall over!

[Metalmank]

Pretty sure Davis has said a number of times he prefers split squats to lunges so I would say yes.

I've tried them a few times but always feel like i'm gonna fall over!

Good to know. I think I recall someone saying that as well. Just wanted to make sure.

tell you what tho.. My glutes are sore as fawwwwwwk man. Split squats are no joke

[sumusikoo]

Deadlift form check guys

[TnTNZ]

Ok you need to get a full body shot, so we can see how you are setting up. Hard to see if the weight is leaving the ground at the same time your hips rise.

Can't see if your knees are locked out, and hard to see if the bar is drifting out from your body.

Your lower back looks too rounded for me, and it's hard to see if your hips are too high or too low.

[TnTNZ]

Sorry mate, i deleted my original post and started again when i realised that hack squats were already an approved sub for front squats!

No drama, I figured as much, so deleted mine as well

Glad to see i'm not the only one with front squat issues! I don't know what it is but i just can't get to the stage where the bar feels secure enough to start adding real weight to it.

Know the feeling, my front squat is running about 60kg behind my back squat, it shouldn't that far behind. Keep in mind, Front Squats are not supposed to be comfortable. Numerous times I've heard 'you feel like you're being choked out', and when you set the bar back that far, it becomes... easier. You'll probably find the same thing I did. Upper back weakness is what's at the root. I tend to lean forward at the bottom of the squat and that causes the bar to come forward, putting a heap of pressure on my hands, and my left index finger knuckle causes me significant pain as a result. Fortunately I have access to a SSB, and as a result I've come to realise that it's my upper back that's the source of the problem, I'm just not able to stay upright enough to keep the bar in position.

[tommy4life]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=NdAUuW4uSLo

Hey lads, can I please get a form check on my squat. Especially to see if my buttwinks is acceptable.

And to Sumusikoo, i think your body is a tad too horizontal. Try to lower your hips and elevating your chest.

[Buckeyes2199]

Sometimes I notice at the end of my workouts when I'm tired I skip the calf work once in a while. I still do the abs though. Do any of you guys do this? Will this hurt anything or help my compounds?

Thanks guys

[Farley1324]

Sometimes I notice at the end of my workouts when I'm tired I skip the calf work once in a while. I still do the abs though. Do any of you guys do this? Will this hurt anything or help my compounds?

Thanks guys

Calves?

Never really done those myself.

I'd say that unless you are going to be disappointed with not seeing a difference in your calves, it can't hurt to skip.

[bob2589]

Sometimes I notice at the end of my workouts when I'm tired I skip the calf work once in a while. I still do the abs though. Do any of you guys do this? Will this hurt anything or help my compounds?

Thanks guys

Calves take next to no time for me. 3 sets of 10 raises on the seated leg press counting mississipilli (sp?) between each rep.

I have small calves though so I always try to stay motivated and get them in.

[skinnyandold]

Have a feeling I know that answer but I want to ask anyway.

I hate my shoulders. If you knocked on the top of them, you'd probably hear a hollow sound. Its all bone and skin with not much meat.

I want to change that and incorporate some delt isolation work into the F5 beginner routing I started about 4 weeks ago. I have been reading here that shoulder work is best left to once a week. Being a newb and finding that most of what I read later turns out to be nonsense, I am not sure this is true. If so, I was thinking of doing the shoulder/delt work during the weekend, 2 off days.

Is this OK, or just let the program take care of it in time?

[Metalmank]

Have a feeling I know that answer but I want to ask anyway.

I hate my shoulders. If you knocked on the top of them, you'd probably hear a hollow sound. Its all bone and skin with not much meat.

I want to change that and incorporate some delt isolation work into the F5 beginner routing I started about 4 weeks ago. I have been reading here that shoulder work is best left to once a week. Being a newb and finding that most of what I read later turns out to be nonsense, I am not sure this is true. If so, I was thinking of doing the shoulder/delt work during the weekend, 2 off days.

Is this OK, or just let the program take care of it in time?

if you're eating in a surplus and running F5 novice you should see some growth especially with noobie gains. As in for adding extra iso work. Well its not recommended, but if you really want to than thats on you. It could hinder your progression in the program or it mite not depending. I did quite a bit of Iso work when I was running f5 novice which was mainly bis/tris but of course i went against the programs advice.

So should you? Prob not as your novice gains should in time grow those areas.

[Metalmank]

Sometimes I notice at the end of my workouts when I'm tired I skip the calf work once in a while. I still do the abs though. Do any of you guys do this? Will this hurt anything or help my compounds?

Thanks guys

If I'm short on time I usually always skip the iso work like calves/abs (As I figure doing squats hits the abs and calves pretty well).

But Ive seen some growth on my calves so Im tryin to not skip it now lol

[Dani163]

Hey, recently I've been doing some back and forth workouts between B and A. However, I have felt some nerve pain for a split second. First time happened a few days ago, and the other time was just before I wrote this post. I guess the nerve is connected from my hip to my feet, and I assume the cause of this was because of a bad form on the back squat or during the Romanian deadlift. I have noticed during my back squats that I tend to lean forward on my way up, hence, me not having a straight back all the way up and could almost say that I do a good morning rep.

Also, on the RDL I have noticed sometimes it could happen that my back gets rounded due to the reason not bracing the core properly before beginning the set. In some reps I even don't have the energy to correct the form into pushing my hip back in order to do the RDL, instead I do just a few reps of straight leg deadlifts and a few reps of RDL in ONE SET. But lately I have been able to push out my hip on the way down and having my back straight all the way in a nice curve if you will.

I would like for someone to address the problem with the nerve pain and if it's safe for me to continue, also I've been noticing some strong soreness in my glutes.. so I can't tell if it's either a muscle problem or a bone problem, maybe both? Help me please!

EDIT: I have one other major concern around shoe choice when doing these workouts, are Nike Huarache Shoes good for the squats/deadlift/pendley rows? Or are they bad because of the ''height'' it adds under the heels which leads to extra long legs during the lifts causing back pain and hamstring pain?