Kelei Routines/Advice

[lajoo]

Alright, so i'm gonna be doing an overreach on the front squats. My current front squat is at 365x11, will be front squatting everyday until i'm at 365x6-7 or if reps don't drop maximum 30 days, volume will be 80-120 reps per day.

[klaximilian]

It already has AA in it though (250mg), how much more AA do you take with it?


My carb intake is already usually pretty high, maybe that's why I don't notice much of a difference in my pump?


I just feel more alert on it, increased recovery between sets and more of that gym ''tunnel vision'' if you know what I mean.

Including the ArA in vaskular, I take a total of 1.5g/day (not including ArA from eggs/beef/etc)

[ThatOneLurker]

Including the ArA in vaskular, I take a total of 1.5g/day (not including ArA from eggs/beef/etc)

I haven't been able to find the amount of AA in one egg yolk. Do you know by any chance?

[klaximilian]

I haven't been able to find the amount of AA in one egg yolk. Do you know by any chance?

I don't have the exact value, but I think it's around 75mg/egg

[ThatOneLurker]

I don't have the exact value, but I think it's around 75mg/egg

Thanks fam.

[bruzAduz]

Just did my second day of this routine today and it went a lot better. Starting to get better at knowing how much rest to take between sets though still not perfect yet. I was just wondering if it would be fine for me to work out tomorrow considering I worked out today? I heard that you shouldn't work out the same muscles consecutively yet I see people saying that its fine to do this full body 4-5 times per week if you're up for it. Just wondering because I've always heard that the same muscles need time to rest and shouldn't be worked out on consecutive days.

Curious about this. Also, what rep range should I be shooting for on the beginner full body program while cutting?

[Effrum]

Curious about this. Also, what rep range should I be shooting for on the beginner full body program while cutting?

Assuming your diet and rest are good, your muscles will adapt to your workout frequency just fine to do full body at 20-30 reps 4+ times a week. It will eventually catch up to your tendons, because they adapt slower, but that's what deloads are for.

If you're cutting and can keep doing 30 reps, do 30 reps. If you can only manage 20, do 20. Basically you do as many as you have energy for. When I was cutting on the full body A/B routine I couldn't do more than 25 reps without crashing mid workout, so that's what I stuck with.

[MichielN]

I don't have the exact value, but I think it's around 75mg/egg

Yes. See http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...4?quantity=0.0

Open up the fatty acid tab and look under 20:4 to find out the ArA content of a food. One normal egg (large, 50 g) contains ~75 mg ArA.

20:5 is EPA fyi, and 22:6 is DHA.

[RGA8]

Alright, so i'm gonna be doing an overreach on the front squats. My current front squat is at 365x11, will be front squatting everyday until i'm at 365x6-7 or if reps don't drop maximum 30 days, volume will be 80-120 reps per day.

Good luck man, sounds brutal. Let us know how it goes!

Curious about this. Also, what rep range should I be shooting for on the beginner full body program while cutting?

Keep in mind: training your muscles beyond what they can recover is not necessarily a bad thing. It's a common strategy for powerlifters. If your muscles don't get enough rest the training effect doesn't magically disappear, it gets backlogged until the next time you sleep/eat. This is why we have deloads!

[klaximilian]

Yes. See http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...4?quantity=0.0

Open up the fatty acid tab and look under 20:4 to find out the ArA content of a food. One normal egg (large, 50 g) contains ~75 mg ArA.

20:5 is EPA fyi, and 22:6 is DHA.

Awesome. Thanks for confirming.

[corvette786]

Hello ,
I was curious to know if while on a cut , should you continue to deload regularly every 4th week? thanks

[klaximilian]

Hello ,
I was curious to know if while on a cut , should you continue to deload regularly every 4th week? thanks

Yes.

[Morti]

Alright, so i'm gonna be doing an overreach on the front squats. My current front squat is at 365x11, will be front squatting everyday until i'm at 365x6-7 or if reps don't drop maximum 30 days, volume will be 80-120 reps per day.

I have been really struggeling with getting the front squat form down, been running routine for 5 weeks now. Before i have only done high bar squats.

What is your routine for mobility and flexibility to have a good front squat? I use straps on the bar to compensate for shoulder mobilty, but still i find my elbows drop, it gets a little better when i widen my stance.

[lajoo]

I have been really struggeling with getting the front squat form down, been running routine for 5 weeks now. Before i have only done high bar squats.

What is your routine for mobility and flexibility to have a good front squat? I use straps on the bar to compensate for shoulder mobilty, but still i find my elbows drop, it gets a little better when i widen my stance.

Have you tried using a clean grip with only index and middle finger gripping the bar? that's how i initially started and my flexibility increased after a while and i was able to do a full clean grip.

As for mobility and flexibility goes, i think those improve as you front squat more often, you can try this strecth(skip to 6:40), i also recommend stretching your lats and chest

[Morti]

Have you tried using a clean grip with only index and middle finger gripping the bar? that's how i initially started and my flexibility increased after a while and i was able to do a full clean grip.

As for mobility and flexibility goes, i think those improve as you front squat more often, you can try this strecth(skip to 6:40), i also recommend stretching your lats and chest

Jupp thanksd, been doing that stretch for 1 week now. Should i drop down the weight until i get better form? Now i'm doing 70 kgs, elbow problem is mian reason i cant increase it. Should your elbows be parrallel to the floor during the whole lift?

Also are you doing any specific hip opener pre/post workout?

[Davis1891]

Hey guys, gotta question. Doing the A/B split for the past couple of months, and loving it.
In a couple of weeks, I'm taking a 6 week holiday to Hawaii (lol), and I'll have nothing but spare time on my hands while I'm there.
What I was wondering is about doing the workout(s) twice per day? (A in the morning, B in the afternoon per say?) Would it be overkill/lead to overtraining? Or, hopefully, would it be as beneficial to my growth as I'm hoping it would be?
Cheers and thanks =)

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

I'm thinking of changing up the routine to build on the main lifts.

Workout A
Bench Press x50
Pull Ups x50
Military Press x50
Bar Curls x30 (just for fun)

Workout B
Front Squats x50
Rom. DLs x50
Seated Calf Raises x50
Ab Work

Mon - A
Tues - B
Wed - A
Thurs - B
Fri - A
Sat/Sun - Rest

What do you guys think?

[ThatOneLurker]

I'm thinking of changing up the routine to build on the main lifts.

Workout A
Bench Press x50
Pull Ups x50
Military Press x50
Bar Curls x30 (just for fun)

Workout B
Front Squats x50
Rom. DLs x50
Seated Calf Raises x50
Ab Work

Mon - A
Tues - B
Wed - A
Thurs - B
Fri - A
Sat/Sun - Rest

What do you guys think?

You need 2 horizontal pulling movements.

Why are you dropping side delt work?


Standing calf raises are superior to seated calf raises.

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

You need 2 horizontal pulling movements.

Why?

Why are you dropping side delt work?

Minor exercise.

Standing calf raises are superior to seated calf raises.

Do you have a source for this or are you just speaking anecdotally?

[lajoo]

Should your elbows be parrallel to the floor during the whole lift?

Also are you doing any specific hip opener pre/post workout?

Lift your elbows as high as your flexibility allows.

I stretch my hip flexors,quads and hamstrings everyday before sleep.
On another note, you could maybe try increasing your frequency on front squats if you feel impatient about perfecting your form, decrease the volume though or you might overreach, not saying it's a bad thing, but i wouldn't suggest trying to overreach on an exercise when you're still trying to perfect your form.

What I was wondering is about doing the workout(s) twice per day? (A in the morning, B in the afternoon per say?) Would it be overkill/lead to overtraining? Or, hopefully, would it be as beneficial to my growth as I'm hoping it would be?
Cheers and thanks =)

Go ahead. If you see drops in strength in a few workouts or you feel more moody during the day, it could be signs that you're overreaching your CNS; just make sure you deload after a while. I'd say deload after 4 weeks if you'll be doing it everyday, you'll actually come back stronger.

I'm thinking of changing up the routine to build on the main lifts.

Workout A
Bench Press x50
Pull Ups x50
Military Press x50
Bar Curls x30 (just for fun)

Workout B
Front Squats x50
Rom. DLs x50
Seated Calf Raises x50
Ab Work

Mon - A
Tues - B
Wed - A
Thurs - B
Fri - A
Sat/Sun - Rest

What do you guys think?

I think it's a bad idea.

[lajoo]

Why?

you need at least one horizontal pull and one vertical pull for developing your lats,this is because your lats have two functions:

Shoulder adduction(pull-ups,etc)
Shoulder extension(close grip rows,etc)

the more exercise variation you have, the more developed your physique will be.

Minor exercise.

It's also the best exercise for building shoulder width.

Do you have a source for this or are you just speaking anecdotally?

Due to the mechanics of the movements and the different insertion points of the muscles in the calves, there's more focus on the gastronocomis during a standing calf raise and more focus on the soleus when doing a seated calf raise. This is why it's better to have both exercises in your routine, but if you're only going to be performing one exercise for your calves, it's better to go with standing because gastronocomis is a bigger muscle than soleus.

[ThatOneLurker]

Why?

Because vertical pulling movements don't counterbalance pressing (or chest flyes), and you have 2 presses with 0 horizontal pulling movements.

[xxx_jfb_xxx]

Thanks for the responses guys.

Wouldn't military press = pull ups? So I'm only missing 1 pulling exercise to balance out bench press? Like some bent over rows or seated rows?

Looks like I should just go back to doing the intermediate workout. That thing is just so exhausting though.

[jmmainvi]

Been a while, to say the least. Nearly two years, since I was on a kelei routine.... but I'm back.

I'm bulking because i'm lighter than I've been in years and it's winter. Looking to add around a pound per two weeks straight through from now until february or even march and hoping to keep to this routine the whole time.

I'll be doing the intermediate split, and rest pause front squats make me want to die. Shooting for 30-40 total reps on everything as recommended. I've never run an upper/lower though, only full body, push/pull, push/pull/legs, and various olympic lifting and powerlifting programs. I guess that means I need you all to take a look. I'm looking at a pretty basic split right now:

A:
Bench
Chest supported DB row
Pullup
Dip
Triceps (either overhead DB extensions or pressdowns)
Biceps (preacher or hammer curl)

B:
Front Squat
RDL
Leg Extension
Leg Curl
Cable Lateral Raise
Standing Calves

couple things:

- I've never trained calves before. In all of my seven years of going to the gym. I tried them last week, and I was barely able to walk for days afterwards. At this point, I feel like standing calves are enough. I'll eventually progress to doing both standing and seated.

- Cable raises are in between the leg curls and calves just to give myself a break, and so that I don't have to do them on my upper day and can give them closer to 100% effort.

- Not sure about my upper day. What is more recommended - bench and flyes, bench and dips, or dips and flyes? I'm willing to do any pairing of them.

- Chest supported DB row is something I've done previously on a kelei routine and loved. I'm willing to switch to cables or to machine seated row if that's a "better" exercise though. I'm also considering switching pullups to chinups, and adding in a plain old barbell row, just because I feel like there's never enough pulling.

- arm work isn't specific just because my gym is small and I'd rather not be waiting for equipment. Only one preacher bench and only one cable station.

- I cant stand rope pressdowns. I get too much forward lean and too much shoulder in them. I get MUCH better tricep activation by using a short bar or a V-bar. Am I missing out on anything significant there?

- I remember reading (from kelei, I think) that direct rear delt work isn't necessary when you're doing pulls that have you actively retracting the shoulder at the end of the ROM. Am I making things up and I need to add a rear delt exercise?

- I see a lot of routines with shrugs. I like shrugs, in all their varieties but I'm not sure I need them and I'm not sure I can fit them in. I also can't imagine doing 10 reps of shrugs with good form. What's the general opinion on those?

- I'll be lifting 5-6 times a week. I'll always be resting on sundays, and probably the majority of thursdays. Still a 4:1 recommendation for the working:deloading, or is a "go until you can't go anymore" more recommended?

sorry for the long post. I'm sure most of this has been answered a hundred times before, but a hundred times over multiple hundreds of pages of threads is...less than appealing.

[necomanis]

Beautiful...

[Effrum]

- Not sure about my upper day. What is more recommended - bench and flyes, bench and dips, or dips and flyes? I'm willing to do any pairing of them.

I would say do bench + flyes or dips + flyes for intermediate.

- Chest supported DB row is something I've done previously on a kelei routine and loved. I'm willing to switch to cables or to machine seated row if that's a "better" exercise though. I'm also considering switching pullups to chinups, and adding in a plain old barbell row, just because I feel like there's never enough pulling.

Chest supported is fine, the main thing is keeping your elbows tucked (you'll probably want to use a neutral grip) and squeezing your shoulder blades together at the top of the motion.

- I cant stand rope pressdowns. I get too much forward lean and too much shoulder in them. I get MUCH better tricep activation by using a short bar or a V-bar. Am I missing out on anything significant there?

It's fine, go with what you prefer.

- I remember reading (from kelei, I think) that direct rear delt work isn't necessary when you're doing pulls that have you actively retracting the shoulder at the end of the ROM. Am I making things up and I need to add a rear delt exercise?

Yes, he did say that. You don't need direct rear delt work, but some people have added it anyway. It's up to you.

- I see a lot of routines with shrugs. I like shrugs, in all their varieties but I'm not sure I need them and I'm not sure I can fit them in. I also can't imagine doing 10 reps of shrugs with good form. What's the general opinion on those?

If you feel your upper traps are lacking and want to add shrugs you're welcome to, but if you would have a hard time doing them following the RP rep scheme, it might not be worth it.

- I'll be lifting 5-6 times a week. I'll always be resting on sundays, and probably the majority of thursdays. Still a 4:1 recommendation for the working:deloading, or is a "go until you can't go anymore" more recommended?

Stick with 3-1 loading-deloading.

Also, welcome back!

[nerynery]

Hey guys, not sure what happened, but today, I went to the gym and started by doing DB Bench Press instead of Barbell BP, I alternate between both, and I felt pain on my left elbow.

This has never happened to me before. I stopped and went to do BB Bench Press instead and although the pain was less, I still felt the disconfort.. and just stopped after the first set.

Any ideas what happened? I never felt such thing before, I dont even do exercises that might hurt my elbow, I just do those on this thread plus chin ups and switch between Preacher curls / incl. DB Curls.

Thanks

[ThatOneLurker]

Thanks for the responses guys.

Wouldn't military press = pull ups? So I'm only missing 1 pulling exercise to balance out bench press? Like some bent over rows or seated rows?

Looks like I should just go back to doing the intermediate workout. That thing is just so exhausting though.

Pull ups are a vertical pulling movement not a horizontal pulling movement.

[LazyBastard]

Pull ups are a vertical pulling movement not a horizontal pulling movement.

Yes, but he's saying military press is a vertical push so his pullups (vertical pull) balance the press. Therefore he just needs to add in some form of horizontal row to balance the bench (horizontal push), correct?

[ThatOneLurker]

Yes, but he's saying military press is a vertical push so his pullups (vertical pull) balance the press. Therefore he just needs to add in some form of horizontal row to balance the bench (horizontal push), correct?

Incorrect. Vertical pulling movements don't work the rhomboids, lower traps, and rear delts as thoroughly. Horizontal pulling movements should be performed with a hard contraction of the shoulder blades (retraction) which reinforces good posture by preventing rounding of your shoulders. Vertical pulling movements do this to a much lesser degree which doesn't really counterbalance pressing movements as well as horizontal pulling movements do (reverse flyes, variations of rows).