AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part IIII

[FitnessFan76]

Actually, all I remember is that the Chrissy Z. BOR video was in an earlier AllPro's Beginner Routine thread and that no one criticized her form then. I don't recall if AllPro himself specifically recommend this video, but as he hasn't been on bb.com since May of 2012 we can't really ask his opinion...

And that said, one of the most frustrating things about lifting is that no two people seem to agree on the proper form for any given exercise. Heck, even on the bb.com exercise directory there is a disagreement between the video and text descriptions. WTF are beginners supposed to do when faced with this kind of confusion?

At any rate, here is another video demonstrating the BOR in which the back is held as parallel to the ground as possible:



Is that any better or worse than with the back at 45 degrees? Frankly, my suspicions is that it doesn't really matter, as long as one performs the lift consistently and does not round the back at all.

Looks like a good video except one thing - that guy's got twenties on that bar, yeah? Not sure how wise it is to do BOR with a rounded back like that when lifting heavy, even for demonstration purposes. He should've just used the bar.

FitnessFan76: thanks for the encouragement, and for putting the link to the 10RM testing procedure in your sig; that saved me a lot of work hunting back through all the posts to find it on a couple of occasions. As for the pre-workout meal, I have experienced the same thing. If I just eat cereal in the morning (and maybe sneak some chocolate... ahem) I tend to get wobbly/run out of energy early on in the routine (carb-induced blood sugar crash, I guess)

Glad to help mate. And yeah, I'd avoid chocolate before a training session.

[Cranz]

How's everyone doing?

Stupid back's playing up again, but I'll probably still go to the gym. Might swap out squats for leg press today, much as I don't want to. Quick question about BOR - even when doing my warmup weights, hell even when doing no weight at all, standing in the BOR 45 degree position seems to put a fair amount of pressure on my lower back - I was wondering whether going a bit lower would help with that? I'm not doing BOR or RDL until my back sorts itself out, but I definitely intend to get back to those two at some point sooner rather than later hopefully. If not doing BOR, or RDL I don't think I'm getting much forearm/grip work - am I right?



My opinion on calves - there's nothing wrong with doing them on a leg press machine, but I would agree with most people who say 12-16, rather than 8-12 reps for the cycle. Choose a weight slightly lower than your 10 rep max and do 12-16 reps, it'll bake your calves!

Order of exercises? My limited experience tells me that if you are going to play around with the order, don't do it until after OHP. The very idea of doing a gruelling workout and then thinking - OK: now it's time for squats... no thanks! I think moving squats to the last exercise doesn't make any sense physically or mentally.



Absolutely. Just a few cycles back, I was doing 40kg squats, now I'm on the verge of the milestone of whacking those lovely big twenties on the bar (62.5kg to be exact) - assuming I pass squats this cycle.

Any sort of BOR will put a pressure on your lower back, and hamstrings. It comes down to the personal individual, strength of your lower back, and form.

Put a video up, and let people judge it.

[FitnessFan76]

Any sort of BOR will put a pressure on your lower back, and hamstrings. It comes down to the personal individual, strength of your lower back, and form.

Put a video up, and let people judge it.

I put a video up a while back, and everyone said the form was OK - some suggested going a bit lower, but no one said there was anything wrong with the form itself.

[Jimmer74]

Uggh I am only squatting at 15kg (quarter of my bw)..otherwise my technique goes out the window

Strongly agree with Pandora. Just keep at it. The weights will naturally increase with more time under the bar. Don't rush to be Hercules - keep going and keep the form crisp. What you can lift with good form is much, much more important than what you can do with crappy form! Crappy form will just get you hurt...

Just takes time and patience.... keep getting under the bar and keep getting better.

[DonJPClarke]

Hi Guys quick question.

I started this program this week - mon-heavy wed-med fri-light

i want to go back and get my proper 10 rep maxz as when i started monday i hadnt read about the caculator ect,

Would i be best of skipping Wed this week and using friday to find my 10 rep max, then properly start the follow monday on cycle 1 week1 heavy? - problem with this is i have serious DOM's from squatting and im not sure it will be gone by friday and when finding ur 10 rep max you have to be fully rested?

[pandorakick]

Basically bench press has always been my Achilles' heel.

C1: Failed second set during w3 and w4. Then, on test day, I managed the 12 reps for both sets, even though my form on the second set was highly compromised.

I raised my weight by 10% (from 50kg to 55kg), even though my first thought was to rise only by 5%.

I think I'm going to continue C2 with the weight as it would have been rised by 5% and see how it goes. If I fail on C2 test day I'm gonna keep the same weight for C3.

Bolded the important part for you: this constitutes a fail on this exercise, meaning you shouldn't have gone up in weight. No wonder you're having trouble....

You'd be better off not upping in weight at all, then upping it with 5%. Going up too fast makes you stall out much sooner then would otherwise be the case.

[MagicSmoker]

i want to go back and get my proper 10 rep maxz as when i started monday i hadnt read about the caculator ect,

Would i be best of skipping Wed this week and using friday to find my 10 rep max, then properly start the follow monday on cycle 1 week1 heavy?

This is literally answered in the thread referenced in FitnessFan76's sig on how to find the 10RM weight for each exercise:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post928710923

[Cnsn08]

Guys,i need your help ...

I do 2,5 weeks ICF 5X5 and i like this routine but i think if only for the power this routine and i want a size! Yeaa i'm eat a lot dont worry..,I think change my routine after January and I want to AllPro Simple Beginner Routine.My english is little bad and I do not understand some of the terms..

This routine is 3 days right ? (Monday/Wednesday/Friday)

Monday:Heavy Wednesday:Medium Friday:Light weight right ? and other week change weights ?

And first Week all movements is 4 sets 8 reps range
Squats
Bench Presses
Bent-Over Rows
Overhead Barbell Presses
Stiff-Legged Deadlifts
Barbell Curls
Calf Raises

And Week 2 all movements 4 sets and 9 reps right ..? and it's going?

[nightanole]

Guys,i need your help ...

I do 2,5 weeks ICF 5X5 and i like this routine but i think if only for the power this routine and i want a size! Yeaa i'm eat a lot dont worry..,I think change my routine after January and I want to AllPro Simple Beginner Routine.My english is little bad and I do not understand some of the terms..

This routine is 3 days right ? (Monday/Wednesday/Friday)

Monday:Heavy Wednesday:Medium Friday:Light weight right ? and other week change weights ?

And first Week all movements is 4 sets 8 reps range
Squats
Bench Presses
Bent-Over Rows
Overhead Barbell Presses
Stiff-Legged Deadlifts
Barbell Curls
Calf Raises

And Week 2 all movements 4 sets and 9 reps right ..? and it's going?

Every workout is:
Squats
Bench Presses
Bent-Over Rows
Overhead Barbell Presses
Stiff-Legged Deadlifts
Barbell Curls
Calf Raises

All exercises are the same reps and sets. week 1 is 2 sets of 8, week 2 is 2 sets of 9, week 3 is 2 sets of 10...
first day is heavy, 2nd day is medium, 3rd day is light. after light day you add 1 rep to your heavy day.


PS: ICF 5x5 is for body builder just like allpro, so size gains should be about the same for each program.

[Cnsn08]

@nightanole Thank you so much ...

[AnthropoidApe]

After some opinions here re standard deadlifts.

No, I do not want to add them to the All Pro program. However, I want to do just a few sets of standard deadlifts over the next few weeks to get a reference 1RM, and just see if I can do them with okay form. This will be for future reference and I would really like to have the info. I currently have no idea what my deadlift 1RM might be.

When do you think it might be a good time to do a couple of sets of deads without screwing up All-Pro much? I am thinking that I could probably just add 1-2 sets to the end of a light day, perhaps two weeks running and not too close to a test day. I will be a little fatigued from the preceding work but it will still be a reasonable test.

I am sure I have improved my deadlift by doing squats + SLDL. It will be good to track this with an occasional test.

Any thoughts on this?

Also... if you were wildly guessing, what would you guess the relationship between squat/SLDL/DL 1RMs would be?

[Cranz]

After some opinions here re standard deadlifts.

No, I do not want to add them to the All Pro program. However, I want to do just a few sets of standard deadlifts over the next few weeks to get a reference 1RM, and just see if I can do them with okay form. This will be for future reference and I would really like to have the info. I currently have no idea what my deadlift 1RM might be.

When do you think it might be a good time to do a couple of sets of deads without screwing up All-Pro much? I am thinking that I could probably just add 1-2 sets to the end of a light day, perhaps two weeks running and not too close to a test day. I will be a little fatigued from the preceding work but it will still be a reasonable test.

I am sure I have improved my deadlift by doing squats + SLDL. It will be good to track this with an occasional test.

Any thoughts on this?

Also... if you were wildly guessing, what would you guess the relationship between squat/SLDL/DL 1RMs would be?

If you want to test your deadlifts, then don't do them after your workout even if it was light. It's wrong in so many reasons, just don't do it. I'd rather ditch light day, and do it instead if I want to properly test them.

As for estimates, it's really rough, and it varies on the individual. Perhaps, you can do this once a month, never try going too heavy at once.

[AnthropoidApe]

As for estimates, it's really rough, and it varies on the individual. Perhaps, you can do this once a month, never try going too heavy at once.

Thanks Cranz. Good point, maybe I could do a couple of sets of deads in W1 of a cycle, on light day, as a replacement for the squats and SLDLs that day. I could do them first-up, starting out rested. Then I would be testing every five weeks and probably not affecting the main program's progression much.

I am trying to plan my next few months a little bit, with a view to lifting harder over the Xmas period when I will probably be... errr... "bulking" aka eating plenty I am thinking I might as well ease off on the calorie deficit a bit and if I am doing that, vary the program a bit then return to All Pro in the new year on a bigger deficit again. Most of the stuff I am looking at includes deads (and I want to do them).

[Cranz]

Thanks Cranz. Good point, maybe I could do a couple of sets of deads in W1 of a cycle, on light day, as a replacement for the squats and SLDLs that day. I could do them first-up, starting out rested. Then I would be testing every five weeks and probably not affecting the main program's progression much.

I am trying to plan my next few months a little bit, with a view to lifting harder over the Xmas period when I will probably be... errr... "bulking" aka eating plenty I am thinking I might as well ease off on the calorie deficit a bit and if I am doing that, vary the program a bit then return to All Pro in the new year on a bigger deficit again. Most of the stuff I am looking at includes deads (and I want to do them).

You are welcome.

Just make sure you really...well really have good form on these. Check Starting Strength DVD, it's perfect, and will get you good form if you watch and understand it.

All Pro's have also said you can sub deadlifts into his program if you really want to do it ( even that he doesn't recommend it ). Here is direct quote from All Pro's in the original thread..

If you really, really want to do them then replace squats on the middle work out with dead
lifts BUT do the LITE squats on the third work out. That's to avoid over training. Follow the
same rep progression, 8-9-10-11-12."

[GP100]

Well cycle 2 week 4 medium day. I have a feeling next week will be rough. Think I'll be starting cycle 3 with some of the same weights. We will have to see what happens next week.

sqt-165#-11/10 failed
Bp-185# 10/9 failed
BOrows-120#-11/11
sohp--95#-11/11
sldl-135#-11/11
barcurl-70#-11/11
calfraises-135#-11/11

[Mainer215]

Well cycle 2 week 4 medium day. I have a feeling next week will be rough. Think I'll be starting cycle 3 with some of the same weights. We will have to see what happens next week.

sqt-165#-11/10 failed
Bp-185# 10/9 failed
BOrows-120#-11/11
sohp--95#-11/11
sldl-135#-11/11
barcurl-70#-11/11
calfraises-135#-11/11

GP,

Do not worry about failed tests as we all have had them. The other thing is that you haven't tested yet. You just may pass.

[AnthropoidApe]

GP,

Do not worry about failed tests as we all have had them. The other thing is that you haven't tested yet. You just may pass.

Indeed, I was sure I was going to fail things that I ended up not failing. You just never know. I ended up hoping I would fail upright row last cycle, it was too fricking hard and I wanted the reset.

[GP100]

Thanks guys. I'm not really too worried about it. Pass or fail I enjoy the wokout and plan on sticking with it for awhile.

[aamirnshah]

Hello,

I just finished my 'test day' of my first cycle. 12 reps can be brutal.

Questions:

1) I started failing on military press very early into my first cycle. I went 8/8, 9/7, 10/6, 11/6, 8/6.
I believe a lot of this decrease in weight is due to my fatigue from bench press/squats. Im just curious. Is it 'okay' to add more rest if needed. I would probably hit my reps a lot better if I rested for say 3 minutes on bench press and military press. Also, should I stick with the same weight or decrease it given how bad I did this cycle.

2) For bench press, I went 8/8, 9/9, 10/10, 11/11, 12/8
What gives? In this instance, I felt super fatigued from 24 reps of squats. Did I need more rest? Its sort of a bummer that I need to reset my bench weight..

[viccles007]

Uggh I'm getting someone to show me bent over rows tomorrow, for the life of me I can't get them right

[Chrizzly247]

Am I the only one who is having a hard time on the medium days too?

Today was my c1w4 medium day and for squats, I went from 135 to to 120 and it seemed to be almost as hard as my heavy day. Was it maybe because my legs were still sore from monday?

Also, is parallel fine for squats and not touching but close for bench ok? I have bad knees from running xc and marathons (with not the best form) and bad shoulders from snowboarding (landed a little short on a 65 ft jump and dislocated my shoulder)

[viccles007]

Question - is there any possibility this program can be done on consecutive days?

[BambooBesar]

Hey Guys,

I've been away for a while - I've had to travel a lot for work and (having figured out my 10RM and being amped to start my C1W1 a few weeks ago) have just been going to the gym whenever possible doing the AllPro cycle with my 10RMs.

I'm now back on a semi-regular schedule and have some questions for you AllPros:

1) Given that I've gained on/off experience with the program over the past 2-3 weeks, should I still start with Week 1/C1?

2) I often feel unfulfilled with the program doing 8 reps at my 10RM...Sure I'm drenched in sweat at the end, but I rarely feel like I got to go "all out."

I want to stick with a program so that I can see results and track progress, but sometimes I just feel like going beast mode in the gym so that I get a workout "high" and that fantastic feeling of exhaustion :-)

Thoughts? Input? Advice? Is this still the program for me, or would I be better suited with an intense "12-weeks to...." program?

Much appreciated!

[Chrizzly247]

Hey Guys,

I've been away for a while - I've had to travel a lot for work and (having figured out my 10RM and being amped to start my C1W1 a few weeks ago) have just been going to the gym whenever possible doing the AllPro cycle with my 10RMs.

I'm now back on a semi-regular schedule and have some questions for you AllPros:

1) Given that I've gained on/off experience with the program over the past 2-3 weeks, should I still start with Week 1/C1?

2) I often feel unfulfilled with the program doing 8 reps at my 10RM...Sure I'm drenched in sweat at the end, but I rarely feel like I got to go "all out."

I want to stick with a program so that I can see results and track progress, but sometimes I just feel like going beast mode in the gym so that I get a workout "high" and that fantastic feeling of exhaustion :-)

Thoughts? Input? Advice? Is this still the program for me, or would I be better suited with an intense "12-weeks to...." program?

Much appreciated!

Idk if this is frowned upon or not but I found my 8 RM and started there. The beginning sucked but its gotten easier kinda.

You could also go back and test to see if you can do where you left off. If you cant then it would probably be best to start over again.

Also if you want a "workout high", try running. I used to get it all the time. Its better than a workout high because you feel like your body is floating or like you arent moving but you are moving the ground under you. Its weird but awesome.

[Cranz]

Question - is there any possibility this program can be done on consecutive days?

No.

[viccles007]

No.

Didn't think so, but struggling to fit my schedule around doing 3 non consecutive days a week

[robrobrobrob]

I'm having to move my days around for this routine due to awkward work times, Would this be ok?
sunday (heavy)
Wednesday (medium)
friday (light)

Is two days between heavy and medium too long?

Also I hurt my back doing SLDL because I can't get the weight down to the floor and keep my legs straight it ended up turning into a kinda romanian DL with quite a bit of leg movement. So I'm cutting the SLDL's out of my routine, Is this going to **** me over badly? I don't really care about my hamstrings, and I assumed my lower back would get worked out during squats.

[Mainer215]

I'm having to move my days around for this routine due to awkward work times, Would this be ok?
sunday (heavy)
Wednesday (medium)
friday (light)

Is two days between heavy and medium too long?

Also I hurt my back doing SLDL because I can't get the weight down to the floor and keep my legs straight it ended up turning into a kinda romanian DL with quite a bit of leg movement. So I'm cutting the SLDL's out of my routine, Is this going to **** me over badly? I don't really care about my hamstrings, and I assumed my lower back would get worked out during squats.

You may not care about your hamstrings but you can be creating a strength imbalance between your quads and your hammies which could cause leg problems in the future. You really need to try to balance out your leg development.

You can do 2 days between heavy and medium if you like. Just getting back on schedule for 2 days between light and heavy may be difficult.

[Mainer215]

Hey Guys,

I've been away for a while - I've had to travel a lot for work and (having figured out my 10RM and being amped to start my C1W1 a few weeks ago) have just been going to the gym whenever possible doing the AllPro cycle with my 10RMs.

I'm now back on a semi-regular schedule and have some questions for you AllPros:

1) Given that I've gained on/off experience with the program over the past 2-3 weeks, should I still start with Week 1/C1?

2) I often feel unfulfilled with the program doing 8 reps at my 10RM...Sure I'm drenched in sweat at the end, but I rarely feel like I got to go "all out."

I want to stick with a program so that I can see results and track progress, but sometimes I just feel like going beast mode in the gym so that I get a workout "high" and that fantastic feeling of exhaustion :-)

Thoughts? Input? Advice? Is this still the program for me, or would I be better suited with an intense "12-weeks to...." program?

Much appreciated!

If you have been doing cycle 1, week 3 heavy workouts off and on for the past couple of weeks then I do not see any reason why you cannot start on week 3 and proceed from there. The first cycle is the only one you can do this on though.

Good luck.

[Mainer215]

Hello,

I just finished my 'test day' of my first cycle. 12 reps can be brutal.

Questions:

1) I started failing on military press very early into my first cycle. I went 8/8, 9/7, 10/6, 11/6, 8/6.
I believe a lot of this decrease in weight is due to my fatigue from bench press/squats. Im just curious. Is it 'okay' to add more rest if needed. I would probably hit my reps a lot better if I rested for say 3 minutes on bench press and military press. Also, should I stick with the same weight or decrease it given how bad I did this cycle.

2) For bench press, I went 8/8, 9/9, 10/10, 11/11, 12/8
What gives? In this instance, I felt super fatigued from 24 reps of squats. Did I need more rest? Its sort of a bummer that I need to reset my bench weight..

I would keep your bench the same since you hit 12 reps on your first set so your strength is there but not your endurance.

For the military press I would decrease the weight by 5-10% and start fresh. It is always good to get a couple of passed cycles under your belt before you get failures.

As for wait times you can wait a little longer between exercises but your wait times between sets should be no longer the 90 seconds.

Hope this helps.