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Thread: Is it just maths????
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01-27-2013, 02:04 PM #91
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01-27-2013, 02:06 PM #92
Not to nitpick here, especially since I agree with your view. Glycerol and protein are used as the substrates for hepatic gluconeogenesis, once they are converted to glucose, glycolysis can occur...
I hope this thread really opens people's eyes to the problem of oversimplified thermodynamics (calories in/out) and how it is actually contributing to the obesity emidemic. The answer is a wider understanding of lipogenesis, lipolysis, and lipostasis, and the adaptive nature of each.....I'll take arrogance and the inevitable hubris over self-doubt and lack of confidence, anyday.......
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01-27-2013, 02:07 PM #93
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01-27-2013, 02:16 PM #94
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01-27-2013, 02:21 PM #95
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01-27-2013, 02:22 PM #96
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01-27-2013, 02:22 PM #97
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01-27-2013, 02:25 PM #98
You're arguing the wrong point. If two cities are 999 miles apart and two other cities are 1001 miles apart are the same distance apart? No they aren't. Does it matter? Under most circumstances, no, not really. 1000 is a reasonably good estimate.
The problem gets more complicated when you get into differentiating between instantaneous (day to day) changes in dietary composition versus chronic or long term eating habits because of feedback mechanisms. Within the realm of holding the mechanisms constant they have done a pretty good job of normalizing thermodynamic calories in foods by the now used term "food calorie," which accounts for variations in uptake and all that, other things being constant, but if you do something to significantly affect that system then things change. On top of the complication of feedback mechanisms are the time constants within each one of those mechanisms. Some things change quickly in response to diet, some slowly. I would have to def to HoustonTXMuscle on this one as he is much closer to this than I am. I'm over 20 years removed from my biochem/cell/A&P days.
For the average person eating an even somewhat reasonably balanced diet, dirty or otherwise, it isn't going to make a huge difference what the source of calories are. I have no doubt you can bias the situation in your favor by selecting one over another, at least for a while, but I am confident enough to consider this a second order effect. I've been in this game a long time, and I have lost weight on nothing but vending machine crackers and "diet" bread, and I have lost weight on a well balanced diet. The unifying theme in all of those was caloric deficit, and the rate of loss was primarily a function of the magnitude of the deficit and my body weight, not of the composition of the foods I was eating.
I'm tired of hearing 75% of the overweight people I speak to claiming to be 0.1% outliers in the metabolic distribution. The practical solution is caloric deficit. The academic solution is somewhat immaterial and it isn't a point solution, rather a distribution. In the end YOU HAVE TO OBEY THE LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS. Your mean maintenance level might differ from someone of the same weight and body composition and you may have a somewhat different uptake efficiency but in the end you can't create energy from nothing.2 + 2 = 5 (for extremely large values of 2)
Try SCE to AUX
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01-27-2013, 02:26 PM #99
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01-27-2013, 02:31 PM #100
Although I disagree with you on a lot of things, at least you can hold an intelligent discussion....and actually try to make valid points. Here is his exact statement below....This is the kind of intelligence we are dealing with here.....
Charles,
When speaking of nutrition or any science, you ALWAYS speak in generalizations. And with them, there are always outliers....100% true. But if we get stuck in talking about all the exceptions, then there really is no conversation.....in fact, if science did not rule out conditions depending upon scarcity, there would be nothing that was ever conclusive to any degree.RAW lifts
635 Dead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mATRBZ0gwdg
585x7 Dead reps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yf2ZkdNNNQ
420 Bench (paused) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2_Q-TLIB8
535 Squat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdgVaiTi4-8&feature=youtu.be
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01-27-2013, 02:31 PM #101
No I'm saying either calories are the only part that matters or they are not. If they are not then you have to concede that WHAT YOU EAT, MATTERS AS WELL AS HOW MUCH YOU EAT. You guys keep saying it doesn't make much of a difference to the average person, but you've provided no evidence to support your claim.
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01-27-2013, 02:37 PM #102
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01-27-2013, 02:40 PM #103
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01-27-2013, 02:49 PM #104
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01-27-2013, 04:14 PM #105
It's good to see captain pompous is chimming in. ID we all now to you and your ultimate intelligance. Get off you ****ing high horse. I liked you better when you had some humility and actually tried to be helpfull even if it was ultra long winded. I think all you self promoting and pic/vid posting to please your band of nut huggers and all the elbow jobs you get got to your head. Come back to reality king of the interwebz.
Oh and ill admit my tinfoil helmet if you'll admit you AA use!
AZ I want to congradulate you. Your probably one of the most educated here on the subjects yet you've allowed yourself to completly get lost spun around and sound like your lost.
Thank you guys this was one of the most entertaining train wrecks I've seen in awhile.
Btw going after IW is always a bad idea here man!Excuses are like A-holes everyone's got 1...............
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01-27-2013, 04:47 PM #106
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01-27-2013, 04:48 PM #107
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01-27-2013, 05:11 PM #108
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01-27-2013, 05:32 PM #109
No prob man.... I can see how you think I might be coming off that way, but if you look at the thread that precipitated this, you will see the real story.
I do lose patience after a while when the same people over and over do the same BS. It does get tiring.
After a while I dont care and I will tell them how I really feel.
Unbecoming....sure.... But true...yes.
If you look back at the history of my disagreements, you will see it is the same group of characters. And the part that makes it the worst, is they are not even respectable in the least from a lifting standpoint. They are 'average' at best and like to bust my balls.
It really would be better if this were the 'real world'. I doubt any man would talk to another with the antagonistic attitude that proceeds most of these exchanges. It would likely lead to this issue being settled in a different manner.
I have gotten to let most stuff slide off my back, but sitting around for the past two days with an ice pack on my nutz has me in, shall we say, a more feisty mood.
No worries, all in all, I am here to exchange ideas and listen to people with good information as well as share some.
Have a good night man.RAW lifts
635 Dead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mATRBZ0gwdg
585x7 Dead reps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yf2ZkdNNNQ
420 Bench (paused) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2_Q-TLIB8
535 Squat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdgVaiTi4-8&feature=youtu.be
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01-27-2013, 05:41 PM #110
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01-27-2013, 05:52 PM #111
And I agree with this. When the same person feels the need to challenge people's real life experiences with unsolicited broscience and cherry-picked internet quotes and call them liars, it gets old quick.
When one person has a problem with another, it can often be attributed to misunderstandings. But when many people have issues with the same person, you start seeing a pattern, and you realize that that's just how that person is. Not much one can do about it, really.★DSC★
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01-27-2013, 06:03 PM #112
Charles,
I can actually agree with most of what you say in the above. People often confuse the willingness to debate, with the desire to 'argue'.
What is the most telling for me, is when people do not want to talk about the actual topic at hand and instead will bring in personal insults or accusations of supposed 'use' (which has nothing remotely to do with the topic being discussed). This tells me not only about their lack of knowledge on what they speak, but complete lack of character.
Like I said, I highly doubt most men would handle themselves in this manner in the real world face to face.RAW lifts
635 Dead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mATRBZ0gwdg
585x7 Dead reps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yf2ZkdNNNQ
420 Bench (paused) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2_Q-TLIB8
535 Squat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdgVaiTi4-8&feature=youtu.be
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01-27-2013, 06:12 PM #113
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01-27-2013, 07:06 PM #114
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01-27-2013, 07:13 PM #115
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01-27-2013, 07:18 PM #116
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01-27-2013, 07:42 PM #117
Magic TEF fail.
http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v.../1602564a.html
Magic TEF fail #2
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/25/4/652.full
Variances in food labels, the actual fat content of your meat, the efficacy of your measuring cup, or food scale, the deviations in a DEXA scan would account for variation very similar to TEF effect in many short duration studies.
TEF may have an effect on extreme high protein diets. Absolutely. Unquestionably a may. Chase that vs chasing calories is absurd, unnecessary, over complicating a simple calculation. It's chasing a may, fractional return.The most important aspect of weight training; whether for the athlete, bodybuilder, or average person is to better ones health and ability without injury. - Bill Pearl
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01-27-2013, 07:44 PM #118
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01-27-2013, 07:47 PM #119
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01-27-2013, 07:49 PM #120
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